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Greenberry
10-30-2002, 01:35 PM
I need some words of encouragement, PLEASE...I have a beautiful, healthy, extremely intelligent two year old daughter. She is a really great kid. Around the house, she minds me for the most part, helps me pick up her toys and generally behaves pretty well. But once we leave the confines of our house, she goes totally whacko and I am completely unable to control her. The only place we are able to go is to the grocery store, where she is at least confined to a shopping cart. Anywhere else is total mayhem. I took her to a Halloween party with a few other children (most of them a little older than her) a few weeks ago. I was unable to sit down for nearly 3 hours because she was into EVERYTHING in my friend's house (being 4 months pregnant, running non-stop for 3 hours was somewhat of a hardship). What's worse, the party was partially outside, after dark, and my daughter kept running off. The last straw was at the library today when she went totally nuts and I had to grab her and run to the car. In the two hours since, I have decided that we are NOT going to go anywhere except to family events where I can somewhat control things EVER AGAIN. I am afraid to discipline her (i.e., spanking, which is the only form of punishment that even makes any impression on her at all) in public for fear of being arrested for "child abuse," so what else can I do? She is way too young to understand a pre-event "pep talk" where I outline what I expect her to do. I have tried this on every occasion, even today before we went to the library, and it was totally uneffective.

I guess the bottom line is this...am I the only parent of a two year old who CANNOT leave the house with them? I hope not, but I have several friends with multiple toddlers who seem to take them everywhere, and it seems that I am the only one I know in this dilemma. AAAARRRRGGHHH!

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lovelyme
10-30-2002, 03:19 PM
I have kids that can go anywhere......now. See my daughter pulled the library thing at story time once when I was also 4or 5 months along and I waited until she was older and the baby was born so for about 6 months. Key thing is you have to do 2 main things. 1) As the mom/parent learn to partially let them just be a kid and this does not count when they are clearly doing something wrong. 2)Literally take them places like the park and such where they can blow off steam and just run. If ou are not outdoorsy start now because it works emmensly and after time it helps them keep their cool in public places and keep your stroller always handy for places like the library and parties even though she is 2. It is something familiar to them and though it should not be used to confine them it does help when you need to calm them from running and keeps you from chasing them all over. I have a 21 month old and 3 1/2 year old so chasing is sometimes my job, but it isn't like it used to be. I atribute most of the good behavior I get outside the home to being outside and everywhere alot. Don't get me wrong we spend a sufficient amount of time at home, but beng out more will break it. NOT LEAVING will worsen it by her never getting the chance to learn. I know it is tiring, but keep implimenting to her the same rules and make them apply wherever neccesary. Stick to the same phrases so not to be inconsistent. For example, "You may not run in the Aunt Sue's house because that is the rule. That's the rule at your house and you know that. If you run you are going to break the rule and need to be put in time out. Do you want a time out?" Of course they say no so you can go from there and of course this does not work immediatly, but keep the phrase or rule the same whatever the rule may be. I, personally, spank on the butt, however I try to use words over everything else and if all words fail I tell my kids that the "Little Kid Police" are watching and will come over and put them in time out if they don't listen to mommy. It makes them see that other people like authority figures as well don't appreciate them breaking rules. Plus when you instill it as a rule istead of your actual "want" (example: "I want you to behave") they mostly see it as you enforcing something that is just known as opposed to you personally (even though it is) bossing them. I think star charts work even at age 2. My 3 year old used one and if she obeyed and helped and shared then she got sticker on those days for those things she did and was rewarded and when not rewarded I could show her why she wasn't. Hope this helps.

------------------
Marie

mlgable
10-31-2002, 11:25 AM
When you child tends to misbehave or not mind when at a party or out in public let her know in terms she will understand that this is NOT acceptable behavior and that you will not tolerate it. Let her know what it is expected of her and warn her once or twice if she misbehaves or whatever. After a warning or two calmly tell her since she can't behave that you need to leave and then take her home. Do not stop anyplace along the way even if you planned on stopping for milk or something. Once she gets the drift that her behavior will not be tolerated and that she does have to mind when she is in certain places she will probably learn to follow your rules. By all means let her be a kid when the situation allows it but when in public she needs to know what is expected of her and what the consequence will be if she doesn't follow your rules. I have 2 kids 10 3/4 and many a time I have left a store with only part of my shopping done or my husband has taken the kids home from a restaurant while the rest of us finish a meal. My kids are 11 & 12 now but they know enough of what is acceptable behavior when in public because of this. Also one tip that might help other mothers of kids who tend to want to touch things in the stores...........when we were in a department that had breakables I came up with the of this is a "hands in your pocket store". This meant the kids had to put their hands in their coat pockets and were not to touch anything. They did need reminders at times while in those type of departments but all I had to say was "hands in your pockets" and they knew what that meant.

