serenityelf
10-02-2003, 12:12 PM
If you've had your ovaries removed, in my case because of ovarian cancer, do the symptoms of menopause follow the same path as natural menopause. I was put on HRT to stop the harsh onslaught of menopause (my doctor's words), but I had to go off the treatment 6 months ago. The symptoms are now raging and I'm wondering if they'll ever end because of the loss of my ovaries and how the progression will be. Please help - if you've had a surigical removal. Also, how long will this phase of our lives last? AND how will we feel afterward? My mother said all she had was hot flashes, no mood swings (I remember differently) and that she can't understand why I am having all these symptoms or why I got ovarian cancer -- it's not from her side. I feel so quilty now or weak because I'm having a ton of symptoms and for having had the darn cancer. I hate that; my family does not show weakness -- even during my cancer thing; I was chin up never discussed my feelings. I feel like I've let myself and my family down by my body's weakness. Can anyone relate? Thanks.
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Geneva1
10-05-2003, 05:21 PM
Serenityelf,
No one really knows why some of us get cancer, some do not, and no one can predict it. It's not always hereditary either! I'm sorry to hear that your family has a hard time showing "weakness". I strongly believe that we should express our feelings and pain. If you hold it all inside, you will explode somewhere. If you can't share it with your family, please talk to your friends, or use this board to vent your feelings. That's what it is here for, and we will listen to you!
I'm 44, and in perimenopause. Not surgical, mine is natural, so I can only tell you what I've read or heard. Maybe someone else will chime in, that is in surgical menopause, and can give you first hand advice. But what I have heard, is that they are the same, only forced menopause starts after surgery, that it can be years before your natural menopause would of occurred. The symptoms are the same. How old are you? I was on HRT too, but could not take it. There are so many alternatives you can try, but the trick is, finding what works for you. Talk to your Dr, have your hormone levels checked, spend time on this board reading what others are trying, don't give up! There are ways to deal with it. Think about what you have just come through! You have survived cancer! And you call that WEAK? Sounds just the opposite too me. That is a blessing in itself! BRAVO to you for staying "chin up" through this whole ordeal, but you should be discussing your feelings. It's unhealthy to hold it all inside. Why on earth should you feel like you have "let yourself and your family down"? Because you're human? I do know that feeling is normal though, and it WILL pass. My Mother had breast cancer (and survived it!), and at first she had that guilty feeling too. Just keep telling yourself...you were lucky to find out you had cancer before it got too far, you're still here to talk about it, and you have your whole life ahead of you now. Be proud of yourself, you were strong, and handled it with grace.
Geneva
No one really knows why some of us get cancer, some do not, and no one can predict it. It's not always hereditary either! I'm sorry to hear that your family has a hard time showing "weakness". I strongly believe that we should express our feelings and pain. If you hold it all inside, you will explode somewhere. If you can't share it with your family, please talk to your friends, or use this board to vent your feelings. That's what it is here for, and we will listen to you!
I'm 44, and in perimenopause. Not surgical, mine is natural, so I can only tell you what I've read or heard. Maybe someone else will chime in, that is in surgical menopause, and can give you first hand advice. But what I have heard, is that they are the same, only forced menopause starts after surgery, that it can be years before your natural menopause would of occurred. The symptoms are the same. How old are you? I was on HRT too, but could not take it. There are so many alternatives you can try, but the trick is, finding what works for you. Talk to your Dr, have your hormone levels checked, spend time on this board reading what others are trying, don't give up! There are ways to deal with it. Think about what you have just come through! You have survived cancer! And you call that WEAK? Sounds just the opposite too me. That is a blessing in itself! BRAVO to you for staying "chin up" through this whole ordeal, but you should be discussing your feelings. It's unhealthy to hold it all inside. Why on earth should you feel like you have "let yourself and your family down"? Because you're human? I do know that feeling is normal though, and it WILL pass. My Mother had breast cancer (and survived it!), and at first she had that guilty feeling too. Just keep telling yourself...you were lucky to find out you had cancer before it got too far, you're still here to talk about it, and you have your whole life ahead of you now. Be proud of yourself, you were strong, and handled it with grace.
Geneva
ssMarilyn
10-05-2003, 05:30 PM
Menopause, be it natural or surgical, is the same as someone coming off a drug addiction. Your body has to adapt itself to the abrupt absence of estrogen and all the other hormones that helped keep it running smoothly. Surely there is something the doc can give you to make it more tolerable?
