blacktango
09-09-2002, 12:46 PM
Hey :) I was just wondering if anyone had problems with sleeping/sleep patterns on a whole. My sleep pattern is insane, i go to bed at midnight-1am to try and get a good nights sleep but end up falling asleep around 5-6am then wake again at 2-4pm, and feel worse for it! Plus sleeping at the wrong hours of the day leaves me with very strong Unreality. Ive tried alot to get out of the sleeping habit, but it seems to get worse. I lack energy because of it which in turn makes my anxiety worse which in turn makes it harder to sleep at night.. it's a catch 22 situation and i'm not keen on taking sleeping pills or anything. any advice?
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Karima
09-09-2002, 01:30 PM
Hi,
I am passing along a suggestion just made to me over the weekend. That is to try melatonin which is a supplement you can purchase yourself. Many people use it and have had success with getting a good nights rest. I have a friend who uses it after flying to different time zones and has that 'jet lag' thing.
Hopefully this might help the both of us...best wishes.
I am passing along a suggestion just made to me over the weekend. That is to try melatonin which is a supplement you can purchase yourself. Many people use it and have had success with getting a good nights rest. I have a friend who uses it after flying to different time zones and has that 'jet lag' thing.
Hopefully this might help the both of us...best wishes.
blacktango
09-09-2002, 03:30 PM
Excellent, i'll have a look into it. Thank you :D
Aster
09-09-2002, 03:38 PM
Staying up late is obviously Not working for you. Therefore, my suggestion would be to try Melatonin also. I've tried a lot of brands. I recommend asking for the sublingual ones in peppermint; they're the best. And, bite it in half. Why? Because, for some weird reason, less of it is more. I noticed it then I read about it. Now, if That doesn't knock you cold, try Benedryl. Two of 'em. Take either of these an hour before you wish to konk out. Do not ever Mix Melatonin with a benzo; you'll regret it. I know: I'm the Resident Pill Freak. Remember: late hours do not work.
You've now entered the Realm of the Insomniac. Welcome to the club.
------------------
Aster
You've now entered the Realm of the Insomniac. Welcome to the club.
------------------
Aster
blacktango
09-09-2002, 04:51 PM
Hmm.. I just did a little research into melatonin, and i think i figured out why it's so effective, especially with anxiety/insomnia sufferers.
Alot of anxiety sufferers have low levels of serotonin (hormone thought to be associated with anxiety) so taking meds which bring that level back to normal will pretty much cure it, as well as having big effects on sleep patterns.. and general energy levels. Here's what i think happens..
Serotonin is produced during the daylight hours, which keeps us happy and alert and anxiety free when we're (normally) awake.
Melatonin is produced by the same gland as serotonin, but during the night. So when darkness falls, the brain sends signals for the gland to stop and change any serotonin into melatonin. Then the body rests as we sleep, and wake to daylight hours and the gland changes melatonin back into serotonin so we can go about our day again.. A person with normal levels of serotonin and melatonin will have no problems sleeping, and probably no problems with anxiety either.
But if for some reason we have a low level of, say, serotonin then when it gets dark and the glands go to work to make melatonin.. there wont be very much, if any, serotonin to turn into melatonin, and so it becomes hard to fall asleep. Then when we wake there will be a low level of melatonin so the gland cannot make serotonin either.. it gets into a cycle, and we suffer because of it.
My theory is when people start getting anxiety problems it's because of an inbalance in serotonin/melatonin levels, so anxiety leads to sleep problems, and sleep problems lead to more anxiety. This is probably why meds which normalise serotonin levels have such a big effect. If you normalise serotonin levels then it will have a knock on effect on melatonin levels, and bring them both back into balance. And vice versa with melatonin supplements.
Why the balance gets knocked out in the first place I don't know. Maybe a gland problem, or maybe the relationship between the two hormones is very sensitive and easily put out of synch.
In summary:
Low level serotonin + low level melatonin = anxiety + sleep problems
It's just a theory, I could be totally wrong, but it would make sense of alot of things. If you've made it this far through my ramble then let me know what you think :D
Alot of anxiety sufferers have low levels of serotonin (hormone thought to be associated with anxiety) so taking meds which bring that level back to normal will pretty much cure it, as well as having big effects on sleep patterns.. and general energy levels. Here's what i think happens..
Serotonin is produced during the daylight hours, which keeps us happy and alert and anxiety free when we're (normally) awake.
Melatonin is produced by the same gland as serotonin, but during the night. So when darkness falls, the brain sends signals for the gland to stop and change any serotonin into melatonin. Then the body rests as we sleep, and wake to daylight hours and the gland changes melatonin back into serotonin so we can go about our day again.. A person with normal levels of serotonin and melatonin will have no problems sleeping, and probably no problems with anxiety either.
