OppOnn
06-22-2003, 04:31 PM
Someone sent me this today. Thought it interesting.
TAKE HEED !!!!
This is really an eye opener!
We all know that water is important but I've never seen it written down like this before.
WATER
1. 75% of Americans are chronically dehydrated. (Likely applies to half world population.)
2. In 37% of Americans, the thirst mechanism is so weak that it is often mistaken for hunger.
3. Even MILD dehydration will slow down one's metabolism as much as 3%.
4. One glass of water will shut down midnight hunger pangs for almost 100% of the dieters studied in a University of Washington study.
5. Lack of water, the #1 trigger of daytime fatigue.
6. Preliminary research indicates that 8-10 glasses of water a day could significantly ease back and joint pain for up to 80% of sufferers.
7. A mere 2% drop in body water can trigger fuzzy short-term memory, trouble with basic math, and difficulty focusing on the computer screen or
on a printed page.
8. Drinking 5 glasses of water daily decreases the risk of colon cancer by 45%, plus it can slash the risk of breast cancer by 79%, and one is 50% less
likely to develop bladder cancer. Are you drinking the amount of water you should every day?
COKE
1. In many states (in the USA) the highway patrol carries two gallons of Coke in the trunk to remove blood from the highway after a car accident.
2. You can put a T-bone steak in a bowl of coke and it will be gone in two days.
3. To clean a toilet: Pour a can of Coca-Cola into the toilet bowl and let the "real thing" sit for one hour, then flush clean. The citric acid in Coke removes stains from vitreous china.
4. To remove rust spots from chrome car bumpers: Rub the bumper with a rumpled-up piece of Reynolds Wrap aluminum foil dipped in Coca-Cola.
5. To clean corrosion from car battery terminals: Pour a can of Coca-Cola over the terminals to bubble away the corrosion.
6. To loosen a rusted bolt: Applying a cloth soaked in Coca-Cola to the rusted bolt for several minutes.
7. To bake a moist ham: Empty a can of Coca-Cola into the baking pan, wrap the ham in aluminum foil, and bake. Thirty minutes before the ham is
finished, remove the foil, allowing the drippings to mix with the Coke for sumptuous brown gravy.
8. To remove grease from clothes: Empty a can of coke into a load of greasy clothes, add detergent, and run through a regular cycle. The Coca-Cola will
help loosen grease stains. It will also clean road haze from your windshield.
FOR YOUR INFORMATION:
1. The active ingredient in Coke is phosphoric acid. Its pH is 2.8. It will dissolve a nail in about four days. Phosphoric acid also leaches calcium
from bones and is a major contributor to the rising increase in osteoporosis.
2. To carry Coca-Cola syrup (the concentrate) the commercial truck must use the Hazardous Material place cards reserved for highly corrosive materials.
3. The distributors of coke have been using it to clean the engines of their trucks for about 20 years!
Now the question is, would YOU like a glass of water or coke?
O
TAKE HEED !!!!
This is really an eye opener!
We all know that water is important but I've never seen it written down like this before.
WATER
1. 75% of Americans are chronically dehydrated. (Likely applies to half world population.)
2. In 37% of Americans, the thirst mechanism is so weak that it is often mistaken for hunger.
3. Even MILD dehydration will slow down one's metabolism as much as 3%.
4. One glass of water will shut down midnight hunger pangs for almost 100% of the dieters studied in a University of Washington study.
5. Lack of water, the #1 trigger of daytime fatigue.
6. Preliminary research indicates that 8-10 glasses of water a day could significantly ease back and joint pain for up to 80% of sufferers.
7. A mere 2% drop in body water can trigger fuzzy short-term memory, trouble with basic math, and difficulty focusing on the computer screen or
on a printed page.
8. Drinking 5 glasses of water daily decreases the risk of colon cancer by 45%, plus it can slash the risk of breast cancer by 79%, and one is 50% less
likely to develop bladder cancer. Are you drinking the amount of water you should every day?
COKE
1. In many states (in the USA) the highway patrol carries two gallons of Coke in the trunk to remove blood from the highway after a car accident.
2. You can put a T-bone steak in a bowl of coke and it will be gone in two days.
3. To clean a toilet: Pour a can of Coca-Cola into the toilet bowl and let the "real thing" sit for one hour, then flush clean. The citric acid in Coke removes stains from vitreous china.
4. To remove rust spots from chrome car bumpers: Rub the bumper with a rumpled-up piece of Reynolds Wrap aluminum foil dipped in Coca-Cola.
5. To clean corrosion from car battery terminals: Pour a can of Coca-Cola over the terminals to bubble away the corrosion.
6. To loosen a rusted bolt: Applying a cloth soaked in Coca-Cola to the rusted bolt for several minutes.
7. To bake a moist ham: Empty a can of Coca-Cola into the baking pan, wrap the ham in aluminum foil, and bake. Thirty minutes before the ham is
finished, remove the foil, allowing the drippings to mix with the Coke for sumptuous brown gravy.
8. To remove grease from clothes: Empty a can of coke into a load of greasy clothes, add detergent, and run through a regular cycle. The Coca-Cola will
help loosen grease stains. It will also clean road haze from your windshield.
FOR YOUR INFORMATION:
1. The active ingredient in Coke is phosphoric acid. Its pH is 2.8. It will dissolve a nail in about four days. Phosphoric acid also leaches calcium
from bones and is a major contributor to the rising increase in osteoporosis.
2. To carry Coca-Cola syrup (the concentrate) the commercial truck must use the Hazardous Material place cards reserved for highly corrosive materials.
3. The distributors of coke have been using it to clean the engines of their trucks for about 20 years!
Now the question is, would YOU like a glass of water or coke?