Marilyn
Marilyn
serenityelf
10-05-2003, 05:35 PM
Thank you for your thoughful response; it helped a great deal. I had the cancer for 8 years until they found it at 38 and stayed on the HRT until about a year ago for 7 years. My doctor did not want me to quit it, he wanted me on it for life. My level for estrogen is nonexistent as they also removed in a radical procedure 20 - 30 of the surrounding tissue. He said I would never produce even the small amount that women produce who have not had the radical removal or the slightly larger amount that remains when you have a natural menopause, so he says it is not necessary to check my apparently nonexistent levels. He did suggest an herbal estrogen supplement and soy milk which has helped. I can handle the symptoms that's not really my question, I was just curious if because I will always have zero output of estrogen if the symptoms will ever end. Thank you again; it was good to talk.
Geneva1
10-05-2003, 05:56 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by serenityelf:
I can handle the symptoms that's not really my question, I was just curious if because I will always have zero output of estrogen if the symptoms will ever end.
Good question! My sister has had a full hysterectomy, takes no hormones, and currently has no symptoms. She was given hormone therapy for 5-6 years, stopped taking them, and is fine. She eats alot of foods that contain phytoestrogens, but who knows if that is enough? I would guess that your symptoms will end, just like anyone that has had a hyst, but that's just a guess! Just curious, why did you stop taking the hormones? And if you can handle the symptoms, you are indeed strong as heck! Sorry I haven't been much help!
Geneva
[This message has been edited by Geneva1 (edited 10-05-2003).]
I can handle the symptoms that's not really my question, I was just curious if because I will always have zero output of estrogen if the symptoms will ever end.
Good question! My sister has had a full hysterectomy, takes no hormones, and currently has no symptoms. She was given hormone therapy for 5-6 years, stopped taking them, and is fine. She eats alot of foods that contain phytoestrogens, but who knows if that is enough? I would guess that your symptoms will end, just like anyone that has had a hyst, but that's just a guess! Just curious, why did you stop taking the hormones? And if you can handle the symptoms, you are indeed strong as heck! Sorry I haven't been much help!
Geneva
[This message has been edited by Geneva1 (edited 10-05-2003).]
serenityelf
10-06-2003, 10:35 AM
Geneval: Actually you did help. Did you sister have a total hysterectomy with oophorectomyy or ovacectomy? Typically a total hysterectomy does not include the ovaries unless stated above; it is quite misleading. I went off the hormones because of the things I read about breast cancer and estrogen, and maybe it contributing to HB pressure and heart disease instead of helping. I thought I'd give some more time for some of the studies to take place. My mom got HBpressure (70 years) this year, and I didn't want that to happen to me because now, apparently, it runs in our family. Also, my breasts got much larger and tender on premarin, and I really disliked the feeling. They've, in only four months, gone back to their normal size.
Geneva1
10-06-2003, 11:06 AM
Well I dont know about that "oop & ova" ectomy, but my sister DID have her ovaries removed. She had all kinds of problems that led to her hyst. Organs twisted around each other, an ectopic pregnancy, you name it, she had it. She decided to stop the ERT for the same reasons you mentioned, plus our Mom's breast cancer.
Mom took Premarin for 35 years. After the cancer, they took them away from her. She started having horrible symptoms, and begged her Dr to give them back. He gave them too her only because of her age (73) and because she threathened him (grin) saying that quality of life was important to her! She also has back problems that cause her alot of pain, and wasn't prepared to deal with all these new symptoms. Mom still has her ovaries.
About high blood pressure, my Mom never had HBP until she had alot of back pain. The Dr's still havent figured out if her BP just suddenly went high, or if the pain (& anxiety from it) was raising it. Seemed a little suspicious that they both happened at the same time. But they eventually had to give her meds to keep it down.
Just curious, how do you know you had the cancer for 8 years before they found it, and how did was it diagnosed?
[This message has been edited by Geneva1 (edited 10-06-2003).]
Mom took Premarin for 35 years. After the cancer, they took them away from her. She started having horrible symptoms, and begged her Dr to give them back. He gave them too her only because of her age (73) and because she threathened him (grin) saying that quality of life was important to her! She also has back problems that cause her alot of pain, and wasn't prepared to deal with all these new symptoms. Mom still has her ovaries.
About high blood pressure, my Mom never had HBP until she had alot of back pain. The Dr's still havent figured out if her BP just suddenly went high, or if the pain (& anxiety from it) was raising it. Seemed a little suspicious that they both happened at the same time. But they eventually had to give her meds to keep it down.
Just curious, how do you know you had the cancer for 8 years before they found it, and how did was it diagnosed?
[This message has been edited by Geneva1 (edited 10-06-2003).]
serenityelf
10-06-2003, 03:54 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Geneva1:
Quote:
Just curious, how do you know you had the cancer for 8 years before they found it, and how did was it diagnosed?
