LookingForHealth
02-22-2003, 04:18 AM
ok I am the nanny and not the mom therefore I am in a stupid position. this 15 month old, strong and chubby, has a total fit each time the poop diaper needs to be changed. she makes it impossible for me to hold her down and also to put the new diaper on. she will arch her back (add the shrieking screams), kick her legs and arms, and most annoyingly will turn to either side so that i cant put on the new diaper. today she had a total fit and was screaming like crazy and the mom finally comes in and says what did you do to her. why do moms always say that??????? have they ever thought about the kid having a total fit and the adult with them has NOT done anything bad to them? she has the same fits for her own mom when its diaper time too. basically she hates it then. sorry this is not properly written...........how can i hold her down better than 'holding her down' which in turn looks abusive even though i am not holding hard. i know that if i dont get the damn diaper on she will go diarrhea or pee all over the place if i turn my back for 1 second. i told the mom that she did this diarrhea on herself thing twice so far, all because she wouldnt let me put on the diaper (the fight to stay naked). how can this mom understand that if she wants me to get the diaper on, i have to hold her down and let her scream? why does she always run into the room and pick her up to hug her? that is telling the kid that it is good to throw a fit and you get a reward for doing it, and you dont have to listen to nanny.......am i supposed to not put her diaper on or something just because she screams?! ridiculous.
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LookingForHealth
02-22-2003, 08:48 PM
Anybody?
Is the best thing to do -- confront them (we ALL know she does this) when they get home one day like 'you know she just would not let me put a diaper on, and after the bath there is just too much risk she will go poo all over the place if i dont get it on quickly. how do you suggest i get it on her without her freaking out?'
Is the best thing to do -- confront them (we ALL know she does this) when they get home one day like 'you know she just would not let me put a diaper on, and after the bath there is just too much risk she will go poo all over the place if i dont get it on quickly. how do you suggest i get it on her without her freaking out?'
bruised
02-23-2003, 08:35 PM
Looking...I have a question.Is the mom home when you nanny?If so,why should you have to change the child if the mom is home?I know you get paid for this stuff but I just can't understand why parents hire nannies when their home?Are they lazy to raise their own child or what and have to pay someone to do it?I work with a woman who has a live in nanny/babysitter for 6/7 days a week.Her kids are 8 and 6 yrs old and has babysat them since they were born.The mom feels she would rather work to have "her" time then raise her kids.When she wants alone time with hubby their shipped to babysitters for the weekend.The mom doesn't wake up with the girls before school,doesn't feed them breakfast,doesn't take them to school,doesn't pick them up,doesn't tuck them in,doesn't cook dinner,doesn't give them baths,doesn't do laundry,doesn't do housework or the shopping.The nanny/babysitter does it all for a lousy 100$canadian week!On her days off,she does what she wants by herself and doesn't include her kids.WHY HAVE KIDS!!!if you can't take the responsibility for your actions!I had to vent sorry,but it quite ticks me off.
N2golf
02-23-2003, 09:15 PM
I would find someone else to Nanny for!
LookingForHealth
02-24-2003, 05:05 AM
OMG that woman you described sounds horrendous. There's no way she can call herself the mom, she doesnt DO anything for them or do anything with them.
This family is wonderful and most of the time the kids are great too. BUT that diaper thing ughhhh. Tonight she was doing it to the dad and inside I was lmao. I think I saw him lightly smack her butt and kept saying stop it, and everything imaginable to say to that behavior. It's so lame, why does she fight something she knows must go on her, and it does not hurt. Why don't they hold her down by pinning her legs lightly? Why let her win? If he can't even get her to stop, how am I supposed to?
Honestly if it were my kid I would have started to discipline from the moment the screaming, rolling over kicking frenzy began. Spank, say no, etc. Why always say 'its just a baby.' I think this 15 month old 'baby' is smarter than everyone thinks.......
This family is wonderful and most of the time the kids are great too. BUT that diaper thing ughhhh. Tonight she was doing it to the dad and inside I was lmao. I think I saw him lightly smack her butt and kept saying stop it, and everything imaginable to say to that behavior. It's so lame, why does she fight something she knows must go on her, and it does not hurt. Why don't they hold her down by pinning her legs lightly? Why let her win? If he can't even get her to stop, how am I supposed to?
Honestly if it were my kid I would have started to discipline from the moment the screaming, rolling over kicking frenzy began. Spank, say no, etc. Why always say 'its just a baby.' I think this 15 month old 'baby' is smarter than everyone thinks.......