O
Sponsor
Cheryl Ann
06-22-2003, 11:15 PM
Hi, I like your post, but I have to disagree with number 6. I have been drinking more water than the 8-10 glasses per day for many years and my osteoarthritis is worse and not better. Wish number 6 was right, it sure would be nice. I do know coke has some very bad chemicals, so I enjoy the post.
peregrine
06-23-2003, 08:09 AM
Opp,
Yikes!
If that information doesn't turn coke drinkers on their heels I don't know what will!
I remember long ago a similar test was tried putting horse's teeth (a dead horse)in coke. The teeth dissolved in something like 2 days!
P
Yikes!
If that information doesn't turn coke drinkers on their heels I don't know what will!
I remember long ago a similar test was tried putting horse's teeth (a dead horse)in coke. The teeth dissolved in something like 2 days!
P
OppOnn
06-23-2003, 11:33 AM
C. It says water helps 80% of sufferers so I guess you are in the 20%.
I don't drink enough water. I think I am doing myself harm not doing so. For many reasons. Can't drink this, can't drink that because of my Crohn's and water is so boring on its own. I have to seriously address this problem, I know I do. Anything with sugar or substitutes in it or juices or gassy no good to me.
What's left?!! I just started on green tea. Maybe I can ice that?!!
P. Loved the horse's teeth story. A nice laugh to start the day. Thanks.
O
I don't drink enough water. I think I am doing myself harm not doing so. For many reasons. Can't drink this, can't drink that because of my Crohn's and water is so boring on its own. I have to seriously address this problem, I know I do. Anything with sugar or substitutes in it or juices or gassy no good to me.
What's left?!! I just started on green tea. Maybe I can ice that?!!
P. Loved the horse's teeth story. A nice laugh to start the day. Thanks.
O
Kilzok
06-30-2003, 10:55 PM
Hi, your thread about water and osteoporosis is very interesting so I thought that I'd throw in a little info that I have found out about. It seems that most if not all municipal water supplies inject phosphorus into the water to prevent corrosion of the pipes. As phosphorus is detremental to bone this may be something to consider. I have'nt been able to find any studies on the subject. From my own experience: I was on fosamax and was making progress. I then switched to Actonel as I had read that it had less possibility of gastric problems. At the same time my community connected to city water. I had been taking my pills with bottled water[Culligan}. After a year on Actonel an city water
my bone density had decreased. I believe that it was caused by the phosphorus in the city water.
my bone density had decreased. I believe that it was caused by the phosphorus in the city water.
Kilzok
06-30-2003, 10:56 PM
Hi, your thread about water and osteoporosis is very interesting so I thought that I'd throw in a little info that I have found out about. It seems that most if not all municipal water supplies inject phosphorus into the water to prevent corrosion of the pipes. As phosphorus is detremental to bone this may be something to consider. I have'nt been able to find any studies on the subject. From my own experience: I was on fosamax and was making progress. I then switched to Actonel as I had read that it had less possibility of gastric problems. At the same time my community connected to city water. I had been taking my pills with bottled water[Culligan}. After a year on Actonel an city water
my bone density had decreased. I believe that it was caused by the phosphorus in the city water.
my bone density had decreased. I believe that it was caused by the phosphorus in the city water.
OppOnn
07-01-2003, 11:55 AM
Just to be clear, you think taking the bottled water and Actonel helped your bones because the phospherous
in the water supply is bad for bones. Right?
We have a water filter attached to our water so, hopefully, I am not getting the phospherous?!
Also have a filter on our shower..
Interesting info. But do you think it is the Actonel?
No stomach problems withe the Actonel? No side fx?
How much did you decrease? You went from what to what? Very interested.
O
in the water supply is bad for bones. Right?
We have a water filter attached to our water so, hopefully, I am not getting the phospherous?!
Also have a filter on our shower..
Interesting info. But do you think it is the Actonel?
No stomach problems withe the Actonel? No side fx?
How much did you decrease? You went from what to what? Very interested.
O
Minshe
07-20-2003, 03:46 AM
I thought it might be important that you all know that the information about Coke is an Urban Legend--meaning that most of it is not true.
Here is a page where you can go to check out this information--there are also many more topics available.
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/acid.asp
Water is always a good choice to drink--but I would hate to think that someone would read that information about coke-- that has been a long time coke drinker-- and then be worried about their coke usage for these reasons.
I do not know how accurate the information on water is.
Take Care,
Minshe
Here is a page where you can go to check out this information--there are also many more topics available.
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/acid.asp
Water is always a good choice to drink--but I would hate to think that someone would read that information about coke-- that has been a long time coke drinker-- and then be worried about their coke usage for these reasons.
I do not know how accurate the information on water is.
Take Care,
Minshe
peregrine
07-20-2003, 07:48 AM
Perhaps there are some inaccuracies being put forth, but I think it is obvious that coke, especially diet coke, which contains so many synthetic products, is not good for our system.
Prema
Prema
OppOnn
07-20-2003, 06:28 PM
Coke is probably not good for people with osteoporosis, whatever Urban Legend says. Some statements may be exagerrated, but many of the statements have been around for over 40 years. Maybe more. That's a long time. Think about it.
Coke is also no good for people with IBS or IBD or GERD (reflux)...
Still better, safer with water. Good filtered or mineral water, that is, not just plain old tap water.
O
Coke is also no good for people with IBS or IBD or GERD (reflux)...
Still better, safer with water. Good filtered or mineral water, that is, not just plain old tap water.
O
Minshe
07-20-2003, 07:26 PM
I think much of this information is not based on scientific evidence or studies, but just repeated information. I did several searches and any medical studies I could find on the issue suggested that carbonation in soft drinks did not impact bone desity. What is a problem is that people tend to drink soda instead of a calcium rich drink such as milk--thus depriving themselves of a much needed calcium supply.