The symptoms began 8 years before it was discovered. My now gyn/oncologyst said that when he checked the first ultra sound I had almost 8 years ago, he saw the tumour already there. The US was misread. At the time, I was told I had a floating ovary and that the ovary (right) could not be seen as it was hidden behind a kidney and the rest of my symptoms were in my head. I now have three doctors who see me in the same cancer clinic: Two of them say this tumor (as seen in the US) was always cancerous and one thinks, because I lived, it became cancerous only during the last year or so. They all agree I'd had it for many years and been repeatedly misdiagnosed. Ovarian cancer has a high mortality rate, especially the type I had, so they agree to disagree. I go with the first two because of the pain and symptoms. And finally, they never actually diagnosed it. I'd gotten tired after running to the doctors about the pain and other symptoms for so long and stopped going. One tumour burst and after an emergency operation, they told me they removed the another 21cm tumour. (It was a slow grower and this is also why they agreed (all 3) that I'd had it for many years.) It was the quickest weight loss of my life: 20 pounds from the surgery. At the time of the removal, because of my age, they (not my current doctors) said it could not be ovarian cancer ecause it had been obviously there for such a long time and I was still alive. After being home for 7 days, they called and told me it was ovarian cancer, This diagnosis came from the biopsy that they'd cultured. I was then referred to the cancer clinic and my great doctors who saved my life. Good questions.
Quote:
Just curious, how do you know you had the cancer for 8 years before they found it, and how did was it diagnosed?
The symptoms began 8 years before it was discovered. My now gyn/oncologyst said that when he checked the first ultra sound I had almost 8 years ago, he saw the tumour already there. The US was misread. At the time, I was told I had a floating ovary and that the ovary (right) could not be seen as it was hidden behind a kidney and the rest of my symptoms were in my head. I now have three doctors who see me in the same cancer clinic: Two of them say this tumor (as seen in the US) was always cancerous and one thinks, because I lived, it became cancerous only during the last year or so. They all agree I'd had it for many years and been repeatedly misdiagnosed. Ovarian cancer has a high mortality rate, especially the type I had, so they agree to disagree. I go with the first two because of the pain and symptoms. And finally, they never actually diagnosed it. I'd gotten tired after running to the doctors about the pain and other symptoms for so long and stopped going. One tumour burst and after an emergency operation, they told me they removed the another 21cm tumour. (It was a slow grower and this is also why they agreed (all 3) that I'd had it for many years.) It was the quickest weight loss of my life: 20 pounds from the surgery. At the time of the removal, because of my age, they (not my current doctors) said it could not be ovarian cancer ecause it had been obviously there for such a long time and I was still alive. After being home for 7 days, they called and told me it was ovarian cancer, This diagnosis came from the biopsy that they'd cultured. I was then referred to the cancer clinic and my great doctors who saved my life. Good questions.
Geneva1
10-07-2003, 07:31 AM
Serenityelf,
You are so lucky! You could of died during that 8 years! Geeezzzz! You mentioned that you had symptoms.
Is that why they did the first US? Were your pap smears normal? I guess the reason I am being so nosey <grin>, is that a friend of mine went thru something similar, except it was her uterus. She was only 26 when all of it started. She started having horrible cramps with her periods, passing black blood clots, and her stomach was bloated. They gave her pain pills, and sent her home. It was so bad sometimes, she couldn't go to work. The next year her pap smear came up abnormal. They did it again, still abnormal. Gave her a US, saw "something" but decided to wait and watch it, because it "didn't appear to be anything cancerous". (Like they know!) A year later, she went to the emergency room with pain. They had an Oncologist on duty, that didn't like what he heard, did a US, didn't like what he saw, put her straight in for exploratory surgery. She had a tumor in her uterus the size of a grapefruit!! Obviously, they performed an emergency hyst, sent the tumor to pathology, it came back positive for cancerous cells. I think Dr's these days are too busy (playing golf and buying their next Mercedes), and have too many patients, (trying to cover their malpractice insurance). I don't trust them anymore. What is happening to our medical industry? Is it the system forcing our Dr's to practice quanity instead of quality? Or, are the Dr's overworked? Greedy? It seems as if they have to continually get more patients, in order to keep up their big salary,
but whose fault is that? The Government or the Insurance companies?
Years ago, we could go to the Dr, trust what he tells us. These days, we have to educate ourselves and TELL THE DR what we think is wrong!
[This message has been edited by Geneva1 (edited 10-07-2003).]
You are so lucky! You could of died during that 8 years! Geeezzzz! You mentioned that you had symptoms.