But if for some reason we have a low level of, say, serotonin then when it gets dark and the glands go to work to make melatonin.. there wont be very much, if any, serotonin to turn into melatonin, and so it becomes hard to fall asleep. Then when we wake there will be a low level of melatonin so the gland cannot make serotonin either.. it gets into a cycle, and we suffer because of it.
My theory is when people start getting anxiety problems it's because of an inbalance in serotonin/melatonin levels, so anxiety leads to sleep problems, and sleep problems lead to more anxiety. This is probably why meds which normalise serotonin levels have such a big effect. If you normalise serotonin levels then it will have a knock on effect on melatonin levels, and bring them both back into balance. And vice versa with melatonin supplements.
Why the balance gets knocked out in the first place I don't know. Maybe a gland problem, or maybe the relationship between the two hormones is very sensitive and easily put out of synch.
In summary:
Low level serotonin + low level melatonin = anxiety + sleep problems
It's just a theory, I could be totally wrong, but it would make sense of alot of things. If you've made it this far through my ramble then let me know what you think :D
Karima
09-10-2002, 11:12 AM
Oh this makes alot of sense. Actually because most agoraphobics stay inside so much and don't get enough sun is another reason our serotonin levels get low. The sun is necessary to keep them at balance. That is why in the winter we feel so depressed and those new indoor sun lamps are so popular for treating people who get severely depressed.
It is also why many docs want us on the SSRI meds to increase our serotonin levels. However just speaking for myself, meds just cause me so many side effects even at child doses. I make it a point to get outside in the sun every morning and afternoon. For those who cannot get far from the house(me), walking around the yard or even sitting in the sun will work.
I heard a doctor on t.v. say that we should have absolutely no light on in our bedroom, even a nightlight, when sleeping. Getting up to go to the bathroom is a problem because we need some sort of light. But apparently when our brain recognizes light, it is a signal to wake up. It is interpreted as daytime and makes it a real challenge to get back to sleep once it has been alerted. He did mention using a colored lightbulb of the lowest wattage but I cannot remember the color.
It is a simple solution or certainly step in solving the sleep problem. Living in Florida does give me a chance at plenty of sunshine almost the year round and my sleep issues are not getting to sleep but staying asleep. If my neighbor coughs during the night, I will hear it. Okay maybe not, but I am a light sleeper. I understand that the supplement SAM-e works on increasing serotonin levels, has anyone tried this?
It is also why many docs want us on the SSRI meds to increase our serotonin levels. However just speaking for myself, meds just cause me so many side effects even at child doses. I make it a point to get outside in the sun every morning and afternoon. For those who cannot get far from the house(me), walking around the yard or even sitting in the sun will work.
I heard a doctor on t.v. say that we should have absolutely no light on in our bedroom, even a nightlight, when sleeping. Getting up to go to the bathroom is a problem because we need some sort of light. But apparently when our brain recognizes light, it is a signal to wake up. It is interpreted as daytime and makes it a real challenge to get back to sleep once it has been alerted. He did mention using a colored lightbulb of the lowest wattage but I cannot remember the color.
It is a simple solution or certainly step in solving the sleep problem. Living in Florida does give me a chance at plenty of sunshine almost the year round and my sleep issues are not getting to sleep but staying asleep. If my neighbor coughs during the night, I will hear it. Okay maybe not, but I am a light sleeper. I understand that the supplement SAM-e works on increasing serotonin levels, has anyone tried this?
blacktango
09-10-2002, 02:14 PM
Glad i wasn't rambling about nothing! :D It all just suddenly made sense and I had to share it.
I have the problem of falling asleep, once i'm asleep i'll stay asleep. My sleep pattern means i'm usually still awake when it starts to get light, so i have to really force myself to drop off. I'm a heavy sleeper so nothing can wake me once i'm asleep, except thunder for some reason, probably cause i like storms so much.
When i try to fall asleep i get stuck in that stage where you're not technically asleep but just in deep thought. I can't sleep in total darkness as I lose my bearings and panic, so i usually just have a small light on, like my lava lamp, which gives off purple light.
I keep being told that the colours i choose in my life is what's affecting my sleep and general self. I have a dark blue room, which is supposed to be depressing, but it doesnt depress me. I wear black most of the time, i guess you could call me a goth.. If i were to have a light room and wear light colours i'd feel very uncomfy, i wouldn't feel like myself anymore. I used to have a yellow bedroom, which is supposed to make you happy and intelligent, but all it did was give me a headache and make me unhappy. I never felt so happy when i painted it dark!
