Anxiety Man
09-05-2003, 05:40 PM
(Hello--I'm new to this particular forum, and am posting for my wife who isn't the one who operates the computer. )
She's been having back problems for several years, to a minor degree, but much worse since April. Though we were rear-ended in a car accident, all Dr's say that didn't worsen her.
She has been to our regular GP, and a spine clinic. The Dr. at the clinic placed her in phys. therapy for about 5 weeks which has helped. Her symptoms are pain in the upper back, very painful "catches" that kick like a mule. The catches are what we cannot seem to rid her of.
She has R.A., osteopenia, and was once told by her R.A. Dr., she has some scoliosis. As a child, she had a very mild brush with polio, but no one has even suggested she might have post polio syndrome. The physical therapist measured one leg an inch shorter than the other, but her spine Dr. got one centimeter difference. She also suggested a wedge for her shoe.
After seeing the spine Dr. for a final visit the other day, she told her, she is over a fence. She doesn't know what to do, or how to further help her. She mentioned an MRI, but said to just talk it over for now, as they are expen$ive. No surprises there!
She is on Fosamax once weekly, has been prescribed Darvocet for pain, and skelaxin for spasms, which does little, if any good for her. She also takes Oscal 500+D 3x's daily, and Vitamin C 500, once daily.
As another poster experiences, as I noticed, my wife will have pain in her coccyx after lying down at night, and has to turn over on her side to alleviate it until her back gets "used to" being in bed. She has pain when getting up during the night, and again when she returns to bed. I forgot to say, but she is 58 years old.
We really don't know where to turn now. By our experiences and reading others here, it seems the back is still basically, a medical mystery to many Drs.
Thanks for letting me post, and we're open to any suggestions aside from just running from Dr. to Dr. and piling up bills, which we already have we can't pay now. But, to get her relief, we would do it.
Tony
Originally posted on "Back Problems" forum)
She's been having back problems for several years, to a minor degree, but much worse since April. Though we were rear-ended in a car accident, all Dr's say that didn't worsen her.
She has been to our regular GP, and a spine clinic. The Dr. at the clinic placed her in phys. therapy for about 5 weeks which has helped. Her symptoms are pain in the upper back, very painful "catches" that kick like a mule. The catches are what we cannot seem to rid her of.
She has R.A., osteopenia, and was once told by her R.A. Dr., she has some scoliosis. As a child, she had a very mild brush with polio, but no one has even suggested she might have post polio syndrome. The physical therapist measured one leg an inch shorter than the other, but her spine Dr. got one centimeter difference. She also suggested a wedge for her shoe.
After seeing the spine Dr. for a final visit the other day, she told her, she is over a fence. She doesn't know what to do, or how to further help her. She mentioned an MRI, but said to just talk it over for now, as they are expen$ive. No surprises there!
She is on Fosamax once weekly, has been prescribed Darvocet for pain, and skelaxin for spasms, which does little, if any good for her. She also takes Oscal 500+D 3x's daily, and Vitamin C 500, once daily.
As another poster experiences, as I noticed, my wife will have pain in her coccyx after lying down at night, and has to turn over on her side to alleviate it until her back gets "used to" being in bed. She has pain when getting up during the night, and again when she returns to bed. I forgot to say, but she is 58 years old.
We really don't know where to turn now. By our experiences and reading others here, it seems the back is still basically, a medical mystery to many Drs.
Thanks for letting me post, and we're open to any suggestions aside from just running from Dr. to Dr. and piling up bills, which we already have we can't pay now. But, to get her relief, we would do it.
Tony
Originally posted on "Back Problems" forum)
Sponsor
Anxiety Man
09-06-2003, 11:13 AM
Oh well. Thanks for reading it anyway. Guess she's an enigma!
bye :(
bye :(
peregrine
09-06-2003, 01:59 PM
Maybe there is some confusion as to what is the focus of your question. Has your wife had a Dexa Scan that revealed Osteoporosis? If so, what are the numbers? That would need to be known to determine the protocol, but 500 mg. Cal is not very much, I think most of us here take at least 1200,usually divided into 2 doses, as well as Magnesium, vit. D and Vit. K for absorption.