LookingForHealth
02-24-2003, 05:08 AM
About her being home when I am there, she had come home after doing hours of errands (I go there like 3 times a week, 4 hours each), and probably expects me to do the dirty work because I'm getting paid etc, but to think that I 'did something' to the kid, even when saying it jokingly, pisses me off. She was the one fighting me, and I'm just trying to put a diaper on. If you reward that behavior, just think what is going through the kids head...
lilihob
02-24-2003, 11:15 PM
are they the same couple who have the spoilt 3 yr old?
if they are, i just don't know how to advize you.
children are wonderful creatures, and very, very, smart. a baby of a few months in a loving household will soon learn "if i cry, someone will come" and that's right and healthy. so a year old will certainly know, "if i make a fuss, i might not have to wear this diaper, and i will get LOT'S of attention!
most kids LOVE to be naked, at that age my 2 loved to run off, their little butts in the fresh air, giggling as mommy/daddy chased them. but when we put on the "angry" voice and told them to come back, they did.
but tantrumming is not acceptable, and i too would be insulted if someone asked me,"what did you do to her?" even jokingly.
your problem is with her parents.
they obviously have a problem with consistant discipline and seem to not mind undermining your authority with the children.
in my house we have an unbreakable rule.
NEVER, EVER dispute the way someone. (whoever is in charge at the time,) is dealing with the children, in front of them.
if we have a problem we say "can i talk to you for a minute" and discuss it in private.
if i trusted someone enough to allow them to care for my children, i can certainly let them do it without second guessing them in front of the girls.
so i think you need to deal with parents.
in the UK there's an old saying,
"nanny knows best."
the upper class here may have an old tradition of not bringing up their children themselves, but at least they realised they didn't know what they were doing and let nanny do it in peace!
it amazes me that you can a cheap VCR and get a huge instruction manual. but anyone(barring cruel nature) can have a baby and just take it home, no questions asked!!
if they are, i just don't know how to advize you.
children are wonderful creatures, and very, very, smart. a baby of a few months in a loving household will soon learn "if i cry, someone will come" and that's right and healthy. so a year old will certainly know, "if i make a fuss, i might not have to wear this diaper, and i will get LOT'S of attention!
most kids LOVE to be naked, at that age my 2 loved to run off, their little butts in the fresh air, giggling as mommy/daddy chased them. but when we put on the "angry" voice and told them to come back, they did.
but tantrumming is not acceptable, and i too would be insulted if someone asked me,"what did you do to her?" even jokingly.
your problem is with her parents.
they obviously have a problem with consistant discipline and seem to not mind undermining your authority with the children.
in my house we have an unbreakable rule.
NEVER, EVER dispute the way someone. (whoever is in charge at the time,) is dealing with the children, in front of them.
if we have a problem we say "can i talk to you for a minute" and discuss it in private.
if i trusted someone enough to allow them to care for my children, i can certainly let them do it without second guessing them in front of the girls.
so i think you need to deal with parents.
in the UK there's an old saying,
"nanny knows best."
the upper class here may have an old tradition of not bringing up their children themselves, but at least they realised they didn't know what they were doing and let nanny do it in peace!
it amazes me that you can a cheap VCR and get a huge instruction manual. but anyone(barring cruel nature) can have a baby and just take it home, no questions asked!!
LookingForHealth
02-26-2003, 05:02 PM
You're so right about never humiliating a caretaker in front of the child. Do it all you want when the child isn't around. Yesterday both parents just happened to be there when it was diaper times, and I kept FLAPPING MY MOUTH with sarcastic remarks like 'it's a 2 person job, 'here comes the wrestling match' just to be able to express how much of a fight she makes it. I then said, yea, especially with loads of poop, if she flips her body over and kicks like that, itll go all over the carpet. The sister is also the 3 yar old I robably posted about who totally disrespects me at times. However, Ive noticed that the mom usually says 'do NOT talk to her like that, or she wont come back to play' and such things like that. Do kids that age see a babysitter as a threat or something? Why do they always act like brats?
bruised
02-26-2003, 05:53 PM
LOOKING..This family really urks me and I'm glad I'm not the one there!Why do you have to change the kids butt when their parents are there???Are they that lazy??Sounds too much like the one I work with!I pity nannies or babysitters.
momma2boys
02-26-2003, 08:54 PM
Looking, this may sound mean but I notice that in a lot of your posts they relate to how a child pisses you off. I do daycare and I know its not easy but Im wondering if you really enjoy doing this? As far as you changing the baby while they are home, if they are paying you thats your job. If they are going to take care of her then they dont need you there. I would just say, I really have a hard time changing her, can you show me how you do it so she lays still. no offense but I had a child I watched and I just could not deal with this child to the point I could nt stand being around her so I let her go for her good as well as mine. Its no good to be angry around a child.