I looked at many articles and studies, but I thought the following best summed up the information.
"Q: I recently read an article that advised: "Avoid soft drinks; their phosphoric acid may promote calcium loss." Is this true? I do have osteoporosis and take calcium as well as Miacalcin. However, I also usually drink a glass of diet cola every day. According to the bottle, it contains aspartame (whatever that is) and it reads, "Phenylketonurics, contains Phenylalanine." Do you consider soft drinks containing the above chemicals to be harmful and to cause calcium loss?
A: I also have heard several times that carbonated drinks are not good for your bone because of the phosphorus. Two different reasons have been given: 1) phosphorus binds to the calcium in your stomach and prevents absorption of the calcium into your blood, and 2) high phosphorus in your blood draws calcium out of your bones. When I searched recent medical articles and textbooks (for hours!), I could find nothing supporting this.
Caffeine does decrease bone mass and increase risk of hip fracture. In a study of 9,615 women over age 65, those who drank 190 mg a day of caffeine had a 20% to 30% increased risk of hip fracture. Sodas have about 40 mg of caffeine per can and brewed coffee about 100 mg per cup.
Aspartame (Nutrasweet) is a sugar substitute that contains phenylalanine. It has no harmful effect on bones.
Article Created: 2000-05-30
Article Updated: 2000-06-05
Dr. Rebekah Wang-Cheng is a former Professor of Medicine at the Medical College of Wisconsin. Her medical advice column, which answers health-related questions from readers, also appeared in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. "
© 2003 Medical College of Wisconsin
The bigger culprit here appears to be caffine which means that items such as caffinated coffee, tea, and food items such as chocolate should also be cause for concern.
I just think it is important that we look for facts, not just accept something we have heard somewhere as a basis for the actions we take in determing how we treat our osteoporosis.
Take Care,
Minshe
I looked at many articles and studies, but I thought the following best summed up the information.
"Q: I recently read an article that advised: "Avoid soft drinks; their phosphoric acid may promote calcium loss." Is this true? I do have osteoporosis and take calcium as well as Miacalcin. However, I also usually drink a glass of diet cola every day. According to the bottle, it contains aspartame (whatever that is) and it reads, "Phenylketonurics, contains Phenylalanine." Do you consider soft drinks containing the above chemicals to be harmful and to cause calcium loss?
A: I also have heard several times that carbonated drinks are not good for your bone because of the phosphorus. Two different reasons have been given: 1) phosphorus binds to the calcium in your stomach and prevents absorption of the calcium into your blood, and 2) high phosphorus in your blood draws calcium out of your bones. When I searched recent medical articles and textbooks (for hours!), I could find nothing supporting this.
Caffeine does decrease bone mass and increase risk of hip fracture. In a study of 9,615 women over age 65, those who drank 190 mg a day of caffeine had a 20% to 30% increased risk of hip fracture. Sodas have about 40 mg of caffeine per can and brewed coffee about 100 mg per cup.
Aspartame (Nutrasweet) is a sugar substitute that contains phenylalanine. It has no harmful effect on bones.
Article Created: 2000-05-30
Article Updated: 2000-06-05
Dr. Rebekah Wang-Cheng is a former Professor of Medicine at the Medical College of Wisconsin. Her medical advice column, which answers health-related questions from readers, also appeared in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. "
© 2003 Medical College of Wisconsin
The bigger culprit here appears to be caffine which means that items such as caffinated coffee, tea, and food items such as chocolate should also be cause for concern.
I just think it is important that we look for facts, not just accept something we have heard somewhere as a basis for the actions we take in determing how we treat our osteoporosis.
Take Care,
Minshe
peregrine
07-21-2003, 07:48 AM
Minshe,
Do you consider these "facts" because they come from an MD? That would probably be my last source of comfort in terms of sleuthing out accurate information. Look at the "supposedly" fact-based side effect read-out for Actonel or Fosamax. Many of the terrifying symptoms people on this board are reporting are not even listed there! Then too, how much accurate information do we get from doctors in their office about taking these potions? My experience, next to none.
Regarding soft drinks, Aspartame alone would be good reason, in my mind, not to drink them. Have you ever done a search on Aspartame and other synthetic sweetners? Now "that" is frightening!
Prema
Do you consider these "facts" because they come from an MD? That would probably be my last source of comfort in terms of sleuthing out accurate information. Look at the "supposedly" fact-based side effect read-out for Actonel or Fosamax. Many of the terrifying symptoms people on this board are reporting are not even listed there! Then too, how much accurate information do we get from doctors in their office about taking these potions? My experience, next to none.
Regarding soft drinks, Aspartame alone would be good reason, in my mind, not to drink them. Have you ever done a search on Aspartame and other synthetic sweetners? Now "that" is frightening!
Prema
bjg
07-21-2003, 08:09 AM
this is what i know to be true at least for me
my average post menopausal bone loss is approx 3% a yr
the year i have been on evista it dropped to 1 %
the year i drank diet coke my bone loss was 7 %
my average post menopausal bone loss is approx 3% a yr
the year i have been on evista it dropped to 1 %
the year i drank diet coke my bone loss was 7 %
Minshe
07-21-2003, 10:49 AM
I consider these facts because the information is the result of scientific studies--not one doctor's opinion. A single study may not always provide accurate results, but when you have multiple studies that have been done in controlled situations the results should be accurate. The studies have been done by many different institutions in many different locales.
While I belive it is important to learn from each other's experiences--I do not think you can take what someone reports as their experience as the way it is.
