Hi. I lost a testicle 7 years ago (causing a low testosterone level) and only months later I began growing pointy breast-like projections. These breasts are now about a handful each. A few years back, one doctor said they were just fat. This year, a different doctor determined it was gynecomastia.

Is it possible to know the difference between small male breasts which are made of fat, versus true gynecomastic ones, just by appearance alone? The first doctor shrugged them off at just a glance, while the second doctor knew it was gynecomastia only by feeling glandular breast tissue in there.

I'm a bit heavy (225 lbs) and I have somewhat of a fat gut. How much do you feel my weight is contributing to my breast development? What size "breasts" might a male of my weight without gynecomastia be expected to have?

Allow me to describe my breasts. Do these sound like "fat" or "boobs" to you...?

Looking down upon my chest, my nipples seem to be pointing away from "forward" at 35 degree angles. In the mirror, they seem to be pointing forward.

When viewed from the side (standing with my back slightly toward the mirror) my breasts always stick out, at about 1.5 inches when the ruler is gently placed against the skin right below the breast. I can really notice this when I walk past a shop window and see my reflection.

They are sometimes more rounded, and sometimes more droopy and pointed. The difference between these "extremes" is not a lot. From the front, they just look like small, fatty, hairy, rounded-underneath male breasts. Sometimes my nipples will swell and combine with the area around them (independently) and a splash of cold water is all it takes to get them back to normal.

I am planning to have the breast tissue removed this winter. The surgeon will not remove any fat. What do you suppose the end result might be?

If anyone has any thoughts on this subject, or lives with (or has lived with) male breasts, I would love to hear your opinions. Thank you.

Gynecomastia is large male breasts of glanduar nature.
It is usually caused by too many female hormones & not enough male hormones. Many things can cause this unbalance. Losing a testicle is one of those.

I would suggest that you get the breast growth stopped before any surgery. A plastic surgeon will remove most of the glands & fat. Some gland tissue will always remain & some fat has to remain to give a smooth appearance.

Since some of the gland can not be removed they may grow back if the underlying cause has not been corrected.

My gynecomastia started in puberty. The female hormones kicked in before the male ones. I now, years later, use a testosterone gel to try to keep things in balance. I have other conditions than you also.
I am a 42C & have no plans for surgery.

Go to a doctor of endocrinolgy & try to get the hormones balanced for your body.

Good luck,

G

Yes fat guys have bigger breasts. Lose some weight & they will get a bit smaller. I noticed in one of your other posts that this is a lifelong problem with one testicle.

I would suggest that you also get tested for Klinefelters. You have many of the same conditions that are indicated in Klinefelters. It may be in the chromosomes like mine. Do some research on Klinefelters.

Good luck,

G

Thanks for your reply!

I did a little reading about the Klinefelters that you have - that does not seem like my problem. I'm sorry that you have it. You seem very brave on these boards like it does not bother you. When I'm in public, almost all I can think of is "people can see me" even though my teats are small enough to be dismissed as gross fat.

My breasts are most likely just due to low testosterone. They weren't a "life long" problem. This began in 1997 when I was 23. I kind of knew they were breasts, but was eating a lot and often at the time and sort of convinced myself I was getting fat. I don't know WHY I didn't go back to the doctor!

Now in 2003, I know they are breasts. I still am not sure HOW MUCH is fat and how much is breast tissue, thus this thread.

I have begun testosterone replacement therapy recently. So far, I've only had four injections. One of the possibile side effects of these shots IS gynecomastia. Should I wait to see if my breasts get LARGER before cutting out the entire works, or just go ahead an get these puppies removed and hope for the best? I imagine one glandular material is removed new stuff cannot grow to replace it, can it? Isn't there a finite amount of this stuff in my body? If my TRT is about to further my gynecomastia, how long does this usually take to become apparent?

The reason I am going to get this surgery done in the winter is simple. I will be wearing my coat at work all the time, and no one will see my chest. By the time spring rolls around, people will think I have just lost weight. Only the two people I have confided in will know the truth.

When you press down hard on the nipple do you feel a hard lump? That would also be an indicator of gyno.

If you start TRT periodically check estradiol as T can increase that too which can cause or further increase gyno.