LookingForHealth
02-27-2003, 05:27 AM
Well, nannies are humans with feelings. I really enjoy those kids, but there's no excuse for the ill behavior. The next person that would come along wouldn't be in a better situation than me, they would be in the same one. Parents can get pissed off by their own children, but when you're not the mother of the children it's even easier to feel frustrated. Children will prefer the mom over the nanny, they will try and manipulate the nanny too. I know when they are there that I should change it, and I do. Shes over 30 pounds at 15 months and has to be constrained to have a diaper changed, this is not something i've seen before. She does it to them as well. It's challenging to be in this position especially when the older one gives a report of the day to her mom and also they are extremely paranoid. He was home once when I was there with the 15 month old, and when he came in to check us she was not there and I was in front of the tv. He got hysterical asking where she was. I said SHES UPSTAIRS ASLEEP, LIKE YOU TOLD ME TO DO. gEE
momma2boys
02-27-2003, 08:32 AM
Time to find a new job! Let them find someone else to deal with them.
LookingForHealth
02-27-2003, 03:49 PM
I post about the bad things they do, not the good. I have never lost my temper with them or spanked them. I'm not going to ditch them just because they act up. I've worked with devil kids before, one had a knife under his bed, one had a bike chain, I can handle a temper tantrum above all things.
lil red chevy
02-27-2003, 11:34 PM
Why not try and start the potty training process? My daughter was not much older than one when she started training.
If thats not a good option, then try giving the child a toy or something to hold and look at while you change her. OR promise something if she can lay still while you change her. For example tell her you will read her a story once she has been changed if she can lay still for a few minutes.
You spoke about the mom rewarding her for bad behavior maybe you should try to reward her when she shows good behavior. Just a thought!
lil red chevy
If thats not a good option, then try giving the child a toy or something to hold and look at while you change her. OR promise something if she can lay still while you change her. For example tell her you will read her a story once she has been changed if she can lay still for a few minutes.
You spoke about the mom rewarding her for bad behavior maybe you should try to reward her when she shows good behavior. Just a thought!
lil red chevy
LookingForHealth
02-28-2003, 04:40 AM
Thanks Chevy.
What's strange is that I think I've said noooo so many times, handed her cool things like my cell phone, and it seems like she can't understand no or understand a 'bribe' (which work good with the older sister).
Her on a potty...the almost 3 year old sister is still mastering it (wears underwear during day). This younger one can't talk real words, can't walk perfect yet, and hates having to hold still for the diaper. Tomorrow I will try lightly placing my legs over her extended arms, just so she can't get away from me but is NOT pinned down.
What's strange is that I think I've said noooo so many times, handed her cool things like my cell phone, and it seems like she can't understand no or understand a 'bribe' (which work good with the older sister).
Her on a potty...the almost 3 year old sister is still mastering it (wears underwear during day). This younger one can't talk real words, can't walk perfect yet, and hates having to hold still for the diaper. Tomorrow I will try lightly placing my legs over her extended arms, just so she can't get away from me but is NOT pinned down.
ellekat19
02-28-2003, 08:30 AM
That mom sounds like a wacko.... Any reasonable parent knows that sometimes kids hate having a diaper change. My mom used to sit for me and my son would always throw fits when she changed his diaper. I had her give him a cracker or a toy while she did it, anything to keep his attention off the diaper... It is definitely wrong that she would assume you did something harmful to the child just because the child threw a fit. If people could hear some of the tantrums my little man throws (such as in the grocery store), they would think I was abusing him and I AM his mother.
mummyboo
03-04-2003, 01:10 AM
Perhaps you could try those "pull-up" nappies. She wouldn't have to lie down for you to put them on her. Ok, she would still have to lie down to be cleaned up, but maybe the novelty of getting to put on "big kid underwear" would calm her down.
familyfull
03-09-2003, 12:46 PM
My sons are 18 months apart now 3 1/2 & 2. My younger one at about 15 months would fight and struggle to get him diapered and dressed. I am glad to see you using the "sit-on-the-floor-use-your-feet-to-pin-the-arms-leaving-your-two-arms-free-to-deal-with-the-kicking-legs-while-you-diaper" technique. I had used this on him and yes its physically exhausting, but worked more than 90% of the time...
I did finally tire of having to do this, so I decided to put him in his crib until he wanted to cooperate. I would go in every 10 or 15 minutes and ask. Yes, at times, totally naked and yes there were times he peed (he never pooped - but if he had I suspect that I would have cleaned him and the mess up and put him back in there until he made the CHOICE to cooperate)-- In the meantime you would have to put the child in another "safe" place while you clean like a high chair. There were times when he chose to stay in that crib for hours before he decided to let me diaper him (or use pull-ups) to get out. Eventually, he realized that he could cooperate and move through this process and get on with the day, or he could spend time by himself to think about it. When you do something like this, you have to be prepared to stick to your guns and know that you will have to clean up some yucky stuff for a little bit; but eventually the child will make the choice. It took my son a few weeks. When he chose to be diapered I diapered and clothed him while he was still in the crib.