There could be many reasons a person experiences some adverse reaction. I have taken Actonel for about eight months and not had any adverse reactions--does that mean no one will have adverse reactions--of course not.
I am getting off subject here. My point is that to look at something like soda and deem it "the devil" oversimplifies the issue. If you read my last post it does point to the fact that caffeine consumption--not carbonation or artificial sweetners are the real culprit in adding to bone loss. Also the fact that people are drinking soda INSTEAD of a calcium rich beverage. Therefore people need to look at their caffeine consumption in all of it's many forms not just in soda.
It seems potentially harmful to let people on the forum assume that a soft drink is causing them problems when it could actually be the caffeine in any product that is the problem.
It worries me that many people may base their health care decisions on inaccurate information--such as the "facts" that were listed about coke in this post. Those "facts" are inaccurate. It is my hope that people will take the time to research these kind of statements for themselves and not just accept this kind of information as fact.
Take Care,
Minshe
While I belive it is important to learn from each other's experiences--I do not think you can take what someone reports as their experience as the way it is.
There could be many reasons a person experiences some adverse reaction. I have taken Actonel for about eight months and not had any adverse reactions--does that mean no one will have adverse reactions--of course not.
I am getting off subject here. My point is that to look at something like soda and deem it "the devil" oversimplifies the issue. If you read my last post it does point to the fact that caffeine consumption--not carbonation or artificial sweetners are the real culprit in adding to bone loss. Also the fact that people are drinking soda INSTEAD of a calcium rich beverage. Therefore people need to look at their caffeine consumption in all of it's many forms not just in soda.
It seems potentially harmful to let people on the forum assume that a soft drink is causing them problems when it could actually be the caffeine in any product that is the problem.
It worries me that many people may base their health care decisions on inaccurate information--such as the "facts" that were listed about coke in this post. Those "facts" are inaccurate. It is my hope that people will take the time to research these kind of statements for themselves and not just accept this kind of information as fact.
Take Care,
Minshe
peregrine
07-21-2003, 12:39 PM
Minshe,
Actually, that something is a "scientific study" does not necessarily carry a lot of weight with me. HRT was based on a scientific study. Now those facts are "flying out the window". But we are all different and there is room for our differences to be voiced. I happen to learn a great deal from other people's experiences, as well as my own research and experience.
I am glad to hear that you are having good results from using Actonel and I hope that you continue to do so.
All the best,
Prema
Actually, that something is a "scientific study" does not necessarily carry a lot of weight with me. HRT was based on a scientific study. Now those facts are "flying out the window". But we are all different and there is room for our differences to be voiced. I happen to learn a great deal from other people's experiences, as well as my own research and experience.
I am glad to hear that you are having good results from using Actonel and I hope that you continue to do so.
All the best,
Prema
OppOnn
07-21-2003, 05:46 PM
I must agree with Peregrene.
It has been my experience that people trust conventional medicine and, if they only trust that,
with all it's so-called studies (like the HRT one)
then that's what they believe. To each his own.
I believe in alternative/complimentary options if I possibly can and prefer the less short and long term side fx approach and my whole body, short and long term, being taken into account, and I don't want to be treated just for one disease, at the expense of others.
"caffeine consumption--not carbonation or artificial sweetners" That's what was said by Minsne. Well, they are all pretty bad for Osteo, as is Aspartane, best to run away from that. Which is why I run away from coke,
for all the reasons above, and that counts diet coke too.
But I wish everyone well with their osteo.
Whatever the treatments.
O
It has been my experience that people trust conventional medicine and, if they only trust that,
with all it's so-called studies (like the HRT one)
then that's what they believe. To each his own.
I believe in alternative/complimentary options if I possibly can and prefer the less short and long term side fx approach and my whole body, short and long term, being taken into account, and I don't want to be treated just for one disease, at the expense of others.
"caffeine consumption--not carbonation or artificial sweetners" That's what was said by Minsne. Well, they are all pretty bad for Osteo, as is Aspartane, best to run away from that. Which is why I run away from coke,
for all the reasons above, and that counts diet coke too.
But I wish everyone well with their osteo.
Whatever the treatments.
O
LadyKatherine
09-17-2003, 02:33 AM
Ok..I see the "contraversy" in blaming coke for calcium and phosphorus loss..people should definitely exercise their right to free speech and providing educated opinions..
What is important to add here..that no one seemd to touch on..Coke/Pepsi/Cola drinks regular or diet contain caffeine..unless you specifically opt for the non-caffeine choice. Anyway, the point is that perhaps it is the caffeine in the cola drink that is responsible for deminerilaztion of our bones leading to osteoporosis!!
Also, it has been researched and reported in the Journal of Nutrional Therapies and the International Journal of Integrated Therapy..that cola drinks do contribute to bone demineralization and elevate serum phosphorous levels. However, this study was conducted on women that reportedly drank 4 cans of cola beverage per day for a good part of their lives. This study was conducted by Naturopaths and homeopaths..and these Journals are not recognized by the TraditionalMedical establishment..there no recognition or attention has been given to their findings. It is the blatant arrogance of allopathic medicine and its predjudice against other credentialled complementary/alternative medical practioners that prevents relevant and significant information..such as the effect of drinking cola drinks on bone density...from reaching the general public even via seacrh engines on the web! For instance, alternative practioners have known that folic acid reduced the risk of neural tube defects for over 40 years before it make main stream! I am getting off the point..
By the way, when I was a girl scout (25 years ago)we put dirty corroaded pennies in coke over night... the result was an almost brand new shiny penny when we fished them out and rinsed them under water the following day! That is a fact..and not an urban legend!
