Lei
10-20-2001, 12:39 PM
I am doing something wrong, I keep getting internal errors - maybe my post is too long - will try it in pieces.OK, I hope this doesn't post twice (there was an internal error).
Hi, everyone. A little calmer this morning. Sorry I kinda freaked out last night (on my other recent post).
PLEASE - may I get your your advice again? Your thoughts and experiences are SO important to me!I have a few more questions in this post. PLEASE FORGIVE ME.
Hey Rock, thank you for your reply. I agree with you so much about treatment we deserve, but there doesn't seem to be too many docs out there that do. I completely agree with Marge when she said in another post the crap we have to go through to feel what everybody else gets to feel everyday - just normal and just functioning.
I guess I just thought this doc would understand, since he was so willing to prescribe oxycontin on the first visit with no proof of anything, I figured he must realize how life-threatening chronic and severe pain can really be. Then he told me he really has no clue, he has never had pain. He said once in a while, he'll be watching a baseball game or something, and he'll remember that "oh, Johnny can't do that because of this or that causing him pain". Wow, that's a sudden epiphany. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif
Yes, thank you, Rock I am trying to be a little aggressive with him. As a matter of fact, the first time I went in, I said I'm tired of doctors giving one treatment of something, one script of 30 of something, then I'm on my own for the next 2 months before I can see them again, and if I'm in horrible pain, too bad, I'm on my own. Told him I needed a doc who would be with me every step of the way, and did he want to do that? Even when he did the treatment, and he said I can see you again in three weeks, and I said "ok", then he said "good, you're ok with that". I really thought he cared.
But it's like, he really expects me to get well, even "cured" with these treatments, and by some miracle I hope I do, but he seems not to have much patience if I don't respond, and I'm afraid he'll not believe me if I don't respond and ask for more meds or tests.
The last time I came in a little more educated about things because of all you guys, he made it clear that he's the doctor, and I said, "I know" and he said "I know more than you, a lot more". :nono:
I have never questioned him, I was just talking about getting an MRI, and that's when he said it might show something that may not be the cause of the pain, and then I would argue with him, but he's the doctor...etc. Since I don't know what else is wrong except degeneration, and I've been told the same thing, that many people have that with no problems, there is a good possibility that his treatments won't work. Gosh, I'm right back to we need tests to see more. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/idea.gif
And David put some fear in me about these injections, so I will be asking my NP to order an MRI Monday.
I did something else yesterday. I had seen a real pain specialist back in July, who gave me steroid shots on one side of my neck, (because it was too agressive to be given on both sides) and saw that the NP was prescribing Soma and Vicoprofen, and Maxalt for migraines, and said he wasn't going to do anything with my meds because I was on enough.
So, shots only on one side, then see ya for a month for shots on the other side next time, even though it should have been clear the meds were not helping, that's why I was seeing him. I only stopped seeing him because I was at he end of my rope, ready to lose my job and my life, and I needed help now, with my WHOLE neck and back. So I saw the doc I'm seeing now. Anyway, I made another appt. with the other doc, but it's not till December. He's one of those that is so booked you just can't get in to see him. You really can't get anywhere very fast with treatment on one side and not getting in to see him.
Please see next post for continuation!
Leisa
Hi, everyone. A little calmer this morning. Sorry I kinda freaked out last night (on my other recent post).
PLEASE - may I get your your advice again? Your thoughts and experiences are SO important to me!I have a few more questions in this post. PLEASE FORGIVE ME.
Hey Rock, thank you for your reply. I agree with you so much about treatment we deserve, but there doesn't seem to be too many docs out there that do. I completely agree with Marge when she said in another post the crap we have to go through to feel what everybody else gets to feel everyday - just normal and just functioning.
I guess I just thought this doc would understand, since he was so willing to prescribe oxycontin on the first visit with no proof of anything, I figured he must realize how life-threatening chronic and severe pain can really be. Then he told me he really has no clue, he has never had pain. He said once in a while, he'll be watching a baseball game or something, and he'll remember that "oh, Johnny can't do that because of this or that causing him pain". Wow, that's a sudden epiphany. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif
Yes, thank you, Rock I am trying to be a little aggressive with him. As a matter of fact, the first time I went in, I said I'm tired of doctors giving one treatment of something, one script of 30 of something, then I'm on my own for the next 2 months before I can see them again, and if I'm in horrible pain, too bad, I'm on my own. Told him I needed a doc who would be with me every step of the way, and did he want to do that? Even when he did the treatment, and he said I can see you again in three weeks, and I said "ok", then he said "good, you're ok with that". I really thought he cared.
But it's like, he really expects me to get well, even "cured" with these treatments, and by some miracle I hope I do, but he seems not to have much patience if I don't respond, and I'm afraid he'll not believe me if I don't respond and ask for more meds or tests.
The last time I came in a little more educated about things because of all you guys, he made it clear that he's the doctor, and I said, "I know" and he said "I know more than you, a lot more". :nono:
I have never questioned him, I was just talking about getting an MRI, and that's when he said it might show something that may not be the cause of the pain, and then I would argue with him, but he's the doctor...etc. Since I don't know what else is wrong except degeneration, and I've been told the same thing, that many people have that with no problems, there is a good possibility that his treatments won't work. Gosh, I'm right back to we need tests to see more. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/idea.gif
And David put some fear in me about these injections, so I will be asking my NP to order an MRI Monday.
I did something else yesterday. I had seen a real pain specialist back in July, who gave me steroid shots on one side of my neck, (because it was too agressive to be given on both sides) and saw that the NP was prescribing Soma and Vicoprofen, and Maxalt for migraines, and said he wasn't going to do anything with my meds because I was on enough.
So, shots only on one side, then see ya for a month for shots on the other side next time, even though it should have been clear the meds were not helping, that's why I was seeing him. I only stopped seeing him because I was at he end of my rope, ready to lose my job and my life, and I needed help now, with my WHOLE neck and back. So I saw the doc I'm seeing now. Anyway, I made another appt. with the other doc, but it's not till December. He's one of those that is so booked you just can't get in to see him. You really can't get anywhere very fast with treatment on one side and not getting in to see him.
Please see next post for continuation!
Leisa
Sponsor
Lei
10-20-2001, 12:48 PM
Sorry, boy do I ramble. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/gabby.gifI just really need to get things off my chest. I guess if I bore you to death, you can quit reading me!! ;)
http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/redface.gifI'm a little embarrassed about all this talking. I don't mean to be a pest with all these questions, but I really respect your advice, and you can see that I definitely take your advice VERY seriously, and act on it, and because the pain seriously affects my life so much (as you all are personally aware of), I REALLY need your help again, PLEASE! (if you guys have the time).
Some day I know I'll be able to help someone else as I have been helped - it finally happened in another area of my life, and it feels wonderful to make a positive difference in someone's life.
Your answers make a difference in my life. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif
********************
I am reading posts on the back problems forum, and looking up words and terms in a medical dictionary. I read about a pain diary, which I kept, but it was words. I read about the pain scales, and Fredo had mentioned a standard form. Is there a website that has a this standard form?
DAVID please(or anyone who has been on methadone)if you could tell me a little about methadone, if there's joint/muscle pain, side effects, good pain relief, I could really use that info, because very soon I may ask to be swithced, and he may feel better about that, and maybe I'll get enough to get real pain relief. It sounds like you feel it didn't work well for you? Maybe you have a much higher tolerance because you've been in pain management for longer than I?So do you think it might work better for someone like me? Also, how should I ask for an increase for the oxy - like when I talked about should I go from 20, 20, 20 to 40, 40, or would he probably keep it on a tid schedule, and should I ask for 20, 40, 20 - is this reasonable and appropriate? He doesn't want to write a script for 3 narcotics - oxy 10's, oxy 20's, and msir. I don't want to be unreasonable and look like I am seeking anything other than pain relief, and I'm afraid to offend him or sound inappropriate.
I hope you have found something helpful for yourself, David - have you? Also, I'm going to put a link to an article you may be interested in in the helpful links thread. It may not be "helpful" but it is a good article about a study with all the opiates and it goes by "steps" - from weaker to stronger opiates.
See next post!
http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/redface.gifI'm a little embarrassed about all this talking. I don't mean to be a pest with all these questions, but I really respect your advice, and you can see that I definitely take your advice VERY seriously, and act on it, and because the pain seriously affects my life so much (as you all are personally aware of), I REALLY need your help again, PLEASE! (if you guys have the time).
Some day I know I'll be able to help someone else as I have been helped - it finally happened in another area of my life, and it feels wonderful to make a positive difference in someone's life.
Your answers make a difference in my life. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif
********************
I am reading posts on the back problems forum, and looking up words and terms in a medical dictionary. I read about a pain diary, which I kept, but it was words. I read about the pain scales, and Fredo had mentioned a standard form. Is there a website that has a this standard form?
DAVID please(or anyone who has been on methadone)if you could tell me a little about methadone, if there's joint/muscle pain, side effects, good pain relief, I could really use that info, because very soon I may ask to be swithced, and he may feel better about that, and maybe I'll get enough to get real pain relief. It sounds like you feel it didn't work well for you? Maybe you have a much higher tolerance because you've been in pain management for longer than I?So do you think it might work better for someone like me? Also, how should I ask for an increase for the oxy - like when I talked about should I go from 20, 20, 20 to 40, 40, or would he probably keep it on a tid schedule, and should I ask for 20, 40, 20 - is this reasonable and appropriate? He doesn't want to write a script for 3 narcotics - oxy 10's, oxy 20's, and msir. I don't want to be unreasonable and look like I am seeking anything other than pain relief, and I'm afraid to offend him or sound inappropriate.
I hope you have found something helpful for yourself, David - have you? Also, I'm going to put a link to an article you may be interested in in the helpful links thread. It may not be "helpful" but it is a good article about a study with all the opiates and it goes by "steps" - from weaker to stronger opiates.
See next post!
Lei
10-20-2001, 12:50 PM
Dayna - Thank goodness for your answers! It really helps me. Maybe I can cut these in half and take 25mg to start? How are you doing anyway? I care about you, too. Oh, thank goodness some positive feedback, thank you! Marge, if you could let me know how much Elavil you're on, how much you started with, and side effects and how severe they are, because I may ask him to precribe a much lower dose at first. He's wrote for 50mg, start with one at bedtime, then in a week if I tolerate it , go to 2 (100mgs!) :eek: And - how are you doing now? Please let me know! I'm interested in your wellbeing too, ya know!
Jane - still no luck in finding out what causes your horrible muscle-spasms? I don't know how you do it. Like I said, I guess we are just forced to - if we don't want to do the alternative. How is your pain? Is it improving at all?? My doc gave me 5 msir's a month, 15mg, to take one daily. You know, it never touched this pain. Should one msir 15mg make SOME difference? I couldn't handle more oxycodone.
********************
:embarrassment: I hope no one is mad at me for my extrememly lengthy and horribly detailed and boring posts.
http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gifBut you have no idea the PEACE it gives me to be able to confide in you all, and the HOPE and COURAGE your answers to my questions give me. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif
Thank you all with all my heart. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/heart.gif
You are TRUE friends. Leisa
(I hope all these smiles turn out, or I'll be even more embarrassed!)
OH, GOSH, GUYS, PLEASE DON'T BE MAD AT ME, AND I WILL SHORTEN THE POSTS FROM NOW ON. SORRY!
Jane - still no luck in finding out what causes your horrible muscle-spasms? I don't know how you do it. Like I said, I guess we are just forced to - if we don't want to do the alternative. How is your pain? Is it improving at all?? My doc gave me 5 msir's a month, 15mg, to take one daily. You know, it never touched this pain. Should one msir 15mg make SOME difference? I couldn't handle more oxycodone.
********************
:embarrassment: I hope no one is mad at me for my extrememly lengthy and horribly detailed and boring posts.
http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gifBut you have no idea the PEACE it gives me to be able to confide in you all, and the HOPE and COURAGE your answers to my questions give me. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif
Thank you all with all my heart. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/heart.gif
You are TRUE friends. Leisa
(I hope all these smiles turn out, or I'll be even more embarrassed!)
OH, GOSH, GUYS, PLEASE DON'T BE MAD AT ME, AND I WILL SHORTEN THE POSTS FROM NOW ON. SORRY!
paI'min
10-20-2001, 01:47 PM
Lei,
You know, just thinking- usually dr. are the exact opposit about running tests and such, I think it has something to do with covering their own rear ends, you know if they are running tests and documenting then they are trying to find the root of the problem not just throwing prescriptions at you.
My dr who likes to lecture by using other patients as examples, ( I think I mentioned this before) told me the other day that they have a new policy - you miss two scheduled appointments or test that they have scheduled for you and you get fired from the practice- (I have never missed an appointment for anything as my health seems to be my life! ) so unless it is a hmo type insurance that you have where he is afraid of losing a bigger slice of his allocated pie or you were referred to him by a primary and he doesn't have the authority (with out going back to the primary) to send you for tests then I just don't get it! is it just that he thinks these injections of his are going to handle it all?
I hope you don't mind but what exactly is your "story"? I probably just missed the post where you talked about your experience. do you mind sharing with me what got you to this life of pain.
thats it - no answers just thinkin' out loud!
take care now!
Marge
You know, just thinking- usually dr. are the exact opposit about running tests and such, I think it has something to do with covering their own rear ends, you know if they are running tests and documenting then they are trying to find the root of the problem not just throwing prescriptions at you.