Definitely communicate this with the parents. You need to have their total support with this. Ask them to support you in this and try it for 3 weeks and see if the child makes different choices. It sounds like you are there when the mother is there and she needs to learn to butt out while the children are in your care!! (It sounds like there has been a breakdown in trust somewhere - perhaps with a clear cut plan and sticking to it and having a follow-up meeting with them after the 3 weeks will help rebuild this) The children obviously realize this and are manipulating the situation - it is in their nature to do so; little kids are not bad people.
Remember, it never hurt a child to cry as long as they are in a safe place where they can't get hurt.
I did finally tire of having to do this, so I decided to put him in his crib until he wanted to cooperate. I would go in every 10 or 15 minutes and ask. Yes, at times, totally naked and yes there were times he peed (he never pooped - but if he had I suspect that I would have cleaned him and the mess up and put him back in there until he made the CHOICE to cooperate)-- In the meantime you would have to put the child in another "safe" place while you clean like a high chair. There were times when he chose to stay in that crib for hours before he decided to let me diaper him (or use pull-ups) to get out. Eventually, he realized that he could cooperate and move through this process and get on with the day, or he could spend time by himself to think about it. When you do something like this, you have to be prepared to stick to your guns and know that you will have to clean up some yucky stuff for a little bit; but eventually the child will make the choice. It took my son a few weeks. When he chose to be diapered I diapered and clothed him while he was still in the crib.
Definitely communicate this with the parents. You need to have their total support with this. Ask them to support you in this and try it for 3 weeks and see if the child makes different choices. It sounds like you are there when the mother is there and she needs to learn to butt out while the children are in your care!! (It sounds like there has been a breakdown in trust somewhere - perhaps with a clear cut plan and sticking to it and having a follow-up meeting with them after the 3 weeks will help rebuild this) The children obviously realize this and are manipulating the situation - it is in their nature to do so; little kids are not bad people.
Remember, it never hurt a child to cry as long as they are in a safe place where they can't get hurt.
LookingForHealth
03-09-2003, 11:58 PM
familyfull you have great advice. So far I have been successful with the diapers after I posted this thread. What pushed my buttons was the usually extremely nice mother asking what I did to the toddler. The cry was blood curdling and she was giving herself a carpet burn from freaking out, nothing I did to her. I had 2 options when she was freaking out: continue on and change the diaper, or not change the diaper and let her get away with that. I guess the problem is the mother and she tries to still distinguish cries as if the 16 month old is a newborn. Whenever the cry is loud, shrieking etc she overanalyzes the situation and assumes it's something bad.
Cheryl3
03-12-2003, 10:36 PM
My advice is to hold her down however you need to when the parents aren't there, and when they are there, I would say (ever so sweetly): "Thank Goodness you're here! Could you show me how you handle it when she is doing this?"
The mother is not handling the situation very well, but she is probably just embarrassed and overwhelmed by the daughter's behavior, and maybe is even trying to lighten the mood by jokingly asking "What are you doing to her?" I think I've probably jokingly said something similar to my mother or mother-in-law when I came back from an outing to find my son having a fit. It's sort of a way of acknowleging that your child is a maniac and sympathizing with the frustrations of caring for him or her. I don't know if that makes any sense, and it's still not excusable for the mother to leave you without clear guidelines in this situation, but I doubt she really blames you for the behavior.
The mother is not handling the situation very well, but she is probably just embarrassed and overwhelmed by the daughter's behavior, and maybe is even trying to lighten the mood by jokingly asking "What are you doing to her?" I think I've probably jokingly said something similar to my mother or mother-in-law when I came back from an outing to find my son having a fit. It's sort of a way of acknowleging that your child is a maniac and sympathizing with the frustrations of caring for him or her. I don't know if that makes any sense, and it's still not excusable for the mother to leave you without clear guidelines in this situation, but I doubt she really blames you for the behavior.
LookingForHealth
03-13-2003, 12:02 AM
exactly cheryl, about the maniac thing you said when the child has a fit. however, her tone was sort of on the side of 'what did you do.' the baby has sensitive skin and had been fighting me during the diaper thing and rubbed her skin all over the carpet so she had red blotches. of course it looked like i had knocked her around. lately though she has not freaked out and thats how ill keep it- now im not afraid to shout NO to her with a mean nasty straight face. i gave her a wipe to hold and all kinds of stuff to distract her.
now, she fights me when its time to eat and be put in a (nice) highchair. the famous arching the back, flailing arms and legs, pissed off screaming. if it were my child i would say NO, stop it right now and continue to buckle her in, but once this dad said she doesnt want to get in there right now. its like, well, kids dont *like* or *want* to do a lot of things but does that mean we let them have their way ?no...
now, she fights me when its time to eat and be put in a (nice) highchair. the famous arching the back, flailing arms and legs, pissed off screaming. if it were my child i would say NO, stop it right now and continue to buckle her in, but once this dad said she doesnt want to get in there right now. its like, well, kids dont *like* or *want* to do a lot of things but does that mean we let them have their way ?no...