What is important to add here..that no one seemd to touch on..Coke/Pepsi/Cola drinks regular or diet contain caffeine..unless you specifically opt for the non-caffeine choice. Anyway, the point is that perhaps it is the caffeine in the cola drink that is responsible for deminerilaztion of our bones leading to osteoporosis!!
Also, it has been researched and reported in the Journal of Nutrional Therapies and the International Journal of Integrated Therapy..that cola drinks do contribute to bone demineralization and elevate serum phosphorous levels. However, this study was conducted on women that reportedly drank 4 cans of cola beverage per day for a good part of their lives. This study was conducted by Naturopaths and homeopaths..and these Journals are not recognized by the TraditionalMedical establishment..there no recognition or attention has been given to their findings. It is the blatant arrogance of allopathic medicine and its predjudice against other credentialled complementary/alternative medical practioners that prevents relevant and significant information..such as the effect of drinking cola drinks on bone density...from reaching the general public even via seacrh engines on the web! For instance, alternative practioners have known that folic acid reduced the risk of neural tube defects for over 40 years before it make main stream! I am getting off the point..
By the way, when I was a girl scout (25 years ago)we put dirty corroaded pennies in coke over night... the result was an almost brand new shiny penny when we fished them out and rinsed them under water the following day! That is a fact..and not an urban legend!
OppOnn
09-17-2003, 11:58 AM
Amen, on coke and pepsi, Lady Katherine.
The problem is that the world is basically split in two, more or less. Those who believe in conventional medicine and those with more open minds, who believe in alternative options as well. Those who believe in conventional medicines, only taking meds which are approved, usually don't want to listen to more creative even if more beneficial solutions, and that's that.
Then, there are others like you and Peregrene and I, and others, of course, who have more open minds and want to take care of their bodies for now and future,
and believe in the complimentary way, where appropriate. Not for everything, but for most, it would seem.
Never mind that Vitamin C was not taken seriously for decades, nor Vitamin E, nor any other vitamin, probably
not calcium, either. And that some are now taken very
seriously. Or that, as P says above, HRT was approved.
I'd rather believe people on this board for my research and I find more useful information than I got from any doctor. If I waited for my doctors to help me with the all-important details on what to do, I'd be waiting forever. I have found none who give as much help as people suffering the same as I on these boards.
By the way, I have been having problems posting on this site because, I think, I am on AOL and this is a Yahoo site, so if you haven't heard from me for a while, this is why. I have tried to post many times, only to be rejected. And, as I write this, I have no idea if I am wasting my time again.
The problem is that the world is basically split in two, more or less. Those who believe in conventional medicine and those with more open minds, who believe in alternative options as well. Those who believe in conventional medicines, only taking meds which are approved, usually don't want to listen to more creative even if more beneficial solutions, and that's that.
Then, there are others like you and Peregrene and I, and others, of course, who have more open minds and want to take care of their bodies for now and future,
and believe in the complimentary way, where appropriate. Not for everything, but for most, it would seem.
Never mind that Vitamin C was not taken seriously for decades, nor Vitamin E, nor any other vitamin, probably
not calcium, either. And that some are now taken very
seriously. Or that, as P says above, HRT was approved.
I'd rather believe people on this board for my research and I find more useful information than I got from any doctor. If I waited for my doctors to help me with the all-important details on what to do, I'd be waiting forever. I have found none who give as much help as people suffering the same as I on these boards.
By the way, I have been having problems posting on this site because, I think, I am on AOL and this is a Yahoo site, so if you haven't heard from me for a while, this is why. I have tried to post many times, only to be rejected. And, as I write this, I have no idea if I am wasting my time again.
peregrine
09-17-2003, 02:31 PM
Opp! Welcome back! I was wondering where you were.
That you have AOL shouldn't make a difference. Do you think the moderators are bumping you for some reason? Hope not!
Peregrine
[This message has been edited by peregrine (edited 09-17-2003).]
That you have AOL shouldn't make a difference. Do you think the moderators are bumping you for some reason? Hope not!
Peregrine
[This message has been edited by peregrine (edited 09-17-2003).]
NancyH
09-17-2003, 11:44 PM
Ok, so we all different, like different strokes for different folks. I don't drink Coke as a regular beverage but it settles my tummy faster than a tums, my father drove a Cola truck, he laughed at the Coke legends, by the way some created by Coke employees themselves, decades ago, nothing new under the sun. I tried the coke and penny thing, it works with non cola beverages as well just takes a bit longer. We know this stuff isn't good for us, need we justify it so with fact or fiction? I've tried Naturopathic medicene as well as conventional, my current Dr uses both as complementary. Just cuz it's "Natural" doesn't mean it is safer or better than synthetic, in actuallity there is less chance of contamination with conventional than Natural as natural has no safety regulations. This is scientific and can be researched. Naturopathic medicene did even less for me than conventional and I got worse under the Naturopath Dr and somewhat better with conventional so I say again. We can try all the "snake oil" treatments or conventional but the one thing that you can do is for yourself, eat right with lots of calcium enriched foods and drink, exercise, take supplements, don't tout "my medicene man is better than your medicene man" less arguments, less stress less stomach upsets, more calcium build up and we can all be happy here in the Bone yard.
[This message has been edited by NancyH (edited 09-17-2003).]
[This message has been edited by NancyH (edited 09-17-2003).]
peregrine
09-18-2003, 07:37 AM
Nancy,
I appreciate your thoughts, but isn't that what this board is for - your thoughts ... and everyone else's as well? This is a place where we "can" voice divergent viewpoints.
I don't see this as a problem or being argumentative; rather, a healthy discussion. If I were unclear as to what health path I wanted to take, I would "want" to hear from "both sides of the aisle" and all of the experiences people have had. I don't hear anyone here, who disagrees with a particular viewpoint of another, saying that the choice those people have made is "wrong", simply not right for them. Surely there is room for both persuasions.
