My friend, who I attend college with, is a pathological liar.

Tyler (all fake names) is a 20 year old student at a reputable Canadian university. At first encounter, he comes off as being an extremely intelligent, charming, and eloquent person.

Ever since his arrival at university, he's always managed to keep his highschool life separate from his life in college. And we've always taken the stories he tells about his highschool days at face value. These stories usually revolve around crazy "Jackass" stunts that his friends and he used to do and his many juvenile arrests (mischief, assaults, assault with a weapon, attempted murder). His marks have declined compared to his high GPA in highschool. He never goes to classes. In his first year, he passed only 1 of his 5 courses.

His behaviour in college has always been violent and destructive. He has become an alcoholic. And when he's drinking, he goes from being charming to being extremely aggressive. However, humans are rarely the targets of his irrational anger; Walls, doors, windows, furnitures are usually the victims.

However this is only one part of him. Tyler is extremely eloquent and well read. A conversation with him and you'll realize just how much smarter he is than most everyone you've ever met. His arguments are well thought through and the endless knowledge he has is incredible. He is funny and can charm anyone he chooses. He is extremely likeable and sociable. However he does hold an arrogance suppassed by no one and an elevated sense of self importance. He knows he is smart and will often compare himself to men like Einstein and Hemingway.

In the past, his stories have always been relatively harmless. They seem like the types of stories that men make up to impress women and friends. Lately, his stories, however, have reached a new peak. While they still revolve around his highschool friends, they have taken on a dark spin.

He now claims that when he was 17, his friend Shane had been stabbed and died in a drug deal gone bad. An early version of this story had him only playing a minor part, but his new version of the story has him be the one that had negotiated the drug deal and Shane had taken his place to do the trade. And he had been the one that had cradled his dying friend in the back seat of the car as they drove to the hospital.

Then he tells another story of how he and 2 other friends had gone to the perpetrator's (the one that had knifed Shane) house in retribution. He claims to have left the guy paralyzed and within an inch of his life. But when asked to produce a name or an address by one of his therapist he couldn't. He claims that he never knew what the guy's name was.

Now he claims that his friend Paul and Chris were mugged this summer and the mugger had pulled out a gun. The mugger had shot Chris first in the arm, then Paul in the chest and was aiming for him when he somehow managed to tear the gun from the guy's hands. At this point in the story, Tyler claims some form of automatism where he became entirely unaware of his actions. And claims that when he woke up a day later in the hospital, he only knew what happened due to witnesses. Apparantly, he had shot the guy in the knee and in the face with the gun. (there is another version of this story where he claims that the mugger didn't die but that he had ruined his basketball career and it was all his fault) He was then charged with murder and later aquitted. Then to stop anyone from talking or checking into this story, he has come up with this cover: Paul's father is a supreme court judge and he had the case sealed as soon as it happened so it was never leaked to the media. And if we were to mention this story to anyone, we would receive 6 months in prison. To finish this story off, Tyler then said that Paul then died a month later from bronchitis which had infected the lung that had been grazed by the bullet. During a surgery to reinflate his collapsed lung, Paul had allegedly passed away.

Then Tyler claimed that he and his friend Chris who is apparently suicidal had both checked themselves into a mental hospital to deal with grief and the emotional damage of having shot someone to death. In this hospital, he claims that the two of them had injected vodka into their veins and went into a coma for a few days. The question is, why would a mental hospital let him go if they knew fully well that these boys had self destructive tendencies? The best answer I've been able to come up with is that they never went.

Our Dean of College, at hearing this incredible tale decided to check into the story. What he discovers is that no one by the name (Paul) Tyler gave him had died. And not only that, people who grew up in the same neighbourhood said they saw Paul alive just a week ago.

And what made me realize that Tyler has been lying is the fact that he claims his parents have been relatively oblivious to his lifestyle, oblivious to his friends deaths. As legal guardians especially in the case of Shane's death, his parents would have been called if the boys had gone to the hospital like he said they did. And yet, they apparently do not know. And again, I believe the reason this is so is because it never happened.

