pentex
07-22-2003, 08:21 PM
Are Fosomax and Actonel the same thing, i.e. the same chemical makeup?
Sponsor
train23
08-26-2003, 02:15 AM
If you look at both chemical structures listed in the patient information, the two drugs are chemically different. Fosamax has a side nitrogen chain and Actonel has a nitrogen ring. Some experts suspect this is why Fosamax is harder to tolerate than Actonel. The side nitrogen chain will react more with the esophegus and stomach, while Actonel's nitrogen ring is better self-contained and causes less irritation.
ladiedi
08-26-2003, 10:48 AM
Do they know which works better, or which increases bone denisty more so. I have read alot and can never find a concrete answer. I seem to see a lot of "my bone scan wasn't that much increased" kind of statements on webpostings?
train23
08-27-2003, 03:57 PM
Both Actonel and Fosamax will build bone density. The question that needs to be addressed is which one reduces more fractures.
[This message has been edited by train23 (edited 08-31-2003).]
[This message has been edited by train23 (edited 08-31-2003).]
ladiedi
08-30-2003, 10:23 PM
Why would they give one over the other?
train23
08-31-2003, 02:14 PM
A doctor has to take a lot of things in consideration. For instance what insurance a patient has and what drugs that insurance will cover. Also doctors are creatures of habit and if one drug has been out longer they will hold on their "pet" drug rather than go with something else that might show better results.
jim's girl
09-18-2003, 07:11 PM
Just posted a message on "Digestive Disorders".
I have acid reflux. My GYN knows that. Still, she
wants me to take Actonel for threatening osteoporosis.
I'm pushing 70. Actonel package flat-out warns against
the possibility of "heartburn, trouble swallowing, pain in the chest" caused by Actonel's effects on the esophagus and stomach.
I've done calcium, exercise, good diet habits,
TaiChi (the fight version) and I think I've raised
my density level...why take a drug that promises to give you an illness you already have, advises you to stop and tell the doc if it happens? Why start?
Is Fosamax worse? Gonna look up the Fosamax site
next. Happy to hear any sane thoughts on what seems
like an insane recommendation to me...
She's either not paying attention, or doesn't know
any alternatives...she's very cool, very involved, so
I don't get it.
I'm sure I'll find lots of suggestions here?
I have acid reflux. My GYN knows that. Still, she
wants me to take Actonel for threatening osteoporosis.
I'm pushing 70. Actonel package flat-out warns against
the possibility of "heartburn, trouble swallowing, pain in the chest" caused by Actonel's effects on the esophagus and stomach.
I've done calcium, exercise, good diet habits,
TaiChi (the fight version) and I think I've raised
my density level...why take a drug that promises to give you an illness you already have, advises you to stop and tell the doc if it happens? Why start?
Is Fosamax worse? Gonna look up the Fosamax site
next. Happy to hear any sane thoughts on what seems
like an insane recommendation to me...
She's either not paying attention, or doesn't know
any alternatives...she's very cool, very involved, so
I don't get it.
I'm sure I'll find lots of suggestions here?
jinglebts
09-23-2003, 12:11 PM
actonal is newer than fosamax, and as a previous poster described, causes fewer side effects for those reasons ...
unless you've been DX'd with lo bone density, there's no reason to take either drug, which are both SO destructive to the system ... i myself use calcitonin: i was DX'd hypothyroid, my bone density collapsed (i've had several done, and was doing quite well on calcitonin, thankyou very much), i broke my hip, and NOW i'm going on a calcitonin/calcium/vitD regimen, and as soon as my hip heals, i'm gonna walk/work out ...
i refuse to take fosamax/actonel (altho' i have been taking it) for the reasons outlined on the thyroid board by skyeagle1, in the topic "new dr. says fosamax not calcium" -- read to the END of the topic ...
:D jb
[This message has been edited by jinglebts (edited 09-23-2003).]
unless you've been DX'd with lo bone density, there's no reason to take either drug, which are both SO destructive to the system ... i myself use calcitonin: i was DX'd hypothyroid, my bone density collapsed (i've had several done, and was doing quite well on calcitonin, thankyou very much), i broke my hip, and NOW i'm going on a calcitonin/calcium/vitD regimen, and as soon as my hip heals, i'm gonna walk/work out ...
i refuse to take fosamax/actonel (altho' i have been taking it) for the reasons outlined on the thyroid board by skyeagle1, in the topic "new dr. says fosamax not calcium" -- read to the END of the topic ...