But it is also helpful to offer information as to the results of trying a particular method, just as you did when you said Naturopathy made you feel worse. That is your experience and I respect it, even though it is different from my experience. Nonetheless, I think it important for everyone tuning in here, and trying to decide what their path will be, to hear it. Lovingly agreeing to disagree makes for a dynamic and infomative health board.
All the best,
Peregrine
[This message has been edited by peregrine (edited 09-18-2003).]
I appreciate your thoughts, but isn't that what this board is for - your thoughts ... and everyone else's as well? This is a place where we "can" voice divergent viewpoints.
I don't see this as a problem or being argumentative; rather, a healthy discussion. If I were unclear as to what health path I wanted to take, I would "want" to hear from "both sides of the aisle" and all of the experiences people have had. I don't hear anyone here, who disagrees with a particular viewpoint of another, saying that the choice those people have made is "wrong", simply not right for them. Surely there is room for both persuasions.
But it is also helpful to offer information as to the results of trying a particular method, just as you did when you said Naturopathy made you feel worse. That is your experience and I respect it, even though it is different from my experience. Nonetheless, I think it important for everyone tuning in here, and trying to decide what their path will be, to hear it. Lovingly agreeing to disagree makes for a dynamic and infomative health board.
All the best,
Peregrine
[This message has been edited by peregrine (edited 09-18-2003).]
USAFMOM
09-18-2003, 08:27 AM
Actually I would like to hear from women who have been to neuropaths, and even iridologists. A friend of mine goes to an iridologist who, I guess, helps her determine what supplements work best with her body chemistry. I really know nothing about this, and I've never heard of going to a neuropath. What can they offer?
I think, whether an M.D., D.C., naturopath, etc. etc. etc., the key is discernment, research, and education for each individual, and to keep in mind what works for some may not work for others as our bodies are all wonderful, intricate, dynamic machines. :)
As for the Coke thing, well my motto has always been balance, balance, balance. Even the best made things for our bodies are very unhealthy if out of proper balance. I've never subscribed to anything that seems out of balance for my body, whether it be the Atkin's diet with all protein and no carbs, toooo much exercise, too many sweets, too much caffeine, and the list goes on and on. I enjoy a good ice-cold Coke occasionally, and I certainly enjoy my tea through the day, but all in balance. :)
I think, whether an M.D., D.C., naturopath, etc. etc. etc., the key is discernment, research, and education for each individual, and to keep in mind what works for some may not work for others as our bodies are all wonderful, intricate, dynamic machines. :)
As for the Coke thing, well my motto has always been balance, balance, balance. Even the best made things for our bodies are very unhealthy if out of proper balance. I've never subscribed to anything that seems out of balance for my body, whether it be the Atkin's diet with all protein and no carbs, toooo much exercise, too many sweets, too much caffeine, and the list goes on and on. I enjoy a good ice-cold Coke occasionally, and I certainly enjoy my tea through the day, but all in balance. :)
OppOnn
09-18-2003, 10:37 AM
I believe in balance, too. And listening (or reading about) all sides. I do my research. Before I make a decision. As for scientific research, well, we've been into that. If the vitamin companies or anyone who comes up with a good vitamin or alternative treatment for some ill, had the same budgets as the big drug companies, they, too, could afford to do their clinical trials and give themselves a chance to get FDA approval. And everyone could feel safe. But we would not be. As we said before, look at HRT. No one really knows. So it is up to us to make decisions for our own bodies, both short and long term. And anyone who lets a doctor make it for them, based only on scientific research, could be asking for problems down the road.
Most doctors get their knowledge only from drug companies, we must remember that. They do not spend the time getting their knowledge from everything out there which may help us. But that will change in the future. I hope the near future. More doctors will have knowledge of and recommend complimentary methods for their patients health.
Regarding, being rejected on this site, I was rejected about 4 times before I finally got on the very first time. It was only my persistence that made it possible for me to post. I wrote emails to everyone, got replies which didn't help. The message I got was that it was because I was AOL and sometimes I would be rejected. If I wanted to always be accepted, I should get Yahoo! Which is not possible for stationery reasons.
I know at least 3 good people who tried to get on this site, and gave up, never did make it.
O
Most doctors get their knowledge only from drug companies, we must remember that. They do not spend the time getting their knowledge from everything out there which may help us. But that will change in the future. I hope the near future. More doctors will have knowledge of and recommend complimentary methods for their patients health.
Regarding, being rejected on this site, I was rejected about 4 times before I finally got on the very first time. It was only my persistence that made it possible for me to post. I wrote emails to everyone, got replies which didn't help. The message I got was that it was because I was AOL and sometimes I would be rejected. If I wanted to always be accepted, I should get Yahoo! Which is not possible for stationery reasons.
I know at least 3 good people who tried to get on this site, and gave up, never did make it.
O
jim's girl
09-18-2003, 08:22 PM
I love this discussion.
Peregrine...do I know you from another life?
Since I moved to a place with a well, where the
toilets turn red with iron, and the water sometimes
smells of sulpher....my teeth are much better...
hygenists compliment me on my good care...I've
done nothing differently. Maybe it's the water?
My early osteoporosis is better...I've added calcium
and magnesium to my daily routine. Tea once a day.
But, I've developed acid reflux...GYN wants me to
start Actonel...it promises to give me heartburn,
chest pain, etc. Will I take it? Probably not.
They really mean well, but will focus on their
specialty, and one chem to fix it. The best doctor I ever had was a "Doctor of Physical Medicine" and Oxteopath, who dealt with the whole person, and had an inquiring mind, eager to learn new things to pass on to his patients, or learn from his patients!