And everyday, Tyler drinks from the moment he wakes to the moment he sleeps. Everyday, he blames himself for the two deaths. He believes that he should have died in both circumstances. His self destructive behaviour is a slow form of suicide. The worst part is that he honestly believe these events happened. In fact many people still haven't realized that his stories are lies. He has himself convinced best out of anybody else. His continuation of self destructive behaviours is entirely based on events that never occured.

Anyone have any advice as to what I could do as a friend?


[This message has been edited by heavenhell (edited 01-23-2003).]

What a story. This is exactly the reason I am studying psychology! Your friend needs to see a psychiatrist. He may or may not be willing to go on his own. Since he lies about being admitted into a mental institution, he may very likely agree to go see someone. I'm positive that he believes EVERYTHING that he has told you and everyone else. There are several diseases that can cause a person to tell lies to this extent. Alcohol is certainly not helping, but since he feels responsible for killing people, he feels that alcohol helps ease the pain. Lies are increasin alcohol consumption, alcohol increasing lies. Have you talked to your friend about this? Someone at your school should be able to help him or get help for him. This does seem to be a form of slow suicide. I hope that you or someone else can convince him that help is needed soon. Try to get him to stop drinking so much. Encourage activities that will get his mind off of alcohol...participate in these things with him. Listen to his problems and encourage him to seek professional help. He will probably not think he needs help because he feels that he is telling him the truth. Maybe if he could get help with the alcohol problem, the other things can be helped in time. I wish him all the best and I hope this helps a little.

he needs a good psychologist first, not a psychiatrist. be careful with psychiatrists. besides, your friend doesnt have a disorder, likw downs syndrome or something genetic. hes just severely conflicted.

rather, instead of the psychologist, he needs to getadmitted to a hospital, or even better, he nshould work with a psyhologist whilein the hospital. You NEVER see a psychiatrist without a psychologist to guide you. my opinion

Hey tcb0609 and theJap thanks for your advice.
Like tcb0609, I'm also a psych major. My friend has already been in and out of rehab and jumping from therapists to therapists all his life. But the problem is that he doesn't believe he has a problem other than being an alcoholic. We've all tried to convince him that he needs more time off to get straigthened out but to no avail. From what I can tell, his therapists have been ineffective because they don't realize he's lying. (It took me a year and a half to even notice.) The few that figured it out, diagnosed him having Manchausen's Syndrome and psychopathy but he never stays long enough to get help. And I've tried to get him back into rehab but he doesn't think it'll help. He thinks he's a better person when he is drinking, he's more eloquent and friendlier (which sadly is true.)I think he has some form of anti-social personality disorder but unlike the textbook case sociopath, he's not cold, heartless, and remorseless.

I feel like I've hit a brick wall with trying to get him to do something about his problems....

Final question. Should be challenging his world views or accepting them when he's talking to me?

try asking him if hes angry, and why hes so angry. possibly some deeper rooted issues that is locked inside of him, and needs someone to break the ice

this issue is really a tough one. i see the stress u are going through with it and its nice to know that there are ppl like you out there to care so much about him after all of it. me too, i once had similar to what he is going through. i will try my best to tell u. i cant compare mine to as bad as his, but i was along the lines of nearing to where he is.

well, from expierience i myself was once a very bad liar, maybe not pathalogical but i would lie to extremeties. at the time it was because i really hated who i was and i didnt want to believe that i was the person i am...lol, i mean if u told me that to my face back then i would have never believed it. its only because i have overcome it that now i see what happened with me. i know it sounds crazy because its not like there is anything wrong with me physcially, but u see, i had invented this whole story about my life to several persons that i knew, the difference was that i didnt live this lie to everyone, it was only to several ppl that i knew. over 3 years i kept this story going, i even had a different name and life story, i even had made up evidence to at first i had lied about one main thing because i wanted to have ppl feel sorry for me, becasue i thought they would like me more, from one thing to another i kept forming lies that ended up into real huge situations, to a stage where it was just crazy! lol, but u know it was so obscure that in the end the person that i really started to think it was real, i wished it was real. the person that i was telling it all to, i loved so much as a freind. i think partly my problem was that once i began lieing i couldnt stop, in fear of embarrassment of being caught out, because i had made up such depthy stories and involvements that i couldnt turn back, i thought ppl would like me better if they thought thats how my life was. however, it took for me to lose someone i really loved for me to realise that it was not real. i had to get hurt from my own story in order to understand what i had been doing. i think your freind, really needs help. luckily i didnt need medication. i had depression so i did visit a pshuchologist but i found they did nothing for me. i had to find it in my heart to overcome what i was doing, its really hard to explain becasue now that im out of it, i find it really hard to tell u what it was like because i look at how i was then and then i look at now, and i cant even believe i made up such ridiculous things! but anyway the thing is that, u need to not support him in his beliefs. u need to confront him and tell him that u dont believe him when he starts telling u things, get upset and say "please dont do this, u cant have done that because....etc etc i know its not real,) becasue with me, when my freind started disputing my stories by telling me things to prove theyre not real it made me get mad with him, but eventually i in the end overcame it. please let me kno how u go.

