rsg
05-13-2003, 01:08 PM
I have no energy today, so if someone is feeling energetic today, please go to addiction board and check out my post toward top, have had chronic pain, not abused all the drugs i have been given now time to quit, what do you think?
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MaryT
05-13-2003, 02:54 PM
Hi, rsg,
If you have been taking these meds long enough that you have become physically dependent on them you can expect to have some withdrawal symptoms if you quit taking them abruptly. Accommodation and dependence can occur after several weeks of consistent use of opioid medications.
Being physically dependent on your meds is not the same as being addicted. Your body has simply become accommodated to the effects of the meds and will react if you suddenly quit taking them.
Have you discussed gradually reducing your doses over several weeks (called "tapering") with your doctor? Your doctor should understand this and be able to plan a gradual reduction to minimize withdrawal based on the amount of medication you have been taking and the length of time you have been taking it.
Also, there are some other meds than can be used to ease the symptoms, e.g. clonidine (a blood pressure med), Benadryl (an antihistamine than can help with sleep) and others.
Please call your doctor and speak with him or her directly. Make an appointment if you have to. Don't trust a nurse or receptionist to translate these questions for you.
Althouth it can be very unpleasant, withdrawal from opioids, contrary to most people's belief, is not physically dangerous. (This is not true for other meds like Valium, barbituates and anticonvulsants!)
Please call your doctor and ask for help.
Best wishes.
If you have been taking these meds long enough that you have become physically dependent on them you can expect to have some withdrawal symptoms if you quit taking them abruptly. Accommodation and dependence can occur after several weeks of consistent use of opioid medications.
Being physically dependent on your meds is not the same as being addicted. Your body has simply become accommodated to the effects of the meds and will react if you suddenly quit taking them.
Have you discussed gradually reducing your doses over several weeks (called "tapering") with your doctor? Your doctor should understand this and be able to plan a gradual reduction to minimize withdrawal based on the amount of medication you have been taking and the length of time you have been taking it.
Also, there are some other meds than can be used to ease the symptoms, e.g. clonidine (a blood pressure med), Benadryl (an antihistamine than can help with sleep) and others.
Please call your doctor and speak with him or her directly. Make an appointment if you have to. Don't trust a nurse or receptionist to translate these questions for you.
Althouth it can be very unpleasant, withdrawal from opioids, contrary to most people's belief, is not physically dangerous. (This is not true for other meds like Valium, barbituates and anticonvulsants!)
Please call your doctor and ask for help.
Best wishes.
ajfinsand
05-13-2003, 03:14 PM
rsg,
My heart breaks for you. I went through MAJOR nasty withdrawls for six weeks to get off 'prescribed and used only as directed by the doctor' oxycontin. So, I can tell you that, YES, even if you do have valid pain and do not abuse pain meds it IS possible to become addicted.
The 'trick' the manufacturers of these drugs use to promote their drug (and tha manufatturers of oxy have been sued for doing this) is to say that if taken as directed that you will not become addicted. After a lot of people chellenged their claims and sued them, they changed it to say that you 'could become physically dependent upon them while using them as prescribed'....BUT they claim being physically dependent is different from being addicted. That addicted means you abused the drug.
Does the same thing happent to the brain when you build up tolerance to a drug whether you took it as prescribed or abused it? YES! Do you have the same withdrawl sysptoms when you try to stop taking a prescribed drug that you have become physically dependent upon as a drug that has been taken abusively? YES! The drug companied are playing a game of semantics here to try and save face. Addicted is addicted whether it is by choice or not!
I don't know if this will help you, but here's my experience with 'addiction to prescription pain meds'. I have never used any form of recreational drugs. Never abused alcohol. Had a lot of health problems and a lot of surgeries and thereby taken prescription pain meds numerous times in my life.
Took Vicodin for several weeks after my hysterectomy 7 years ago. No trouble stopping it when the pain stopped. Took it again on/off for several months when I had a major flare up in back pain (due to a congenital back disorder). No trouble in stopping it when the pain stopped. Took it again a few months later after sinus surgery. Again no trouble stopping it. (meaning no addiction symptoms when I stopped taking it) Had another really bad back pain flare up a year later and was taking 2 extra strength Vicodin 3x day (plus flexeril 3x day) for THREE months. The last month of that three month stint the drugs were barely taking the edge off the pain. I had to wait for six weeks to see a second spine specialist for a second opinion on surgery during this time. (just so you know I was addressing the root problem of the pain) While waiting for that appt the pain was just too unbearable and I desperate and tried acupuncture. (My primary care doc does acupuncture, and it was covered by my insurance) The acupuncture began to lessen the pain....the Vicodin began to help more again and by the time I went to the surgeon six weeks later, I was off the Vicodin and almost pain free. No withdrawl symptoms that time either.