:D jb
[This message has been edited by jinglebts (edited 09-23-2003).]
Sky_Eagle1
09-24-2003, 11:45 AM
I was reading over here just to see if my work had been mentioned - I'll go one better:
Click here to read the thread we've been talking about (http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/Forum118/HTML/004219.html)
Originally posted by jinglebts:
i refuse to take fosamax/actonel (altho' i have been taking it) for the reasons outlined on the thyroid board by skyeagle1, in the topic "new dr. says fosamax not calcium" -- read to the END of the topic
Click here to read the thread we've been talking about (http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/Forum118/HTML/004219.html)
Originally posted by jinglebts:
i refuse to take fosamax/actonel (altho' i have been taking it) for the reasons outlined on the thyroid board by skyeagle1, in the topic "new dr. says fosamax not calcium" -- read to the END of the topic
NancyH
09-26-2003, 01:20 AM
Dr Joseph Mercola is a Dr who is anti conventional medicene, he wrote the "No Grain Diet" which one naturopath recently has taken a second look at for some misleading information. Any extremist is subject to suspicion to me. Not everything he has written should be taken as gospel. You do have to weigh both sides, my Dr is conventional/alternative and he boldly says there is not scientific clinical trials as yet as to the long term effect F or A has on the body, neither one of these drugs have been out that long. Natural methods do not mean better or safer. I find that the pharmacuetical companies are more to blame than any Dr, after all they do the advertising and the snow job on the dr because they (most Drs) really try to help their patient, with only 6 months of pharmaceutical learning what do you expect but that they rely on the drug company for information? I have no problem telling my Drs that I firmly believe this or that drug is only for lining the pockets of the pharmaceutical CEO and he can agree to some of it, but again nothing is perfectly safe including following every utterance from a Dr who is an extremist in his thinking of the medical community. One bad apple doesn't spoil the bushel. You can read every article on these drugs and not all of it is true or reliable. I personally hate the drugs myself but I've tried everything else over the last 6 yrs and it only got worse, so I went for the actenol last yr, only time will tell, then again we loose anyway, as the bones get thinner we have more fractures and risk of deadly complications or we take a drug that May or May not have severe long term effects. Makes you wonder what is worse, dying earlier from drug effects or living the rest of your life curled in a fetal position for fear of moving, like my gradmother did.
[This message has been edited by NancyH (edited 09-26-2003).]
[This message has been edited by NancyH (edited 09-26-2003).]
jrws
09-29-2003, 05:38 AM
Dear Nancy,
Your reply dealt directly with what's been on my mind.
I've read the Mercola posts about Fosomax/Actonel and they've really alarmed me! I wish I knew how medically sound his info is. From what I understand, he maintains that when you use the biophosphonates, the osteoblast/osteoclast process is interrupted ; instead of the normal process of new bone being formed as old bone breaks down, the biophosphonates will lay down "crystals" in the bone which stop the removal (of old bone) process. So, there are no spaces in which new bone can form. The body can't break down the Fosomax/Actonel cystals which remain in the bone 15 to 20 years and replace normal healthy bone with an artificial plastic-like composition. From what I've read,no one knows what the effects of Fosomax are after 4 years.
When I present my Dr's with this info, they don't believe it or validate it.
I don't take hormones (for one thing I've had breast cancer and the recent studies are also negative regarding hormone replacement... wonder about "natural hormones"???) and like you, don't want to end up like my grandmother who slept sitting up with her head bent down in a totally disfiguring and painful position. My dexa results have been low normal.
So, I think I'll take my Actonel tomorrow. (Wonder what would happen if I did one week on, one wk off??)
Have you ready any other reliable sites that question these products??
Thanks!
JRWS
Your reply dealt directly with what's been on my mind.
I've read the Mercola posts about Fosomax/Actonel and they've really alarmed me! I wish I knew how medically sound his info is. From what I understand, he maintains that when you use the biophosphonates, the osteoblast/osteoclast process is interrupted ; instead of the normal process of new bone being formed as old bone breaks down, the biophosphonates will lay down "crystals" in the bone which stop the removal (of old bone) process. So, there are no spaces in which new bone can form. The body can't break down the Fosomax/Actonel cystals which remain in the bone 15 to 20 years and replace normal healthy bone with an artificial plastic-like composition. From what I've read,no one knows what the effects of Fosomax are after 4 years.