Nothing specific relating to just the nipple. When I squeeze the breast or push inward hard and feel around, I can feel little lumps and things that feel like slightly cooked pasta. These weird, stringy, squiggly masses I can find no where else on my body.

One of the side effects of T-injections is the high level at time of injection sometimes gets converted to female hormones & causes the breast growth. I use the Gel daily & it gives a more even hormone level, but it is many times more expensive.

If you will notice in the malls & on the beach there are more guys with large breasts not hiding them anymore. We are now just wearing plain clothes & sometimes in the summer we just wear T-shirts.

We, of the "C" & larger still observe the "if women can be topless here" we do not go topless. I go to the topless & nude beachs. People there are less into the "stare & point" mode.

There is a double standard for men & women. A woman can have muscles or wide shoulders or a slight mustache or have small breasts & it is acceptable, but if a man has even small breasts showing he is judged to be weird.

It is slowly changing as more males quit hiding. Most males will have some gynecomastia at some time in their lives, some of us just have it from puberty.

Good luck,

G

I was really hoping to get the gel. I wanted to apply it privately. I wanted a constant level of it. I wanted the daily high/low cycle of T like normal men have.

Then the doctor showed me the cost: Around TWENTY TIMES the cost of injections. I can't afford that! Shots will have to do.

I have had four weekly injections. My next two will be two weeks apart. Then I will be at the T level the doctor wants and he will give me a shot once a month. Perhaps I can ask him to reduce the dose and do it every two weeks on a permanent basis? I don't want spikes of T which might cause problems, nor do I want the high/low roller-coaster ride of feelings TRT patients seem to have.

I haven't really noticed anything in particular due to T yet. I've had a good BJ dream once, and another time I shot one of the best loads I have in years. I've also been feeling a bit hornier lately, but that might be all in my head. All I've been doing lately is thinking about and looking at genitals and discussing them here. It's bound to work me up!

Oh yes, and on going topless:

I have wanted to go to a water park for years! I just cannot be seen without a shirt on. I've lifted up my shirt at work and have showed a few people my chest, and the repulsed look they gave me was awful. You'd think I was disfigured or something.

A couple of the girls suggested we should go shopping for bras sometime. That hurt.

To Darkfur:
I just read your posts and I have the biggest lump in my throat. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif I guess that's not supposed to happen to us guys!
I can't even imagine the anguish you've experienced in your life. I know you're not looking for sympathy, and hopefully people out here in cyberspace in similar circumstances can offer you support.
I'm not in your situation, but if you really feel you need to look what is so-called "normal", having the prosthetic is the right decision. I'm sure you've researched it thoroughly.
I know people always say our body is just a shell and what's important is what's inside our soul.
I agree with that, but being able to physically change something we see as an imperfection can sometimes have the most profound affect on our psyche.
good luck in whatever you decide to do http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

Large male breasts are not always caused by Klienfelters, but sometimes it is the reason when combined with several other indicators.

For those that never heard Klinfelter Syndrome, it occurs in about 1 in 500 males.

I am 47XXY.

S-ca.......(sex-chromosome abnormality)
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)

WHAT IS S-CA?

It is a genetic disorder, which occurs at conception. It is only found in males and the chromosomes in the sex line has at least one extra "X". To date, it is unknown whether the extra X comes from the father or the mother or from both parents. In the medical community, it is more commonly known as 47,xxy,
but there are many variants to this genetic structure, such as XXXY, XXXXY, XXYY, XX/XXY, XY/XXXY, XX/XXY, XY/XXY, XXY/XXXXY, XxY/Xx/XY, XXXYY, XXY/XX, XXY/XY, XXY/XYY, XXY/XXXY, XXX/XXXY, XXXXY/XXXXXY/XXX, XX(Y), XXXXYY/XXXXY/XXX, XO/XY/XXY, YO/XY,XXY, XO/XX/XY/XXY/XXXY, XY/XXY/XXxY, XY/XXY/XXXY, XX/XxY, XX/XY/XXY
WHAT ARE THE MOST COMMON SYMPTOMS?