I guess I thought I was one of the 'lucky few' who just would not become addicted to pain meds. Although I did realize that I had begun to build up a tolerance to the Vicodin that last time.
Fast forward to my spine surgery in March '01 (very extensive surgery...see my sig for details) I asked about what pain meds during my final consultation and the surgeon just said, "Don't worry, you will be kept comfortable." They gave me Oxycontin AND Oxycodone for breakthrough pain. After a couple of months they switched me to Vicodin for breakthrough pain, but still on the Oxy for pain control. After five months I began to experience an increase in pain. That was the point at which my primary care doc told me that I 'shouldn't still be expereincing post-op pain and that I needed to stop the pain meds because I was addicted to them.' "The pain is in your brain." is what he told me. That my brain was telling me I was in pain to try and get me to take more drugs to fuel my addiction. Being the 'good girl' that I am, and having not had any trouble quitting the Vicodin before, I went home and stopped taking the Oxy. And got violently ill! I thought I was going to DIE! Throwing up constantly after you have had three of your ribs hacked off is not fun. Called the doc.......the nurse said, "Oh no! You can't stop taking that suff cold turkey! Go take some right now, and come back in and see the doctor." (I guees my primary care doc assumed that the surgeon who initially prescribed the Oxy for me had told me that you shouldn't stop taking it abruptly) This was when my doc told me that many people have to go on Methodone treatments to get off Oxy, and he gave me a referral to a pain doc and said to try and taper off in the meantime. (it was a six week wait to get into see the pain doc). I managed (with a lot of pain and suffering from withdrawl symptoms) to wean myself off the oxy in six weeks and didn't need to go see the pain doc.
I don't know it it was 'just me' or if Oxy is more addictive than Vicodin. (but my guess is the latter) BUT, here is what has happened to me SINCE that time, and after I got off the Oxy my doctor warned me that this would probably happen. He said that once that 'addiction mechanism' has been triggered in your brain you are an addict for life. Now.......if I have a little flare up in pain and take a Vicodin it only lessens the pain for a few hours. If I take a second dose, it does nothing at all. But, knowing what I know and not wanting to EVER go through the hell of withdrawls ever again, I choose to simply not try taking MORE pain meds for the pain. It sucks! I will have pain the rest of my life, but I CANNOT treat it with drugs!
Alcohol does the same thing now too. One night when I was really hurting I thought maybe a drink would lessen the pain a bit.....and it did! Next night...hurting a little more.......one dring did nothing so I had a second and it only helped a little. OMG! I'm a drug addict AND an alcholic now too!!!
Sorry to have gone on for so long. It's a complicated subject and no two people are exactly alike. Just wanted you to know that yes, you can get addicted even if used only as directed. Gradually weaning yourself off might work for you. For your sake, I hope that Vicodin is easier to get off than the Oxy was for me. Just be aware that if you have, in fact, become addicted (whether purposely or not) that it could well become a lifelong issue for you. Listen to your body and be careful.
love and prayers,
aj in Oregon
------------------
~ 48 year old female; currently self-employed as an artist/designer/woodcrafter.
~ Previously worked in the restaurant biz for 27 years (not so good for someone with a bad back!)
~ Hereditary and congenital scoliosis, but it never caused any problems until I was 40+ years old.
~ 76 degree curvature had increased 2 degrees in two years 1999-2001; indicating surgery was necessary.
~ Surgery in March of 2001.
~ Fusion and insturmentation of C7 - T9.
~ Fourth rib removed; 5th and 6th rib cut back halfway; removed ribs were morselized and used for the grafting, plus additional bone harvested from hip.
~ After tthe hardware was attached, spine was straigntened 20+ degrees.
~ 2 weeks in the hospital.
~ Brace worn for five months. Bone growth stimulator device also worn several hours per day.
~ PT 5 mos. after surgery caused increased pain.
~ Follow-up surgery to remove hardware scheduled for Feb. 2002.
~ Round 2 of PT 2 mos. after hardware removal.
~ Medically released to return to full activity in July 2002.
~ Increased pain upon returning to regular work schedule.
~ Round 3 of PT in April/May 2003; continually increasing pain.
My heart breaks for you. I went through MAJOR nasty withdrawls for six weeks to get off 'prescribed and used only as directed by the doctor' oxycontin. So, I can tell you that, YES, even if you do have valid pain and do not abuse pain meds it IS possible to become addicted.
The 'trick' the manufacturers of these drugs use to promote their drug (and tha manufatturers of oxy have been sued for doing this) is to say that if taken as directed that you will not become addicted. After a lot of people chellenged their claims and sued them, they changed it to say that you 'could become physically dependent upon them while using them as prescribed'....BUT they claim being physically dependent is different from being addicted. That addicted means you abused the drug.