If, however, her problem is mainly muscular, how about glucosomine/chrondoiton as a supplement for the pain? How about a Chiropractor or Acupuncture?
Don't give up on us, just give us a little more information.
All the best!
Peregrine
If, however, her problem is mainly muscular, how about glucosomine/chrondoiton as a supplement for the pain? How about a Chiropractor or Acupuncture?
Don't give up on us, just give us a little more information.
All the best!
Peregrine
Anxiety Man
09-06-2003, 07:13 PM
Hello--Never heard of a Dexa scan. It apparently was revealed on standard X-rays. Her GP told her she had osteopenia after reading X-rays, even before a bone scan was ran later. The only things she takes and the dosages, are mentioned in my original post. Her GP didn't want her seeing a chiro due to possible fractures occuring during treatment. Adjustments can be rather rough.
We are just seeking answers as to why she continues to have pain, plus painful "catches" which are like a hard jolt, or mule kick. The pain and catches are in the middle of her back up pretty high between her shoulders. She says they "tear her into". The Dr. at the spine clinic was left stumped, basically, and only told us to talk over an MRI, which we know is an arm and a leg, expense. What got me is the spine Dr. saying there are no fractures at first, yet my wife's last visit to her, she says, "Maybe there's a fracture somewhere that is healing." Really confuses us also! I want to say, "Well, what is it! A fracture or NO fracture?!" As you can see, we face a frustrating situation. She's had those catches since about 1996, but then they were extremely mild, and only when she would lie down in bed. She seems to have not had many this afternoon which is good. It's a complicated thing, I know. I did the best I could to explain it. Thanks again,
Tony
We are just seeking answers as to why she continues to have pain, plus painful "catches" which are like a hard jolt, or mule kick. The pain and catches are in the middle of her back up pretty high between her shoulders. She says they "tear her into". The Dr. at the spine clinic was left stumped, basically, and only told us to talk over an MRI, which we know is an arm and a leg, expense. What got me is the spine Dr. saying there are no fractures at first, yet my wife's last visit to her, she says, "Maybe there's a fracture somewhere that is healing." Really confuses us also! I want to say, "Well, what is it! A fracture or NO fracture?!" As you can see, we face a frustrating situation. She's had those catches since about 1996, but then they were extremely mild, and only when she would lie down in bed. She seems to have not had many this afternoon which is good. It's a complicated thing, I know. I did the best I could to explain it. Thanks again,
Tony
peregrine
09-07-2003, 07:52 AM
Hi Tony,
Yes, it sounds as if an MRI would be helpful. I guess you do not have insurance? Our medical system is a tragedy and a travesty. I think that adequate medical care is a human right. I think there are some ways to receive one time benefits through both private and public organizations if you can show need. Perhaps you could explore that possibility. In the meantime, have you tried the product I mentioned - Glucosomine Chrondoiton? It helped me through many years of sciatica and chronic neck pain and I know that others have attested to its pain-relieving abilities as well? You can get it at an HFS or even, I believe, places like Walgreens,etc. I also keep a bottle of 800 mg. Ibuprofen on hand as a back up. I never touch it unless in dire need, but it always "does the trick". It is an Rx, of course, but I'm sure her doc would prescribe. At least these things might relieve the pain until you can get further diagnostic testing.
I'm pulling for you both as I know how frustrating undiagnosed ailments can be and worry and fear only add to the existing problem. I hope you get some clarity soon!
btw: You sound like a great husband!
Peregrine
[This message has been edited by peregrine (edited 09-07-2003).]
