N2golf
02-23-2003, 09:13 PM
How do you parent a child who spends equal amount of time with each parent if the parents absolutely do not get along? I have tried...really tried but my ex is not willing to co parent with me which makes it so hard on the child and me! If I say black...the ex says white. I'm just waiting for the day that my ex GROWS up and realizes the effects that it has on our child! Meanwhile, what do I do? I am the disciplinary one and the ex lets the child do whatever and when ever. (we are talking about a 13 year old)So, I look like the bad person and then my child says that she will just go live at her other house full time. I will not give in to that behavior, so I say that I will help her pack if she feels that way because I know that she is trying to get her way by munipulation. Am I doing the right thing? Sticking to my rules...is that such a bad thing? I just don't let her call the shots...she's only 13!
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ffsmith
02-25-2003, 01:05 AM
I believe you are right to stick to your rules.
At least the child has limits and rules half the time.
I would NOT say that you are going to help the child pack, when she says that she is going to live at the other house full time.
It does not sound like this is what you want, and I am not sure you would actually do it.
It is also a form of manipulation to make comments like that and it is kind of immature.
Instead TRY (in know it is hard) to explain the facts.
You are the parent. You have custody for certain amount of time (50%).
It is the parent’s job to raise their children the best that they can.
Part of this includes setting limits on a child’s behavior.
Setting limits on their life.
Being a role model for the child.
Guiding the child into adulthood.
Being loving and supportive.
Like it or not you are parent and are RESPONSIBLE for raising the child.
This gives you the AUTHORITY to set the limits and make the decisions.
You can even explain that sometimes you will make the wrong decision and will learn from your mistakes.
BUT the child is going to have to behave and act decently and live under your authority for 50% of the time.
Hopefully she will understand a little bit.
I have an Uncle in the same situation. He never had too many problems with his daughter, but the son did a lot of the same stuff as your daughter. At about 13-14 he stopped coming over to the father’s house even though he was supposed to be there half the time.
He did not have to live with the father’s rules.
He did not have to do chores.
He could set his own limits with the mother, and could hang with friends and play video games and stuff like that at the mothers house.
It did change a little when he graduated from high school. Of course his grades were not that great (no one made him study at all). He did not like or feel the need to work too much. Besides the grades, the money was not there for college or even any kind of training. (He could have at least made some money with the chores. Plus he would have a better relationship with the father.)
It was then after high school that the mother changed a little and asked the father for some help motivating the kid. And the kid finally when to the father.
They both did grow up just a little. And it was too bad that it had to happen that way.
At least the child has limits and rules half the time.
I would NOT say that you are going to help the child pack, when she says that she is going to live at the other house full time.
It does not sound like this is what you want, and I am not sure you would actually do it.
It is also a form of manipulation to make comments like that and it is kind of immature.
Instead TRY (in know it is hard) to explain the facts.
You are the parent. You have custody for certain amount of time (50%).
It is the parent’s job to raise their children the best that they can.
Part of this includes setting limits on a child’s behavior.
Setting limits on their life.
Being a role model for the child.
Guiding the child into adulthood.
Being loving and supportive.
Like it or not you are parent and are RESPONSIBLE for raising the child.
This gives you the AUTHORITY to set the limits and make the decisions.
You can even explain that sometimes you will make the wrong decision and will learn from your mistakes.
BUT the child is going to have to behave and act decently and live under your authority for 50% of the time.
Hopefully she will understand a little bit.
I have an Uncle in the same situation. He never had too many problems with his daughter, but the son did a lot of the same stuff as your daughter. At about 13-14 he stopped coming over to the father’s house even though he was supposed to be there half the time.
He did not have to live with the father’s rules.
He did not have to do chores.
He could set his own limits with the mother, and could hang with friends and play video games and stuff like that at the mothers house.
It did change a little when he graduated from high school. Of course his grades were not that great (no one made him study at all). He did not like or feel the need to work too much. Besides the grades, the money was not there for college or even any kind of training. (He could have at least made some money with the chores. Plus he would have a better relationship with the father.)
It was then after high school that the mother changed a little and asked the father for some help motivating the kid. And the kid finally when to the father.
They both did grow up just a little. And it was too bad that it had to happen that way.