Magpiezoe
10-31-2002, 02:51 PM
Hello, I have a set rule with my son. He always has to hold my hand where ever we go. If I have to use both my hands, I make him hold onto my clothes. I have also seen people use "kiddie leashes." I also have my son either bring a toy or help me when I go grocery shopping. He puts the produce in bags, helps me put things into the cart, reminds me of what I need to get, and we talk and sing lots. We sing the ABC song while we're standing in line. Now that he's 4, he packs my groceries. I used to make him a special shopping list when he was younger, it was pictures of things we needed cut out from flyers and pasted onto a piece of paper. I find the best thing that I can do is to involve my son in my shopping trip. You can even have your daughter look for certain colors and point out where she sees them. For example I would say, 'I see the color "red." Do you see it too?" As far as the day care situation, they have to know about separation anxiety.

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Magpie

Chelle1977
11-05-2002, 05:04 PM
There is a HUGE difference between spanking your child and beating your child. You are not going to be arrested for child abuse if you spank your daughter. I have a friend at work who always took her son to the bathroom to discipline him. You might consider that though it may make her think of the bathroom as a bad place and I'm guessing she isn't quite potty-trained yet.

You just have to be more firm with her than you are. Having children is no excuse to miss out on life. She needs to learn how to behave on excusrions and you have to teach her.

LookingForHealth
01-18-2003, 02:29 PM
If spanking is the only thing that works, why not just pinch her arm during a tantrum/episode? While doing it say "STOP" or "CUT IT OUT!"
Of course you wouldn't resort to pinching for every child, and anything they may do bad. But when it becomes like this where she just doesn't listen...

mushroom1
01-24-2003, 05:12 AM
Dr. Spock and Dr. T.Barry Brazelton are both totally against spanking, pinching etc.

LookingForHealth
01-24-2003, 02:22 PM
I've never heard anyone discuss pinching, as it is not the kind of pinch you'd get from a sibling where it hurts like a bruise. You grab the skin on the upper arm, look them in the eye and say 'STOP IT RIGHT NOW!'
You do not dig your nails in them, cause any actual pain. They feel the pressure of your fingers, grabs their attention...

LookingForHealth
01-24-2003, 02:26 PM
Something that works are threats and then following through with them. For a child totally out of control/ ruling the house, it is necessary to show them who is boss. The mom I nanny for uses the pinching/threat method but I do not because it isn't my kid...when I'm with her I use the threat method and the stop it. If she does anything 'outrageous' she gets a warning, then if she does it again I put her in the crib (almost 3) and turn off the light and close the door. That she does not like, so she whines/screams and I go right in and get her. After seeing what her punishment will be, she stops the bad behavior.

[This message has been edited by LookingForHealth (edited 01-24-2003).]

[This message has been edited by LookingForHealth (edited 01-24-2003).]

mommyof5
01-24-2003, 03:16 PM
Hi, my 2 year old son is hell on wheels when we are out anywhere. What I've done is told him there is a time out spot everywhere. Of course he still misbehaves, then I ask him if he needs to go in time out, he'll say no but if he continues I will put him in time out, even if it means sitting him against the wall in the shopping mall for 5 minutes, and he hates time out and I usually have to restrain him in my arms while he kicks,screams,hits,scratches,etc. (I ignore the nasty looks from the people around). It improves his behavior for a while (could be 5 minutes, could be 30 minutes) but I will do it again and again until I'm completely fed up and go home.they say consistency is good. I always tell him that I love him after a time out and give hugs and kisses and explain what behavior I didn't like. I hope this helps. (Personally I don't think things will get much better before he's 4 1/2)

mommyof5

bruised
01-24-2003, 03:41 PM
Iave to mention about the pinching thing.I've done it and it doesn't work.It's kind of an alternative that you mean business.But when you have a child that speaks and you do this,they turn around loudly and say"that hurts".Well that grabs peoples attention.To spank or not to spank in public,well in other people's minds it is "child abuse" and will not be tolerated.I agree there's a time and place to do it.And I'm hoping some agree with me on it.Have you ever been to Walmart and you see the cameras in every nook and cranny above you?Imagine spanking your kid cause he is behaving nasty and that's the only way to stop his behaviour?Then you have a walmart person come and take your child cause he saw this?I couldn't imagine it.It's really hard to to this sort of stuff in public places cause there's such a mix of contraverSy about spanking.Kids are taught in school,that if a parent does hit,spank or treat them in an unorderly fashion,that they are to tell someone or call that hotline #.I think it's disgusting personally,because if we did it for a reason the kids will make it into something bigger.It's really sad how it is nowadays compared to when our grandparents and parents grew up.I agree with a time and place for everything.