Yes, it sounds as if an MRI would be helpful. I guess you do not have insurance? Our medical system is a tragedy and a travesty. I think that adequate medical care is a human right. I think there are some ways to receive one time benefits through both private and public organizations if you can show need. Perhaps you could explore that possibility. In the meantime, have you tried the product I mentioned - Glucosomine Chrondoiton? It helped me through many years of sciatica and chronic neck pain and I know that others have attested to its pain-relieving abilities as well? You can get it at an HFS or even, I believe, places like Walgreens,etc. I also keep a bottle of 800 mg. Ibuprofen on hand as a back up. I never touch it unless in dire need, but it always "does the trick". It is an Rx, of course, but I'm sure her doc would prescribe. At least these things might relieve the pain until you can get further diagnostic testing.
I'm pulling for you both as I know how frustrating undiagnosed ailments can be and worry and fear only add to the existing problem. I hope you get some clarity soon!
btw: You sound like a great husband!
Peregrine
[This message has been edited by peregrine (edited 09-07-2003).]
bjg
09-07-2003, 12:34 PM
have any tests been done to make sure that your wifes pain between her shoulder blades is not heart related?
Anxiety Man
09-07-2003, 09:25 PM
Hello again,Peregrine. Well, it all just gets more complex. We were told of a lady at church who works for a chiro. We talked to her, and she told us to ask for a consultation visit, bring her X-rays, etc. My head is beginning to spin from all of this! :round: See? There I am now! :D
Negatory, we sure don't have med insurance, "P". You are so right about the med system being a joke. You're wealthy, you can be treated. You're not, you sink. Really "fair". I'm particularly angry at my wife's R.A. specialist. We got to owing him, but she needed a re-okay on her Prednisone. We made an appt. to go see him, and he acted a horse's rear and hit us with snide cracks about our debt! I wrote a local medical head about this, and he said I need to report him to the county medical society! I've not had time, but it's definitely still on the agenda! This particular "Dr." is the one who got her started on Prednisone, though it was the only thing that would get her RA under control. He's tossed the Hypocratic Oath in favor of $$$! Sorry, but I do get on a soapbox about this stuff. (Oh, by the way, he did re-okay the Pred.)
We would have to ask her GP about the glucosomine. I don't know if it would mix with all this other stuff she's taking or not. She rattles when she walks now like a pill box! :eek: She takes the Fosamax weekly "when" we can get it, also. I've heard glucosomine is good for joint problems.
At this writing, I don't know what we'll do. We're out money now we owe, and stand to be out more. Her GP told us no chiropractors! They could cause a fracture, BUT having a consultation-only would be safe, especially telling them what the GP has advised against.
Thanks for thinking me a great husband, "P". I try, I ain't perfect, but I give it my best shot.
:wave:Howdy, "bjg". No heart tests ran, but despite everyone saying this is a bone-muscular problem, we can tell her GP to check things out. Her heart has always checked good, and she keeps her b.p. in check with guanfacine and Monopril.
See ya'll later,
T.
Negatory, we sure don't have med insurance, "P". You are so right about the med system being a joke. You're wealthy, you can be treated. You're not, you sink. Really "fair". I'm particularly angry at my wife's R.A. specialist. We got to owing him, but she needed a re-okay on her Prednisone. We made an appt. to go see him, and he acted a horse's rear and hit us with snide cracks about our debt! I wrote a local medical head about this, and he said I need to report him to the county medical society! I've not had time, but it's definitely still on the agenda! This particular "Dr." is the one who got her started on Prednisone, though it was the only thing that would get her RA under control. He's tossed the Hypocratic Oath in favor of $$$! Sorry, but I do get on a soapbox about this stuff. (Oh, by the way, he did re-okay the Pred.)
We would have to ask her GP about the glucosomine. I don't know if it would mix with all this other stuff she's taking or not. She rattles when she walks now like a pill box! :eek: She takes the Fosamax weekly "when" we can get it, also. I've heard glucosomine is good for joint problems.