Nice to read this post. (RE: colas, I'm gonna try it for cleaning the toilet! I, too have seen the penny trick...done with Sprite?! When Aspartame first came out, there was a neuro-psychiatrist who tried to get it banned because he said he'd found that using it with carbs caused depression...no idea what became of that.)
strat
Peregrine...do I know you from another life?
Since I moved to a place with a well, where the
toilets turn red with iron, and the water sometimes
smells of sulpher....my teeth are much better...
hygenists compliment me on my good care...I've
done nothing differently. Maybe it's the water?
My early osteoporosis is better...I've added calcium
and magnesium to my daily routine. Tea once a day.
But, I've developed acid reflux...GYN wants me to
start Actonel...it promises to give me heartburn,
chest pain, etc. Will I take it? Probably not.
They really mean well, but will focus on their
specialty, and one chem to fix it. The best doctor I ever had was a "Doctor of Physical Medicine" and Oxteopath, who dealt with the whole person, and had an inquiring mind, eager to learn new things to pass on to his patients, or learn from his patients!
Nice to read this post. (RE: colas, I'm gonna try it for cleaning the toilet! I, too have seen the penny trick...done with Sprite?! When Aspartame first came out, there was a neuro-psychiatrist who tried to get it banned because he said he'd found that using it with carbs caused depression...no idea what became of that.)
strat
NancyH
09-18-2003, 10:37 PM
Been coming to this board a very long time, I certainly didn't plan on that post sounding snide or whatever, I like to read other experiences to and maybe I just read some of the posts wrong. I agree with some of you on Balance, I live by moderation in most things, may have a can of Coke once a month if that but oh it tastes so good and helps me to belch when needed. I just don't want to be one of those groupie folks that think this or that type of food or medicene or diet is the ultimate and only way to go. Sorry if I sounded however I sounded ok? Must be my bones sounding off not my brain!
GKP
09-19-2003, 09:27 AM
Does anyone out there have any information on the relative merits of drinking a non-cola beverage? I stopped drinking Coke years ago, but switched to Mt. Dew, which doesn't contain phosporic acid, but, of course, lots of caffeine and carbonation.
Of course I know that Mt.Dew is not a health drink, but I wondered if it might be less damanging to the bones.
Thanks!
Of course I know that Mt.Dew is not a health drink, but I wondered if it might be less damanging to the bones.
Thanks!
peregrine
09-19-2003, 03:21 PM
Nancy - All's well that ends well. Right? I think we all share those creaky bones!
Opp - so glad you seem to be "up and running" here again!
Jim's girl and GKP - Welcome to this board! J's girl, iron is impoving your bones. Hmmm. I wonder if this is something we should investigate further.
Peregrine
[This message has been edited by peregrine (edited 09-19-2003).]
Opp - so glad you seem to be "up and running" here again!
Jim's girl and GKP - Welcome to this board! J's girl, iron is impoving your bones. Hmmm. I wonder if this is something we should investigate further.
Peregrine
[This message has been edited by peregrine (edited 09-19-2003).]
OppOnn
09-19-2003, 06:56 PM
J's girl, regarding the iron improving your bones with the well, have you always taken calcium with minerals?
Do you take vitamins and supplements? It may be you were de-mineralized? Whatever it is interesting.
I guess this is why people went to spas and took the waters in the old days. Goodness knows what is in our water? We have a filter on our tap water, also have one on our shower head.
Thanks for the welcome back, P, just hope I don't get rejected again any time soon!
Very busy at the moment, with catch up with the rest of the posts end of next week.
Visiting my interesting doctor next Tuesday again.
O
Do you take vitamins and supplements? It may be you were de-mineralized? Whatever it is interesting.
I guess this is why people went to spas and took the waters in the old days. Goodness knows what is in our water? We have a filter on our tap water, also have one on our shower head.
Thanks for the welcome back, P, just hope I don't get rejected again any time soon!
Very busy at the moment, with catch up with the rest of the posts end of next week.
Visiting my interesting doctor next Tuesday again.
O
jim's girl
09-23-2003, 09:54 PM
Of course I'm not positive the water has anything to do
with it. Been using Calcium/Magnesium since 1997 for
leg cramps (instead of quinine...which promotes the
ringing and static noises in the ears). The bone
density test was in 1999. The one here, done in
2003, is the one that shows improvement.
Could be life-style...been doing serious TaiChi for 14 months, but haven't added anything else.
By the way...other topic in same thread...years ago,
breasts got bumpy and sore. I was scared...GYN made
appointment, but said "get the caffienne out of your
body before you get here". I'd been drinking tea at
breakfast, and Pepsi all day long, and occasional
ice tea. Dropped down to tea at breakfast only. By the time I got to the GYN, the breasts were normal again!
Doctors still prescribe quinine for leg cramps. But ear doctors say "get the quinine out!" Others will prescribe Neurotin for leg cramps (a heavy duty med!) Nutritionist suggests Magnesium...which stops it.
Those who scoff at chemicals, minerals, etc, don't seem
to get that we're made of this stuff, and balance is
indeed a huge part of health.
Jim's Girl
with it. Been using Calcium/Magnesium since 1997 for
leg cramps (instead of quinine...which promotes the
ringing and static noises in the ears). The bone
density test was in 1999. The one here, done in
2003, is the one that shows improvement.
Could be life-style...been doing serious TaiChi for 14 months, but haven't added anything else.