LookingForHealth
03-13-2003, 12:07 AM
i was reading another board recently and someone said that kids are extremely good at noticing conflicting discipline styles. im sure these 2 girls have picked up on the lax discipline the parents have, and how my discipline is shot down many times (even if its not on purpose). therefore, they know they can manipulate...its not that i am bothered to death by this, but its pointless to play games like that. its just interesting to discuss...the almost 3 year old screamed when she was supposed to be napping, and the dad went in there and got her out and let her miss her entire nap because she had a fit in the crib. (yes, recently he has been home in his office while i am there)
Cheryl3
03-13-2003, 01:28 AM
Well, I don't always agree with you but I do commend you for coming here to seek advice from parents, and I do sympathize with you in this situation, my dear! :) It's no wonder these people have to have a nanny even when they are home -- they are exhausted from letting a couple of toddlers push them around! These people need to take a parenting class. I used to be somewhat of a pushover myself with my toddler. I was so stressed out from work at the end of the day and it seemed like the easy thing to just appease him because the screaming was giving me a nervous tic. But then I realized that I wasn't doing any sort of favor for my son OR for any of the thousands of people who would have to interact with him over the course of his life. It is a parent's duty (and gift) to help their child learn to be a tolerable person.
Since you seem to have some standards about behavior and discipline while they do not, maybe they are not the most compatible family for you. I know you probably can't afford to just throw a job away, but maybe you should start looking. Think how much happier you would be if you worked for a family that had the same priorities and standards that you do. Life is too short....by the time you have your own kids you will be on valium if this keeps up!
By the way, I really respect what you do. There is not a week that goes by that I don't thank God for my sitter. She is a saint. I told her how I discipline my son, but I also told her that however she wants to handle it is fine by me, because I trust her.
I think it is probably even harder to be a nanny than doing daycare out of your own home, because you are on their turf and more under their scrutiny. Plus, I think the kids are more likely to act up in their own homes. Childcare is a tough job which does not receive enough respect or pay, in my opinion. Good luck with your situation.
[This message has been edited by Cheryl3 (edited 03-13-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Cheryl3 (edited 03-13-2003).]
Since you seem to have some standards about behavior and discipline while they do not, maybe they are not the most compatible family for you. I know you probably can't afford to just throw a job away, but maybe you should start looking. Think how much happier you would be if you worked for a family that had the same priorities and standards that you do. Life is too short....by the time you have your own kids you will be on valium if this keeps up!
By the way, I really respect what you do. There is not a week that goes by that I don't thank God for my sitter. She is a saint. I told her how I discipline my son, but I also told her that however she wants to handle it is fine by me, because I trust her.
I think it is probably even harder to be a nanny than doing daycare out of your own home, because you are on their turf and more under their scrutiny. Plus, I think the kids are more likely to act up in their own homes. Childcare is a tough job which does not receive enough respect or pay, in my opinion. Good luck with your situation.
[This message has been edited by Cheryl3 (edited 03-13-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Cheryl3 (edited 03-13-2003).]
niecsey
03-13-2003, 04:14 PM
l wouldnt do it if your not getting support from the parents http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif they know what nappy times like and should understand if they see you having problems they should take over its there child l used to lie my daughter over my knee even at 2.5 she used to go beserk but it was easiest way lean over her middle while you do it l never got pooped on once lol you will master it but id bewary nannying for people like that you will get the blame if anything happens or goes wrong they are of supportive of you personally it smells of trouble id leave good luck http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif
LookingForHealth
03-13-2003, 06:07 PM
98% of the time everything is perfect.....come to think of it, I told the mom that the 'baby' ran into the stairs and bruised her forehead and she said with a laugh something like 'all the bruises happen when you're here' How could I prevent the younger one from running herself into a staircase wooden pillar? She did it to herself in 1/2 of a second. When it was the mom giving her a bath, she bruised her eye badly and I wasn't even there ;)
seasant
03-15-2003, 05:58 AM
LookingForHealth,
I highly recommend you seek employment in a different field. Or, seek the guidance of a professional child psychologist who can give you some insight as to why this child is so adverse to anyone touching her bottom.
I can't imagine holding down a human being that has only been on the planet for 15 months. Sounds very cruel. Why be in a power play with a 15 month old baby!
As for the older child not being potty trained, so what, doesn't mean the younger child can't try.
Please try a little more love, understanding and kindness, or please seek other employment before your temper gets too far out of hand.
Take care and good luck.
------------------
I highly recommend you seek employment in a different field. Or, seek the guidance of a professional child psychologist who can give you some insight as to why this child is so adverse to anyone touching her bottom.
I can't imagine holding down a human being that has only been on the planet for 15 months. Sounds very cruel. Why be in a power play with a 15 month old baby!