Also music, they say "oh no wonder you cant sleep you listen to that awful loud aggressive music! You should listen to some elevator music to help you sleep and some poppy music to make you happy!" They so don't know me http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif I have chilled out music and happy music, just not in the same style as they want. They see the stereotype of my 'style' and nothing more, assuming that if i like rock/alternative then i must be a suicidal drug abuser, and it's no wonder i have these problems..
I think it comes down to character and lifestyle, light colours and bland music just aren't my thing. I wish other people would see that, and stop judging me on my colour/music taste :mad:
I'll stop rambling now :p
I have the problem of falling asleep, once i'm asleep i'll stay asleep. My sleep pattern means i'm usually still awake when it starts to get light, so i have to really force myself to drop off. I'm a heavy sleeper so nothing can wake me once i'm asleep, except thunder for some reason, probably cause i like storms so much.
When i try to fall asleep i get stuck in that stage where you're not technically asleep but just in deep thought. I can't sleep in total darkness as I lose my bearings and panic, so i usually just have a small light on, like my lava lamp, which gives off purple light.
I keep being told that the colours i choose in my life is what's affecting my sleep and general self. I have a dark blue room, which is supposed to be depressing, but it doesnt depress me. I wear black most of the time, i guess you could call me a goth.. If i were to have a light room and wear light colours i'd feel very uncomfy, i wouldn't feel like myself anymore. I used to have a yellow bedroom, which is supposed to make you happy and intelligent, but all it did was give me a headache and make me unhappy. I never felt so happy when i painted it dark!
Also music, they say "oh no wonder you cant sleep you listen to that awful loud aggressive music! You should listen to some elevator music to help you sleep and some poppy music to make you happy!" They so don't know me http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif I have chilled out music and happy music, just not in the same style as they want. They see the stereotype of my 'style' and nothing more, assuming that if i like rock/alternative then i must be a suicidal drug abuser, and it's no wonder i have these problems..
I think it comes down to character and lifestyle, light colours and bland music just aren't my thing. I wish other people would see that, and stop judging me on my colour/music taste :mad:
I'll stop rambling now :p
Karima
09-10-2002, 04:33 PM
Well I am a shades of purple girl and find the spectrum of lavender down to violet just wonderfully relaxing and vibrant. My bedroom is primarily a range of those colors with paisleys of same. I am a product of the '60's and it shows up in this room. I also have to have a small nightlight, with a blue bulb for the same reasons as you. I get quickly disoriented in the dark, also having a housefull of cats doesn't help much in the dark.
But I did make a change in my music. I am still basically a rock and roll hold over(let's just pretend musically the 70's never existed) but I know better than to listen to the Rolling Stones at night. I have purchased several CD's by Enya and even some celtic folk songs, no singing though. That works well for me from say 6 p.m. and on but in the a.m. when I am dragging around from not sleeping, Mick and the boys help me to wake up with some Brown Sugar. I don't get anxious at all from it if anything if just makes me feel good, really picks me up.
But I did make a change in my music. I am still basically a rock and roll hold over(let's just pretend musically the 70's never existed) but I know better than to listen to the Rolling Stones at night. I have purchased several CD's by Enya and even some celtic folk songs, no singing though. That works well for me from say 6 p.m. and on but in the a.m. when I am dragging around from not sleeping, Mick and the boys help me to wake up with some Brown Sugar. I don't get anxious at all from it if anything if just makes me feel good, really picks me up.
blacktango
09-10-2002, 06:54 PM
Enya's great, her work with howard shore on the lord of the rings is just amazing. She has a calming effect, and somehow sparks the imagination too. She's high on my list of chilled music (the list is long) :)
Sounds of Nature is great for calming also, like whale calls and thunderstorms. I like anything that makes me feel like i'm still connected to nature and the world.
Also, sad songs calm me too. With most people they depress and upset, but a painfully beautiful song makes me at peace. Thought it makes me sad, i feel comfy in the sadness which somehow makes me happier.. weird huh :D
Sounds of Nature is great for calming also, like whale calls and thunderstorms. I like anything that makes me feel like i'm still connected to nature and the world.
Also, sad songs calm me too. With most people they depress and upset, but a painfully beautiful song makes me at peace. Thought it makes me sad, i feel comfy in the sadness which somehow makes me happier.. weird huh :D
blacktango
09-12-2002, 06:04 PM
I had my mum look for some melatonin today, but she couldn't find any, apparantly it's been banned in the UK. The same happened with kava root, which i was taking and was actually helping with my problems, then i ran out and couldnt buy anymore. Typical huh.