N2golf
02-25-2003, 08:42 AM
Wll I have to tell you that her other parent has endless money and what my daughter wants, she will get just in spite of me. The other parent does not care about the child, just cares about getting back at me which I feel THAT'S immature! As far as telling her that I would help her pack, I have been told by counselors to say that because she is the one trying to manipulate the situation and I was told that if I didn't give into it, it would be sending a message to the child that saying that won't work. I remember my mother also saying that to me and it worked! So, I feel that tell her that I would help her pack is the definately the right thing to do. No, I don't want her to live at the other home, but, in this situation, with the other parent like I've said giving her everything she wants out of spite to me, I feel that I don't have much of a chance having her stay with me because of my refusal to change or eleviate my rules.
msrivers
02-25-2003, 02:08 PM
I feel for you. I truly do. My H and I are in the same situation. My step-son, 13, lives with us one week, then his mom the next. At our house there are limits, chores, homework, and he is the oldest of 4. At HER house there are NO rules, limits, chores, homework, and he is the only child. She has more money to spend on him thanwe do, (Obviously, with 4)He roams the streets while in her care, and we know where he is at all times while he is at our house. It gets VERY frustrating dealing with her. His grade of 27% in Science is a BIG deal to us, but to her it is "Just the way he is, why push it?"
I don't understand nor do I like this woman. She manipulates EVERY situation with her son, she hates me and does whatever she can to discredit me in front of my ss, and who gets hurt in the end? My ss. Luckily we have a very good relationship, and we have discussed the whole manipulation thing with him, and he understands the two VERY different homelifes. he of course knows that he can get/do whatever he wants at his mom's, and he knows he can't here. I know that SOON she is going to bringup the subject of him living with her full time, but that is NOT going to happen, ss doesn't want it too. My fear is that she will bribe him to live with her.
All I can say to your situation is stick to your guns, don't let her manipulate the situation, (your d), and be consistant. I hope this has helped somewhat. Good Luck.
I don't understand nor do I like this woman. She manipulates EVERY situation with her son, she hates me and does whatever she can to discredit me in front of my ss, and who gets hurt in the end? My ss. Luckily we have a very good relationship, and we have discussed the whole manipulation thing with him, and he understands the two VERY different homelifes. he of course knows that he can get/do whatever he wants at his mom's, and he knows he can't here. I know that SOON she is going to bringup the subject of him living with her full time, but that is NOT going to happen, ss doesn't want it too. My fear is that she will bribe him to live with her.
All I can say to your situation is stick to your guns, don't let her manipulate the situation, (your d), and be consistant. I hope this has helped somewhat. Good Luck.
N2golf
02-25-2003, 03:06 PM
Msrivers,
Thanks for your input. You have a better situation than we do. Unfortunately, my daughter seems to think the "threat" of her going to live at the other house will change our rules. It won't. Although I do not wish for her to live at the other home, I am not willing to compromise my rules here otherwise, she will think the next time and the time after that, she can manipulate once again. I know that it is hard on any children to be split in half especially when the two homes are so different. That's so hard on a child and sometimes I think that tough love says to let her live at the other house so it wn't be so hard on her....so to speak. I don't know. This is really tearing my daughter apart.
Thanks for your input. You have a better situation than we do. Unfortunately, my daughter seems to think the "threat" of her going to live at the other house will change our rules. It won't. Although I do not wish for her to live at the other home, I am not willing to compromise my rules here otherwise, she will think the next time and the time after that, she can manipulate once again. I know that it is hard on any children to be split in half especially when the two homes are so different. That's so hard on a child and sometimes I think that tough love says to let her live at the other house so it wn't be so hard on her....so to speak. I don't know. This is really tearing my daughter apart.
ffsmith
02-25-2003, 07:49 PM
Like I said I know that type of situation because of my uncle.
I really feel bad for you and your daughter.
And I agree with you, that the other parent is very immature and very irresponsible.
Irresponsible in setting limits for his child.
And irresponsible in using the child to get back at you.
Or trying to make the child choose his house over your house.
That is terrible behavior.
I really do not understand why you would tell her you are going to help here pack however.
But it is probably because I do not fully understand your exact situation.
When she says that she is going to live at the other house full time,
I am assuming that she may actually do this. That it is more than just an idle threat but that it is a couple of blowups away from happening.
I am assuming the other parent will let the child stay at his home full time.
I guess my question, to better understand the situation, is what has prevented the child from staying at the other home full time up to now? Or why is she coming over to your house at all?