As for the older child not being potty trained, so what, doesn't mean the younger child can't try.
Please try a little more love, understanding and kindness, or please seek other employment before your temper gets too far out of hand.
Take care and good luck.
------------------
LookingForHealth
03-15-2003, 09:29 PM
youve got me all wrong. i do not hold her down. my knee is not even touching her, its placed over her so she cant kick me in the face and cant flip her body over (almost chipped me and her moms teeth with the kicks and the head butts). to say that just because she has been alive 15 months makes her a saint isnt accurate with kids. they learn manipulation and all kinds of things very early on. and what age are they considered no longer innocent? they need to learn early on what is ok and what isnt. you dont just start disciplining and laying down the law when they turn 7.
i would never strike those kids, the parents do slight spanks to the eldest when she has severely crossed the line.
possible reasons she freaks out when its diaper time is because they have babied her every cry, and she gets rashes down there from having sensitive skin. maybe she wants to have her way or the highway.
potty train a 15 month old? never heard of it, especially with this child as she is still a chubby baby, losing her balance as she waddles. cant even talk more than baby words yet.
i would never strike those kids, the parents do slight spanks to the eldest when she has severely crossed the line.
possible reasons she freaks out when its diaper time is because they have babied her every cry, and she gets rashes down there from having sensitive skin. maybe she wants to have her way or the highway.
potty train a 15 month old? never heard of it, especially with this child as she is still a chubby baby, losing her balance as she waddles. cant even talk more than baby words yet.
LookingForHealth
03-15-2003, 09:31 PM
and to add, 98% of the time it is a loving and fun environment, i only post about my concerns, not about what i like about them. thats why im here.
seasant
03-15-2003, 11:10 PM
Potty training a 15 mo. old is early, I agree, but I did a research paper in college once that was on potty training a 9 mo. old! According to the research, it can and has been done - forgot how though! I think I did the paper on that subject because I found it so strange in the first place.
It just seems nuts to allow this little cherub to ruffle your feathers and waste your energy. It's obvious to me that this junior toddler has a huge hangup about being changed, so, maybe a child psychologist can shed some light on the subject.
If the little chubby one insists on no diaper, perhaps there's an area with no carpet and easy clean up flooring that she can be corralled in. Put a potty chair in there as well, in the event she gets the notion to sit on it and go. If she's a bright as you think she is, it may work, or at least she will know that if she wants out of the corralled area she will have to have a diaper on - period. No anger, no tension, no figuring out how to hold her down, just the way it is - she has the choice. You could even play with her and feed her over the "fence."
Just got another idea! Maybe only change her when she's sleeping!!
Good luck.
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It just seems nuts to allow this little cherub to ruffle your feathers and waste your energy. It's obvious to me that this junior toddler has a huge hangup about being changed, so, maybe a child psychologist can shed some light on the subject.
If the little chubby one insists on no diaper, perhaps there's an area with no carpet and easy clean up flooring that she can be corralled in. Put a potty chair in there as well, in the event she gets the notion to sit on it and go. If she's a bright as you think she is, it may work, or at least she will know that if she wants out of the corralled area she will have to have a diaper on - period. No anger, no tension, no figuring out how to hold her down, just the way it is - she has the choice. You could even play with her and feed her over the "fence."
Just got another idea! Maybe only change her when she's sleeping!!
Good luck.
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LookingForHealth
03-16-2003, 04:16 AM
the mom is still letting the 3 year old wear pull ups at nap and bedtime, she would never start the 15 month old potty training. the baby is chubby, wobbly and cant talk. i think she would have accidents 15 times a day because shes in that baby mind frame of just letting it out no matter what.
they probably encouraged her diaper hangup by not showing her at a very early age to obey during it. or maybe she just thinks she can fight us to stay naked. this is probably 'incorrect' to do, but i believe that something such as this contains no options for kids. they must get that diaper changed for their own good. and fighting it is not ok, only if there is a rash is it ok to squirm and kick and fuss. its a control thing (i never acted like that at that age).
i think these days, even though i am young, kids are getting away with everything. parents are afraid to say no, they are afraid to lay down the law, they are afraid to hurt their childs feelings. and what does that produce? nothing but bad behavior and being spoilt. i think its better for the kids to learn early on how to listen to adults who take care of them, or they will never listen.
they probably encouraged her diaper hangup by not showing her at a very early age to obey during it. or maybe she just thinks she can fight us to stay naked. this is probably 'incorrect' to do, but i believe that something such as this contains no options for kids. they must get that diaper changed for their own good. and fighting it is not ok, only if there is a rash is it ok to squirm and kick and fuss. its a control thing (i never acted like that at that age).