Gynecomastia, an abnormal enlargement of one or both breasts in men;
hard tiny testicles that never grow,
infertility, low sperm count, no sperm,
incomplete masculine body build,
height, (6 ft. or more), may not be particularly athletic or co-ordinated.
The penis is usually of average length.
There may be a decreased growth of facial and other body hair and the male will have long legs, longer than normal arms and can exhibit poor social skills and poor social adaptation.

ARE THERE OTHER POSSIBLE SYMPTOMS?

Increased risk for speech and language problems
Preference for quiet games
Introversion
Frequently shy
Hand tremors
Frustration based outbursts
Difficulties in concentrating
Restless sleep patterns
Lower level of activity
Difficult to awaken in the mornings
Lower degree of self esteem
A form of dyslexia
To some degree, enuchoidal stature,,,,arm span is usually 2 inches longer than height.

Without HRT, a better opportunity to develop cardio-vascular arteriosclerosis (hardening of the arteries)

The inability to maintain long term friends
Attention Deficit Disorder (to some degree)
Rounded shoulders and rounded hips
Life-long soft skin

I have some of these indicators. You do not have to have all of them to be affected. Mine seems to be mostly in the upper body. Upper body has female indicators, lower body is male.

There is a group on yahoo devoted to this subject.

G

Gine2D:

Here are the Klienfelters "symptoms" that may apply to me WITH reasons why they probably do not.

gynecomastia (due to low T)
infertility (due to improperly descended testicle)
decreased facial & body hair (somewhat low T with 2 testes)
poor social skills (just a coward)
introversion (coward again)
frequently shy (only with new people)
frustration based outbursts (low T)
lower level of activity (low T)
lower degree of self esteem (understandable considering my "package")

The MAIN reasons I don't think I have this is because my ball seems nearly normal size and isn't hard. Also, my breasts did not start to grow until my T level dropped from 3.75 ng/ml to 2.13 ng/ml after the loss of my testicle. Since 1997 it's risen to only 2.42 ng/ml.

I would like to TRY to go swimming somewhere like I am now. My breasts aren't TOO bad compared to yours. Not to be disrespectful - if YOU are able to go topless at a nude beach, I should be able to do it at a regular one. My cup size was estimated as an "A" by a bra-expert at work, namely a female! I thought I was a "B" before that. Phew!


JAYB:

Thanks for your support. Don't feel too bad about this. It's not "terrible" really. There were times earlier this evening when I was thinking that a girl might want to squeeze my chest (like I would hers) during intimate moments. Then I saw my reflection in the door of a convenience store and saw those blasted little things again. Nope! They've got to go...

I used to be REALLY ashamed of myself. All through the summer of 2000 I wore my jacket constantly, even on the hottest of days! I stopped doing that because I looked like a FREAK wearing it! It was better for me to just look fat instead.

After some time without a jacket, people got used to seeing me. Don't get me wrong: these are NOT huge, honking breasts. They are small, and I explain them away as fat when need be. I showed these to my friend (who knows what they are) and he seriously could not tell there was anything wrong with them. They just looked like fat to him. He said I was over-reacting.

My mother says they do look like breasts. My father hasn't seen them "bare" and he still wants me to get this reduction. If my chest was his, he'd get it done, he says.


EVERYONE:

I'm still not sure of the "fat/boob" ratio I have. These breasts are my fault to some degree - but to WHAT degree? The fact the doctor diagnosed gynecomastia and recommends surgery leaves me feeling somewhat justified that this isn't entirely my fault. But then again, I'm 225 lbs.

To those that have this problem worse than me, and live comfortably with it, I applaud you. It takes great courage to go against the preconcieved notion of "maleness" and be content with who you are. I wish I was that strong, but I can't shake the paranoid feeling that people are noticing me.

When I look down I see my round belly. I cannot see the sides of my belly because these triangular peaks are sticking out, obstructing the view. I have to hold a breast in to see the rest. Any fat guys out there like this?

If you haven't noticed yet... I type too much. Thanks for reading.

Try going to the mall or srore just wearing a button up shirt over a t-shirt & see if anyone evens notices tyhat you have breasts. They will not. If you hunch over to try to hide them they will notice that guy all bent over.

You are making mountains out of mole hills.