Does the same thing happent to the brain when you build up tolerance to a drug whether you took it as prescribed or abused it? YES! Do you have the same withdrawl sysptoms when you try to stop taking a prescribed drug that you have become physically dependent upon as a drug that has been taken abusively? YES! The drug companied are playing a game of semantics here to try and save face. Addicted is addicted whether it is by choice or not!
I don't know if this will help you, but here's my experience with 'addiction to prescription pain meds'. I have never used any form of recreational drugs. Never abused alcohol. Had a lot of health problems and a lot of surgeries and thereby taken prescription pain meds numerous times in my life.
Took Vicodin for several weeks after my hysterectomy 7 years ago. No trouble stopping it when the pain stopped. Took it again on/off for several months when I had a major flare up in back pain (due to a congenital back disorder). No trouble in stopping it when the pain stopped. Took it again a few months later after sinus surgery. Again no trouble stopping it. (meaning no addiction symptoms when I stopped taking it) Had another really bad back pain flare up a year later and was taking 2 extra strength Vicodin 3x day (plus flexeril 3x day) for THREE months. The last month of that three month stint the drugs were barely taking the edge off the pain. I had to wait for six weeks to see a second spine specialist for a second opinion on surgery during this time. (just so you know I was addressing the root problem of the pain) While waiting for that appt the pain was just too unbearable and I desperate and tried acupuncture. (My primary care doc does acupuncture, and it was covered by my insurance) The acupuncture began to lessen the pain....the Vicodin began to help more again and by the time I went to the surgeon six weeks later, I was off the Vicodin and almost pain free. No withdrawl symptoms that time either.
I guess I thought I was one of the 'lucky few' who just would not become addicted to pain meds. Although I did realize that I had begun to build up a tolerance to the Vicodin that last time.
Fast forward to my spine surgery in March '01 (very extensive surgery...see my sig for details) I asked about what pain meds during my final consultation and the surgeon just said, "Don't worry, you will be kept comfortable." They gave me Oxycontin AND Oxycodone for breakthrough pain. After a couple of months they switched me to Vicodin for breakthrough pain, but still on the Oxy for pain control. After five months I began to experience an increase in pain. That was the point at which my primary care doc told me that I 'shouldn't still be expereincing post-op pain and that I needed to stop the pain meds because I was addicted to them.' "The pain is in your brain." is what he told me. That my brain was telling me I was in pain to try and get me to take more drugs to fuel my addiction. Being the 'good girl' that I am, and having not had any trouble quitting the Vicodin before, I went home and stopped taking the Oxy. And got violently ill! I thought I was going to DIE! Throwing up constantly after you have had three of your ribs hacked off is not fun. Called the doc.......the nurse said, "Oh no! You can't stop taking that suff cold turkey! Go take some right now, and come back in and see the doctor." (I guees my primary care doc assumed that the surgeon who initially prescribed the Oxy for me had told me that you shouldn't stop taking it abruptly) This was when my doc told me that many people have to go on Methodone treatments to get off Oxy, and he gave me a referral to a pain doc and said to try and taper off in the meantime. (it was a six week wait to get into see the pain doc). I managed (with a lot of pain and suffering from withdrawl symptoms) to wean myself off the oxy in six weeks and didn't need to go see the pain doc.
I don't know it it was 'just me' or if Oxy is more addictive than Vicodin. (but my guess is the latter) BUT, here is what has happened to me SINCE that time, and after I got off the Oxy my doctor warned me that this would probably happen. He said that once that 'addiction mechanism' has been triggered in your brain you are an addict for life. Now.......if I have a little flare up in pain and take a Vicodin it only lessens the pain for a few hours. If I take a second dose, it does nothing at all. But, knowing what I know and not wanting to EVER go through the hell of withdrawls ever again, I choose to simply not try taking MORE pain meds for the pain. It sucks! I will have pain the rest of my life, but I CANNOT treat it with drugs!
Alcohol does the same thing now too. One night when I was really hurting I thought maybe a drink would lessen the pain a bit.....and it did! Next night...hurting a little more.......one dring did nothing so I had a second and it only helped a little. OMG! I'm a drug addict AND an alcholic now too!!!
Sorry to have gone on for so long. It's a complicated subject and no two people are exactly alike. Just wanted you to know that yes, you can get addicted even if used only as directed. Gradually weaning yourself off might work for you. For your sake, I hope that Vicodin is easier to get off than the Oxy was for me. Just be aware that if you have, in fact, become addicted (whether purposely or not) that it could well become a lifelong issue for you. Listen to your body and be careful.
love and prayers,
aj in Oregon
------------------
~ 48 year old female; currently self-employed as an artist/designer/woodcrafter.
~ Previously worked in the restaurant biz for 27 years (not so good for someone with a bad back!)
~ Hereditary and congenital scoliosis, but it never caused any problems until I was 40+ years old.