My dr who likes to lecture by using other patients as examples, ( I think I mentioned this before) told me the other day that they have a new policy - you miss two scheduled appointments or test that they have scheduled for you and you get fired from the practice- (I have never missed an appointment for anything as my health seems to be my life! ) so unless it is a hmo type insurance that you have where he is afraid of losing a bigger slice of his allocated pie or you were referred to him by a primary and he doesn't have the authority (with out going back to the primary) to send you for tests then I just don't get it! is it just that he thinks these injections of his are going to handle it all?
I hope you don't mind but what exactly is your "story"? I probably just missed the post where you talked about your experience. do you mind sharing with me what got you to this life of pain.
thats it - no answers just thinkin' out loud!
take care now!
Marge
dayna5
10-20-2001, 01:48 PM
Lei,
First and foremost, you must never, ever shorten your post. You have never posted a post that I have felt has been too long or "greedy" with your words. I love (really love) hearing what you have to say. Everyone loves to be needed and I, and I am sure everyone else, loves to hear how much you appreciate us. Noone understands what I do on this board. (family and friends) They ask all the time who I am writing to, or reading. Think I am writing email, I guess. Try to explain that this is a posting board. Still don't get it. How about a "venting" board, then their eyes light up...oh...I see. That is what we do here. We vent, we cry, we complain, we share, we learn, we also learn to love others, even people we haven't met because they share things that most don't...pain.
It is so hard to explain to someone who asks what's wrong with you, and you reply, "back hurts", than they look at you, again...like because we feel it every day, we should get used to it. When i used to get migrains everyday, people really thought that I should be used to the fact that it was a normal thing...just except it, what's the difference, you have one everyday. Well guess what??? Whether I have one once a month, or twice a week, or every day....they still hurt. Yes, we do sort of get used to them, and except the fact that we have to live with it, but it doesn't change the fact that it HURTS!!!!!!!!
Lei, you are so sweet, that people can't help but care about you. Actually everyone here has a personality that is special. (like the rock, rocks this place) And everyone turns to David, because he has so much experience and always takes the time to share it. Everyone (not meaning to leave anyone out) has a quality in here, that makes it work. Kind of like a family. Now everyone knows I have five kids, but you would think that they would be sort of alike, but weird thing is, not one of them is. Some of them are very serious and caring, one is a wise a*#, but he keeps us on our toes, the other is funny as hell, but they all make this family work...just like this board.
Please don't ever apologize for being you and needing help. Cuz if we all didn't need help, we wouldn't be here. So don't, please don't, ever change cuz we love you the way you are. Post three pages if you want, cuz you are funny and cute and I love to read what you have to say.
Sorry for the long post, Just kidding,
dayna :angel:
First and foremost, you must never, ever shorten your post. You have never posted a post that I have felt has been too long or "greedy" with your words. I love (really love) hearing what you have to say. Everyone loves to be needed and I, and I am sure everyone else, loves to hear how much you appreciate us. Noone understands what I do on this board. (family and friends) They ask all the time who I am writing to, or reading. Think I am writing email, I guess. Try to explain that this is a posting board. Still don't get it. How about a "venting" board, then their eyes light up...oh...I see. That is what we do here. We vent, we cry, we complain, we share, we learn, we also learn to love others, even people we haven't met because they share things that most don't...pain.
It is so hard to explain to someone who asks what's wrong with you, and you reply, "back hurts", than they look at you, again...like because we feel it every day, we should get used to it. When i used to get migrains everyday, people really thought that I should be used to the fact that it was a normal thing...just except it, what's the difference, you have one everyday. Well guess what??? Whether I have one once a month, or twice a week, or every day....they still hurt. Yes, we do sort of get used to them, and except the fact that we have to live with it, but it doesn't change the fact that it HURTS!!!!!!!!
Lei, you are so sweet, that people can't help but care about you. Actually everyone here has a personality that is special. (like the rock, rocks this place) And everyone turns to David, because he has so much experience and always takes the time to share it. Everyone (not meaning to leave anyone out) has a quality in here, that makes it work. Kind of like a family. Now everyone knows I have five kids, but you would think that they would be sort of alike, but weird thing is, not one of them is. Some of them are very serious and caring, one is a wise a*#, but he keeps us on our toes, the other is funny as hell, but they all make this family work...just like this board.
Please don't ever apologize for being you and needing help. Cuz if we all didn't need help, we wouldn't be here. So don't, please don't, ever change cuz we love you the way you are. Post three pages if you want, cuz you are funny and cute and I love to read what you have to say.
Sorry for the long post, Just kidding,
dayna :angel:
Lei
10-20-2001, 02:21 PM
You guys! First you made me cry (because you're so caring and kind), and then DAYNA - I swear, it's getting to be that EVERYTIME I get done reading your posts I'm laughing! Oh, what that does for me! Girl, you are a riot!!! Thank you!
And you are so right about everyone making it work - it would not be the same with one of us missing! I am so thankful to listen to you guys, because like I said, right now it's like I'm really depressed, like I haven't been for some time. Hope this elavil does it's antidepressant thing too. I have a counselor I love, but an hour every 2 weeks just isn't enough - we always run over.
I would be happy to share my story. I'm kinda new here, too, do most of it is already on my few (but loooong) posts. Just look where "Lei" is the "author" and you'll get a lot from that. Thank you for your interest!
I will tell you more, but I'm doing somethiing I really need to do right this minute - go home to mom and dad!! They live about 1 hr and 45 minutes away, so I should get going - Marge - PLEASE don't take this as being rude - I would never be - I just don't spend much time withem and they are great for my depression!! We're going to carve pumpkins and bake the seeds - I haven't done that for about 15 years! I'm going home to be a kid this weekend!!! I'm so excited! They have a computer that I may get on tonight. They are going out to dinner with a couple and I don't really want to go, so I might get on-line.
You guys, you re sooo wonderful, and so caring, and you need to know what really, truly special human beings you are. You know, everyone in this particular forum has really got it together as far as kindness and compassion - I read other forums on this site, and others out there, and there is sarcasm, and unkind words, and worse. I thank God I found you all - I am very lucky to have you!!!
Take care and have a pain free day!! Love you guys!! Leisa
And you are so right about everyone making it work - it would not be the same with one of us missing! I am so thankful to listen to you guys, because like I said, right now it's like I'm really depressed, like I haven't been for some time. Hope this elavil does it's antidepressant thing too. I have a counselor I love, but an hour every 2 weeks just isn't enough - we always run over.
I would be happy to share my story. I'm kinda new here, too, do most of it is already on my few (but loooong) posts. Just look where "Lei" is the "author" and you'll get a lot from that. Thank you for your interest!
I will tell you more, but I'm doing somethiing I really need to do right this minute - go home to mom and dad!! They live about 1 hr and 45 minutes away, so I should get going - Marge - PLEASE don't take this as being rude - I would never be - I just don't spend much time withem and they are great for my depression!! We're going to carve pumpkins and bake the seeds - I haven't done that for about 15 years! I'm going home to be a kid this weekend!!! I'm so excited! They have a computer that I may get on tonight. They are going out to dinner with a couple and I don't really want to go, so I might get on-line.
You guys, you re sooo wonderful, and so caring, and you need to know what really, truly special human beings you are. You know, everyone in this particular forum has really got it together as far as kindness and compassion - I read other forums on this site, and others out there, and there is sarcasm, and unkind words, and worse. I thank God I found you all - I am very lucky to have you!!!
Take care and have a pain free day!! Love you guys!! Leisa
Lei
10-20-2001, 02:23 PM
Oh, Dayna - I forgot - how did you like all my smiles?!
Leisa http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/dance.gif
Leisa http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/dance.gif
david charles
10-20-2001, 02:46 PM
Hey Lei, I took meth for about 10 months. the last 6 months I was 120mgs a day. It was prescribed 40mgX3 however it worked better for me at 30X4. I wasn't able to go 8 hours between doses.
It actually worked very well for pain. However even staying at the same dose the side effects continued to worsen. The worst was somnelence. I wasn't happy,wasn't sad, really didn't feel anything emotion wise. I just felt crappy all the time.
As far as availabilty. The name brand Dolophine is available in 20 and 40mg Discettes, They are scored and breakable and meant to be disolved in water or juice or swallowed whole. I always took the generic which is only available in 5 and 10mg strength. This meant I was to take 12 10's a day. With that flexability I was able to devide the doses and schedule it the way it worked best. I actually took it every 4 hours, 7,11,3,and 7. Each dose would build upon the prior dose and acumulate through the day. By the nighttime I was able to coast through the night.
One other tip, There are several manufactures of generic meth. I had taken the Roxane product for 6 months and one script was filled with the Methadose product. I experienced withdrawal for 3 weeks from that crap. At another forum another member went through the same thing. She had one of her 10mg methadose pills tested in a lab. It came back with bearly 8mgs in the pill. The generic laws allow for plus or minus 20% to be considered equivilent. However if your used to taking 120mgs a day and all of a sudden your taking 95-100mgs the difference is great enough to cause w/d symptoms. I guess if you started on Methadose and stayed with it you would never have a problem. I truly believe the Roxane product was far suppeior in strength. If the roxanne product was plus 10 and the methadose minus 20 that's even a greater difference. So if you have the option of switching to meth use the Roxane, and the 10mg pills will allow you to develop a dosing schedule that suite you best. I switched for financial reasons and script benefit caps.
Now I don't have a cap and can take what I want.
I would hate to go back to meth. The side effects that bothered me may not effect you at all. I also think the higher the dose the more likely you will have a problem with Side effects.
Most conversions have it 2:3 being stronger than oxy. However with your docs squirlyness I would be very leary of starting a med like meth without the confidence that he will be able to maintain your monthly doses. It's not something you want to try for 2-3 months and switch again unless you decide the side effects are unbearable. Find a doc you can trust and don't have to wonder what's going to happen next month.
Yes it's a very good pain med. It really comes down to tolerable side effects. The other concern is the conversion rates. Most conversions have it 3X stronger than morphine. However I have run across several articles and studdies that believe it is closer to 10X stronger than morph. I'm starting to believe that rule. It definately drove my tolerance through the roof. I'm finally comfortable again at 600mgs of morphine plus 30mg roxi for BT meds.
It was a horriable transition from meth to Kadian. I experienced severe withdrawal that only time would allow it to pass. It's a very difficult med to discontinue even when switching to a high dose of another powerful opiate. Meth is unique in it's action on the brain and no other opiate will really replace what it does. Now I know why addicts stay on Meth maint. for years. It's terriably hard to discontinue. Pain went through the roof and my brain was fried for weeks. Now I have this monster tolerance from taking meth too.
I did sweat alot on the meth and it totally killed any libido. Fortunately that returned in the last couple weeks. Good luck and don't allow this doc who knows more even though he's never experienced pain to have the kind of controll over you that he obviously enjoys. Find a new doc.
Giving you a month worth of meds to see if it makes a difference and not continueing it is a sure bet you will experience withdrawal over and over with this guys style and compassion. I would say it's definately time to start looking for a new doc. It sounds like the oxy may have worked at the right dose but switching meds every month because he didn't nail it the first time is very telling about your present doc.
Run, run like the wind from this guys clutches.I have a feeling as soon as you refuse your next injection he will no longer treat you with meds. Take care, David
It actually worked very well for pain. However even staying at the same dose the side effects continued to worsen. The worst was somnelence. I wasn't happy,wasn't sad, really didn't feel anything emotion wise. I just felt crappy all the time.
As far as availabilty. The name brand Dolophine is available in 20 and 40mg Discettes, They are scored and breakable and meant to be disolved in water or juice or swallowed whole. I always took the generic which is only available in 5 and 10mg strength. This meant I was to take 12 10's a day. With that flexability I was able to devide the doses and schedule it the way it worked best. I actually took it every 4 hours, 7,11,3,and 7. Each dose would build upon the prior dose and acumulate through the day. By the nighttime I was able to coast through the night.
One other tip, There are several manufactures of generic meth. I had taken the Roxane product for 6 months and one script was filled with the Methadose product. I experienced withdrawal for 3 weeks from that crap. At another forum another member went through the same thing. She had one of her 10mg methadose pills tested in a lab. It came back with bearly 8mgs in the pill. The generic laws allow for plus or minus 20% to be considered equivilent. However if your used to taking 120mgs a day and all of a sudden your taking 95-100mgs the difference is great enough to cause w/d symptoms. I guess if you started on Methadose and stayed with it you would never have a problem. I truly believe the Roxane product was far suppeior in strength. If the roxanne product was plus 10 and the methadose minus 20 that's even a greater difference. So if you have the option of switching to meth use the Roxane, and the 10mg pills will allow you to develop a dosing schedule that suite you best. I switched for financial reasons and script benefit caps.
Now I don't have a cap and can take what I want.
I would hate to go back to meth. The side effects that bothered me may not effect you at all. I also think the higher the dose the more likely you will have a problem with Side effects.
Most conversions have it 2:3 being stronger than oxy. However with your docs squirlyness I would be very leary of starting a med like meth without the confidence that he will be able to maintain your monthly doses. It's not something you want to try for 2-3 months and switch again unless you decide the side effects are unbearable. Find a doc you can trust and don't have to wonder what's going to happen next month.
Yes it's a very good pain med. It really comes down to tolerable side effects. The other concern is the conversion rates. Most conversions have it 3X stronger than morphine. However I have run across several articles and studdies that believe it is closer to 10X stronger than morph. I'm starting to believe that rule. It definately drove my tolerance through the roof. I'm finally comfortable again at 600mgs of morphine plus 30mg roxi for BT meds.
It was a horriable transition from meth to Kadian. I experienced severe withdrawal that only time would allow it to pass. It's a very difficult med to discontinue even when switching to a high dose of another powerful opiate. Meth is unique in it's action on the brain and no other opiate will really replace what it does. Now I know why addicts stay on Meth maint. for years. It's terriably hard to discontinue. Pain went through the roof and my brain was fried for weeks. Now I have this monster tolerance from taking meth too.