i think these days, even though i am young, kids are getting away with everything. parents are afraid to say no, they are afraid to lay down the law, they are afraid to hurt their childs feelings. and what does that produce? nothing but bad behavior and being spoilt. i think its better for the kids to learn early on how to listen to adults who take care of them, or they will never listen.
franjo
03-16-2003, 02:11 PM
Children at the age of 15 mos. are the most egotistical beings on the face of the earth! Absolutely everything has to do with self-gratification. And this is NORMAL behavior. It's called AUTONOMY, a crucial developmental stage that each child, hopefully, will emerge from successfully. They are discovering that their behavior can impact their environment and others' behavior. They are learning and practicing how to do that effectively, a trial and error phase. Patience and gentle guidance is key to this stage in their development. They do not really intend to drive us crazy, nor do they have any other agenda other than getting what they want. And that's okay. It provides an excellent opportunity to show them the boundaries of their behavior. Children really do crave boundaries, it makes the world predictable to them and, therefore, a safer place to explore. I think what you're seeing now in this child is just a normal part of her development, it has just manifested itself with the diaper changing issue. Please try and remain patient.
Just an idea, you may have tried it already, but what about having a hand puppet, with lots of silly animation, do the changing? Sometimes the things that work may take some time to discover. Those little ones are not very forthcoming in telling us what gets them to motivate. It is a trial and error period for us too, I suppose. Good Luck with this, and hang in there. This too shall pass, then on with the next dilemna! :)
-franjo
Just an idea, you may have tried it already, but what about having a hand puppet, with lots of silly animation, do the changing? Sometimes the things that work may take some time to discover. Those little ones are not very forthcoming in telling us what gets them to motivate. It is a trial and error period for us too, I suppose. Good Luck with this, and hang in there. This too shall pass, then on with the next dilemna! :)
-franjo
LookingForHealth
03-19-2003, 06:13 PM
This isn't directed at anyone, just a thought in my head-
Parenting sure is strange, people seem to forget or ignore that all kids turn into adults one day. 10 years ago, I was in elementary school, and today I am a nanny. A 16 month old is not going to be an impaired adult because they have a flashback that they hated having diapers changed. I doubt she will even remember being this age. Again, parents are afraid to say no, because they think 'it's just a baby, can't expect anything out of a baby.' If the rules are placed early on, it will be easier for them as an adult to be responsible and follow the rules, and they will be happy you did that. They will be angry at you if they realize you never did anything to discipline and they now have a hard time being an adult. I noticed when my 4 and 7 year old cousins were over, their mom never disciplined their bad behavior and so they would ran through our house and destroy something etc. The kids were in charge.
It is going to be a real shock to a person if they grew up getting away with everything...and then they enter the adult world and can't obey the rules.
There are some things they can't have a choice with, you must sit in your highchair, you must take a bath, you must have your diaper changed. It makes no sense to be told what to do by a toddler.
[This message has been edited by LookingForHealth (edited 03-19-2003).]
Parenting sure is strange, people seem to forget or ignore that all kids turn into adults one day. 10 years ago, I was in elementary school, and today I am a nanny. A 16 month old is not going to be an impaired adult because they have a flashback that they hated having diapers changed. I doubt she will even remember being this age. Again, parents are afraid to say no, because they think 'it's just a baby, can't expect anything out of a baby.' If the rules are placed early on, it will be easier for them as an adult to be responsible and follow the rules, and they will be happy you did that. They will be angry at you if they realize you never did anything to discipline and they now have a hard time being an adult. I noticed when my 4 and 7 year old cousins were over, their mom never disciplined their bad behavior and so they would ran through our house and destroy something etc. The kids were in charge.
It is going to be a real shock to a person if they grew up getting away with everything...and then they enter the adult world and can't obey the rules.
There are some things they can't have a choice with, you must sit in your highchair, you must take a bath, you must have your diaper changed. It makes no sense to be told what to do by a toddler.
[This message has been edited by LookingForHealth (edited 03-19-2003).]
Cheryl3
03-20-2003, 11:04 PM
I tend to agree with you. Parents have an obligation to give their kids boundaries. What kind of a society would we have if everybody grew up thinking "I am the center of the universe, I can do no wrong, and I can have whatever I want?" It's really not conducive to helping a child adapt to society.
My parents were very strict disciplinarians when I was growing up, and I just accepted it. If it's started early enough, kids just don't question it. I learned pretty quickly that if I wanted to do certain things, I'd better be prepared to take my lumps for it. I wasn't "traumatized" by being spanked or having my mouth washed out with soap. On the contrary, I think these experiences were character-building ones for me, not to mention entertaining when retold to friends! My sister and I get a huge kick out of rehashing some of the bizarre punishments my dad gave us. At the risk of sounding deranged, I have to say that we recall them almost fondly! We may have thought it wasn't fair at the time, but looking back, I can say that I deserved every single one. I don't really understand why people are so worried about kids being "traumatized" by the loving discipline and limits imposed by their parents.