At this writing, I don't know what we'll do. We're out money now we owe, and stand to be out more. Her GP told us no chiropractors! They could cause a fracture, BUT having a consultation-only would be safe, especially telling them what the GP has advised against.
Thanks for thinking me a great husband, "P". I try, I ain't perfect, but I give it my best shot.
:wave:Howdy, "bjg". No heart tests ran, but despite everyone saying this is a bone-muscular problem, we can tell her GP to check things out. Her heart has always checked good, and she keeps her b.p. in check with guanfacine and Monopril.
See ya'll later,
T.
pippismom
09-10-2003, 11:58 AM
I would think it is time to maybe get your wife on disablity. You will still have problems dealing with docs....but the costs would certainly be less. I have a friend that still manages to work....yet is on disabilty for her fibromyolgia.
On the other side of the coin....I have insurance.....but the local docs are all in cohoots with them. I have to "beg" for any and all tests. After a hit and run accident an emergency room doc told me I had to insist on some testing as he saw my bones being " so sheer" on a simple xray. I got my test after going to two different docs....then was precribed fosamax with very little info of my test results OR the new med. When I asked about the new med and taking with my other meds....I was told that was not their specialty.....Ouch!!!!
After checking on my own and taking it for a few days I realized they were NOT compatible!
I need to find a reliable doc that will look at the "big picture" me being the "specialty"....thats the way it should be.....
On the other side of the coin....I have insurance.....but the local docs are all in cohoots with them. I have to "beg" for any and all tests. After a hit and run accident an emergency room doc told me I had to insist on some testing as he saw my bones being " so sheer" on a simple xray. I got my test after going to two different docs....then was precribed fosamax with very little info of my test results OR the new med. When I asked about the new med and taking with my other meds....I was told that was not their specialty.....Ouch!!!!
After checking on my own and taking it for a few days I realized they were NOT compatible!
I need to find a reliable doc that will look at the "big picture" me being the "specialty"....thats the way it should be.....
Anxiety Man
09-10-2003, 09:30 PM
Hello, pippismom--Sorry it's taken me so long to respond. Been a jungle-zoo the past few days! ;)
We've definitely thought about disability for her. We did find out from my disability advocate, that combined, we would only get around $800.00/mo., but to save on both our medical, instead of just mine, would be worth that. That's so ratty that you have to beg for those tests! Always a roach in the soup, regarding that type thing.
We saw a health segment on the 10:00 Eye WITLESS News last night regarding the use of Botox for back and neck pain, plus for migraines. It was so impressive, my wife left a note at the Spine Clinic today asking the Dr. what she thought about Botox. This "Dr." just threw up her hands on my wife, and didn't even offer any kind of shot! Reminds me of what you just replied about! Definitely "inhales". :mad: I feel my wife has been given a bit of a runaround, tho the physical therapy she took for 3 weeks, was beneficial.
Sure hope things improve for you fast, "mom". People in pain deserve better!
We've definitely thought about disability for her. We did find out from my disability advocate, that combined, we would only get around $800.00/mo., but to save on both our medical, instead of just mine, would be worth that. That's so ratty that you have to beg for those tests! Always a roach in the soup, regarding that type thing.
We saw a health segment on the 10:00 Eye WITLESS News last night regarding the use of Botox for back and neck pain, plus for migraines. It was so impressive, my wife left a note at the Spine Clinic today asking the Dr. what she thought about Botox. This "Dr." just threw up her hands on my wife, and didn't even offer any kind of shot! Reminds me of what you just replied about! Definitely "inhales". :mad: I feel my wife has been given a bit of a runaround, tho the physical therapy she took for 3 weeks, was beneficial.
Sure hope things improve for you fast, "mom". People in pain deserve better!