I did sweat alot on the meth and it totally killed any libido. Fortunately that returned in the last couple weeks. Good luck and don't allow this doc who knows more even though he's never experienced pain to have the kind of controll over you that he obviously enjoys. Find a new doc.
Giving you a month worth of meds to see if it makes a difference and not continueing it is a sure bet you will experience withdrawal over and over with this guys style and compassion. I would say it's definately time to start looking for a new doc. It sounds like the oxy may have worked at the right dose but switching meds every month because he didn't nail it the first time is very telling about your present doc.
Run, run like the wind from this guys clutches.I have a feeling as soon as you refuse your next injection he will no longer treat you with meds. Take care, David
The Rock
10-20-2001, 02:47 PM
"I know more than you, alot more"....did he really say that to you? No one knows more about you than you, and you should take the chance to tell him that. And i agree with the fact that if he does'nt seem to really think you need alot more in-depth treatment such as test like an MRI or surgery, then why be willing to place you on long acting narcotics designed for chronic pain such as oxycontin? That just does not make any sense to me at all! is he there to give care and the best treatment he can or create addicts? I'm not saying you are an addict at all, all i mean is he seems to be alot more free with the meds then with care or understanding. Well more then often the way i would react to a jerk like this would be ill-advised so i won't try to offer any advice on that, but i hope i can provide some encouragement just by letting you know that i really hope you get the care you deserve and need and that your able to keep your pain levels as low as possible until you do and also tolerate the stress and frustration of this situation while waiting on this guy to really start listening to you and helping you. Eventually all things bad take a turn for the better and one day you'll look back on this as a bad memory, and i hope its very soon for your sake. It was good to hear you were feeling better today. I also come here for advice, the members here are very careing,very smart people and i always come away from here knowing something new or atleast reading something that makes me laugh or puts a smile on my face. I hope you have a great weekend and stay on that guys tail until he provides the care you feel you need.
P.S..oh by the way Dayna, when makeing the referrence of family to this board...am i the wise a*% child who keeps you on your toes or the one who makes you laugh?
P.S..oh by the way Dayna, when makeing the referrence of family to this board...am i the wise a*% child who keeps you on your toes or the one who makes you laugh?
jane2
10-20-2001, 03:16 PM
Sometimes doctors get discouraged when you are not getting better and get all weird on you. Then the next time you see them, they are on the case again. He may want to be the one to suggest more tests. They are human too and have bad days. So, if he was nice to begin with there might be hope.
But my gut tells me this guy is a jerk. So keep looking. Just don't get scripts from 2 doctors. Will get you in trouble.
I get up to 3 15 MSIR a day. I take them on top of 3 15 MG MS Contins a day. One MSIR and one MS Contin do knock out my pain for bit. The MS IR/MS Contin combo gets me too high. I only use it in pinch. Would rather take more MS Contin on the bad days.
But my gut tells me this guy is a jerk. So keep looking. Just don't get scripts from 2 doctors. Will get you in trouble.
I get up to 3 15 MSIR a day. I take them on top of 3 15 MG MS Contins a day. One MSIR and one MS Contin do knock out my pain for bit. The MS IR/MS Contin combo gets me too high. I only use it in pinch. Would rather take more MS Contin on the bad days.
dayna5
10-20-2001, 04:54 PM
Rock,
What would we do without you?????
We love you, you are actually always cracking us up and always keeping us on our toes, I should start calling you Ryan (that would be my wise a*# son)
Love,
Dayna :angel:
Lei,
I love your smilies, you put them is the most appropriate places...got that down fast, huh?
Have fun, I think we are going to do the pumpkin thing this weekend too....i can't wait...halloween is my most favorite holiday...we are going to have the hugest halloween party for my kids. We allowed each kids to bring a couple of friends, found out my fourteen year old invited half the football team, were did she get her nerve????? Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What would we do without you?????
We love you, you are actually always cracking us up and always keeping us on our toes, I should start calling you Ryan (that would be my wise a*# son)
Love,
Dayna :angel:
Lei,
I love your smilies, you put them is the most appropriate places...got that down fast, huh?
Have fun, I think we are going to do the pumpkin thing this weekend too....i can't wait...halloween is my most favorite holiday...we are going to have the hugest halloween party for my kids. We allowed each kids to bring a couple of friends, found out my fourteen year old invited half the football team, were did she get her nerve????? Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Allen
10-20-2001, 07:00 PM
Hey Lei: don't apologize for your posts. We're different than people who ask,"How are you doing?", but if you try to answer their eyes glaze over with boredom. We do understand...When I finally got on the net and found groups like this and realized people were fighting some of the same battles, one of the immediate benefits was a reduction in FEAR. I would lie in bed full of terror and dread...I am doing much better, because often fear thrives on ignorance and lack of understanding support. Don't you give up--you sound like a real fighter. You're in my thots and prayers, Al
david charles
10-20-2001, 07:00 PM
Hey Lei, I forgot to explain why meth acumulates. It has a very long half life. about 29 hours. This is why they can use it for deox. They can switch someone to once a day dosing and prevent withdrawal.
However for pain management it should be dosed every 4-6 hours. I could feel it wearing off a bit at 4 and it worked well taking it the way I did. But with the long half life it takes several days to build up to the prescribed level. Taking 40 mgs today would leave a good 20 still in your system tommorrow. Tomorrow's 40 would add to the 20 left from the day before.
Withdrawal takes several days to start from meth because it takes so long to get it out of your system. It also hinders the euphoric effects of other meds. By doing so it can make other meds much less effective.
I switched cold turkey with no taper, I really think a taper would have stayed the w/d off a few extra days but would have prolonged the w/d.
In blocking the euphoric effects it really deminishes some of the other opiates power to change the perception of pain. A considerable part of the action of Morphine is they way it changes your perception of pain. Without that I didn't feel the morphine would have a true chance to work.
I do think the meth in my systemm blocked alot of the morphines action for several weeks after I discontinued the meth. So I really see meth as a long term comitment and you have to have a doctor that understands meth and how it works.
I just had to fill in some blanks. I really hope you get things under control and find a doc you can work with. Take care, David
However for pain management it should be dosed every 4-6 hours. I could feel it wearing off a bit at 4 and it worked well taking it the way I did. But with the long half life it takes several days to build up to the prescribed level. Taking 40 mgs today would leave a good 20 still in your system tommorrow. Tomorrow's 40 would add to the 20 left from the day before.
Withdrawal takes several days to start from meth because it takes so long to get it out of your system. It also hinders the euphoric effects of other meds. By doing so it can make other meds much less effective.
I switched cold turkey with no taper, I really think a taper would have stayed the w/d off a few extra days but would have prolonged the w/d.
In blocking the euphoric effects it really deminishes some of the other opiates power to change the perception of pain. A considerable part of the action of Morphine is they way it changes your perception of pain. Without that I didn't feel the morphine would have a true chance to work.
I do think the meth in my systemm blocked alot of the morphines action for several weeks after I discontinued the meth. So I really see meth as a long term comitment and you have to have a doctor that understands meth and how it works.
I just had to fill in some blanks. I really hope you get things under control and find a doc you can work with. Take care, David
jane2
10-20-2001, 07:49 PM
David: I was just wondering do you like the morphine now? How does it compare with the meth in the end? I know the process you went through was a killer. Just hoping it worked out and that you are feeling better.
Good warning for anyone considering meth.
Good warning for anyone considering meth.
FREDO
10-20-2001, 11:54 PM
Good Evening to All - Hope you don't mind my two cents worth?
Up for general discussion - I was on Meth for three months at the 30/40 mg per day dose. David, I don't think that was high enough to incite the kind of S/E's you were getting. I got good solid pain relief after about the fourth day - best pain relief of any narc so far tried. BUT - could not sleep on this med for more than two hrs, no matter what the docs tacked on - Ambien, Amitrips, nothing. So to save my sanity, I asked for something else.
Leisa - That would be another thing to well remember: Do NOT ask for a specific narcotic; makes true docs paranoid that you have a "alternate" plan. We, as CP'ers are only to ask for pain relief, not to care what form/name it takes. Unless you have documented proof of adverse medical reaction to one, please believe me that a pain doc that is good at what they do is going to perc thier ears up if they hear you ask for 160mg Oxy to start on. Check with other folks here, it is another "unwritten rule".
You are certainly entitled to request your docs feelings on giving you a "bump" of your present med.
It has been my experience of Oxy bumps as follows (this is going from 40mg Meth{10mg x 4}, and I totally concur w/David about Roxane being the best Gen.; Methodose sucks)
Start: 40 x 2 daily for 6 weeks
40 x 3 daily for 3 weeks
60 / 60 / 40 at present after only 2d doc consult, all others done via nurse over the phone (they do A LOT of thier business via phone; my doc is booked 8 mos out; I just got lucky the psych and I got along - no bull$hit)
Hope some of this helps - the absolutely hardest things I learned in seeking help (I was never good at that) as a CP patient; was being patient about getting med increases; keeping STRICTLY on schedule the doc had ordered; and am still getting used to the fact that 50/60% pain relief is as good as it is going to get for me for a loooooong time.
As far as taking Amitrips for sleep/calming, the drug of choice for this months contest is Paxil. A good SSRI (found to be effective on nerve pain), but also a bear to w/d from according to some. I'm staying on the low dose of 20mg/daily as long as possible.
Best med I found for sleep is Skelaxin (400mg tabs, I'm supposed to take 3 x daily), knocks me on my a$$ bigtime. Its a muscle relaxer, and man-o-man, it relaxes me.
Later folks, nice to see all playing nice in the sandbox, Rock'in A., David, Allen and the ladies -
have a great evening -
------------------
FREDO
Up for general discussion - I was on Meth for three months at the 30/40 mg per day dose. David, I don't think that was high enough to incite the kind of S/E's you were getting. I got good solid pain relief after about the fourth day - best pain relief of any narc so far tried. BUT - could not sleep on this med for more than two hrs, no matter what the docs tacked on - Ambien, Amitrips, nothing. So to save my sanity, I asked for something else.
Leisa - That would be another thing to well remember: Do NOT ask for a specific narcotic; makes true docs paranoid that you have a "alternate" plan. We, as CP'ers are only to ask for pain relief, not to care what form/name it takes. Unless you have documented proof of adverse medical reaction to one, please believe me that a pain doc that is good at what they do is going to perc thier ears up if they hear you ask for 160mg Oxy to start on. Check with other folks here, it is another "unwritten rule".
You are certainly entitled to request your docs feelings on giving you a "bump" of your present med.
It has been my experience of Oxy bumps as follows (this is going from 40mg Meth{10mg x 4}, and I totally concur w/David about Roxane being the best Gen.; Methodose sucks)
Start: 40 x 2 daily for 6 weeks
40 x 3 daily for 3 weeks
60 / 60 / 40 at present after only 2d doc consult, all others done via nurse over the phone (they do A LOT of thier business via phone; my doc is booked 8 mos out; I just got lucky the psych and I got along - no bull$hit)
Hope some of this helps - the absolutely hardest things I learned in seeking help (I was never good at that) as a CP patient; was being patient about getting med increases; keeping STRICTLY on schedule the doc had ordered; and am still getting used to the fact that 50/60% pain relief is as good as it is going to get for me for a loooooong time.
As far as taking Amitrips for sleep/calming, the drug of choice for this months contest is Paxil. A good SSRI (found to be effective on nerve pain), but also a bear to w/d from according to some. I'm staying on the low dose of 20mg/daily as long as possible.
Best med I found for sleep is Skelaxin (400mg tabs, I'm supposed to take 3 x daily), knocks me on my a$$ bigtime. Its a muscle relaxer, and man-o-man, it relaxes me.
Later folks, nice to see all playing nice in the sandbox, Rock'in A., David, Allen and the ladies -
have a great evening -
------------------
FREDO
jane2
10-21-2001, 11:26 AM
Freedo is right. Never ask for anything specific.
As this guy has ego problems, acting like a bimbo might help.
"Oh I feel so wired on Oxy. and am still in so much pain. Is that normal?" Giggle.
"I wanted your most esteemed and expert opinion on what I should do? Is the Oxy not working or am I getting worse?"
Play with your hair.
"You want me to take some test. OK. What's an MRI?"
"Are there other pain killers? Really! I had no idea there were so many. Are they all the same? Gosh it is all so confusing. What would I do without your expert guidance?"
Stare vacantly.
"What about ..."
Just kidding. But I do think this guy has an ego problem. So suggesting the MRI made him flip. I have a female doctor and for the first time and am actaully believed 100%.
Actually I have some very fine male doctors. This just doesn't sound like one. Doubt he would laugh at a male patient the same way somehow. Do think some male doctors just don't believe females can report on their symptoms. They think everything is hormonal, except when you complain about PMS. So sometimes I play down to their expectations a bit.
As this guy has ego problems, acting like a bimbo might help.
"Oh I feel so wired on Oxy. and am still in so much pain. Is that normal?" Giggle.
"I wanted your most esteemed and expert opinion on what I should do? Is the Oxy not working or am I getting worse?"
Play with your hair.
"You want me to take some test. OK. What's an MRI?"
"Are there other pain killers? Really! I had no idea there were so many. Are they all the same? Gosh it is all so confusing. What would I do without your expert guidance?"
Stare vacantly.
"What about ..."
Just kidding. But I do think this guy has an ego problem. So suggesting the MRI made him flip. I have a female doctor and for the first time and am actaully believed 100%.