I spent three years in a relationship that sounds like your friend.

He lied about:

His mother having cancer
A cottage that he inherited, which never existed
How he was attacked late one night in a park
How he was the 'jewel of the family'

My goodness, the list goes on and on...and gets worse and worse

The approach that I took for the longest time (of course with love in mind) was that I would focus on his good qualities. Hopefully to show him that that he was a fantastic enough person to just be himself.

I would begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel, then I would find out about something else. It was a vicious circle. He too, drinks far too much. He too, is charming and eloquent. He too, is highly intelligent. He just couldn't seem to grasp a sense of his own reality. Was an amazing artist - Monet and Picasso calibre!! But couldn't committ himself to move further with it. He has restless leg syndrome and doesn't realize he's doing it. He would ash his cigarette countless times and not be aware that he was getting ashes all over the table....

I'm not here to compare stories. I'm just here to tell you that I know how hurtful and frustrating it can be - especially when you see a beautiful human being underneath all of the lies.

To this day, I still feel like a failure for not being able to help. I ended up having to break his heart because he sent me down the same road far too many times.

This was a long time ago, and it still hurts me to think about him...

God bless you for trying to help him - I hope that you succeed, I really do...

All the best,

v

I knew someone, I'll call her "Notme". Anyway, Notme was kind of shy, and to get into conversations, she would listen for a while and then jump in. Well it turned out that whenever anyone had a cool or unique experience, Notme had one that was very similar, but more exciting. Sometimes friends would hear their own stories, with embellishment, retold with Notme in the main role. It got confusing sometimes, because Notme could get herself in strange predicaments like simultaneously being the World's Biggest Virgin, but also having had sex with like seven guys last Saturday at the SAE party. Anyway her friends managed not to hate her for ir and would altenatley challenge her truthfulness, or start spinning even more fantastic yarns themselves. After a while, Notme must have felt more comfortable with everyone, because I hardly ever make up those stories anymore. Unless this is one?
http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif

Notme, you're one of the lucky ones who realized that continuing to lie as such, would get you nowhere. Good for you - a step in the right direction.

Vio..~

I'm a layman when it comes to making a mental heath diagnosis but all of this just screama that your friend is just an attention junkie. It seems the more elaborate the story, the more attention he gets. One just feeds off of the other.

your freind sounds as if he has a personailty disorder. probably narcisssism. he needs a good psychologist. good luck, but first take care of yourself and remember HE is responsible for what happens to HIMSELF! do not get caught up in this vortex.

Be careful with this. Some people that may be delusional are so good at it that they can bring even a good Therapist or Psychologist into becoming part of their delusions. You see that there is a problem and you don't know what it is. A Specialist needs to figure this out, not you. Careful in what you say or do. It's true, maybe he only wants attention. Then again you have no idea and thats why you are asking for help. I know you are a good friend, but be careful.

Look some people may think that people who lie just want attention and for some may be true. But for other people it is all they know. When you are little every one tells a lie but they learn from it and learn that the truth is always the best way to go. But for those few that continue to lie it has become a way of life. Most of the time it is unintential. They feel that they have to lie for anyone to love them. Also it could be that they feel if they don't lie they will not be accepted for the mere person they really are because they don't accept there own lives with out lieing themselves. So my advice is to show those people that you care and that you are willing to help them. Try to teach them that it is not necessary to lie because you like them for the mere people they are and that it is okay to be themselves and people are going to love them anyway.