When I present my Dr's with this info, they don't believe it or validate it.
I don't take hormones (for one thing I've had breast cancer and the recent studies are also negative regarding hormone replacement... wonder about "natural hormones"???) and like you, don't want to end up like my grandmother who slept sitting up with her head bent down in a totally disfiguring and painful position. My dexa results have been low normal.
So, I think I'll take my Actonel tomorrow. (Wonder what would happen if I did one week on, one wk off??)
Have you ready any other reliable sites that question these products??
Thanks!
JRWS
peregrine
09-29-2003, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by jrws:
From what I understand, he maintains that when you use the biophosphonates, the osteoblast/osteoclast process is interrupted ; instead of the normal process of new bone being formed as old bone breaks down, the biophosphonates will lay down "crystals" in the bone which stop the removal (of old bone) process.
When I present my Dr's with this info, they don't believe it or validate it. JRWS
Regarding the crystals: they can be formed anywhere in the body, including the esophogus, which is why many people end up with difficulties swallowing.
Unfortunately, your inability to find validation is typical from the medical community, Afterall, they only have these types of drugs to offer. I'm sure they don't want to "shoot themselves in the foot" by questioning their efficacy.
Regarding your low normal score, you mean you are just slightly below the normal range? If so, you have a very good chance of responding well to an alternative program of vitamin supplements and weight-bearing exercise. This is your decision, of course. I think if you can do a lot of reserach (this board is a good place to start)it will not only help you to make an informed one, but likely assuage some of your anxiety as well.
All the best!
Peregrine
[This message has been edited by peregrine (edited 09-29-2003).]
From what I understand, he maintains that when you use the biophosphonates, the osteoblast/osteoclast process is interrupted ; instead of the normal process of new bone being formed as old bone breaks down, the biophosphonates will lay down "crystals" in the bone which stop the removal (of old bone) process.
When I present my Dr's with this info, they don't believe it or validate it. JRWS
Regarding the crystals: they can be formed anywhere in the body, including the esophogus, which is why many people end up with difficulties swallowing.
Unfortunately, your inability to find validation is typical from the medical community, Afterall, they only have these types of drugs to offer. I'm sure they don't want to "shoot themselves in the foot" by questioning their efficacy.
Regarding your low normal score, you mean you are just slightly below the normal range? If so, you have a very good chance of responding well to an alternative program of vitamin supplements and weight-bearing exercise. This is your decision, of course. I think if you can do a lot of reserach (this board is a good place to start)it will not only help you to make an informed one, but likely assuage some of your anxiety as well.
All the best!
Peregrine
[This message has been edited by peregrine (edited 09-29-2003).]
jrws
09-30-2003, 05:28 AM
"Regarding your low normal score, you mean you are just slightly below the normal range? If so, you have a very good chance of responding well to an alternative program of vitamin supplements and weight-bearing exercise. This is your decision, of course. I think if you can do a lot of reserach (this board is a good place to start)it will not only help you to make an informed one, but likely assuage some of your anxiety as well."
All the best!
Peregrine
Dear Peregrine,
Thanks for your reply! As I recall, I was low normal on the DEXA. I've had breast (and colon) cancer in the past and am menopausal. I think my oncologist feels that without estrogen, I am at risk for osteoporosis, so that is perhaps why he put me on the biophosphonates. I started with Fosomax and decide to go to Actonel on my own.
Contrary to something I've read on the boards, Actonel IS used for Postmenopausal women. It seems that I read that Fosomax was tested and recommended for postmenopausal women; and Actonel for premenopausal women. I read a few studies tonight that said Actonel was definitely helpful in Postmenopausal women too. I'd guess that either drug works on both pre and post menopausal women.
On one of my last blood workups, I had a high calcium serum level, so my oncologist told me to not take the calcium supplements I was using. I don't drink milk products due to a lactose intolerance. Guess I was getting enough from soy milk and the soy powder shakes I was using about 3 times a week. I'm so used to hearing we women should take our calcium, it seems weird not to. The blood work did go back to normal when I stopped. I was using Citrical with D. (It must work pretty well!)