By the way...other topic in same thread...years ago,
breasts got bumpy and sore. I was scared...GYN made
appointment, but said "get the caffienne out of your
body before you get here". I'd been drinking tea at
breakfast, and Pepsi all day long, and occasional
ice tea. Dropped down to tea at breakfast only. By the time I got to the GYN, the breasts were normal again!
Doctors still prescribe quinine for leg cramps. But ear doctors say "get the quinine out!" Others will prescribe Neurotin for leg cramps (a heavy duty med!) Nutritionist suggests Magnesium...which stops it.
Those who scoff at chemicals, minerals, etc, don't seem
to get that we're made of this stuff, and balance is
indeed a huge part of health.
Jim's Girl
jim's girl
09-23-2003, 10:16 PM
Third try tonight to get on this post...first one
said "we have flood control, try again in 30 seconds",
next one said I didn't fill out all my form fields...
what a nuisance! Yes, I was evacuated by boat,
across the street, between the houses...
regarding local water...not positive it is the water,
just the only thing that's changed. Been taking
calcium/magnesium since 1997 for leg cramps. 1999 density is the one we're comparing to 2003 density!
I'd been using quinine for leg cramps...developed
ear ringing, loud roaring in ears...guess what the
ear doctor said? "Get the quinine out!" Nutritionist
suggested trying magnesium when some wit tried to give
me neurontin (heavy duty med) for leg cramps! "They're trying to access your maganesium", she said.
As for colas... Around 1996, I had bumpy, sore breasts,
scary...GYN made appointment, said "get the caffiene
out of your body before you get here". I had been
doing morning tea, Pepsi all day, and Jim was an
ice-tea person. Dropped down to tea only in the AM.
By the time the GYN examined my breasts two weeks later, they were normal.
Chemicals and minerals are what we're made of, after
all, including lots of water...silly to disregard the
effect balance has to have in our bods. Each Doc focuses on their thing, disregarding or ignorant of
the harm they can do to other parts. We really have
to take care of ourselves, do our own research while
finding the best Docs we can to work with us.
Thanks for the welcome...Jim's Girl
said "we have flood control, try again in 30 seconds",
next one said I didn't fill out all my form fields...
what a nuisance! Yes, I was evacuated by boat,
across the street, between the houses...
regarding local water...not positive it is the water,
just the only thing that's changed. Been taking
calcium/magnesium since 1997 for leg cramps. 1999 density is the one we're comparing to 2003 density!
I'd been using quinine for leg cramps...developed
ear ringing, loud roaring in ears...guess what the
ear doctor said? "Get the quinine out!" Nutritionist
suggested trying magnesium when some wit tried to give
me neurontin (heavy duty med) for leg cramps! "They're trying to access your maganesium", she said.
As for colas... Around 1996, I had bumpy, sore breasts,
scary...GYN made appointment, said "get the caffiene
out of your body before you get here". I had been
doing morning tea, Pepsi all day, and Jim was an
ice-tea person. Dropped down to tea only in the AM.
By the time the GYN examined my breasts two weeks later, they were normal.
Chemicals and minerals are what we're made of, after
all, including lots of water...silly to disregard the
effect balance has to have in our bods. Each Doc focuses on their thing, disregarding or ignorant of
the harm they can do to other parts. We really have
to take care of ourselves, do our own research while
finding the best Docs we can to work with us.
Thanks for the welcome...Jim's Girl
OppOnn
09-24-2003, 06:49 PM
Interesting about the breasts and caffeine, Jim's girl.
Hmm. But I took caffeine out of my life in 1999, due to stomach problems (I have Crohn's)... But getting rid of the caffeine got rid of my heartburn overnight, never really had it again!
They say it is important to have the same machine, the same technician for one's bone density tests, or results could vary. No doctor told me that. But an osteo expert did. My doctors don't tell me most of what I need to know...and I guess it is the same for
most of us.
Hope you have electricity and are back to normal.
I'm still having problems getting on this site. Have a whole slew of posts I replied to, but I never did get to post! Most annoying...
O
Hmm. But I took caffeine out of my life in 1999, due to stomach problems (I have Crohn's)... But getting rid of the caffeine got rid of my heartburn overnight, never really had it again!
They say it is important to have the same machine, the same technician for one's bone density tests, or results could vary. No doctor told me that. But an osteo expert did. My doctors don't tell me most of what I need to know...and I guess it is the same for
most of us.
Hope you have electricity and are back to normal.
I'm still having problems getting on this site. Have a whole slew of posts I replied to, but I never did get to post! Most annoying...
O
Jayashri Fairclough
09-24-2003, 11:19 PM
About caffeine being bad for our bone density....is it because of its diuretic qualities or is there something special about coffee that leaches calcium from our bones....if all caggeine affects us that way it must be because it makes us urinate out all our calcium, right? Recently I looked up info on the net about caffeine and could find nothing conlusive. Mostly I found glowing reports about tea and coffee being loaded with anti-oxidants and other wonderful substances, which makes me wonder just where the funding for this research is coming from. I do drink a little caffeine every day because I enjoy tea and a tiny bit of coffee...one 8 oz. cup of coffee in the morning and one 8 oz. cup of tea in the afternoon...no pop at all ever. I also drink loads of water, take calcium/ magnesium supplements and try to eat lots of greens. I guess I'll have to address my tea and coffee habit because I do have osteoporosis. Does anyone know how sugar and salt affect calcium absorption?
marciakeeney
09-24-2003, 11:56 PM
Green tea is supposed to be a good thing for your bones. And black tea as well. The caffeine in both is not nearly as much as coffee.
Jayashri Fairclough
09-30-2003, 11:41 PM
Yes, green tea is great, I think. I just found out that black tea and coffee both have high levels of oxalic acid which is not good for our bones...binds with calcium, magnesium and other minerals and makes them unavailable for us.