Greenberry
01-24-2003, 04:41 PM
I have been meaning to post an update to this. Things have been improving for us. About 2 weeks ago I had to take my daughter (now almost 2 1/2--how time flies) to the doctor and she was WONDERFUL! She was already sick, so I didn't mind her playing with the "sick" kid toys, and she sat there on the floor at my feet and played and totally minded her own business. Every "command" I gave her, she complied with. She didn't pitch any tantrums or run or anything. I expected a total meltdown because she was sick, but she did great. She has started to mind me ALMOST every time I tell her to do something, and it has been weeks since I spanked her. I am sure that I will have to do it again, but the threat of spanking has been enough lately to keep her in line. I am a very firm believer in spanking (especially now), but my mother used the pinching method, and I don't know if I will try it myself (although it was effective). Maybe when she is older I might, but I don't know. But anyway, things are looking up for us. I still don't take her anywhere without a shopping cart, however. I just haven't gotten the courage yet.

LookingForHealth
01-24-2003, 06:59 PM
I can't believe those people that consider a spank on the butt abuse! They must be confused with the people who use a belt/frying pan and do it for ANY little thing, physically harming the child etc. If you're in a store and the young child is TOTALLY p*ssing you off (you all know what those things are) the pinching method does not draw attention, show on a camera because #1 it does not stand out and #2 it is not physically abusing them. If you pinch the skin under their arm, near the armpit, they will look at you and listen to you. To the other NOSEY customers/workers it looks like you have a hold on their arm (your other option actually). This is especially necessary if they are running all over the place and could in turn place themselves in danger. A perfect situation is if they suddenly dart into the street, not listening to your verbal NO's, you definitely should do the pinch. I never acted like this as a young kid so I never listen to the excuse by some anti-spankers that it's just a kid being a kid. It is not just being a kid when you flat out act like a brat and don't listen to your mom at a young age. I don't know why some people would worry that spank/pinch would leave emotional scars on a child...only if you BEAT your child up will that happen. People are so afraid to show their kids who is in charge. Pretty soon it will be illegal to tell your child 'NO' or to let them cry.

rainflower
01-27-2003, 01:05 AM
For my sons I used a variation on the pinching idea. We call it "tweaking". Tweaking is firmly pulling the hair right above their ears. Of course not hard enough to pull the hair out but a tug. It never failed to get their attention in public. I have also used the nose in the corner in public. I found for me that I would threaten and threaten and never carry thru, and each time I did this it only made them push me more with me not keeping my word on consequence. So now I warn, count to two the second time and then consequence. I havent had to tweak in probably two years....just an idea. Good luck.

mushroom1
01-29-2003, 02:39 PM
When my kids were very little and not into shopping, I simply waited until their bedtime to shop...leaving them home with their father.
If I had to take them with me, and they were being unruly...I would send them to time out wherever we were.
I never found any reason to spank or pinch.

mushroom1
01-29-2003, 02:44 PM
I also "count" as well. I say, "Stop" and if they don't, I say "One, two, three, four..." (How long it takes them to stop, is how long they will spend in time out. I have never had to go past 5 or 6.

Chelle1977
01-29-2003, 03:08 PM
Re-reading the title of this post made me think of something else - I'm not sure how you were with your daughter when she was an infant, but I often think those children who go out with their parents/family often are the ones that are the most well-behaved.

Perhaps your friends don't have trouble simply because they DO take their children everywhere, where your daughter doesn't know what is acceptable or not because you do not.

LookingForHealth
01-30-2003, 04:10 AM
There are kids that need a good spank (not a beating)

mushroom1
01-30-2003, 04:50 PM
I strongly disagree and do not believe there is such a thing as a "good" spank.
My children are not special...they are normal, active children. Yet, I took the time to help them through things without spanking. Through the years, I often heard from other adults how good they were, at school, sleep-overs etc.
If you choose not to spank, you will never need to spank.