Your friend is under attatck by demonic spirits which is why none of you who have the medical back ground can figure this out. Your friend... even though he is concious, has no idea what he's saying even though it's coming out of his mouth, nor is he aware of his behavoir, probably most of the time at this point.

I am sure he has been affected by these different spirits since before he was 10 years old, since he is 20 now and doing what you described!!

I know this is against what you men/ woman learned in Psych school, but you will learn this to be true in the not too far future.

The help your friend needs can be found at a local Church or Synagogue's Intercessory Prayer Group a Deliverance Ministry Group, or a true Biblical Prophet or Apostle who will have an Annointing directly from God (who is also a spirit??). They will be able to help your friend.

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GAS

I am a pathological liar. I wish I could say that I have no idea why I do it... but I don't. When I was young my Mom was always lying to my dad about EVERYTHING to avoid getting "in trouble" with him. I'm assuming I saw this and learned from it. Now, atleast 10 years later I'm still lying. But this time it's for acceptance. Deep down I know I'm an incredible girl. I'm sooooo smart, witty, funny, and charismatic like these other people everyone is talking about, and people see her... she's just clouded with lies.
I've gone as far to say that my father was in the mafia... I'm italian... or atleast I think I am but I didn't want to explain my family situation to anyone and this just seemed so much easier. Yeah- I'm aware that the truth is so much easier to deal with and I think this is the first time I've ever been honest with myself in a while. Tonight I pretended I was drunk... which wasn't a complete lie. I was buzzing. But someone called me out on it and I started thinging. I was going to go to bed when I realized that I wanted to know the definition of a pathological liar and what can be done to help... as if I didn't know already. All I have to do is stop. So I stumbled upon this site and was baffled that the stories people are telling about liars that they know sound just like me. So i'm wondering... does anyone out there know a reformed liar, because as of this moment I'm making a commitment to stop. No more drinking, making up **** or anything until it stops. I look in the mirror and don't see the person that I know I am inside and it hurts. Sometimes I just want to sit everyone I know down and just say hey... this is the real me, but would they accept it? I don't know, I guess I wouldn't expect them too. It's so sad that I expect honestly from all of my friends but usually I'm not giving it to them. I really hope realizing what I'm doing to myself and others is the first step. Wish me luck.

I too am walking down a lonely road right now. Last night I was walking home from work and started to talk to myself it all came out and the ultimate conclusion was "ihavenoideaeither" you are a liar and you need to stand up and face up to it.
I don't know why I did it either, I had an exciting life. I was born in Virginia and then moved around the world with my parents who worked for the government. When I came to the states for college that was when the lies really started. I told people that I was born in Egypt, that my Dad was in the CIA, that I had seen all these ****ed up things, and it just kept building. Five years later my friends don't know me, they know this intity that I have created out of nowhere. Deep seeded lies that eat me up at night but must be carefully planned to compliment every other lie I have ever told. I am really good at lying, and I want to stop, how do I tell every person tht knows and loves me that I am not that person, how can they love me and care if that is not really me. I guess we'll find out, I feel better already telling "you" right now. HELP!!!!!

I just stumbled on this site as I was trying to reslove what to do in a relationship I just started. This guy has panic attacks - fine - but I also think he's a pathological liar. Our relationship started by him not informing me that he was in a relationship when we got involved - he claims, though, that he's out of it now. He also has missed important events we planned and then come up with elaborate stories as to why he couldn't make it. I spoke to his sister yesterday and she told me that he has been lying alot lately. He hasn't even told his sister or his family that we're dating - I wonder what he tells them. I feel so worthless around him and I wonder if he's cheating. I am a sucker for guys with problems - I think I can help them - but this is really bad, I could end up getting hurt big time. He's hurt me so much already and I've told him and he acts like he really feels sorry, but his actions don't show it. To top it all off, we will be working together - it can't even be a clean break. What should I do?

Cognitive/behavioral therapy all the way for this guy. He may have some delusional issues that need a lot of work. We wouldn't want it to develop into a psychotic disorder.