USAFMOM
09-10-2003, 10:38 PM
Just a few tidbit thoughts....the fact that the physical therapy helped could be a clue too that a lot of the pain can be from muscular strain/sprain. Problem is, I know how expensive therapy is. :( It doesn't seem likely that the "catches" in her back would be from the RA or even post polio syndrome, and not even osteopenia. Possibly degenerative arthritis, maybe; small compression fracture(s), possibly. The whole scenario sounds very mechanical to me. I've worked for neurologists and physical medicine and rehab physicians for a long time now, and this picture is all too familiar. The glucosamine and chondroitin will certainly help, and I've never heard of any contraindications to any other Rx meds. Heat to the back, massage, massage, and more massage, stretching exercises as tolerated, walking as tolerated, anti-inflammatories such as ibuprofen over-the-counter or naproxen sodium over-the-counter, barring any liver or kidney problems.
I, too, get painful catches in the middle of my back just by moving in a certain position, enough to cause a loud groan and a grimace on my face. I'm still having mine investigated through x-rays, but I've started on chondroitin and glucosamine, regular ibuprofen, heat, and stretching, and with time mine has seemed to ease up a bit. Now and then it flares. It almost seems like a severe sprain to the middle back. I'm also suspecting compression fractures of the thoracic spine, which I will find out for sure about in a couple of weeks from the endocrinologist doctor.
Degenerative disk disease can also cause severe pain of the spine. An x-ray would show the subluxed vertebrae, and an MRI would show the thinning disk. I certainly understand your frustration. I know this is very little to offer, but I hope it helps nevertheless. Keep us informed. :)
I, too, get painful catches in the middle of my back just by moving in a certain position, enough to cause a loud groan and a grimace on my face. I'm still having mine investigated through x-rays, but I've started on chondroitin and glucosamine, regular ibuprofen, heat, and stretching, and with time mine has seemed to ease up a bit. Now and then it flares. It almost seems like a severe sprain to the middle back. I'm also suspecting compression fractures of the thoracic spine, which I will find out for sure about in a couple of weeks from the endocrinologist doctor.
Degenerative disk disease can also cause severe pain of the spine. An x-ray would show the subluxed vertebrae, and an MRI would show the thinning disk. I certainly understand your frustration. I know this is very little to offer, but I hope it helps nevertheless. Keep us informed. :)
Anxiety Man
09-11-2003, 12:18 PM
:wave:Howdy, USAFMom! We are learning so much from you guys! Thanks for the reply!
I'm beginning to think that maybe we should shoot for the MRI, and see if it could be paid out. There could be something sneaking in the back door that her X-rays and bone scan failed to show.
That is good about the glucosamine and chondroitin being compatible with other stuff. Her RA doc did, however, tell her not to take any other anti-inflammatories with the Prednisone she takes.
We're sure sorry to hear that you suffer from those catches too. Barb's hits her anywhere, any time, even in sleep, at it's worst! She doesn't have to be in any particular position. Reminds me of a nerve spasm, muscle, etc. Overall, I think she is some better, maybe due to the few doses of Fosamax she's had. She's not perfect, but we're working on that too.
You could sure have it on the head about those being compression fractures, "Mom". It could be the X-rays nor bone scan picked any up. An MRI may still be needed.
We're curious about the endocrinologist for these problems. How do they help? Ol' dummy here is still learning. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/dizzy.gif
You have offered us MUCH, USAFMom, and we do appreciate the valuable info! Having worked for all those doctors, your input is very valid and helpful to us! Thanks again so much, and hope you get to doing much better too.
Tony :)
I'm beginning to think that maybe we should shoot for the MRI, and see if it could be paid out. There could be something sneaking in the back door that her X-rays and bone scan failed to show.
That is good about the glucosamine and chondroitin being compatible with other stuff. Her RA doc did, however, tell her not to take any other anti-inflammatories with the Prednisone she takes.
We're sure sorry to hear that you suffer from those catches too. Barb's hits her anywhere, any time, even in sleep, at it's worst! She doesn't have to be in any particular position. Reminds me of a nerve spasm, muscle, etc. Overall, I think she is some better, maybe due to the few doses of Fosamax she's had. She's not perfect, but we're working on that too.