Is that why they did the first US? Were your pap smears normal? I guess the reason I am being so nosey <grin>, is that a friend of mine went thru something similar, except it was her uterus. She was only 26 when all of it started. She started having horrible cramps with her periods, passing black blood clots, and her stomach was bloated. They gave her pain pills, and sent her home. It was so bad sometimes, she couldn't go to work. The next year her pap smear came up abnormal. They did it again, still abnormal. Gave her a US, saw "something" but decided to wait and watch it, because it "didn't appear to be anything cancerous". (Like they know!) A year later, she went to the emergency room with pain. They had an Oncologist on duty, that didn't like what he heard, did a US, didn't like what he saw, put her straight in for exploratory surgery. She had a tumor in her uterus the size of a grapefruit!! Obviously, they performed an emergency hyst, sent the tumor to pathology, it came back positive for cancerous cells. I think Dr's these days are too busy (playing golf and buying their next Mercedes), and have too many patients, (trying to cover their malpractice insurance). I don't trust them anymore. What is happening to our medical industry? Is it the system forcing our Dr's to practice quanity instead of quality? Or, are the Dr's overworked? Greedy? It seems as if they have to continually get more patients, in order to keep up their big salary,
but whose fault is that? The Government or the Insurance companies?
Years ago, we could go to the Dr, trust what he tells us. These days, we have to educate ourselves and TELL THE DR what we think is wrong!
[This message has been edited by Geneva1 (edited 10-07-2003).]
maddux417
10-07-2003, 08:26 AM
It's a which came first, the chicken or the egg question. They are both guilty and add to them the pharmacuetical companies. The flip side of Dr's. who ignore women and withhold needed care are the Dr's. who abuse your insurance and order every test and procedure just because they can. I had a gyno who did my pap six years ago and said I had some suspicious cells, so he did a biopsy on cervical plugs (OUCH!!! Did this in his office and man it hurt) When those results came back he told me he wanted to preform some procedure that involved cutting a big cone section out of my cervix because some blah blah percentage of women who had these cells went on to develop cancer. I told him I thought I would take those odds and wait for another six months and see what happened. I went home and changed my eating habits, ( I cut out all red meat) and in a year when I went for my next pap (Different Dr. thank you) the results were normal and have been every year since. Coincidence? Maybe, but he didn't get to make his beemer payment off my cervix that month anyway. I'm not ignorant enough to believe that I could never get cancer, my mother-in-law died of cervical cancer at a very young age, but I thought it was a huge leap in rationale to go from a few errant cells to a mutilating procedure instead of exploring some cell healing lifestyle changes.
serenityelf
10-07-2003, 12:14 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Geneva1:
[B]Serenityelf,
You are so lucky! You could of died during that 8 years! Geeezzzz! You mentioned that you had symptoms.
Is that why they did the first US? Were your pap smears normal?
Answer: My wonderful gyn/oncologyst calls me his "little miracle." My pap smears have always been normal. Unless OCancer progresses to your unterus, cervice, etc. it will not show up in a pap test that is why I was told it was the most "killing female" cancer as it goes unnoticed. They are supposed to find it in a pelvic exam or by the symtoms. With symptoms, they should order an US. My firsr US was misread 5 years before. That is why I believe in being in charge of my health care, second opinions, writing out your questions/symptoms and finally research before you go to see one of the "new age" doctors. By "new age," I mean the rushed, uncaring, give a pill doctors, money doctors that so many of them have become. I am a smallish woman and not heavy, but they did not find it either (it was 21 cm and other 6 cm - total weight about l8 pounds) in a pelvic exam. I read the same thing happened to Gilda Radner and hers killed her. I feel the same as you do about doctors. I think their clinics put quotas on them and they rush their patients through. Most of the time with women they blame it on our nerves and try to give pills. There needs to be a revolution in the practice of women's health and care.
[This message has been edited by serenityelf (edited 10-07-2003).]
[B]Serenityelf,
You are so lucky! You could of died during that 8 years! Geeezzzz! You mentioned that you had symptoms.
Is that why they did the first US? Were your pap smears normal?
Answer: My wonderful gyn/oncologyst calls me his "little miracle." My pap smears have always been normal. Unless OCancer progresses to your unterus, cervice, etc. it will not show up in a pap test that is why I was told it was the most "killing female" cancer as it goes unnoticed. They are supposed to find it in a pelvic exam or by the symtoms. With symptoms, they should order an US. My firsr US was misread 5 years before. That is why I believe in being in charge of my health care, second opinions, writing out your questions/symptoms and finally research before you go to see one of the "new age" doctors. By "new age," I mean the rushed, uncaring, give a pill doctors, money doctors that so many of them have become. I am a smallish woman and not heavy, but they did not find it either (it was 21 cm and other 6 cm - total weight about l8 pounds) in a pelvic exam. I read the same thing happened to Gilda Radner and hers killed her. I feel the same as you do about doctors. I think their clinics put quotas on them and they rush their patients through. Most of the time with women they blame it on our nerves and try to give pills. There needs to be a revolution in the practice of women's health and care.
[This message has been edited by serenityelf (edited 10-07-2003).]