It is in the mind. There are millions of guys with "A" breasts walking around un-noticed every hour. Take a look & you will see them. They are there but you have to look for them. Now someone with "C" size in a t-shirt will be more noticable, but no one stares.

Your breasts do not control you, your mind does.
Your balls do not control you your mind doe3s.

Some research being done on full Klinefelter males use a needle to take active sperm from a testicle to fertilize an egg for the couples that want children.

Since I am Mosaic Klinefelter 47xxy, I produce a few active sperm & am able to have children the natural way.

Lose a few pounds & take control of your body, do not let it control you.

Good luck,

G

Originally posted by Gine2D:
You are making mountains out of mole hills.
You're probably right - in two ways!

The two-shirt idea doesn't sound bad. I always wear just one. Most of my shirts are XL or XXL and have some sort of pattern on them. It distracts a bit from seeing just three points: a round gut and two teats.

Do you normally wear a t-shirt and a button-up one? Should I get a t-shirt that fits comfortable on its own or one that sort of compresses the chest? Do specialty shops (like Big and Tall) sell shirts designed for this purpose? Cotton is too stretchy.

When I was a kid, I liked the idea of wearing only a button-up shirt, and not doing up the buttons. I saw men showing off their chest hair this way. If I try that, the shirt occasionally gets held open after wrapping itself around a breast. It's totally obvious! I've only done this inside the house. I envy the guys who can dress like this in public!

I do try to notice men with visible chests now. No one seems to be bothered by this - no one seems to hide it like I try to. (Then again, those that succeed in hiding themselves aren't noticed!) Older men seem to have it more, even the skinny ones. The only men I've seen with a chest similar to mine were obese. It seemed to match them well.

What sort of things happen to you (a "C" size man) due to your chest? Do girls laugh? Do guys tell you to get a bra? I imagine you as overweight. Did I read that somewhere? Why do I keep thinking of that big-chested guy from the "Fight Club" movie? (No offense meant by any of this.)

It's great that you are content with yourself. If my breasts were pleasurable to the touch (like yours?) I'd probably want to keep them. Do you think I should go ahead and get this surgery? If I wait to lose weight first, I'll miss out on the chance to get the operation during the winter. What do you think?

I've tried to lose weight. It's a lot easier to put it on than take it off! The T shots should help make this easier though.

Thanks.

I'm glad you are able to have kids despite the Klinfelter Syndrome. Is there a chance your kids may have the same condition?

I just wear lose t-shirt that is not tight around the chest. It looks like a tent since my breasts stick out more than my stomach. The stomach is almost flat. I am not fat.

I wear a 17 1/2 button up sport shirt, usually a verticle stripe one. My wife picks most of them. I like the button down collars.

No one ever has suggested I get a bra or made any comment since HS. When I start sagging I may get a bra if I have any discomfort.

The condition can be passed down from father to son. My father has gynecomastia, & both my sons have it.
It is considered normal in my family.

No one since high school has ever said anything about my large breasts. One guy in the HS locker room said something & tries a titty twist & I decked him. The next day at football practice I gave him a few harder than normal hits, that was the end of it.

The girls I dated never had a problem with the breasts, some played with them, some were upset that theirs were not larger than mine. I dated in HS & college. I had sex in HS & college. I always dated girls, not boys. I mention this because some people think than anyone that shows any feminine trait is homosexual, not true. Homosexuals are into bodybuilding, pro-football, pro-basketball, and also work as hair stylists. It is in the brain not the body. I have read that many of the homosexuals that have gynecomastia have surgery to have them removed, some keep them.

I sometimes in the summer just wear a t-shirt & shorts to the stores. No one seems to notice me much other than a quick glance. They may have some thoughts but do not say anything.

I never considered what other people think of me as important enought to be in hiding. I am me, This is the way I was born & if others do not like it that is their problem. I do not flaunt my bare breasts in public anymore that the women.

I go by the same rules as women live by for being bare chested. I consided myself as a male with female breasts & act accordingly.

Good luck,

G

I too have that "tent" appearance with my shirt if I suck in my gut. With the gut, things actually look better for me. I'm not ashamed of my belly at all. It may be unsightly to others, but not to me.