Actually I have some very fine male doctors. This just doesn't sound like one. Doubt he would laugh at a male patient the same way somehow. Do think some male doctors just don't believe females can report on their symptoms. They think everything is hormonal, except when you complain about PMS. So sometimes I play down to their expectations a bit.
david charles
10-21-2001, 11:31 AM
Hey Jane, I can't really say I like morphine but it's working as well as I can Hope for. I don't have the same side effects that I did with meth. My head is much clearer and I don't feel like lump sitting on the couch.
I've been able to keep up with everything since the last increase. I can go longer before having to lay down. The only bothersome side effect is the lack of sleep. For some reason I just wander the house at night half awake /half asleep. Jenelle doesn't like that because I smoke and I did burn my thigh again. fortunatey I can't feel my thighs, or unfortunately??
I'm really astounded by my own tolerance. I use 30mg Roxicodone for BT pain and I swear half are duds.LOL I know that's not likely but the meth did a real number on my tolerance.
Like someone else said, we are a different population of people where normal dosing perameters don't apply. It's hard for some docs to understand how you can take 600mgs of morph and still have a cognative thought. let alone my wife. But I do feel much more normal on morph and I'm not nodding off every afternoon from the meth. I'm really hoping I can stay at this dose for a year. That's really just a time frame I created to make my wife happy.
I also have to realize that this may be as good as it gets.I think that's something we all struggle with. When is enough pain relief enough. You have to balance the meds to where they are not decreasing function from over sedation. I'm functioning at a much higher level than ever before. However, I pay for it in the evening.
30mgs of roxi for BT sounds like plenty but if you use the 1/4 to 1/3 the BID rule I should have something stronger available for BT pain. I'm thinking about oxyfast. Most folks I know are pretty pleased with it. So maybe that will be the final adjustment and I'll have to be satisfied. Thanks for asking. I hope everyone had a good weekend and had more good hours than bad. Take care, David
I've been able to keep up with everything since the last increase. I can go longer before having to lay down. The only bothersome side effect is the lack of sleep. For some reason I just wander the house at night half awake /half asleep. Jenelle doesn't like that because I smoke and I did burn my thigh again. fortunatey I can't feel my thighs, or unfortunately??
I'm really astounded by my own tolerance. I use 30mg Roxicodone for BT pain and I swear half are duds.LOL I know that's not likely but the meth did a real number on my tolerance.
Like someone else said, we are a different population of people where normal dosing perameters don't apply. It's hard for some docs to understand how you can take 600mgs of morph and still have a cognative thought. let alone my wife. But I do feel much more normal on morph and I'm not nodding off every afternoon from the meth. I'm really hoping I can stay at this dose for a year. That's really just a time frame I created to make my wife happy.
I also have to realize that this may be as good as it gets.I think that's something we all struggle with. When is enough pain relief enough. You have to balance the meds to where they are not decreasing function from over sedation. I'm functioning at a much higher level than ever before. However, I pay for it in the evening.
30mgs of roxi for BT sounds like plenty but if you use the 1/4 to 1/3 the BID rule I should have something stronger available for BT pain. I'm thinking about oxyfast. Most folks I know are pretty pleased with it. So maybe that will be the final adjustment and I'll have to be satisfied. Thanks for asking. I hope everyone had a good weekend and had more good hours than bad. Take care, David
jane2
10-21-2001, 11:54 PM
David: I was just wondering how you are.
I was also curious because I switched from OxyContin to MS Contin. I do feel much more like myself as well. Others concur. It gets me to a pain level I can live with. I don't like being on any of these drugs, but I feel that the morphine switch was a good decision.
Just wondering how you were doing.
Lei: Hope you are doing ok. I was feeling silly this morning. Not really giving helpful advice. Just comic relief.
It is so hard to be at the stage you are at. Finding the right doctor and the best treatment. It is a very frustrating process. All I can say is we will try to help you get it through the process. Just takes some time, which is hard to accept when you are in pain. It will get better.
I was also curious because I switched from OxyContin to MS Contin. I do feel much more like myself as well. Others concur. It gets me to a pain level I can live with. I don't like being on any of these drugs, but I feel that the morphine switch was a good decision.
Just wondering how you were doing.
Lei: Hope you are doing ok. I was feeling silly this morning. Not really giving helpful advice. Just comic relief.
It is so hard to be at the stage you are at. Finding the right doctor and the best treatment. It is a very frustrating process. All I can say is we will try to help you get it through the process. Just takes some time, which is hard to accept when you are in pain. It will get better.
The Rock
10-22-2001, 07:12 PM
Jane,
I was laughing my a%$ off reading that reply...too bad it does'nt work for men!
I was laughing my a%$ off reading that reply...too bad it does'nt work for men!
Lei
10-22-2001, 11:02 PM
Hi everyone, - I don't know how to express my deep feeling of such gratitude to you all. I am stunned by the level of your compassion, kindness, caring, encouragement and comic relief! But not surprised by it. Surprised to have so many wonderful people actually care about me.
I want you all to know I care very much about you all, and I intend to be there for you all as much as you have been for me, Yes, I DO believe I can make it with you guys. Man what a difference it makes in a life to have so much help and support. You have probably all experienced the joy in your heart, from others here as well!
Jane - don't feel silly - well, feel happy/silly because of your post being so hilarious- but not because you thought it was of no help - TRUST ME - I was rolling. It helped!!! I would think of it spontaneously throughout the day, and crack up out loud!
Marge, my doctor is not part of an HMO. It is real weird that he doesn't order me tests. The way he talks, it's like he blames the patient for costing the insurance companies money. He did say "someone is paying for it - the insurance company". Maybe he thinks if everybody cut down on tests and expensive scripts, something would happen - yeah, people would get much less good health care - there are reasons for tests, and meds, but it's not the patients fault the meds are so expensive. It's like he's trying to save insurance companies money, why is beyond me and no one I've talked to gets it.
I have had migraine and tension headaches for 24 years, along with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, which definitely disables me to where I couldn't work, but I was married then, so it wasn't a problem financially (emotionally a big problem). I've had other weird things, too, like systemic yeast infection - meaning it was in my blood, and people who get that are usually almost lifeless as far as energy. Then I was a passenger in a car accident in which I had not put my seatbelt on yet, and flew into the windshield sideways, my head hitting the windshield and my ribs hitting the dashboard. About 10 days of the most unbelievable pain, then about a months after that, constant horrible head and neck pain, and ever since, moving down my back and worsening. X-rays showed degeneration in my lower cervical spine and thoracic spine, but the worse pain is actually like c1-c2.
You how there are "lemon" cars? I think I am a "lemon" human!
As far as his ego and such - I just found out from a friend whose family has seen this doc, that he is a fundamentalist Christain (the Christian part is ok, not the fundamentalist). This means he believes women are "less than", (i.e. stupider, not as human, etc) so you all hit it right on the head with this guy.
I have another appointment with a pain doctor (I think he is) who is on the board of a disability organization that deals with all types of disabled people and how to help them survive in society - from mentally disabled to physically disabled. He's the one who started with my steroid injections, but as I said, I couldn't wait any longer for pain relief, so I went to this doctor who I heard would prescribe medication. But I went to him for complete treatment, and that is what I asked him for on my first visit - tests, try to find the source of the pain, treat it, be with me every step of the way, and he agreed. It's not happening.
You know, Dayna, Rock, Allen, Jane, David, Fredo,Marge - I can hear real honest understanding in each of your posts, and I can't believe how absolutely exact and true your feelings and observations are about us chronic painers. THANK GOD we have each other, because you are all so right when you say no on else understands us and our problems, because only those who are in our shoes can, if you think about it. People can try to put themselves in our place and allow themselves to really think about what it would be like to be in pain 24/7 (and that's the compassionate people - most wouldn't bother) but in reality, we are the only ones who feel the damage it does to us physically and emotionally.
Your posts were so meaningful to me, that I have them saved on like a file that I can just go to and open and read anytime I need support, encouragement and reassurance. I would love to repond to each of your posts and every sentence of what you said, because I do have something to say about them all, but I don't want to do it all at this minute - it would be the longest post in the history of this forum! And you all would take back what you said about me not shortening my posts, and not worrying about how long they were - uh, huh, yes you would!!!
PLEASE - I want each of you to know that I have read your posts more than 3 times so far, and they mean so much to me. I will be re-reading them again and again to be sure. You are such awesome human being, I think you are all part angel/ part human. You certainly act it.
David, Fredo and other meth users/ex-users - I think I'll pass on the meth. I seem to be having a hard time stayig stable and pain-free on my meds now, I won't risk the hell of meth you have decribed. Thank you for that very invaluable information. You both took so much time to explain all that to me, and you have probably saved me from the hell you both went through, and I am so sorry you went through that, and that sucks that it affects other opiates. Yes, you have certainly saved me from a terrible experience, it sounds like.
I know I babbled so much I probably wasn't very clear on some things I said. It was the doc's suggestion to put me on meth, due to the low street value, I believe. He had just told me about a patient whose "friend" stole the safe he had his oxy in, so he switched the patient to meth because it has a lower street value (less likely to be stolen), and said maybe we could switch me as well. I replied I was concerned about sedation and if meth caused it, I'd rather try to stick with oxy. I won't ask for a specific narcotic, thank you and you are so right.
And I do believe you are right, David about the doc not medicating me if I were to refuse his treatments. Just nothing he does makes any sense to me. Believe it or not, he is very well liked in this area. Yeah, if you're an ignorant idiot and not an educated paitent. Or not a woman. Sorry, that was a little much. But I'll bet it's true.
Rock, you have my vote for the wise a%& child, and one who makes us laugh! As a matter of fact you are all wonderfully funny! I can't believe how LUCKY I am to have found you guys!! I am so fortunate you are all in my life!
Allen, that makes me feel good that (hopefully) no ones eyes glaze over with boredom when we ask each other how we feel - I know I mean it from the bottom of my heart - I really care about you ALL and what happens to you and your families. I believe we all care that much about each other.
Fredo - I was started on 20mg of oxy every 12 hr, for about 2 1/2 weeks, then he ok's it for 20mg every 8 hr. That isn't doing a whole lot. I know that the GUY who told me about him was started on 40mh every 12hr, then 40mg every 8. Hmmmmm....guess my woman's pain isn't as bad as a guy's, huh? NO OFFENSE TO YOU GUYS - this is about a JERK DOCTOR, not about men.
So, I've been on 20mg x3 for a total of 9 weeks. I was wondering, should I go from 20mg x3 to 40mg x2? That would be the easiest to ask for with my current presciption - he wouldn't have to write another out for 10's, like if I asked for 30x 3daily. Or maybe I should ask for 30 x3 at my next appt. I don't want to overdo it, but I want a dose that will last for a while. I guess I shouldn't ask for anything specific there either - I'll just ask him for an increase to whatever he thinks appropriate for me. That's the way to go, you think?
I wonder if I'm going to be able to stabilize. I have a big fear that I will build a tolerance too quickly, and then what? You have all gone through this, do you really reach a dose where you stabilize for awhile? Holds the pain with no w/drawal symptoms?
I feel like I got another dud today. I took 25 mg of elavil (less didn't do a thing) and woke up this morning feeling pretty good - I actually believe I had less pain! I tool my regular dose at my usual time - 6am, and by 11am, I was freezing with sweats like before, and felt really crappy, and I was very surprised to see in the mirror my pupils were extremely dilated. What the heck could that possibly be from? I am afraid I'm not holding the dose for 8 hours, not even 6 anymore, but that doesn't make sense because I know the 2nd release is about 5 and 1/2 hours, right? Oh, well, need more time to see what happens, Sorry, now I really am babbling.
But, I am still staying on the dosing schedule, because I am terrified of messing up, and the best way not to do that is don't start. And I'm afraid of going through this and needing increases. Is this normal? I know David you said your increases went up pretty quick, thank you, that info helps me feel a little better.
I think I am ok with 50-60% percent when I think about it, but less would be difficult to smile at customers and function, I think. I love my job, and I don't have to lift heavy merchandise anymore, which I did all the time. But I was told don't underestimate my "value to the customers", and as a matter of fact I just got a 50cent raise, for a total of $2 worth of raises in one year, which is very good! I need to stay that valuable to my employers with the customers, and when I can't even smile at or talk to them because I'm in agony, it won't work.
I tried Paxil, and about went through the roof on it, I definitely did NOT SLEEP! I was really wired! But thank you for the suggestion. I've tried skelaxin too, but it made me very nauseous.
David, I just rereadyour post about your high tolerance and how we are different. I am so new, does that all apply to me yet? Was the Oxy the first med you were on and your tolerance went up that fast?
********************
Thank you all again, oh my gosh, I got so much from everyone of you, so much unbelievable moral support, which just makes it or breaks it, that's how important it is, I think, so that's how important every word you all said to me is. Every word. And so much practical technical info, just as important!
I hope you see how grateful I am! Honestly, words don't express how I feel inside.
I pray for pain free, peaceful days and nights for you all, and for all who are suffering.
Luv you guys, Leisa
(oh my GOSH - it took me 2 and 1/2 hours to write this!!!) Jeez!
I want you all to know I care very much about you all, and I intend to be there for you all as much as you have been for me, Yes, I DO believe I can make it with you guys. Man what a difference it makes in a life to have so much help and support. You have probably all experienced the joy in your heart, from others here as well!
Jane - don't feel silly - well, feel happy/silly because of your post being so hilarious- but not because you thought it was of no help - TRUST ME - I was rolling. It helped!!! I would think of it spontaneously throughout the day, and crack up out loud!