Sure the child is trying to manipulate you, but it seems to be more than that.
If the child wants to stay at the other house full time she needs a reason.
The reasons (in her head) are going to be ‘your home is too strict’, ‘your home is no fun’, ‘you rules are too outrageous’, and ‘there are too many blowups or arguments at your house’
Some children are able to see that these are not very good reasons to cut off a relationship with a parent.
BUT another reason might be ‘I was told that I would get help packing, so I am not wanted in this house anymore, so that is my reason for living in the other house.’
If this is the case, then you daughter has not only manipulated you into giving her a reason for living at other home but she has also manipulated you into helping her pack up her stuff.
That is not the “tough” thing to do in my mind at all.
The “tough” thing to do and the most loving thing to do (in my opinion) is to stick to your rules.
Insist on your limits and use your best judgment to raise the daughter the best way that you know how.
Be the good role model that you seem to be.
It will be hard because the other parent is not helping parent with his 50% of the time.
Still if you stay consistent to your rules and are able to be a positive influence 50% of the time your are doing as good as possible in a very bad situation.
Of course this all just my opinion, it has more to do with my experience than yours, so by all means do what you think is right. You have to trust your instincts.
I really feel bad for you and your daughter.
And I agree with you, that the other parent is very immature and very irresponsible.
Irresponsible in setting limits for his child.
And irresponsible in using the child to get back at you.
Or trying to make the child choose his house over your house.
That is terrible behavior.
I really do not understand why you would tell her you are going to help here pack however.
But it is probably because I do not fully understand your exact situation.
When she says that she is going to live at the other house full time,
I am assuming that she may actually do this. That it is more than just an idle threat but that it is a couple of blowups away from happening.
I am assuming the other parent will let the child stay at his home full time.
I guess my question, to better understand the situation, is what has prevented the child from staying at the other home full time up to now? Or why is she coming over to your house at all?
Sure the child is trying to manipulate you, but it seems to be more than that.
If the child wants to stay at the other house full time she needs a reason.
The reasons (in her head) are going to be ‘your home is too strict’, ‘your home is no fun’, ‘you rules are too outrageous’, and ‘there are too many blowups or arguments at your house’
Some children are able to see that these are not very good reasons to cut off a relationship with a parent.
BUT another reason might be ‘I was told that I would get help packing, so I am not wanted in this house anymore, so that is my reason for living in the other house.’
If this is the case, then you daughter has not only manipulated you into giving her a reason for living at other home but she has also manipulated you into helping her pack up her stuff.
That is not the “tough” thing to do in my mind at all.
The “tough” thing to do and the most loving thing to do (in my opinion) is to stick to your rules.
Insist on your limits and use your best judgment to raise the daughter the best way that you know how.
Be the good role model that you seem to be.
It will be hard because the other parent is not helping parent with his 50% of the time.
Still if you stay consistent to your rules and are able to be a positive influence 50% of the time your are doing as good as possible in a very bad situation.
Of course this all just my opinion, it has more to do with my experience than yours, so by all means do what you think is right. You have to trust your instincts.
N2golf
02-25-2003, 08:53 PM
ffsmith,
You are exactly right when you said the reasons that my daughter would give as far as why she would be moving to the other house. When I tell her that I will help her pack, I also say with that, that it is her decision although I don't agree with it. She has been sat down and explained why we have rules, and that we have limitations because we feel that it is her best interest to do so. We also explain that we do the best job that we can as parents for her and that we don't have the money that the other parent has although that's what she expects. Right now, at her age, she is very materialistic. The other parent has a HUGE house, drive very nice cars (not that we don't) BUT, even though we don't have alot of money, we have taken her AND her friends on vacation with us, we let her go see an aunt out of state on an airplane, we took her to Disneyland for one of her B-days, and none of that seems to matter. The other parent with all the money that they have, NEVER takes her on a vacation anywhere. She never appreciated anything that we did for her or her friends and it just gets to the point that one has to wonder why she is so attracted to the other house. SHe gets pretty much ignored especially now that there is a little one in the house which is her half sister. The other parent has never been into children and now that there is another in the house, we are sure that there is alot of tension. Oh....they are also expecting another one! So, other than the other parent letting her go to school functions, parties, we are not sure where the strong ties lie....perhaps the lack of attention draws her close? I don't know.
