Hello All. I must say, I find it shocking that so many people are on such strong pain meds. I have been seeing a neurosurgeon for over a month now who is treating me for herniated discs in my neck. I have also had an EMG which was abnormal. The doctor doesn't know what to do about it and he claims that my pain should not be as severe as I say it is (trust me, it is) and he doesn't feel that pain medication is all that necessary. I go to physical therapy three times a week which doesn't seem to be helping and I have a perscription for regular dose vicodin. Has anyone else ever been here before? I can't go to a pain clinic without a referral from my PCP and my PCP feels the neurosurgeon knows what's best. HELP.

What kind of insurance do you have. you are aloud to fire one doc if you need to with W/C. must be the same with other types of insurance. With blue cross you can refer your self. In this case you might want to ask for a referel from your nuerosergone. I remember a long time ago an Intern doc used to take his time with all my procedures, I was given 10 tylox to take home.
So I would be on his front porch in the morning for another refill. One day I finally said to him lets get this frigging surgery schedualed chist almighty.
His very last words to me were "lets not be to hasty"
I fired him on the spot made immidiate arrangement with a doctor down the hall. I called my insurance to let them know these doctors are doing nothing and collecting. get me the name of a respectble back surgeon and will get cracking on this. Three months later it was over with. if you are suffering needlessly go th the emergency room a couple of time that send a cool message too they will probably write you for lortab 10-660 good luck to you just remember you are the boss

Been there done that. When I first started with all the back pain/spasms, then moved to all over no one really wanted to believe me either. You have to keep chugging.

You know your body and your pain level. Keep a journal, be honest with your doctor and like the other post said go to the ER a few times. Look around for a doctor you trust. If you have an HMO where you need a referral insist on getting one from you doctor. It is your pain and your life not his.

I finally ended up at a good pain management facilitiy that takes good care of me. SO far not to many complaints, but I can't rely on them I have to be the boss and make sure what they want to do is right for me and I have a definate say in what test are done or what meds I take.

So stand up for yourself and tell them what they will do - diplomatically of course.

Good luck JEan

Thank u all for the posts, I appreciate it. I do have a blue cross HMO but it is not self refer. I just feel so stuck and so sad. I hurt all the time http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/confused.gif and I feel so humiliated every time I talk to my doctors because they make me feel like I am just pushing for drugs which also makes me angry :mad: so now I am just waiting it out. My doctor ordered another MRI because he said the open MRI may have not given a complete picture, that a closed MRI would be better. It just makes me feel good to know that people like you guys know what I am going through. Thanks again.

Hey Dawn, It wasn't until well after my 3rd lumbar surgery. The last was a 6 level fusion before anyone offered anything stronger than percocet. As far as surgeons go. Most folks haven't had the exposure to high doses of opiates.

So vicodion pre op and percocet post op is pretty much the orthopedic standard. Even when I broke my first set of hardwrae , which was extremely painful I was given Lortab. Surgeons are looking to fix your problem and are not comfy prescribing powerful opiates particularly pre op. They figure the post op pain will be harder to manage. Then their goal is to get you off the meeds.

PM docs get what is left of people after surgery. They have much more experience in prescribing more powerful pain killers. I'm not sure it's realistic to expect anything different. As beneficial as these are to CP patients there are many negative aspects. Dependence is inevatable and something most people would prefer to never experience.

I would certainly get 2 or 3 surgical opinions. You didn't menetion your symptoms and a bulging disc does not always mean surgery. Unless you have neuro symptoms like leg pain or foot drop, deminished reflexes or loss of muscle, PT and staying active are more the standard of care. Morphine and the other long acting meds are and should be reserved for when other methods have failed to relieve your symptoms.

Hang in there and give it some time. Try to stay active and do all the feel good therapies you can afford. More often then not a disc bulge can relieve itself without surgical intervention. Surgery should be the last resort. You can't undue spine surgery and your very young to have to live with a negative outcome.

Perhaps your shocked by some of our dosages because you don't know the entire history. Throw 12 screws and 8 rods into your spine and a few hundred mgs of morphine is just that. Just a few. I take 600 mgs a day but have been at this since my first failed surgery in 93.It wasn't until 99 before I was offered Oxycontin and 3 surgeries had been a complete failure.