Marge, my doctor is not part of an HMO. It is real weird that he doesn't order me tests. The way he talks, it's like he blames the patient for costing the insurance companies money. He did say "someone is paying for it - the insurance company". Maybe he thinks if everybody cut down on tests and expensive scripts, something would happen - yeah, people would get much less good health care - there are reasons for tests, and meds, but it's not the patients fault the meds are so expensive. It's like he's trying to save insurance companies money, why is beyond me and no one I've talked to gets it.
I have had migraine and tension headaches for 24 years, along with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, which definitely disables me to where I couldn't work, but I was married then, so it wasn't a problem financially (emotionally a big problem). I've had other weird things, too, like systemic yeast infection - meaning it was in my blood, and people who get that are usually almost lifeless as far as energy. Then I was a passenger in a car accident in which I had not put my seatbelt on yet, and flew into the windshield sideways, my head hitting the windshield and my ribs hitting the dashboard. About 10 days of the most unbelievable pain, then about a months after that, constant horrible head and neck pain, and ever since, moving down my back and worsening. X-rays showed degeneration in my lower cervical spine and thoracic spine, but the worse pain is actually like c1-c2.
You how there are "lemon" cars? I think I am a "lemon" human!
As far as his ego and such - I just found out from a friend whose family has seen this doc, that he is a fundamentalist Christain (the Christian part is ok, not the fundamentalist). This means he believes women are "less than", (i.e. stupider, not as human, etc) so you all hit it right on the head with this guy.
I have another appointment with a pain doctor (I think he is) who is on the board of a disability organization that deals with all types of disabled people and how to help them survive in society - from mentally disabled to physically disabled. He's the one who started with my steroid injections, but as I said, I couldn't wait any longer for pain relief, so I went to this doctor who I heard would prescribe medication. But I went to him for complete treatment, and that is what I asked him for on my first visit - tests, try to find the source of the pain, treat it, be with me every step of the way, and he agreed. It's not happening.
You know, Dayna, Rock, Allen, Jane, David, Fredo,Marge - I can hear real honest understanding in each of your posts, and I can't believe how absolutely exact and true your feelings and observations are about us chronic painers. THANK GOD we have each other, because you are all so right when you say no on else understands us and our problems, because only those who are in our shoes can, if you think about it. People can try to put themselves in our place and allow themselves to really think about what it would be like to be in pain 24/7 (and that's the compassionate people - most wouldn't bother) but in reality, we are the only ones who feel the damage it does to us physically and emotionally.
Your posts were so meaningful to me, that I have them saved on like a file that I can just go to and open and read anytime I need support, encouragement and reassurance. I would love to repond to each of your posts and every sentence of what you said, because I do have something to say about them all, but I don't want to do it all at this minute - it would be the longest post in the history of this forum! And you all would take back what you said about me not shortening my posts, and not worrying about how long they were - uh, huh, yes you would!!!
PLEASE - I want each of you to know that I have read your posts more than 3 times so far, and they mean so much to me. I will be re-reading them again and again to be sure. You are such awesome human being, I think you are all part angel/ part human. You certainly act it.
David, Fredo and other meth users/ex-users - I think I'll pass on the meth. I seem to be having a hard time stayig stable and pain-free on my meds now, I won't risk the hell of meth you have decribed. Thank you for that very invaluable information. You both took so much time to explain all that to me, and you have probably saved me from the hell you both went through, and I am so sorry you went through that, and that sucks that it affects other opiates. Yes, you have certainly saved me from a terrible experience, it sounds like.
I know I babbled so much I probably wasn't very clear on some things I said. It was the doc's suggestion to put me on meth, due to the low street value, I believe. He had just told me about a patient whose "friend" stole the safe he had his oxy in, so he switched the patient to meth because it has a lower street value (less likely to be stolen), and said maybe we could switch me as well. I replied I was concerned about sedation and if meth caused it, I'd rather try to stick with oxy. I won't ask for a specific narcotic, thank you and you are so right.
And I do believe you are right, David about the doc not medicating me if I were to refuse his treatments. Just nothing he does makes any sense to me. Believe it or not, he is very well liked in this area. Yeah, if you're an ignorant idiot and not an educated paitent. Or not a woman. Sorry, that was a little much. But I'll bet it's true.
Rock, you have my vote for the wise a%& child, and one who makes us laugh! As a matter of fact you are all wonderfully funny! I can't believe how LUCKY I am to have found you guys!! I am so fortunate you are all in my life!
Allen, that makes me feel good that (hopefully) no ones eyes glaze over with boredom when we ask each other how we feel - I know I mean it from the bottom of my heart - I really care about you ALL and what happens to you and your families. I believe we all care that much about each other.
Fredo - I was started on 20mg of oxy every 12 hr, for about 2 1/2 weeks, then he ok's it for 20mg every 8 hr. That isn't doing a whole lot. I know that the GUY who told me about him was started on 40mh every 12hr, then 40mg every 8. Hmmmmm....guess my woman's pain isn't as bad as a guy's, huh? NO OFFENSE TO YOU GUYS - this is about a JERK DOCTOR, not about men.
So, I've been on 20mg x3 for a total of 9 weeks. I was wondering, should I go from 20mg x3 to 40mg x2? That would be the easiest to ask for with my current presciption - he wouldn't have to write another out for 10's, like if I asked for 30x 3daily. Or maybe I should ask for 30 x3 at my next appt. I don't want to overdo it, but I want a dose that will last for a while. I guess I shouldn't ask for anything specific there either - I'll just ask him for an increase to whatever he thinks appropriate for me. That's the way to go, you think?
I wonder if I'm going to be able to stabilize. I have a big fear that I will build a tolerance too quickly, and then what? You have all gone through this, do you really reach a dose where you stabilize for awhile? Holds the pain with no w/drawal symptoms?
I feel like I got another dud today. I took 25 mg of elavil (less didn't do a thing) and woke up this morning feeling pretty good - I actually believe I had less pain! I tool my regular dose at my usual time - 6am, and by 11am, I was freezing with sweats like before, and felt really crappy, and I was very surprised to see in the mirror my pupils were extremely dilated. What the heck could that possibly be from? I am afraid I'm not holding the dose for 8 hours, not even 6 anymore, but that doesn't make sense because I know the 2nd release is about 5 and 1/2 hours, right? Oh, well, need more time to see what happens, Sorry, now I really am babbling.
But, I am still staying on the dosing schedule, because I am terrified of messing up, and the best way not to do that is don't start. And I'm afraid of going through this and needing increases. Is this normal? I know David you said your increases went up pretty quick, thank you, that info helps me feel a little better.
I think I am ok with 50-60% percent when I think about it, but less would be difficult to smile at customers and function, I think. I love my job, and I don't have to lift heavy merchandise anymore, which I did all the time. But I was told don't underestimate my "value to the customers", and as a matter of fact I just got a 50cent raise, for a total of $2 worth of raises in one year, which is very good! I need to stay that valuable to my employers with the customers, and when I can't even smile at or talk to them because I'm in agony, it won't work.
I tried Paxil, and about went through the roof on it, I definitely did NOT SLEEP! I was really wired! But thank you for the suggestion. I've tried skelaxin too, but it made me very nauseous.
David, I just rereadyour post about your high tolerance and how we are different. I am so new, does that all apply to me yet? Was the Oxy the first med you were on and your tolerance went up that fast?
********************
Thank you all again, oh my gosh, I got so much from everyone of you, so much unbelievable moral support, which just makes it or breaks it, that's how important it is, I think, so that's how important every word you all said to me is. Every word. And so much practical technical info, just as important!
I hope you see how grateful I am! Honestly, words don't express how I feel inside.
I pray for pain free, peaceful days and nights for you all, and for all who are suffering.
Luv you guys, Leisa
(oh my GOSH - it took me 2 and 1/2 hours to write this!!!) Jeez!
david charles
10-23-2001, 09:40 AM
Hey Lei, It seemed like I went through a short honeymoon when I first started oxy. I went from begging my NS for 30 Vicodin a week to 20mgs of oxy BID. It was a relief to finally have some pain management. I wasn't able to get the bed out of my den for about 4 months until I got to 40-20-40, It always seemed my doc was one step behind what I needed, She did 20mg increases very slowly, By the time she increased it 20 I was really needing 40, So the little increase never really got me to the point where I kept ahead of my pain.
My sript insurance was minimal at the time, 2500 per year, I maxed it out in 5 months with the other meds like neourontin and Zanaflex and Remeron. So I really had to switch to meth. 40 bucks worth of meth went a long way and aloud me to take the other meds to boost the effects of oxy.
My doc was also out of network and my SSD lawyer recomended a doc that was in network. My new guy stayed ahead of the pain and I was able to get rid of the meds that really didn't do much but I was willing to take anything to feel better. I really think the right level of opiates can do away with all the other meds. If I wanted to spend my day in la la land I could have done that with Neorontin.
Looking back I should have continued to titrate early on rather than keep messing around with an extra 20mgs a month. By the time I got an increase I was in so much pain her pidly 20mgs wouldn't do much and I needed 20 more by next month. I think the doc confused my not be titrated properly in the first place with growing tolerant every month. She was very conservative and had mental limits as to how much was too much.
So my advice is keep titrating in the beginning to reach a reasonable goal. If My first goal was to get the bed out of my den perhaps I would have gotten to that goal much quicker rather than so slowly. So this time around when switching from meth to Kadian I didn't stop complaining until I was comfortable. That way an increase wasn't seen as tolerance but still part of titration. Does that make sense.
There is no reason a doc can't get you titrated in 2 months. Being conservative and being under medicated always had me in pain needing an increase. So be careful about your reporting when it's more of a honeymoon.
I have seen folks develop rapid tolerance to Oxy and I have seen folks like Jack be able to stay at the same level for a year. Granted 240 a day is not a small dose and he was titrated properly from the get go. If your needs are always a step ahead of the docs orders it's hard to find the right level.
I do think it can be done with oxy but you need an aggressive doc. I have met folks taking 900mgs of oxy a day. So It seems I'm one of the higher dose patients on this forum but at another forum I'm more middle of the road.
My present PM doc doesn't have a problem with dosages. The alternative is getting the pump. I pretty much have told them be as aggresive as I can tolerate so I don't need the pump but it's always an option. If the doc ever said I can't go any higher I would do the pump trial. I think my willingness to go to that length comunicates my need for the levls that I'm at.
I do get tired of the pills and the dependence on the meds and the docs. But I know I couldn't even do a quick trip to the grocery store without the meds. So the good still out weighs the negative. Feeling clear headed is a nice change too. So at 9 weeks I would say if you don't get to your goals you need to get more agressive or you will always be chasing the pain with too small of a dose.
The nice thing about Kadian is that I have never felt it wear of unlike Oxy or meth and duragesic. I have the steadiest level of meds in me that I have ever had. I normally get up at 6am to get my daughter on the bus but it doesn't seem to matter if I sleep till 9 on saturday. If I start my day a couple hours late I still don't wake up playing catch up.
I hope your doc will continue to titrate you and not call it tolerance at this point. Tolerance can scare some docs to the point of not wanting to be your doc.
I think your situation calls for another PM consult. Even if you have signed a contract, you are aloud to consult another doc. Ask the new doc what he would do differently, If his plan sounds better, except the scripts, call the old doc and let him know your changing docs to try a new therapy that the first can't offer. Acupuncture of Trigger point inj something he can't offer.
You don't want to burn bridges because you never know if the new doc is ready to retire in a year and you may end up back at the old docs office asking for his help again.
So a reason to switch other than the guy will give me more meds is important to convey to the old doc. Thank him for what he has done.LOL and move on. You may want to contact skip's folks and see if they can give you a couple names.
Take care and your dose is very low, I think any new doc would be willing to increase from such a small dose. Don't worry about tolerance. There is no set dose for migraines or for ddd or any other pain problem. It takes what it takes.
The goal is to improve your function and quality of life. Not feel guilty and to just take enough to cause dependence but not get the relief. Dependence is a pretty hefty price to pay and to not get relief and still be dependent doesn't make sense.
Take care and keep posting. You will get to a point where you feel that this is as good as it gets. Your no where near having to accept that so soon after starting a med. Cheers, David
My sript insurance was minimal at the time, 2500 per year, I maxed it out in 5 months with the other meds like neourontin and Zanaflex and Remeron. So I really had to switch to meth. 40 bucks worth of meth went a long way and aloud me to take the other meds to boost the effects of oxy.
My doc was also out of network and my SSD lawyer recomended a doc that was in network. My new guy stayed ahead of the pain and I was able to get rid of the meds that really didn't do much but I was willing to take anything to feel better. I really think the right level of opiates can do away with all the other meds. If I wanted to spend my day in la la land I could have done that with Neorontin.
Looking back I should have continued to titrate early on rather than keep messing around with an extra 20mgs a month. By the time I got an increase I was in so much pain her pidly 20mgs wouldn't do much and I needed 20 more by next month. I think the doc confused my not be titrated properly in the first place with growing tolerant every month. She was very conservative and had mental limits as to how much was too much.
So my advice is keep titrating in the beginning to reach a reasonable goal. If My first goal was to get the bed out of my den perhaps I would have gotten to that goal much quicker rather than so slowly. So this time around when switching from meth to Kadian I didn't stop complaining until I was comfortable. That way an increase wasn't seen as tolerance but still part of titration. Does that make sense.
There is no reason a doc can't get you titrated in 2 months. Being conservative and being under medicated always had me in pain needing an increase. So be careful about your reporting when it's more of a honeymoon.
I have seen folks develop rapid tolerance to Oxy and I have seen folks like Jack be able to stay at the same level for a year. Granted 240 a day is not a small dose and he was titrated properly from the get go. If your needs are always a step ahead of the docs orders it's hard to find the right level.
I do think it can be done with oxy but you need an aggressive doc. I have met folks taking 900mgs of oxy a day. So It seems I'm one of the higher dose patients on this forum but at another forum I'm more middle of the road.