You are exactly right when you said the reasons that my daughter would give as far as why she would be moving to the other house. When I tell her that I will help her pack, I also say with that, that it is her decision although I don't agree with it. She has been sat down and explained why we have rules, and that we have limitations because we feel that it is her best interest to do so. We also explain that we do the best job that we can as parents for her and that we don't have the money that the other parent has although that's what she expects. Right now, at her age, she is very materialistic. The other parent has a HUGE house, drive very nice cars (not that we don't) BUT, even though we don't have alot of money, we have taken her AND her friends on vacation with us, we let her go see an aunt out of state on an airplane, we took her to Disneyland for one of her B-days, and none of that seems to matter. The other parent with all the money that they have, NEVER takes her on a vacation anywhere. She never appreciated anything that we did for her or her friends and it just gets to the point that one has to wonder why she is so attracted to the other house. SHe gets pretty much ignored especially now that there is a little one in the house which is her half sister. The other parent has never been into children and now that there is another in the house, we are sure that there is alot of tension. Oh....they are also expecting another one! So, other than the other parent letting her go to school functions, parties, we are not sure where the strong ties lie....perhaps the lack of attention draws her close? I don't know.
ffsmith
02-25-2003, 10:58 PM
You are right. With the way things are today it is the child’s decision.
My uncle had a court order saying that he got custody 50% of the time
But his son did not want to be with him. There was no way to enforce the court order.
So he did not see his son for 4-5 years.
All I have to say about that is that it should NOT be the child’s decision.
They are not old enough or mature enough to make the right decision.
But I know that is not the way it is in the real world.
It sounds like you are saying that
You think that your child is bluffing when she talks about living in the other house.
This is the point I do not have a good feeling for when I read your posts.
You may be stricter, but you are also fun and a giving person.
I would hope that the child “knows” deep down that even though she may be angry with you or frustrated with your rules that it is in her best interest to obey as best she can and have a relationship with you.
I do not know where the strong tie lies either?
But I will say this. Even if the other parent is not that great and just gives her material things and no limits or rules, I do think that kids need a relationship with both parents. I think it is good that there is a tie, but I am baffled as to why it may or may not be so strong.
I think when you explain things to your daughter like you posted, that is great. That is the right thing to do.
I guess the only thing I would change is that one line.
When she says she is going to go live at the other house full time,
I would say ‘I really would not want you to do that. You probably can make that decision, but I do not agree with it, and do not believe it would be best for you.’
That approach just seems clearer to me.
I do sympathize with you though, and wish you both the best in your relationship.
[This message has been edited by ffsmith (edited 02-25-2003).]
My uncle had a court order saying that he got custody 50% of the time
But his son did not want to be with him. There was no way to enforce the court order.
So he did not see his son for 4-5 years.
All I have to say about that is that it should NOT be the child’s decision.
They are not old enough or mature enough to make the right decision.
But I know that is not the way it is in the real world.
It sounds like you are saying that
You think that your child is bluffing when she talks about living in the other house.
This is the point I do not have a good feeling for when I read your posts.
You may be stricter, but you are also fun and a giving person.
I would hope that the child “knows” deep down that even though she may be angry with you or frustrated with your rules that it is in her best interest to obey as best she can and have a relationship with you.
I do not know where the strong tie lies either?
But I will say this. Even if the other parent is not that great and just gives her material things and no limits or rules, I do think that kids need a relationship with both parents. I think it is good that there is a tie, but I am baffled as to why it may or may not be so strong.
I think when you explain things to your daughter like you posted, that is great. That is the right thing to do.
I guess the only thing I would change is that one line.
When she says she is going to go live at the other house full time,
I would say ‘I really would not want you to do that. You probably can make that decision, but I do not agree with it, and do not believe it would be best for you.’
That approach just seems clearer to me.
I do sympathize with you though, and wish you both the best in your relationship.
[This message has been edited by ffsmith (edited 02-25-2003).]
maisy
02-26-2003, 11:41 AM
This is a tough one....I have a 10-yo nephew in a very similar situation, although he is younger. When he is with my brother and his wife, he is allowed 1 hour of video game time per day, that's it. They do a lot of family-focused activities, sports etc. He is expected to help with household chores, keep his room clean, get his things ready for school etc.
Then there's his mom (my ex-sister in law).