Anablackfury
02-06-2003, 02:15 AM
My 2 cents, I was beaten as a child not spanked but beaten. Some kids are able to handle being punished in time outs and some won't, but as my pastor once put it. There is a special place for spankings and that is the bottom. Which is nicely padded for such.
Parents(especailly mothers) will always have different opionions about raising their children, and everyone will have their own 2 cents about raising yours. I.E. the spanking, it is acceptable to some of you and not to others. The pinching just absolutly terrifies me though. My daughter suffices with me counting. And in public places me holding her hand, or in her stroller. But remember kids have a bundle of energy, keeping them locked up some where isn't the key. Also one reason for her behavior, might be b/c it is a new place it isn't home. Different senery/different behavior.

Nayrb
02-06-2003, 07:47 PM
Greenberry, We once had 2 two year olds. I believe the proper term for this age is the terrible two's. They do eventually slow down. Watch their sugar intake.

wrin
02-14-2003, 04:08 AM
So many parents who argue against a smack are confusing a smack with pain.

Becuase it isn't.

Honestly, it isn't intended to cause injury -- it's intended as a warning, intended to frighten, intended to reset the toggle-switch so to speak. Hard enough to make noise. Doesn't have to hurt.

siren24
02-14-2003, 08:13 PM
I don't have any children (til July) but it hasn't been that long for me since I WAS an unruly, strong willed child. Looking back, I completely agree that some kids don't learn from any kind of punishment but spanking. My mom tried everything else, and spanking was the only thing that worked. I wasn't afraid of her or traumatized. I just understood that if I broke the rules my bottom would be sore and that 1) it could be easily avoided and 2) I deserved it. I was spanked, pinched, and tweaked until I was too old to be spanked and priveliges (junior high) meant a lot more to me than pain. I work with children, and of course I don't spank other people's kids, but some children just don't understand punishment that is not immediate. What do you do with a kid who REFUSES to stay in time out? Tie him down? That would be much worse than spanking. I think that a lot of the problems in the world today stem from soft parenting and the "no spanking" BS and that kids these days are underdisciplined and over indulged. I know several that could benefit from a good spanking, and personally, I don't want one of my kids to be one of them.

mushroom1
02-14-2003, 11:24 PM
The "other stuff" works, IF you never spank. My children view time-out as TERRIBLE, because it is the worst punishment that they have ever experienced. Everything is relative.

I have also noticed that if I am really being a good, interested mother, time-outs are rarely necessary.
Kids need lots of time and attention and that makes them want to please.

mushroom1
02-14-2003, 11:30 PM
To answer your question: I tell my children time-out and sometimes they do say no, then I begin counting...and they know what that means, that they will soon be having time-out in their room. And there have been several times that I have had to hole their door shut, but they understand the way to make the punishment end, is to calm down and act properly.

I think that it gives them a certain secure feeling to KNOW no grown up will ever be allowed to hurt them.

LookingForHealth
02-16-2003, 01:46 AM
Well, there are kids that are horribly behaved and your kids do not sound like that type. LUCKY for you then, but being a softy and giving them attention isn't always the answer. Sometimes, I'm 200% sweet and nice to the kids I nanny and I get kicked, slapped, and told to-- shut up/no/don't say that. A swat on the butt from the mother is not teaching them to fear adults...however spanks are not beatings and are not intended to belittle kids...you are mistaking a spank with child abuse/getting out the belt. I know as a kid I did not want to be spanked and if they know that's what will be used next, they quickly cut out the cruddy behavior. If they know that mom is a softy and will only baby them and be sweet to them, terribly behaved personalities will run the household. They think 'what do I have to fear????? Mom won't do anything to stop me.'

Yep, some kids' temperments are so calm and good, that a spank is never in the mother's mind, but there ARE terribly behaved (born with it) kids out there! Totally different.

maisy
02-25-2003, 01:58 AM
"I took her to a Halloween party with a few other children (most of them a little older than her) a few weeks ago. I was unable to sit down for nearly 3 hours because she was into EVERYTHING in my friend's house...the party was partially outside, after dark, and my daughter kept running off."

I think that this type/length of party is probably just too much for her to handle at this age. The next time this happens, stay 45 minutes, then say politely, "thanks so much for having us, but I think Susie has had enough for one night--and I want the other guests to be able to enjoy the party too." Then take her and go HOME.

I have a 26-month-old son who is difficult to take out in public--he has some delays, was totally non-verbal at 18 months. I know what his limits are and when he reaches them I take him home. With my daughter (now 7) I had several occasions where I had to leave a cart full of groceries because she was out of control. I just apologized to a clerk on the way out so they could put my food back, and went home! By the time she was 3 she was able to anticipate the sequence of events if she continued acting out and would change her behavior immediately. Twos are still learning this task.