My present PM doc doesn't have a problem with dosages. The alternative is getting the pump. I pretty much have told them be as aggresive as I can tolerate so I don't need the pump but it's always an option. If the doc ever said I can't go any higher I would do the pump trial. I think my willingness to go to that length comunicates my need for the levls that I'm at.
I do get tired of the pills and the dependence on the meds and the docs. But I know I couldn't even do a quick trip to the grocery store without the meds. So the good still out weighs the negative. Feeling clear headed is a nice change too. So at 9 weeks I would say if you don't get to your goals you need to get more agressive or you will always be chasing the pain with too small of a dose.
The nice thing about Kadian is that I have never felt it wear of unlike Oxy or meth and duragesic. I have the steadiest level of meds in me that I have ever had. I normally get up at 6am to get my daughter on the bus but it doesn't seem to matter if I sleep till 9 on saturday. If I start my day a couple hours late I still don't wake up playing catch up.
I hope your doc will continue to titrate you and not call it tolerance at this point. Tolerance can scare some docs to the point of not wanting to be your doc.
I think your situation calls for another PM consult. Even if you have signed a contract, you are aloud to consult another doc. Ask the new doc what he would do differently, If his plan sounds better, except the scripts, call the old doc and let him know your changing docs to try a new therapy that the first can't offer. Acupuncture of Trigger point inj something he can't offer.
You don't want to burn bridges because you never know if the new doc is ready to retire in a year and you may end up back at the old docs office asking for his help again.
So a reason to switch other than the guy will give me more meds is important to convey to the old doc. Thank him for what he has done.LOL and move on. You may want to contact skip's folks and see if they can give you a couple names.
Take care and your dose is very low, I think any new doc would be willing to increase from such a small dose. Don't worry about tolerance. There is no set dose for migraines or for ddd or any other pain problem. It takes what it takes.
The goal is to improve your function and quality of life. Not feel guilty and to just take enough to cause dependence but not get the relief. Dependence is a pretty hefty price to pay and to not get relief and still be dependent doesn't make sense.
Take care and keep posting. You will get to a point where you feel that this is as good as it gets. Your no where near having to accept that so soon after starting a med. Cheers, David
jane2
10-23-2001, 01:55 PM
40 twice a day will leave you hanging. Just tell him what kind of pain you are in. What are the good aspects of the Oxy and what isn't working about it. Let him think he is making the plan. 30 MGS X 3 might be a better way to go. But this idiot likes to call the shots.
The Rock
10-23-2001, 08:52 PM
Lei,
Babble all you wish, it's just refreshing to hear in your post that your feeling better about things. Sometimes that's what we all need is to post out all our feelings even if we later feel like "man i can't believe i went on like that".....because we all do it, but the pay-off is when you log back on and find a half dozen replys in the same day! The support and encouragement from this great group we belong to has been whats lifted me out of the dumps many times...it really means that much!!! This is like a family and your a member so pour your heart out anytime you feel you need to and as you've seen, the care,support,encouragement and wonderful insightful advice you need will be waiting for you shortly. The best part of reading post for me is that after a half a day or by the next day after several replys by others and yourself back and forth.....then your able to see that person feeling better and realizeing that they are not alone and that some of us have been thru the same thing or atleast can get a grasp of what your saying because we're all in the same boat really. Nothing....and i really mean NOTHING! will make this group turn it's back to you....i've found out. So it's very good to hear your feeling some better and always remember you have a "family" hear waiting to lift you up or help in any way!
Babble all you wish, it's just refreshing to hear in your post that your feeling better about things. Sometimes that's what we all need is to post out all our feelings even if we later feel like "man i can't believe i went on like that".....because we all do it, but the pay-off is when you log back on and find a half dozen replys in the same day! The support and encouragement from this great group we belong to has been whats lifted me out of the dumps many times...it really means that much!!! This is like a family and your a member so pour your heart out anytime you feel you need to and as you've seen, the care,support,encouragement and wonderful insightful advice you need will be waiting for you shortly. The best part of reading post for me is that after a half a day or by the next day after several replys by others and yourself back and forth.....then your able to see that person feeling better and realizeing that they are not alone and that some of us have been thru the same thing or atleast can get a grasp of what your saying because we're all in the same boat really. Nothing....and i really mean NOTHING! will make this group turn it's back to you....i've found out. So it's very good to hear your feeling some better and always remember you have a "family" hear waiting to lift you up or help in any way!
Lei
10-23-2001, 09:04 PM
David and Jane - thank you for your information. It has really made sense to me, and I feel less guilty.
David, you gave me some really great info, and you really know what I'm talking about. It really does feel like I'm one step behind.
Jane knows this guy has an apparent ego, and did you get the part about this doc being a fundamentalist Christian, and believing women are "less than" and I know personally a guy this doc started out at twice the dose he started me out on.
What exactly is "titration"? I have seen it used so much, and I guess from the way it is used, I guessed it to mean find the right dose. Maybe if I understand how it works and how it is usually done, like do I have to keep asking about an increase, or is it where maybe the doctor is aware that the starting doses may not be enough and ask me? (Gee, that would be nice).
Should I just be honest and say that I feel guilty asking for an increase, but I just feel like I am a step behind the pain, and if I'm going to take medication, I should be taking an amount that works?
Or, should I say something like, I appreciate very much his putting me on this type of serious, long-acting pain medication, but if I am going to be taking this medication, I'd like to try to get to a dose that works for the pain? And exclude the part about feeling guilty? (Even though that is very honest).
I want to do this right. I AM grateful, and even though he's a jerk, this situation with the too low a dose could happen with any doc, so I'd like to handle it in an appropriate way. I definitely don't want to burn any bridges, I'm pretty much not like that in any part of my life with any relationships, so that should be no problem when it comes time to switch docs.
Jane, I think you are right about him calling the shots. But there's gotta be a way I can communicate this to him, and get some results. I also think 40x2 would leave me hanging. Please help me figure out how to approach this. You guys are very good at communicating honesty and your needs in an appropriate manner.
Thanks again for setting my mind at ease, you are so right about the price of dependence and not getting the relief.
I do have an appointment with another pain doc, but I couldn't get in until Dec. 6th. I have also been given name of places by Skip's pain reps, but they also said they know absolutely nothing about any doc in Michigan, as they have had no feedback from any people in Michigan.
Thank you for your patience and kindness! I am waiting anxiously for your thoughts!!! Luv, Leisa
David, you gave me some really great info, and you really know what I'm talking about. It really does feel like I'm one step behind.
Jane knows this guy has an apparent ego, and did you get the part about this doc being a fundamentalist Christian, and believing women are "less than" and I know personally a guy this doc started out at twice the dose he started me out on.
What exactly is "titration"? I have seen it used so much, and I guess from the way it is used, I guessed it to mean find the right dose. Maybe if I understand how it works and how it is usually done, like do I have to keep asking about an increase, or is it where maybe the doctor is aware that the starting doses may not be enough and ask me? (Gee, that would be nice).
Should I just be honest and say that I feel guilty asking for an increase, but I just feel like I am a step behind the pain, and if I'm going to take medication, I should be taking an amount that works?
Or, should I say something like, I appreciate very much his putting me on this type of serious, long-acting pain medication, but if I am going to be taking this medication, I'd like to try to get to a dose that works for the pain? And exclude the part about feeling guilty? (Even though that is very honest).
I want to do this right. I AM grateful, and even though he's a jerk, this situation with the too low a dose could happen with any doc, so I'd like to handle it in an appropriate way. I definitely don't want to burn any bridges, I'm pretty much not like that in any part of my life with any relationships, so that should be no problem when it comes time to switch docs.
Jane, I think you are right about him calling the shots. But there's gotta be a way I can communicate this to him, and get some results. I also think 40x2 would leave me hanging. Please help me figure out how to approach this. You guys are very good at communicating honesty and your needs in an appropriate manner.
Thanks again for setting my mind at ease, you are so right about the price of dependence and not getting the relief.
I do have an appointment with another pain doc, but I couldn't get in until Dec. 6th. I have also been given name of places by Skip's pain reps, but they also said they know absolutely nothing about any doc in Michigan, as they have had no feedback from any people in Michigan.
Thank you for your patience and kindness! I am waiting anxiously for your thoughts!!! Luv, Leisa
Lei
10-23-2001, 09:23 PM
Hey, Rock! We must have been writing at the same time, only I took longer, because after I finished my post and returned to read it, there you were!!
I thank you so much for your kind and really encouraging words! I feel like I belong, for the first time in years! Really!! I am so amazed at you guys here, and yes, oh my gosh, when I returned home Sunday and saw all those replies to me, and all the care and concern and "technical" help, I was quite overwhelmed.
I agree about posting back and forth and seeing someone feel better. I really truly have come to care about you all, and I definitely "check up" on and keep up on how everyone is feeling, especially those who are going through a hard time. I believe in the prayer, so I pray for everyone (I don't mean to offend anyone), but I also believe God gave us people who go on to be doctors to help us! (How good they are is certainly up to the person, though!)
I am just overwhelmed at everyone's genuine concern for each other, it's so obvious when someone has problems or a bad time, everyone just jumps right in! It's very, very AWESOME!!!
Thank for listening to my "babble", I think I am not feeling so guilty and stupid for the long posts anymore, finally, due to everyone's wonderful reassurance!!!
Thank you, bless you, and have a peaceful, pain free evening! "United We Stand" definitely applies to more than one thing! We carry each other here!
Thank you all, from the deepest part of my heart and soul. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/heart.gif
Luv, Leisa
I thank you so much for your kind and really encouraging words! I feel like I belong, for the first time in years! Really!! I am so amazed at you guys here, and yes, oh my gosh, when I returned home Sunday and saw all those replies to me, and all the care and concern and "technical" help, I was quite overwhelmed.
I agree about posting back and forth and seeing someone feel better. I really truly have come to care about you all, and I definitely "check up" on and keep up on how everyone is feeling, especially those who are going through a hard time. I believe in the prayer, so I pray for everyone (I don't mean to offend anyone), but I also believe God gave us people who go on to be doctors to help us! (How good they are is certainly up to the person, though!)
I am just overwhelmed at everyone's genuine concern for each other, it's so obvious when someone has problems or a bad time, everyone just jumps right in! It's very, very AWESOME!!!
Thank for listening to my "babble", I think I am not feeling so guilty and stupid for the long posts anymore, finally, due to everyone's wonderful reassurance!!!
Thank you, bless you, and have a peaceful, pain free evening! "United We Stand" definitely applies to more than one thing! We carry each other here!
Thank you all, from the deepest part of my heart and soul. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/heart.gif
Luv, Leisa
FREDO
10-24-2001, 12:19 AM
Hey Leisa - How did the weekend go with your folks?
You sound "bubbly", which is great; reading your posts is a nice break for me, you are a very compassionate lady.
As to bumping the Oxy, I would ask for 40x40x40. As this doc is a shmoe, he'll balk and *****. I really think this dude is silly enough to fall for the jane2 act. You said you have another doc set-up for a preliminary meeting/exam, soooo, if you don't mind the suggestion, here goes:
Wear a skirt (a little short would be cool), flat soled shoes (the taller he feels, the better), and (blush, blush) a bra that accents your "charms" under a solid colored blouse that is not "to" tight, and buttons. Keep buttoned one past the clevage so as not to assault his religeous "sensabilities". Wear your hair brushed back, and down (hope its med/long).
Your assault will begin with you getting doe-eyed and teary saying how it hurts "right here" and could he please check it, meanwhile, shedding the blouse, rubbing your back where it hurts. As soon as blouse is open -ATTACK- and ask/whine if it would be possible to increase your dosage as your miserable and unable to complete tasks at work, and am in danger of possibly losing your job - weep/doe-eyed/eyes cast down. Obliquely bring up 40x40x40, and let him go from there; he'll probably settle upwards of 100mg-80mg but doubt he'll go the full 120mg. Hell, your acting might get it!! Use a bunch of jane2's lingo.
Now that I have totally embarassed myself (blush, guffaw,turning red), its a shame, but I bet it works if your willing to temporarilly demean yourself for a good cause - yourself. At least now you have a back-up plan in the works if he won't help you.
I hope I have'nt jumped way out of line, and that you have a good sense of humor.
Now I'm typing post-books as well; wish you the best lady; tear'um up!!.
------------------
FREDO
You sound "bubbly", which is great; reading your posts is a nice break for me, you are a very compassionate lady.
As to bumping the Oxy, I would ask for 40x40x40. As this doc is a shmoe, he'll balk and *****. I really think this dude is silly enough to fall for the jane2 act. You said you have another doc set-up for a preliminary meeting/exam, soooo, if you don't mind the suggestion, here goes:
Wear a skirt (a little short would be cool), flat soled shoes (the taller he feels, the better), and (blush, blush) a bra that accents your "charms" under a solid colored blouse that is not "to" tight, and buttons. Keep buttoned one past the clevage so as not to assault his religeous "sensabilities". Wear your hair brushed back, and down (hope its med/long).
Your assault will begin with you getting doe-eyed and teary saying how it hurts "right here" and could he please check it, meanwhile, shedding the blouse, rubbing your back where it hurts. As soon as blouse is open -ATTACK- and ask/whine if it would be possible to increase your dosage as your miserable and unable to complete tasks at work, and am in danger of possibly losing your job - weep/doe-eyed/eyes cast down. Obliquely bring up 40x40x40, and let him go from there; he'll probably settle upwards of 100mg-80mg but doubt he'll go the full 120mg. Hell, your acting might get it!! Use a bunch of jane2's lingo.