Great job on decking that guy back in high school! You still showered with the guys, didn't you? No one stared at all? I guess they would glance hard and try to remember what they saw.

That's how I studied the other guys' testicles when I had to shower with them: just a quick glance. More than that would be gay. I had to know how theirs were compared to me. It wasn't difficult to notice the larger penises - those who were proud of themselves were always the last to dry themselves off. Sigh.

Are you saying that because I want to have surgery to remove my breast growth I might be gay? Why is this "more common" among homosexuals? I don't like football or basketball or hair-styling, lol.

I don't see myself as a male with female breasts. I see myself as a male who lost a testicle, and allowed the resulting hormone imbalance to grow something that never should have been there. I am trying to restore my chest to its 1996 state. If this was entirely fat, I would be happy knowing that a diet was all that was needed to fix things.

I don't hide from the public because of my chest. I wear just a large shirt out there. I am aware of my chest most of the time, and do tend to "hunch" a bit sometimes, or fluff my shirt up so my peaks aren't sticking out quite so obviously.

Thanks again for your replies and support. There's still a long time before anything definite about this surgery comes around. I have a lot of time to think.

[This message has been edited by Darkfur (edited 09-07-2003).]

You don't have to settle for T shots. With a doctor's prescription who can get gel from a compounding pharmacy. That's what I do as I don't have drug coverage with my insurance.

Just go to google and type in compounding pharmacies and start emailing/calling. For a month's supply I pay $35. 75mg/gm. That is equivilent to androgel's 7.5gm I found prices vary widely from $30 to $125..still less than androgel which is what, about $160? I've been on it 4 days and already have had some spontaneous erections which hasn't happened in a very long time. Much hornier too.

I have some gyno too which started a few months ago before I finally found a doctor who'd prescribed T. I've been hypogonadic for 2 years, my primary care idiot would only give me viagra.

Gene, did you ever try nolvadex? (anti-estrogen med) I'm hoping that now that I'm on T the gyno will stop. We'll see.

I was not trying to indicate anything by saying that gays had surgery each year. About 20,000 males have the surgery each year. The vast majority are not gay. Several million men with gynecomastia do not have surgery. It is an individual thing. Surgery is not a cure all.

If you are looking for a diet that works, try "The Sugar Buster Diet". It is for life. It puts you on a diet that was normal before the 1950s, before fast food, before all of the refined sugar foods, before the subsitution of soda pop for water became the norms.

It is whole wheat & meat dishes.

Good luck,

G

How do you determine cup size?
I am almost 43 and have suffered with gynecomastia since before high school. It has been hell.
Last year I went to a plastic surgeon for a consultation and found out most insurances do not cover the cost of the surgery. The cost is about
$6-8,000 dollars! I buy and elastic tank top, its like a girdle from Internationl Male and this helps.

Hi Darkfur

About the T: I used to work in a gym & I've known alot of guys who have used steroids --- among them, T --- I used to give the T shots to my roomate. These were guys who had normal T levels before they ever started using the T. Most of them had weekly shots. I rarely saw anyone develop gyno --- sometimes someone had a little bit, but it was uncommon for someone to get anything noticable. (This doesn't mean that it is a rare side effect of steroid use, actually it's pretty common --- just that I didn't see much of it.)Anyway, I mention this because the ones who developed gyno were guys who had been abusing the T for years and years and years --- and who already had enough T in their systems naturally. I would think, consequently, that for someone who doesn't have enough natural T, the chance of developing gyno right away would be pretty low --- I'd think it would take years. So I don't think T is going to make your current condition any worse, IMHO. And as to your question about whether or not you should wait to see how your course of T pans out before surgery --- caution probably won't hurt, but I don't think that is going to be much of a factor.

Of course you should lose weight before your surgery --- that's the only way you are going to know how much is "you" and how much is your "condition." Besides, being in better shape will be healthier anyway, and it will most likely lead to a better surgical result all-around.

btw, I would think that T would be causing alot of changes in your body --- most of which I'm assuming you'd welcome. My friends were total horndogs on T, and obviously it lead to major changes in their bodies. Another good reason to start working out before your surgery! LOL. Just thought I'd weigh in on T since I had a bit of indirect experience with it.