This really won't last forever....I know it is frustrating and I always see families with 2-ish children out having a wonderful time and think, "why can't he be like that?" But I do still take him out even for short trips so he will slowly learn to socialize and behave appropriately in public. I just try not to overdo it for our sake and the sanity of the innocent people around us at the store/restaurant/etc! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/dizzy.gif

Calixte_Silas
02-25-2003, 06:52 PM
I completely agree with those who mentioned spanking. Corporal Punishment is NOT child abuse. A few swats on the behind is all a young child needs to learn the rules. It's not a permanant solution until they turn 18. However- a young child does not have the reasoning ability to understand a complex set of rules. And they sure don't understand 'grounding.'
A few spankings (yes, even in public) will set them straight.
The way I've seen kids behaving now, I would APPLAUD! a parent that I saw spanking their child in public. All I seem to see anymore is parents who warn their children 23 times and then just buy them something to quiet them down. Or they try to be diplomatic. Parenting is not a dimplomacy. Even when the child is a teenager.
Spank the child- just be reasonable.

[This message has been edited by Calixte_Silas (edited 02-25-2003).]

LookingForHealth
02-26-2003, 05:48 AM
I agree Calixte, I can totally relate. Nothing pushes my buttons more than an extremly rude, out of control, manipulating child (who screams, yells, kicks and talks back shouting). Mostly about 3 years old. You rarely see this in an 8 year old. At a very young age some situations just have to result in a spank. Anti-spankers what would you do to stop a 15 month old who is splashing in the tub, every night, causing the brand new home's floor to be soaked. Saying NO does NOT WORK at that age, and they need the bath so there is no pulling them out. A big problem with this 'correct way' to parent these days is that it isn't realistic at all...you can't reason with young kids most of the time.

Kimianne
04-03-2003, 10:57 AM
Here's an idea for those who do not believe in spanking- WIPE UP THE FLOOR!!

A 15 month old naturally splashes in a tub. They just do. Guess what they are playing and learning while doing it!



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Kimi

Irish Cream
04-04-2003, 12:40 AM
I believe in spanking and other forms of reasonable punishment. Maybe Dr. Spock and the others have what they feel is right but I can look out my front door when the grade school lets out and see kids swearing that would make a sailor blush. Smacking each other. Coming into my yard to do whatever they please. When I tell them to get out of my yard I get called everything but human. Sometimes I think it would be a great idea to be able to go back to the way it was. When parents were in control of their kids. When kids were taught (I'm not saying yours aren't)to respect each other and each others belongings.

I remember not swearing around my grandfather who raised me. After going to basic training and job training(AIT) I came home swearing simply cause I had picked it up listening to everyone else. We were talking about something and I swore (big time,lots of words). When he looked at me really mad I remember thinking that "oh crap I messed up" and I was 19 years old at the time.

LookingForHealth
04-04-2003, 02:41 AM
Oh gosh Kimi you did a search in my name and brought up this OLD thread!!

THE PARENTS FIND ALL THE TOWELS I USE TO WIPE UP THE FLOOR AND SAY 'DIDNT WE TELL YOU NO WATER ON THE FLOOR.' SO I WAS WRONG TO BE AGITATED WITH THE EXCESSIVE SPLASHING DONE? I NEVER EXPRESSED TO THE CHILD THAT I WAS MAD. HOW RETARDED IS THAT? A 16 MONTH OLD DOESN'T CARE WHAT I THINK. WHY WASTE TIME GETTING MAD IF SHE WON'T EVEN CARE OR UNDERSTAND? I GUESS, TO YOU, I AM WRONG FOR HAVING REAL HUMAN FEELINGS.

Kimianne
04-04-2003, 09:57 AM
Not worth it.

[This message has been edited by Kimianne (edited 04-04-2003).]

Heavnlyhart2
04-06-2008, 08:14 AM
Being out in public you have to set boudaries with your child just like you do at home. When your going grocery shopping give her a crayon and paper to doodle with if she sees something she wants but it isnt on your grocery list don't get it for her just to keep her quiet just tell her like talking to another adult "No, " and if she keeps throwing a temper tantrum let her know if she keeps it up that you ll take her out to the car just pick her up leave the cart where it is at and take her to the car and let her know when she settles down we will go back in it is alot of work but your setting the example you won't tolerate this kinda behavior out in public. your not being mean nor do you have to spank her if it is troublesome for you if she keeps up in the car let her know we will go home and you will take a nap etc.....good luck...





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