Now that I have totally embarassed myself (blush, guffaw,turning red), its a shame, but I bet it works if your willing to temporarilly demean yourself for a good cause - yourself. At least now you have a back-up plan in the works if he won't help you.
I hope I have'nt jumped way out of line, and that you have a good sense of humor.
Now I'm typing post-books as well; wish you the best lady; tear'um up!!.
------------------
FREDO
Lei
10-24-2001, 09:37 AM
Hey, Fredo! That was SO hilarious, I hope you know you made my day - what better way to start a day than with a great laugh! That was really great!
I'm not too sure it would work, though, with him being a fundamentalist Christian and all, or are you saying all guys are alike?! ;)
Actually, the last couple days HAVE been better in the morning - I haven't woke up with near the pain, and it's since I've been taking the elavil! I am up to 50mg last night, and so far, no bad side effects. And now I'm pretty sure that one of my pills was a dud, because yesterday I was fine as far as no freezing chills and dilated eyes. I did do one thing different, I started feeling anxious at about 10am, si I took a antihistamine, visteril, so I don't know of that mad a difference.
I have never had my spirits so uplifted by someone than I have by you guys. Like I said, what a wonderful way to start a day!
Well, I gotta make this short, (I hears sighs of relief everywhere!) I have to go to work, but thanks again, and have a great pain-free day everyone!!! I'll see ya tonight after work!
Luv, Leisa
I'm not too sure it would work, though, with him being a fundamentalist Christian and all, or are you saying all guys are alike?! ;)
Actually, the last couple days HAVE been better in the morning - I haven't woke up with near the pain, and it's since I've been taking the elavil! I am up to 50mg last night, and so far, no bad side effects. And now I'm pretty sure that one of my pills was a dud, because yesterday I was fine as far as no freezing chills and dilated eyes. I did do one thing different, I started feeling anxious at about 10am, si I took a antihistamine, visteril, so I don't know of that mad a difference.
I have never had my spirits so uplifted by someone than I have by you guys. Like I said, what a wonderful way to start a day!
Well, I gotta make this short, (I hears sighs of relief everywhere!) I have to go to work, but thanks again, and have a great pain-free day everyone!!! I'll see ya tonight after work!
Luv, Leisa
FREDO
10-24-2001, 09:57 AM
Cool - Yak-at-ya later. :wave:
------------------
FREDO
------------------
FREDO
dayna5
10-24-2001, 10:44 AM
hey guys,
You guys are too much, but I love it. And believe me Lei, what they are saying really works. And even if the doctor is really religious, he will definately appreciate it, and might even take it that you are the poor little girl who needs my help. My doctor told me that he didn't know why but I was sooo special to him, whenever I look up at him with my eyes, his heart melts. Now I didn't even "do that thing" but I did "fall apart" in front of him. Something I don't like to do, but I hate feeling crappy and more that I hate feeling crappy, I hate telling doctors I feel crappy. I hate being dependent on them for relief and I am also afraid of saying the wrong thing that would send out warning flags to them. So, I choked up in front of him and it worked. But I have a feeling you are alot like me, and I don't think you will have to fake it so just be yourself and let it all pour out. And unfortunetly, once you start, you won't be able to stop. I am only taking 30mgs of Oxy twice a day and I called because my pain is out of control to make another appt. My appt. is Thursday so I will let you know how I made out. I get no breakthru pills so what I do is instead of taking 30 and 30, I take 30 in am, 10 in afternoon, and 20 at night. I am not sure that is right, but it seems to help a little. I just hate wasting my pain relief at night while I am sleeping when the day is when I need to walk, and am having one hell of a time walking lately.
So anyway, now that I am off the topic, try anything to make the doctor want to help you, and believe me because my mom is big into the christian church thing, and unfortunatly I have had the "pleasure" of being hit on by many of those freaky dudes. Now I am not talking about the religion being freaky, but I am talking about me being 15 and most of them were like pastors and stuff. Now being older than 15, I think they were really slimey, and some of them hid behind their religion. A couple of her church people used to watch porns in the name of picking apart all the evil in it, lol. And believe me guys, I love most of her friends, and her now pastor is the coolest, nicest pastor I have ever met. And I am sure he wouldn't mind a little flirting once in a while, lol. Lei, they are still humans and we all like to feel needed, and god forbid, even sexy....yeehaw. :D
So enjoy yourself, and be honest with the doctor. And try everything, you'll be able to tell if he is into what you are saying or not, just by his face, lol. Have a wonderful day, all of you, cuz your all a riot!!! ;)
I love you guys,
Dayna :angel:
You guys are too much, but I love it. And believe me Lei, what they are saying really works. And even if the doctor is really religious, he will definately appreciate it, and might even take it that you are the poor little girl who needs my help. My doctor told me that he didn't know why but I was sooo special to him, whenever I look up at him with my eyes, his heart melts. Now I didn't even "do that thing" but I did "fall apart" in front of him. Something I don't like to do, but I hate feeling crappy and more that I hate feeling crappy, I hate telling doctors I feel crappy. I hate being dependent on them for relief and I am also afraid of saying the wrong thing that would send out warning flags to them. So, I choked up in front of him and it worked. But I have a feeling you are alot like me, and I don't think you will have to fake it so just be yourself and let it all pour out. And unfortunetly, once you start, you won't be able to stop. I am only taking 30mgs of Oxy twice a day and I called because my pain is out of control to make another appt. My appt. is Thursday so I will let you know how I made out. I get no breakthru pills so what I do is instead of taking 30 and 30, I take 30 in am, 10 in afternoon, and 20 at night. I am not sure that is right, but it seems to help a little. I just hate wasting my pain relief at night while I am sleeping when the day is when I need to walk, and am having one hell of a time walking lately.
So anyway, now that I am off the topic, try anything to make the doctor want to help you, and believe me because my mom is big into the christian church thing, and unfortunatly I have had the "pleasure" of being hit on by many of those freaky dudes. Now I am not talking about the religion being freaky, but I am talking about me being 15 and most of them were like pastors and stuff. Now being older than 15, I think they were really slimey, and some of them hid behind their religion. A couple of her church people used to watch porns in the name of picking apart all the evil in it, lol. And believe me guys, I love most of her friends, and her now pastor is the coolest, nicest pastor I have ever met. And I am sure he wouldn't mind a little flirting once in a while, lol. Lei, they are still humans and we all like to feel needed, and god forbid, even sexy....yeehaw. :D
So enjoy yourself, and be honest with the doctor. And try everything, you'll be able to tell if he is into what you are saying or not, just by his face, lol. Have a wonderful day, all of you, cuz your all a riot!!! ;)
I love you guys,
Dayna :angel:
jane2
10-24-2001, 02:58 PM
The real question is will he be willing to up your pain medication. Last time he was laughing at your pain.
I would just say that the OxyContin is great, but not covering your pain for starters and see how he responds. Say the Elavil is helping too. If he doesn't laugh at or do something else horrible ask if, he thinks you should raise your dose. Stress the problems you are having functioning. Ask his opinion.
It is fine to say you are in too much pain, but wrong to say I want X amount of Y. Won't go over well. They are the doctor.
A normal doctor might bump up you to 30 X 3 or 40 X 3 or add breakthrough drugs. All those seem like plausible responses to your pain. Since you are still adjusting to the Elavil, he might not want to bump your dosage up too fast. It can take time to get to the right dosage. If they go too fast, you could have a hard time tolerating the new dosage as well.
What isn't OK is to dismiss your pain. And you have the right to say something to that effect. Like I don't think you are being very respectful or listening to me. Or even "I am female, not retarded." But I would be careful of mentioning anything you learn here. He need not know that you are privy to some their secret Masonic information.
The guilt thing I would play by ear. Could work in with "I am grateful to have found someone who is finally taking my pain seriously." Flatter,flatter and reminds him that he is supposed to be taking your pain seriously. "I feel guilty asking for more, but.."
Just remember that you have a right to be taken seriously.
I would just say that the OxyContin is great, but not covering your pain for starters and see how he responds. Say the Elavil is helping too. If he doesn't laugh at or do something else horrible ask if, he thinks you should raise your dose. Stress the problems you are having functioning. Ask his opinion.
It is fine to say you are in too much pain, but wrong to say I want X amount of Y. Won't go over well. They are the doctor.
A normal doctor might bump up you to 30 X 3 or 40 X 3 or add breakthrough drugs. All those seem like plausible responses to your pain. Since you are still adjusting to the Elavil, he might not want to bump your dosage up too fast. It can take time to get to the right dosage. If they go too fast, you could have a hard time tolerating the new dosage as well.
What isn't OK is to dismiss your pain. And you have the right to say something to that effect. Like I don't think you are being very respectful or listening to me. Or even "I am female, not retarded." But I would be careful of mentioning anything you learn here. He need not know that you are privy to some their secret Masonic information.
The guilt thing I would play by ear. Could work in with "I am grateful to have found someone who is finally taking my pain seriously." Flatter,flatter and reminds him that he is supposed to be taking your pain seriously. "I feel guilty asking for more, but.."
Just remember that you have a right to be taken seriously.
The Rock
10-24-2001, 08:32 PM
Man......
You girls are bad! What this guy really needs is a sack over his head, a gag in his mouth........uh...sorry about that, sometimes i forget what the doctors tell me "Rock, think nice thoughts, think nice thoughts and please take your medicine!". May you should just KIIL this guy with....kindness. I think i better be going now i feel what my doctors call "an event comeing on".
And you know if the kindness does'nt work you can always take 3 or 4 rolls of quarters and put them down in a sock and tie the end and.....well you can figure out the rest, i need to go take my medication. Goodnight all.
You girls are bad! What this guy really needs is a sack over his head, a gag in his mouth........uh...sorry about that, sometimes i forget what the doctors tell me "Rock, think nice thoughts, think nice thoughts and please take your medicine!". May you should just KIIL this guy with....kindness. I think i better be going now i feel what my doctors call "an event comeing on".
And you know if the kindness does'nt work you can always take 3 or 4 rolls of quarters and put them down in a sock and tie the end and.....well you can figure out the rest, i need to go take my medication. Goodnight all.
dayna5
10-24-2001, 09:00 PM
hey,
There's the rock we all know and love....who loves ya baby???
dayna :angel:
There's the rock we all know and love....who loves ya baby???
dayna :angel:
The Rock
10-24-2001, 10:03 PM
Thank you Dayna, you know your my favorite! And see, i knew the doctors were wrong, people can love me just the way i am. I don't want to smile and be happy and i don't want to think nice thoughts and take my medicine....I want to break things and smash stuff! and catch things on fire..yea...fire, fire........fire rules! I don't want to be politicaly correct and say the right things, i want to stand up in the doctors face and say "no i don't have a problem...you have a problem because your a big wussy!" and "no i'm not totally enthralled with violence, just the violence i can enflict"........yea this is so cool! I don't want to be a watered down version of The Rock....I want to be The Rock! yea, being The Rock Rules! I love you guys too. :)
FREDO
10-25-2001, 01:13 AM
Hiya Rock'in A!!
Would'nt have you any other way!! Your the flip side of me if I let myself get pi$$ed. You would have loved it in my 2d Force Recon Squad, geeze, way back when. Of course my wife has been working on domisticating me for eleven years so now I can go out in public with her and everything!! At least for a little while...she is a way cool lady.
Dayna - Your breakin my heart here==Rock is your favorite?? :eek: Guess you don't like older guys, snif, snif, hell of a thing to tell a guy on his birthday.
Guess I'll just have to hang my hopes on Leisa to be my web buddy. Leisa? http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/heart.gifYou out there? - or did you go runnin off? LOL
Jane2 - Good to hear from you. With the available "charms" and savvy you ladies have - the docs don't stand a chance. LOL How has it been going with both you and hubby at home dealing with pain and recovering (he recently had surgery did'nt he?).
Your all the best this joint has to offer, but need to add david charles; anybody read from him lately today? Later folks, will check back.........
------------------
FREDO
Would'nt have you any other way!! Your the flip side of me if I let myself get pi$$ed. You would have loved it in my 2d Force Recon Squad, geeze, way back when. Of course my wife has been working on domisticating me for eleven years so now I can go out in public with her and everything!! At least for a little while...she is a way cool lady.
Dayna - Your breakin my heart here==Rock is your favorite?? :eek: Guess you don't like older guys, snif, snif, hell of a thing to tell a guy on his birthday.
Guess I'll just have to hang my hopes on Leisa to be my web buddy. Leisa? http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/heart.gifYou out there? - or did you go runnin off? LOL
Jane2 - Good to hear from you. With the available "charms" and savvy you ladies have - the docs don't stand a chance. LOL How has it been going with both you and hubby at home dealing with pain and recovering (he recently had surgery did'nt he?).
Your all the best this joint has to offer, but need to add david charles; anybody read from him lately today? Later folks, will check back.........
------------------
FREDO
dayna5
10-25-2001, 10:16 AM
Hey u guys,
MY FAVORITE PART OF MY DAY...COMING ON HERE AND SEEING WHAT ALL OF YOU ARE WRITING!!!!!
Pretty silly huh, but it's true. As I write this my kids are yelling for my attention, "I yam gonna be a vamfire 4 ween" "no i wanna be a vamfire 4 ween, not billy" my kids are screaming, "No Alicia, you are going to be a fairy" I try to reason "no, I wanna be a vamfire, don't wanna be no dirl (girl) fairy" Ahhhhhh!!!!! She just wants to be like her brothers, even though she is a girly girl in every sense of the word.