If you think your pain can't be worse your very mistaken. After each surgery I had to readjust my pain scale. What was once unimaginable had become very imaginable. What I would have called a 10 in 93 is probably more like a 4 which is now a good day for me. Good luck and don't rush into surgery when there are other options., David

Dawn1973,
I had a jeep accident in 1982,I busted up a few bones, including my tailbone and vertabrae in my neck & back. My doctor's,including some neuro's told me I'd be fine,
I was told my back pain that would not go away was because of my stomach(my gut) I was 6ft &190lbs. So off to work I went and 3 months later my right leg was paralyzed,I had hernated the same vertabrae that was cracked. Off and on since then I have run into doc's,that have give me a line as to "why" I was hurting,just as you are getting,like it's in your head, blah blah! Well, to put it short,I educated myself,before it was harder,no computer to easily look up stuff! I have told several doc's where to stick it,don't be afraid,tell the doc how you feel,and why you feel that way,if they are not impressed that you know what is going on with your own body,either sue the dummy and move on,but MOVE ON! There are alot of doc's out there,and a bunch of them are stupid about pain,if you can't reason with them,give them some pain,report them,and find someone who will help,it's another pain,but worth it.
Slogan

I felt that I needed to reply to David66. Just to let you know, I am not requesting ANYTHING stronger than Vicodin. In fact, I hate even taking those. It's just the fact that they don't want to give me anything. As far as my disc goes, it is herniated (not bulging), the whole way through with compression. I have no reflexes in my left arm as well as compromised muscle strength. I realize that pain scales do need readjusted from time to time and I certainly don't want to know what that's like although I am sure that is inevitable. The surgery? They have already decided they want to do it, I AM the one refusing it because of my age. I wanted to try every therapy available before running out and having a fusion. I have a fourteen month old child who weighs thirty pounds. The prospect of surgery? Terrifying. I have been told that if I don't have it, I could have permanent nerve damage. So please understand, it's not that I want surgery or more powerful drugs. All I want is someone who will believe my pain and sympathize with it, which I have found only in my home and on here. Thanks to all who have replied.

My husband had cerxical surgery last July. Great doctor in Pa. He has people come to him from NY, NJ and Delaware that I have met. He will need more but, it got rid of the 24-7 migrains, numbness down arms to fingures gone now and weakness gone. Every surgeon we know hates to give pain meds out.

The surgeon and our FMS,etc. Pain doctor treats at the same hospital so one did surgery and the other the pain meds.

There is a pain directive that docs must follow. I think it is in every state. It says that THEY MUST BELIEVE YOU AND WHAT YOU SAY YOUR PAIN IS as fact. They must treat your pain level.
It is posted in many pain clinics and you may ask your doctor for a copy. We both have problems and take pain meds as well as other meds.

My girl friend was in terrible pain from her S-1 L-5 and couldn't walk w/o horrific pain before sugery and had to push for meds from her regular doctor. If they won't help you go to a pain clinic. She has no pain there now.

Hopefully, all your pain will be gone after you have the surgery and don't panic. Be possitive and think of no more pain or a lot less. My husband and two of our friends found that a recliner is the most comfortable thing to sleep and sit in for a few weeks after surgery.

You don't have to take the pain. Be your own advocate. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/t_up.gif

Forgot. We have a now 3 year old and yes someone else will have to do the picking up. But, ask yourself this which is better the possibility of perminant life long disabilities or a few weeks now with the need of help from others and being able to do what you want with your child in a few months. Yes there is risk in surgery but, you must decide which is best for you.

Good luck in your dession http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif

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Take care ~Kim & Gary~

[This message has been edited by kim (edited 04-22-2002).]

Kim,
Thank you so much for your reply. I keep checking this site because it gives me comfort to know I am not alone. In a way, I feel like this site is saving me from some of the insanity. One good thing is that I have a GREAT physical therapist. Although the treatment isn't completely relieveing my pain or getting rid of it, he is so understanding and sympathetic to me. I feel like he is my only advocate through all of this. I spent twenty minutes in traction today and I must admit, it felt REALLY good. Then he gave me massage and ultrasound and my mobility is much better this evening. So anyway, the frustration still remains. I haven't had to miss much work as of yet, I am a therapist in a pediatric intensive care unit, but saturday night was so painful I had to come home early :( thankfully, I have great support from my coworkers and my supervisor. Although I wasn't injured at work, my supervisor has been kind about keeping me on light duty. So basically right now I just feel like I am playing the waiting game. We will see what next MRI shows.....thanks again to all who have replied. You help me more than you know :)

Dawn,

These boards are a sanity saver. We have received so much help from all here. I mostly post on the FMS board.

Traction, Yes, I loved it. I had both cervical and lower back.

Just a note: The traction belt for my lower back wasn't put on properly , new type belt, well it slipped and ripped my lower abdominal muscles. I had to have surgey to fix it. Always question anything that dosen't feel right or that the person isn't accustom to. I did question but, they just said yep it's fine. Then because I didn't yell out or cry when it happened they said it only pulled the muscles. I went to my doc and had the emergency surgery.

But, I still would do traction again.