My parents were very strict disciplinarians when I was growing up, and I just accepted it. If it's started early enough, kids just don't question it. I learned pretty quickly that if I wanted to do certain things, I'd better be prepared to take my lumps for it. I wasn't "traumatized" by being spanked or having my mouth washed out with soap. On the contrary, I think these experiences were character-building ones for me, not to mention entertaining when retold to friends! My sister and I get a huge kick out of rehashing some of the bizarre punishments my dad gave us. At the risk of sounding deranged, I have to say that we recall them almost fondly! We may have thought it wasn't fair at the time, but looking back, I can say that I deserved every single one. I don't really understand why people are so worried about kids being "traumatized" by the loving discipline and limits imposed by their parents.
Kimianne
04-02-2003, 11:39 AM
Well, thought I'd put in my two cents here. My pediatrician has informed (and my personal doctor agrees) it is IMPOSSIBLE to spoil a child under two.
Under two children only think of things in terms of themselves and how things relate to themselves. Nothing you do is going to change it - it is very NORMAL.
At about the age of two, they start developing a sense that things are not always about or relating to them. And then they can realize how the world works in relation to families and their roles in families etc.,
I believe it - my son will be three in May. There is a huge difference in his perception and therefore actions from two until now.
Perceptions make actions - it's common sense that if at fifteen months old a child feels that the world is all about them then if they don't like something they make it known. Their perception is that it should stop because the world is about them and they don't like what's happening.
As my doctor says, for the first two years it's just LOVE, LOVE , LOVE them. There's plenty of time in all the years comming to sweat the small stuff.
My son, as I said, is almost three- he does not have outlandish temper tantrums and he does listen to me. And I did not have to make a big issue when he was younger out of little things. I would talk lovingly and play with him until he say that everything was ok and we just moved forward from there.
Parenting can be hard although rewarding. And being a nanny put you in a parenting role. LOVE the children and do things in a loving way.
The rest will come. But you will find that if given the right amount of support and good feelings now. The rest will come a lot easier then if you keep up these battles.
I do not feel that anyone (much less someone in charge of caregiving) should be berated in front of any child. Regardless, they are the parents and you are the nanny that's the fact of the matter. If you cannot make them understand that it not only unacceptable but more importantly detrimental to the child's development and your role in that development for this to continue you are going to have to accept things or leave.
Good luck to you. I do hope you can work it out.
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Kimi
Under two children only think of things in terms of themselves and how things relate to themselves. Nothing you do is going to change it - it is very NORMAL.
At about the age of two, they start developing a sense that things are not always about or relating to them. And then they can realize how the world works in relation to families and their roles in families etc.,
I believe it - my son will be three in May. There is a huge difference in his perception and therefore actions from two until now.
Perceptions make actions - it's common sense that if at fifteen months old a child feels that the world is all about them then if they don't like something they make it known. Their perception is that it should stop because the world is about them and they don't like what's happening.
As my doctor says, for the first two years it's just LOVE, LOVE , LOVE them. There's plenty of time in all the years comming to sweat the small stuff.
My son, as I said, is almost three- he does not have outlandish temper tantrums and he does listen to me. And I did not have to make a big issue when he was younger out of little things. I would talk lovingly and play with him until he say that everything was ok and we just moved forward from there.
Parenting can be hard although rewarding. And being a nanny put you in a parenting role. LOVE the children and do things in a loving way.
The rest will come. But you will find that if given the right amount of support and good feelings now. The rest will come a lot easier then if you keep up these battles.
I do not feel that anyone (much less someone in charge of caregiving) should be berated in front of any child. Regardless, they are the parents and you are the nanny that's the fact of the matter. If you cannot make them understand that it not only unacceptable but more importantly detrimental to the child's development and your role in that development for this to continue you are going to have to accept things or leave.
Good luck to you. I do hope you can work it out.
------------------
Kimi
LookingForHealth
04-03-2003, 01:27 AM
this thread is old, i do not even have that diaper problem that much anymore.
under 2 thinks the world is THEIRS, but that doesnt mean we should feed into it. let the child know that the diaper must be changed, dont just let them flail their arms and legs, headbutt you and kick you in the face because they think 'the world is mine.' the thing you DONT do at this age is punish them for tantrums (18 mos). stay firm and positive and keep changing the stupid diaper.
under 2 thinks the world is THEIRS, but that doesnt mean we should feed into it. let the child know that the diaper must be changed, dont just let them flail their arms and legs, headbutt you and kick you in the face because they think 'the world is mine.' the thing you DONT do at this age is punish them for tantrums (18 mos). stay firm and positive and keep changing the stupid diaper.
Kimianne
04-03-2003, 12:25 PM
Message
[This message has been edited by Kimianne (edited 04-04-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Kimianne (edited 04-04-2003).]