Anyhow, really this is really my fav. part of the day. Can't wait to see what everyone has to say. And Fredo, I love you guys equally (how many times have we said this to our kids???) But I will call you my son Corey. You are just like him. Very diplomatic and very caring, with just the right amount of additude to make him funny as hell. And btw, http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/birthday.gif . And also, to clear something up, I love older men. How old are you anyway. I think there is something wonderful about being with older men. Probably the fact that there is someone around u that is older, thank god. My husband is 4 years younger than me and I hate it, cuz I am the old hag, not him. Was great in the beginning, cuz I got to train him to the way I wanted, lol. And I finally found someone who could keep up with me (not the way you guys are thinking...well maybe some, lol) I am (well used to be) a hyper chick that would never ever sit still for two seconds. I would watch a movie, work at the computer, fold clothes, and read a book in between sceen changes. Now I have slowed down to a quiet crawl, but inside of me, I am rearing to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You guys are wonderful, and Fredo even though I love you to death, I think the Lei is a wonderful choice, sniff sniff. She has the qualities that any man would want, intellegence, caring, and wit that makes me fall of my seat too. (I am still sniffing though)
Sooooo, have a wonderful day, I am going to talk my three year old into the costume that I bought for her because she insisted on just two days ago. Aghhhhh!!!!!
Love Always,
Dayna :angel:
MY FAVORITE PART OF MY DAY...COMING ON HERE AND SEEING WHAT ALL OF YOU ARE WRITING!!!!!
Pretty silly huh, but it's true. As I write this my kids are yelling for my attention, "I yam gonna be a vamfire 4 ween" "no i wanna be a vamfire 4 ween, not billy" my kids are screaming, "No Alicia, you are going to be a fairy" I try to reason "no, I wanna be a vamfire, don't wanna be no dirl (girl) fairy" Ahhhhhh!!!!! She just wants to be like her brothers, even though she is a girly girl in every sense of the word.
Anyhow, really this is really my fav. part of the day. Can't wait to see what everyone has to say. And Fredo, I love you guys equally (how many times have we said this to our kids???) But I will call you my son Corey. You are just like him. Very diplomatic and very caring, with just the right amount of additude to make him funny as hell. And btw, http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/birthday.gif . And also, to clear something up, I love older men. How old are you anyway. I think there is something wonderful about being with older men. Probably the fact that there is someone around u that is older, thank god. My husband is 4 years younger than me and I hate it, cuz I am the old hag, not him. Was great in the beginning, cuz I got to train him to the way I wanted, lol. And I finally found someone who could keep up with me (not the way you guys are thinking...well maybe some, lol) I am (well used to be) a hyper chick that would never ever sit still for two seconds. I would watch a movie, work at the computer, fold clothes, and read a book in between sceen changes. Now I have slowed down to a quiet crawl, but inside of me, I am rearing to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You guys are wonderful, and Fredo even though I love you to death, I think the Lei is a wonderful choice, sniff sniff. She has the qualities that any man would want, intellegence, caring, and wit that makes me fall of my seat too. (I am still sniffing though)
Sooooo, have a wonderful day, I am going to talk my three year old into the costume that I bought for her because she insisted on just two days ago. Aghhhhh!!!!!
Love Always,
Dayna :angel:
jane2
10-25-2001, 11:13 AM
HAPPY BIRTHDAY FREDO :bouncing: :bouncing: Hope you have something fun and pain-free planned.
We are both fine, but the hubby's recovery is taking much longer than we ever imagined. Whatever a surgeon tells you - double the pain and double the recovery time. "Oh well, we only amputated 3 limbs! You can go back to work in a few days. Here's some Vioxx" He is going to work some days, but doesn't feel too hot when he gets home. So the two of us are hobbling around. Quite comical in a way.
Rock: Just open up a big can of whup *** on those doctors. Glad to see you are back to your old self.
There is always what we New Yorkers like to call "lead therapy", but that is a total cure. We girls will stick to our mind games!!
Danya: Can't the kids just go as a Vampire clan. The oldest could be the head vamp. or some could go as victims, with blood gushing from their necks. Sorry I am in a strange mood today.
Lei: Hope all goes well!!!
We are both fine, but the hubby's recovery is taking much longer than we ever imagined. Whatever a surgeon tells you - double the pain and double the recovery time. "Oh well, we only amputated 3 limbs! You can go back to work in a few days. Here's some Vioxx" He is going to work some days, but doesn't feel too hot when he gets home. So the two of us are hobbling around. Quite comical in a way.
Rock: Just open up a big can of whup *** on those doctors. Glad to see you are back to your old self.
There is always what we New Yorkers like to call "lead therapy", but that is a total cure. We girls will stick to our mind games!!
Danya: Can't the kids just go as a Vampire clan. The oldest could be the head vamp. or some could go as victims, with blood gushing from their necks. Sorry I am in a strange mood today.
Lei: Hope all goes well!!!
chivalry
01-25-2003, 01:25 AM
Hi Lei,
Well I can see that everyone really cares on this site.
In terms of taking methodose, octontin, octycodone, or morphine (all pills), they all will have withdrawl! It
sucks. but to have a better "Quality of LIFE!!!" To be
able to go outside walk for an hour, two hours, and more is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO worth the withdrawl, comments by people, anything that anyone says!!!!! If you ever or anyone EVER needs someone to talk too. Email me and I will get back to you. If you need a quality doctor, Dr. Elliot Krames, The Pacific Pain Treatment Center in San Francisco and the East Bay (Concord) is a supberb clinic. He has even had a segment done on his practice on Dateline NBC. Not that it matters, but he is a quality, knowledgable, and caring doctor (as are all of the doctors in the clinic). He is even involved on the Board of Directors
and has been the President (maybe is, definitely was) of the Board. He is cutting edge. Take care and feel better!!!!!!!!!!
------------------
Mark
Well I can see that everyone really cares on this site.
In terms of taking methodose, octontin, octycodone, or morphine (all pills), they all will have withdrawl! It
sucks. but to have a better "Quality of LIFE!!!" To be
able to go outside walk for an hour, two hours, and more is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO worth the withdrawl, comments by people, anything that anyone says!!!!! If you ever or anyone EVER needs someone to talk too. Email me and I will get back to you. If you need a quality doctor, Dr. Elliot Krames, The Pacific Pain Treatment Center in San Francisco and the East Bay (Concord) is a supberb clinic. He has even had a segment done on his practice on Dateline NBC. Not that it matters, but he is a quality, knowledgable, and caring doctor (as are all of the doctors in the clinic). He is even involved on the Board of Directors
and has been the President (maybe is, definitely was) of the Board. He is cutting edge. Take care and feel better!!!!!!!!!!
------------------
Mark
nevada86
02-22-2003, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by david charles:
Hey Lei, I took meth for about 10 months. the last 6 months I was 120mgs a day. It was prescribed 40mgX3 however it worked better for me at 30X4. I wasn't able to go 8 hours between doses.
It actually worked very well for pain. However even staying at the same dose the side effects continued to worsen. The worst was somnelence. I wasn't happy,wasn't sad, really didn't feel anything emotion wise. I just felt crappy all the time.
As far as availabilty. The name brand Dolophine is available in 20 and 40mg Discettes, They are scored and breakable and meant to be disolved in water or juice or swallowed whole. I always took the generic which is only available in 5 and 10mg strength. This meant I was to take 12 10's a day. With that flexability I was able to devide the doses and schedule it the way it worked best. I actually took it every 4 hours, 7,11,3,and 7. Each dose would build upon the prior dose and acumulate through the day. By the nighttime I was able to coast through the night.
One other tip, There are several manufactures of generic meth. I had taken the Roxane product for 6 months and one script was filled with the Methadose product. I experienced withdrawal for 3 weeks from that crap. At another forum another member went through the same thing. She had one of her 10mg methadose pills tested in a lab. It came back with bearly 8mgs in the pill. The generic laws allow for plus or minus 20% to be considered equivilent. However if your used to taking 120mgs a day and all of a sudden your taking 95-100mgs the difference is great enough to cause w/d symptoms. I guess if you started on Methadose and stayed with it you would never have a problem. I truly believe the Roxane product was far suppeior in strength. If the roxanne product was plus 10 and the methadose minus 20 that's even a greater difference. So if you have the option of switching to meth use the Roxane, and the 10mg pills will allow you to develop a dosing schedule that suite you best. I switched for financial reasons and script benefit caps.
Now I don't have a cap and can take what I want.
I would hate to go back to meth. The side effects that bothered me may not effect you at all. I also think the higher the dose the more likely you will have a problem with Side effects.
Most conversions have it 2:3 being stronger than oxy. However with your docs squirlyness I would be very leary of starting a med like meth without the confidence that he will be able to maintain your monthly doses. It's not something you want to try for 2-3 months and switch again unless you decide the side effects are unbearable. Find a doc you can trust and don't have to wonder what's going to happen next month.
Yes it's a very good pain med. It really comes down to tolerable side effects. The other concern is the conversion rates. Most conversions have it 3X stronger than morphine. However I have run across several articles and studdies that believe it is closer to 10X stronger than morph. I'm starting to believe that rule. It definately drove my tolerance through the roof. I'm finally comfortable again at 600mgs of morphine plus 30mg roxi for BT meds.
It was a horriable transition from meth to Kadian. I experienced severe withdrawal that only time would allow it to pass. It's a very difficult med to discontinue even when switching to a high dose of another powerful opiate. Meth is unique in it's action on the brain and no other opiate will really replace what it does. Now I know why addicts stay on Meth maint. for years. It's terriably hard to discontinue. Pain went through the roof and my brain was fried for weeks. Now I have this monster tolerance from taking meth too.
I did sweat alot on the meth and it totally killed any libido. Fortunately that returned in the last couple weeks. Good luck and don't allow this doc who knows more even though he's never experienced pain to have the kind of controll over you that he obviously enjoys. Find a new doc.
Giving you a month worth of meds to see if it makes a difference and not continueing it is a sure bet you will experience withdrawal over and over with this guys style and compassion. I would say it's definately time to start looking for a new doc. It sounds like the oxy may have worked at the right dose but switching meds every month because he didn't nail it the first time is very telling about your present doc.
Run, run like the wind from this guys clutches.I have a feeling as soon as you refuse your next injection he will no longer treat you with meds. Take care, David
Hey Lei, I took meth for about 10 months. the last 6 months I was 120mgs a day. It was prescribed 40mgX3 however it worked better for me at 30X4. I wasn't able to go 8 hours between doses.
It actually worked very well for pain. However even staying at the same dose the side effects continued to worsen. The worst was somnelence. I wasn't happy,wasn't sad, really didn't feel anything emotion wise. I just felt crappy all the time.
As far as availabilty. The name brand Dolophine is available in 20 and 40mg Discettes, They are scored and breakable and meant to be disolved in water or juice or swallowed whole. I always took the generic which is only available in 5 and 10mg strength. This meant I was to take 12 10's a day. With that flexability I was able to devide the doses and schedule it the way it worked best. I actually took it every 4 hours, 7,11,3,and 7. Each dose would build upon the prior dose and acumulate through the day. By the nighttime I was able to coast through the night.
One other tip, There are several manufactures of generic meth. I had taken the Roxane product for 6 months and one script was filled with the Methadose product. I experienced withdrawal for 3 weeks from that crap. At another forum another member went through the same thing. She had one of her 10mg methadose pills tested in a lab. It came back with bearly 8mgs in the pill. The generic laws allow for plus or minus 20% to be considered equivilent. However if your used to taking 120mgs a day and all of a sudden your taking 95-100mgs the difference is great enough to cause w/d symptoms. I guess if you started on Methadose and stayed with it you would never have a problem. I truly believe the Roxane product was far suppeior in strength. If the roxanne product was plus 10 and the methadose minus 20 that's even a greater difference. So if you have the option of switching to meth use the Roxane, and the 10mg pills will allow you to develop a dosing schedule that suite you best. I switched for financial reasons and script benefit caps.
Now I don't have a cap and can take what I want.
I would hate to go back to meth. The side effects that bothered me may not effect you at all. I also think the higher the dose the more likely you will have a problem with Side effects.
Most conversions have it 2:3 being stronger than oxy. However with your docs squirlyness I would be very leary of starting a med like meth without the confidence that he will be able to maintain your monthly doses. It's not something you want to try for 2-3 months and switch again unless you decide the side effects are unbearable. Find a doc you can trust and don't have to wonder what's going to happen next month.
Yes it's a very good pain med. It really comes down to tolerable side effects. The other concern is the conversion rates. Most conversions have it 3X stronger than morphine. However I have run across several articles and studdies that believe it is closer to 10X stronger than morph. I'm starting to believe that rule. It definately drove my tolerance through the roof. I'm finally comfortable again at 600mgs of morphine plus 30mg roxi for BT meds.
It was a horriable transition from meth to Kadian. I experienced severe withdrawal that only time would allow it to pass. It's a very difficult med to discontinue even when switching to a high dose of another powerful opiate. Meth is unique in it's action on the brain and no other opiate will really replace what it does. Now I know why addicts stay on Meth maint. for years. It's terriably hard to discontinue. Pain went through the roof and my brain was fried for weeks. Now I have this monster tolerance from taking meth too.
I did sweat alot on the meth and it totally killed any libido. Fortunately that returned in the last couple weeks. Good luck and don't allow this doc who knows more even though he's never experienced pain to have the kind of controll over you that he obviously enjoys. Find a new doc.
Giving you a month worth of meds to see if it makes a difference and not continueing it is a sure bet you will experience withdrawal over and over with this guys style and compassion. I would say it's definately time to start looking for a new doc. It sounds like the oxy may have worked at the right dose but switching meds every month because he didn't nail it the first time is very telling about your present doc.
Run, run like the wind from this guys clutches.I have a feeling as soon as you refuse your next injection he will no longer treat you with meds. Take care, David