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Take care ~Kim & Gary~

Hello to everyone. I don't post here often, but I do visit quite a lot. This place really helps me cope! I just have one thing to ask - does everyone know what being in severe pain does to one's blood pressure? It makes mine sky rocket which is not good for the heart. In fact it can do some real damage. My cardiologist always told me (he has since retired) that being in pain is not good for my heart. There is absolutely not reason to suffer. I too refused to have another surgery and am now going to a pain management doc. I am taking ms-contin and lortab for pain and it is really helping. I start physical therapy (again) on MOnday and my pain doc thinks that this type of therapy will really help.
Just something to think about.
God bless all ! :)
Denise

Neuros belive in living with the pain or surgery at least the ones I met. If you don't want to do surgery and I can understand why, then look for another doctor or a pain manager. As you are not asking for much, your GP could give you the Vicodin.

Neuoros are very bad about pain. At least in my experience. Find another doctor. A pain manager or some other specialist. Try PT, shots, botox whatever it takes. Your GP might be willing to give you Vicodin. Some pain specialists take a multi-faceted approach. That might help you. I got some help out of botox and trigger shots.

I am on much stronger drugs and nobody is even considering surgery on me. Still I have terrible disabling pain.

I really have had a bad time with neuors. I was just told to "not think about it too much." If I had pain problems "I must have an emotional attachment to the pain."

Jane,

thanks for the reply. Well unfortunately, I have an HMO so I can't just go to another doc, wish to God that I could. Right now I am hurting so bad and I am going through opiate withdrawl on top of it all because I refuse to be humiliated into calling my doc again for meds. This sucks!! It hurts so bad I am considering ER., I am glad u understand why I am opting out of surgery. Who will take care of my baby while I recover? Just one of the many things I am asking myself about this operation. Thank you all for replying.
Dawn

Why can't you change docs on your HMO? My insurance is an HMO and when I changed PCP's and didn't like the one I went to, I called my insurance co and asked them what do I do if I don't like the doc I chose? They told me well just pick another one ! I said how often can I switch? As often as you like ! I would check it out ! No need for you to suffer. I would be complaining to someone http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif

Hang in there !
Denise

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HI i had the neck surgery and beleive me i know where you are coming from about not wanting it, everybody is different, it didn't work for me, i still have the same pain i had before and more because now i have the darn headaches to go with it. and still the pain down the arm and numbness and hurt in arm and hand. don't have the strength in the arm any more. YOu dont have any family that can help you with your baby,I know what you mean about the pain pill's i am on Soma and lortab have been since 1992 or 93, i can't even remember any more, I go back to the dr Thur to get my pill's refilled for 6 months, but he always ask these questions' and it makes me think he is wondering if i am hooked on these or not. I have pain and i know it sometimes i just sit and cry.take another pill, It has controled my life. I don't like that it does and the family get tired of me complaining that i hurt, but if they have a headache. they say how can you stand it. well i can't stand it, but talking to people like you and others helps me and taking the pain pill's i wish you luck and hope you get to feeling better, Donna S

Sorry, I didn't read carefully. I see you can't see anyone else unless it is out of pocket. I don't know if you could do that. Some clinics don't make you go that often, except at first. Once they get you on a stable dose.

I am sorry. I don't know how to show these guys that we really are in pain. I have an herniated disc and a positive EMG (not on same part of the body). My doctor is giving me pain killers for now. But who knows for how long.

Do you have someone you could bring with you to the doctor? It might help. You have to convice this guy the pain is real.You could try a new PCP's in you HMO. A new GP might authorize a pain clinic. It is all I can think of.

I am really sorry that you are in this bind.

hi, i am new and had a herniated disc in my neck ,
levels c-5 and c-6. it was so bad that they had to remove the disc. well i was fine for the first month.
until the nuero wanted to stop my lorcet. the pain came back. now i have what you can call chronic pain.
so far this new doc has been giving me my meds for the last 2 months. i have been taking this medication for 7 months.

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~tara~

There a couple more tests that your doctor could do. A pressure test and a myleogram. Neither one of these tests are fun. If your doctor doesn't want to do either one of these, then your pcp should want you to get a second opinion and if he doesn't, find another pcp!

Also, it could be your nerves. I have a chiropractor, who's been doing this for 22 years and who's on the board of directors for the Acpunture Society of America that deals mainly with accupressure, who helped my sister with her nerves.----
My sister had pain from neck down to her hands. She was even to the point where she started dropping things out of her hand. Doctor told her that she had carpel tunnel. I suggested to her before having surgery to go to my chiropractor. After her first appointment, she found out that she lost about 20 percent of grip in one hand and 15 in the other. Come to find out that it was her nerves from her neck down through her arms. After 3 months of treatments and acupressure, she was very pleased with the results and could hold things without dropping them. However, it's been 2 years and the pain is starting to come back. Hope this helps...

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Linda
linda534ss