You could sure have it on the head about those being compression fractures, "Mom". It could be the X-rays nor bone scan picked any up. An MRI may still be needed.
We're curious about the endocrinologist for these problems. How do they help? Ol' dummy here is still learning. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/dizzy.gif
You have offered us MUCH, USAFMom, and we do appreciate the valuable info! Having worked for all those doctors, your input is very valid and helpful to us! Thanks again so much, and hope you get to doing much better too.
Tony :)
USAFMOM
09-11-2003, 09:55 PM
Hi A-man. The "catches" at nighttime can possibly simply be from the compromising positions we sleep in at night causing severe muscle spasm--no different than waking up with a bad back ache, just a thought.
I'm guessing the few doses of Fosamax has no bearing on the back pain improving. It is not a drug used for improvement of short-term pain conditions. My doctor explained that it corrects the cycle our bones go through of sloughing bone and building bone, when our bones are sloughing off more than they are building, thus this medicine can help rebuild bone by correcting the unbalanced cycle.
Normally plain x-rays will show compression fractures, but I cannot say that this is for certain all the time.
My doctor had referred me to an endocrinologist to get a second opinion on my osteopenia, and whether or not I needed Fosamax. The endocrinologist is a specialist in this area as well as with glandular and hormonal diseases such as thyroid disorders, diabetes, etc. etc. Hopes this helps! :)
I'm guessing the few doses of Fosamax has no bearing on the back pain improving. It is not a drug used for improvement of short-term pain conditions. My doctor explained that it corrects the cycle our bones go through of sloughing bone and building bone, when our bones are sloughing off more than they are building, thus this medicine can help rebuild bone by correcting the unbalanced cycle.
Normally plain x-rays will show compression fractures, but I cannot say that this is for certain all the time.
My doctor had referred me to an endocrinologist to get a second opinion on my osteopenia, and whether or not I needed Fosamax. The endocrinologist is a specialist in this area as well as with glandular and hormonal diseases such as thyroid disorders, diabetes, etc. etc. Hopes this helps! :)
Anxiety Man
09-21-2003, 09:56 PM
Hello, Folks--It's been a few days since I was in. Just an update going here. Thanks, USAFMOM. We will look into the endocrine route also!
The painful catches my wife has, continue, whether up, sitting, lying, whatever. She found out that Botox would be 600 clams. No go there. The latest ray of hope or just wondering about this also, is a lady told her that she had the same thing and that ultrasound did wonders for her. I wonder if anyone has ever heard of this?
Thanks--
Tony
The painful catches my wife has, continue, whether up, sitting, lying, whatever. She found out that Botox would be 600 clams. No go there. The latest ray of hope or just wondering about this also, is a lady told her that she had the same thing and that ultrasound did wonders for her. I wonder if anyone has ever heard of this?
Thanks--
Tony
USAFMOM
09-23-2003, 07:19 AM
Sure, Tony. Ultrasound is simply another physical therapy modality used to reach the deep muscle tissue to help stimulate and relax the muscle. Could work very well for back pain. I've had it many times in the past, even as a child for severe back pain. Highly recommended.
Anxiety Man
09-23-2003, 09:31 PM
For the third time, I'll try to post.
Thanks so much, USAFMom, for that great news. :bouncing:
We are so happy to know this would help Barb.
She knows a lady who works in a chiro office, but we don't know if they offer this or not. She will find out from her. Her gp didn't want her getting adusted, but the ultrasound would be a wonderful thing.
Thanks again, so much! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/t_up.gif
Tony
Thanks so much, USAFMom, for that great news. :bouncing:
We are so happy to know this would help Barb.
She knows a lady who works in a chiro office, but we don't know if they offer this or not. She will find out from her. Her gp didn't want her getting adusted, but the ultrasound would be a wonderful thing.
Thanks again, so much! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/t_up.gif
Tony