~ 76 degree curvature had increased 2 degrees in two years 1999-2001; indicating surgery was necessary.
~ Surgery in March of 2001.
~ Fusion and insturmentation of C7 - T9.
~ Fourth rib removed; 5th and 6th rib cut back halfway; removed ribs were morselized and used for the grafting, plus additional bone harvested from hip.
~ After tthe hardware was attached, spine was straigntened 20+ degrees.
~ 2 weeks in the hospital.
~ Brace worn for five months. Bone growth stimulator device also worn several hours per day.
~ PT 5 mos. after surgery caused increased pain.
~ Follow-up surgery to remove hardware scheduled for Feb. 2002.
~ Round 2 of PT 2 mos. after hardware removal.
~ Medically released to return to full activity in July 2002.
~ Increased pain upon returning to regular work schedule.
~ Round 3 of PT in April/May 2003; continually increasing pain.
Autumn Angel
05-17-2003, 01:56 PM
RSG...I replyed to your post in the addiction forum. You are not addicted you are tolerant and physically dependant and the fact you are not taking it into your own hands and upping your meds prooves that because an addict would take matters into thier own hands.
You will still have the withdrawls though thats the ugly part of being physically dependant. I posted what you will need to make your withdrawl as comfortable as possible over at the addiction board. It is too soon to tell if your chronic pain is gone if you just had surgery but I agree the pain you are having now is acute and therefore requires an instant release med increase call your doctor. And when he says you are healed and you feel you are then let him tell you how to detox from the meds cold turkey is no fun and since you are not mentally addicted a taper program might be better for you. Decrease your dose by one pill every week or whatever the doc suggests and the wd wont be that bad but if you decide to cold turkey the wd can be pretty uncomfortable. There are meds the doc can give you to help with the symptoms though. I wish you the best.
Autumn.
You will still have the withdrawls though thats the ugly part of being physically dependant. I posted what you will need to make your withdrawl as comfortable as possible over at the addiction board. It is too soon to tell if your chronic pain is gone if you just had surgery but I agree the pain you are having now is acute and therefore requires an instant release med increase call your doctor. And when he says you are healed and you feel you are then let him tell you how to detox from the meds cold turkey is no fun and since you are not mentally addicted a taper program might be better for you. Decrease your dose by one pill every week or whatever the doc suggests and the wd wont be that bad but if you decide to cold turkey the wd can be pretty uncomfortable. There are meds the doc can give you to help with the symptoms though. I wish you the best.
Autumn.
jlynn2974
05-23-2003, 01:57 PM
Before taking the DURAGESIC Patch and OXYCODONE...PLEASE take the time to look the effects of these drugs up on the internet. This information is readily available and is invaluable. It will save you from severe addiction withdrawal effects. These two drugs are physically dependent drugs with severe withdrawal effects. OXYCODONE is also known as "Hillbilly Heroin." Too many people are becoming prescription junkies, as these medications are being aggressively marketed and over prescribed in pain management.
[This message has been edited by jlynn2974 (edited 05-23-2003).]
[This message has been edited by jlynn2974 (edited 05-23-2003).]
rsg
05-23-2003, 07:24 PM
Well,no withdrawls from the duragesic ...must have stopped working for me a long time go, I have two vicoden es left...the problem is(whine..whine... )my incision site still hurts like crazy,(this did not happen after my hysterorectomy) it has been 5 weeks It burns constantly and then I get sharp SHARP pains, guess the muscles and nerves are putting themselves back together, just hope they do it right. My Surgeon gave me neurotin 300mg with 3 refills, this stuff is crap, might as well be taking a placebo! I guess I'll have to either call my GP or my surgeon(appt missed on Mon, whoops) to get something, this is rotten. they give me surgery that went sort of bad, stayed 9 days in hosp, had 32 stitches in my abdomen. The only thing left to do is look like a drug seeker???What do I do???ANY hints on scar pain???
Autumn Angel
05-24-2003, 12:06 PM
Hold up RSG if you are still in post op pain dont stop yet ok? My Hyst last May the incision took forever to stop hurting it was the 3rd time open in that spot though. I forgot where you said this one was though sorry. The neurontin is a drug for epilepsy but it is good at nerve pain they say. My PM perscribed me some but it wasnt covered so I never got to try it. I know I will probably get some flack here lol. But if you are still in pain and nothing else is helping by all means get the refill. I mean nuerontin is a good drug I hear and if its not helping then you sure need more than tylenol or advil for your pain. You are not abusing that is the MAIN thing here. And my doc told me after my surgery some need meds longer than others. I remember my very first surgery I didnt even fill the script!! That was in 89 I guess I was younger and could handle pain better who knows lol. Anyway do what feels best for you ok? And when you are ready all of us at the Addiction board will be there for you. Have a great day and God Bless you.
Autumn.
Autumn.