Now, two board questions if you don't mind. First, how did you include my "quote" in your post. I just copied and pasted, but it doesn't look like yours. What's your trick.
Second, is there a way to be "reminded" or notified that there has been a response to your post by the site? I keep sending myself e-mails to remind myself to go back and check. (oops.. is this postmenopausal forgetfulness creeping in!!)
There are some interesting discussions going on here. It's so nice we are all there for one another as we go these "passages".
Best,
JRWS
p.s. I've just started up at one of those "curves" like gyms. It has another name, but is based on the same concept. I like it! Thanks again for your helpful suggestions.
All the best!
Peregrine
Dear Peregrine,
Thanks for your reply! As I recall, I was low normal on the DEXA. I've had breast (and colon) cancer in the past and am menopausal. I think my oncologist feels that without estrogen, I am at risk for osteoporosis, so that is perhaps why he put me on the biophosphonates. I started with Fosomax and decide to go to Actonel on my own.
Contrary to something I've read on the boards, Actonel IS used for Postmenopausal women. It seems that I read that Fosomax was tested and recommended for postmenopausal women; and Actonel for premenopausal women. I read a few studies tonight that said Actonel was definitely helpful in Postmenopausal women too. I'd guess that either drug works on both pre and post menopausal women.
On one of my last blood workups, I had a high calcium serum level, so my oncologist told me to not take the calcium supplements I was using. I don't drink milk products due to a lactose intolerance. Guess I was getting enough from soy milk and the soy powder shakes I was using about 3 times a week. I'm so used to hearing we women should take our calcium, it seems weird not to. The blood work did go back to normal when I stopped. I was using Citrical with D. (It must work pretty well!)
Now, two board questions if you don't mind. First, how did you include my "quote" in your post. I just copied and pasted, but it doesn't look like yours. What's your trick.
Second, is there a way to be "reminded" or notified that there has been a response to your post by the site? I keep sending myself e-mails to remind myself to go back and check. (oops.. is this postmenopausal forgetfulness creeping in!!)
There are some interesting discussions going on here. It's so nice we are all there for one another as we go these "passages".
Best,
JRWS
p.s. I've just started up at one of those "curves" like gyms. It has another name, but is based on the same concept. I like it! Thanks again for your helpful suggestions.
peregrine
09-30-2003, 06:06 AM
Originally posted by jrws:
[B Now, two board questions if you don't mind. First, how did you include my "quote" in your post. I just copied and pasted, but it doesn't look like yours. What's your trick.
Second, is there a way to be "reminded" or notified that there has been a response to your post by the site? I keep sending myself e-mails to remind myself to go back and check. (oops.. is this postmenopausal forgetfulness creeping in!!)[/B]
JRWS,
In order to insert your above quote I clicked on "quote" right above your message (instead of reply at the bottom). Then I simply deleted what was not pertinent to my reply, but making sure to leave everything in [ ]at the beginning and end.
If you want replies to come directly into your email you will have to indicate that when you start a new thread by checking the appropriate box before you "Submit Reply".
Hope this helps.
P.
[This message has been edited by peregrine (edited 09-30-2003).]
[B Now, two board questions if you don't mind. First, how did you include my "quote" in your post. I just copied and pasted, but it doesn't look like yours. What's your trick.
Second, is there a way to be "reminded" or notified that there has been a response to your post by the site? I keep sending myself e-mails to remind myself to go back and check. (oops.. is this postmenopausal forgetfulness creeping in!!)[/B]
JRWS,
In order to insert your above quote I clicked on "quote" right above your message (instead of reply at the bottom). Then I simply deleted what was not pertinent to my reply, but making sure to leave everything in [ ]at the beginning and end.
If you want replies to come directly into your email you will have to indicate that when you start a new thread by checking the appropriate box before you "Submit Reply".
Hope this helps.
P.
[This message has been edited by peregrine (edited 09-30-2003).]