When he is at her house, the television or video game gets turned on as soon as he gets there....and stays on ALL DAY. She sets absolutely no limits on it, and he knows that as soon as he gets there he can loaf around and do nothing. She also does not require him to help with chores, clean up after himself etc. He does not have to say please or thank you even! She had a VERY dysfunctional home growing up and unfortunately this is reflected in her parenting choices.
Since my nephew is younger than your child they are not dealing with him threatening to move one place or another--they have 50/50 custody and he is pretty used to the routine of changing houses. It does create a real discipline issue at my brother's though, esp. if "mom" has had him for two days straight or for a vacation. I also see discipline issues down the road in a few years based on the huge disparity between homes.
I would just stay with your rules but don't scream, yell etc. Just be firm and in control when there is a confrontation and say something to the effect of, "I love you, and I realize you have different rules when you are at dad's, but our home rules are not changing."
Also pick your battles. You don't want to fight with her over every single thing...or she might prefer the other house because everyone just leaves her alone and she has some peace and quiet. I divide "issues" up into categories based upon how negotiable they can be. The homework IS going to be done, bath IS going to be taken, dirty clothes WILL be put in the hamper, not thrown on the floor as if you lived at Windsor Castle! But.....staying up 15 minutes later now and then, earning extra computer time, and even getting to go to Girl Scouts (which she loves) etc. are negotiables and tied to daily behavior.
I also agree, don't tell her you'll help her pack. Even if you mean it to be "helpful" she can interpret it as "see? they don't want me". If she threatens to go to the other house for good, just be calm about it.....you can say something like, "Well, that would make me very sad and I would miss you." If it continues to be brought up then it can be discussed by you and your ex.....but the child should not be in control of that situation.
By the way, maybe wait it out until the new baby is born at the other house. A couple of nights of screaming newborn and she might be happy to come back to you!!!!! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/tired.gif http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/yawn.gif
Then there's his mom (my ex-sister in law).
When he is at her house, the television or video game gets turned on as soon as he gets there....and stays on ALL DAY. She sets absolutely no limits on it, and he knows that as soon as he gets there he can loaf around and do nothing. She also does not require him to help with chores, clean up after himself etc. He does not have to say please or thank you even! She had a VERY dysfunctional home growing up and unfortunately this is reflected in her parenting choices.
Since my nephew is younger than your child they are not dealing with him threatening to move one place or another--they have 50/50 custody and he is pretty used to the routine of changing houses. It does create a real discipline issue at my brother's though, esp. if "mom" has had him for two days straight or for a vacation. I also see discipline issues down the road in a few years based on the huge disparity between homes.
I would just stay with your rules but don't scream, yell etc. Just be firm and in control when there is a confrontation and say something to the effect of, "I love you, and I realize you have different rules when you are at dad's, but our home rules are not changing."
Also pick your battles. You don't want to fight with her over every single thing...or she might prefer the other house because everyone just leaves her alone and she has some peace and quiet. I divide "issues" up into categories based upon how negotiable they can be. The homework IS going to be done, bath IS going to be taken, dirty clothes WILL be put in the hamper, not thrown on the floor as if you lived at Windsor Castle! But.....staying up 15 minutes later now and then, earning extra computer time, and even getting to go to Girl Scouts (which she loves) etc. are negotiables and tied to daily behavior.
I also agree, don't tell her you'll help her pack. Even if you mean it to be "helpful" she can interpret it as "see? they don't want me". If she threatens to go to the other house for good, just be calm about it.....you can say something like, "Well, that would make me very sad and I would miss you." If it continues to be brought up then it can be discussed by you and your ex.....but the child should not be in control of that situation.
By the way, maybe wait it out until the new baby is born at the other house. A couple of nights of screaming newborn and she might be happy to come back to you!!!!! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/tired.gif http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/yawn.gif
N2golf
02-26-2003, 12:52 PM
Nah...the other newborn didn't seem to bother her. As far as the ex....we can not talk at all. We can't even email one another because of the games that get played to me. So...guess I'll just have to wait it out and yes the system is so messed up with letting children make the decision when they aren't old enough. To me, the children should be allowed to make the decision when they are old enough to take care of themselves. Another words....letting a child/minor make a decision such as that should not even be an option. Period. It seems that parents can not even dicipline a child in public without a child saying that they will call someone or having another party thinking that normal correction is considered abuse. How sad that is.