NancyH
09-30-2003, 05:43 PM
I must have a rare breed of Doctors. Really have never a problem with saying to my Dr that I'm going to research all I can before I take anything and they have always said it was my right and my duty to look at all claims in regarding any drug or product. In fact my rheumy point blank has told me that if more patients treated their medication the same way they treated buying a home there would be more happy patients rather than disgruntled. I inguire about everything and they never came back negative, I've even said they as Dr should be more aware of drug and their long term effects and he agrees but with time consuming medical tests and constant schooling to keepup with the new and ever surmounting malpractice insurance there is not time to research every drug he gives out unfortunately that is left to the pharmacuetical co who make the drugs and are suppose to give realiable info and that doesn't always happen. It's a matter of we the consumer need to find out everything we can and then choose to take it or seek alternative means which isn't always good either.
train23
10-01-2003, 12:34 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jinglebts:
i myself use calcitonin: i was DX'd hypothyroid, my bone density collapsed (i've had several done, and was doing quite well on calcitonin, thankyou very much), i broke my hip, and NOW i'm going on a calcitonin/calcium/vitD regimen, and as soon as my hip heals, i'm gonna walk/work out ...
I just have to respond to this. Bisphosphanates might not be the best thing for a person with osteoporosis, but as I'm sure you are aware a hip fracture can be one of the most devestating things that can happen to someone. Since 1955 when Calcitonin was released, there has never been a study conducted that found a significant reduction in hip fractures. Both Actonel and Fosamax have shown in multiple clinical studies that using either one will reduce hip fractures. If you can't tolerate either one, then yes, Calcitonin is probably your best bet. I just don't want people to get the wrong idea that bisphosphonates are "last resort" drugs. They are the gold standard of osteopenia and osteoporosis treatment.
[This message has been edited by train23 (edited 09-30-2003).]
i myself use calcitonin: i was DX'd hypothyroid, my bone density collapsed (i've had several done, and was doing quite well on calcitonin, thankyou very much), i broke my hip, and NOW i'm going on a calcitonin/calcium/vitD regimen, and as soon as my hip heals, i'm gonna walk/work out ...
I just have to respond to this. Bisphosphanates might not be the best thing for a person with osteoporosis, but as I'm sure you are aware a hip fracture can be one of the most devestating things that can happen to someone. Since 1955 when Calcitonin was released, there has never been a study conducted that found a significant reduction in hip fractures. Both Actonel and Fosamax have shown in multiple clinical studies that using either one will reduce hip fractures. If you can't tolerate either one, then yes, Calcitonin is probably your best bet. I just don't want people to get the wrong idea that bisphosphonates are "last resort" drugs. They are the gold standard of osteopenia and osteoporosis treatment.
[This message has been edited by train23 (edited 09-30-2003).]
lno
10-02-2003, 11:12 PM
JRWS: You eluded to taking Actonel one week and then skipping a week. I, myself, have done this frequently. Why, because I feel I don't have enough information to feel comfortable taking this drug without knowing the long-term affect on my body. Then, I think, what if by taking it, my bones do become more dense and strong? It's a quandary all right. Sometimes, I've gone 2 months without any drug and then started up again. Not to mention the cost of the "stuff". If that's the only drug I had to take it would not be an issue, however, I'm taking 3 other drugs over 100.00 each. What a dilema. I took Fosamax for 2 years and now Actonel for about 2-1/2 yrs. I'm ready to stop but my Rhumo says to keep taking it as my numbers are -2.8 STILL. You must make your own decision. I find myself vacilating from yes, I'm taking it, to no I'm not. At least I get some in me, which is probably not effective, however, I'm o.k. with it. Staying positive and believing it works is 1/2 the battle, the war goes on!!!!!! Good Luck.
NancyH
10-03-2003, 01:16 AM
So do I, I'll take it for a month and then not take it for awhile, I just worry bout the long term effects and yet feel I need to get some in the system, I take every possible calcium VitD Mag potion I can get my hands on but I don't know if it will work or not. My spine scores is -3.7 and my hips are worse, I don't want to end up like my granny in a nursing home fetal position and be 6 inches shorter than I was before I got it. It is such a delima and a personal choice as well.
aliboba7
10-17-2003, 04:26 PM
I have done some research and there are some differences between Actonel and Fosamax. Fosamax has an indication to reduce fractures in both the hip and spine (Actonel does not have the hip indication). There are studies around Fosamax that proves it reduces the number of fractures in both the hip and spine. In addition, Fosamax has been out the longest and has been studied for 11 years now. So the fact that it remains in your system for 10+ years has yet to be an issue. Fosamax is also been studied and is indicated for men with osteoporosis. Just thought I would point this out!