Karine
08-23-2003, 01:48 PM
New to this board and am very lucky to have found it. Have been looking for something like this sense 1999 when I was released from work due to work related injury, tendonitous in right arm started in 96 and left kicked in in 98. Now have neck and shoulder related problems that can not be fixed. Live with cronic pain from 1996 to Feb. 2003 when I found my wonderful doc. She has been treating me for my cronic pain and wanted me to try this pm doctor.
Nice new p.m. doc put me on the 75 patch works and only roxicodone 15mg 2 x a day for break through. Drove 75 miles yesterday to talk to him and see if he would change the rox but all he would say is I need to go through withdraws so the patch will work all on its own and I do not need extra pain meds. for breakthrough. He goes on vacation and my next app. with him is not til the 2nd next month. I am going through withdraws from the oxcodone I was on but still have alot of breakthrough when I try to do anything like type this or laundry ect.
Anyone do you have advice for me on what to do next? I would love to hear about it.
------------------
Have a good day.
Kari
Nice new p.m. doc put me on the 75 patch works and only roxicodone 15mg 2 x a day for break through. Drove 75 miles yesterday to talk to him and see if he would change the rox but all he would say is I need to go through withdraws so the patch will work all on its own and I do not need extra pain meds. for breakthrough. He goes on vacation and my next app. with him is not til the 2nd next month. I am going through withdraws from the oxcodone I was on but still have alot of breakthrough when I try to do anything like type this or laundry ect.
Anyone do you have advice for me on what to do next? I would love to hear about it.
------------------
Have a good day.
Kari
Sponsor
Autumn Angel
08-23-2003, 04:20 PM
Hi Kari...when does he go on vacation??? I will tell you he is wrong in his thinking. If he is taking you off BT meds he should have upped the strength of the patch a bit or put you on a taper from the Roxicodone.
What he is doing is not only going to cause you unnesassary withdrawls but its going to increase your pain level its just what withdrawls do.
If he isnt on vacation yet I would call him and ask for the roxicodone either a lesser strength than what you had or get him to give you a taper schedule along with another script for it.
He shouldnt just be expecting you to go cold turkey yet some doctors are like that and expect you to.
Now if he is already gone on vacation I would call my family doctor and tell him what happend and maybe he can fix you up on a taper or give them back to you.
Let us know what happens best of luck and God bless.
Autumn.
What he is doing is not only going to cause you unnesassary withdrawls but its going to increase your pain level its just what withdrawls do.
If he isnt on vacation yet I would call him and ask for the roxicodone either a lesser strength than what you had or get him to give you a taper schedule along with another script for it.
He shouldnt just be expecting you to go cold turkey yet some doctors are like that and expect you to.
Now if he is already gone on vacation I would call my family doctor and tell him what happend and maybe he can fix you up on a taper or give them back to you.
Let us know what happens best of luck and God bless.
Autumn.
Karine
08-24-2003, 12:04 PM
I am going to call my doc on monday to get into see her this week and let her know what is going on. I did not like the way he just told me I need to get off the pain meds that is what is causing more pain. I asked him about the breakthrough and he said my resistance is low because of the meds I was on. He said the 75 patch and rox 15 mg will take care of the pain and to trust him and the pain meds. I have been off oxy sense the 11th of this month. My family doc had me on 100mg oxy a day time released and hydrocodone 10 4x for break through. I am hoping she will change my break through rox to something different.
Thanks for letting me vent. What a great board.
Kari
Thanks for letting me vent. What a great board.
Kari
Disavowed
08-24-2003, 12:16 PM
Well, the only thing I know about withdrawal from meds is the experience that I had with my father in 88 from his meds...there were certain meds that he needed to go off of due to the way it was affecting him...he was not taking the meds right, and his family told him, it was time to do something....my father had a terminal illness, but we still did not want him to fall or hurt himself in anyway due to overuse of meds....
What I saw was terrible...he spent a week in the hospital....and he went through shaking, sweats, chills...and what appeared to be physical pain....I hope I never have to go through that again with anyone...or myself...my goal is to get myself off of ultram for a chronic muscle pain I have...but when I do, I am going to ask how to do this humanely....and it does not sound like your dr is being very humane when he tells you to do it cold turkey....I always thought that it could be dangerous to just let someone go through that without a tapering effect with another med....they had my father on a different kind of med to curb the withdrawal, but he still had symptoms...I can imagine what it would have been like without the help from the other med...
I believe that some dr's just don't have common sense or use that approach to dealing with patients....I would talk to any other medical professional that you can about this and get some help with this....no need in this century for anyone to suffer needlessly....It sounds like it is time for you to take charge of this situation, and assert your rights...I assume all patients have some...or at least they should..good luck
What I saw was terrible...he spent a week in the hospital....and he went through shaking, sweats, chills...and what appeared to be physical pain....I hope I never have to go through that again with anyone...or myself...my goal is to get myself off of ultram for a chronic muscle pain I have...but when I do, I am going to ask how to do this humanely....and it does not sound like your dr is being very humane when he tells you to do it cold turkey....I always thought that it could be dangerous to just let someone go through that without a tapering effect with another med....they had my father on a different kind of med to curb the withdrawal, but he still had symptoms...I can imagine what it would have been like without the help from the other med...
I believe that some dr's just don't have common sense or use that approach to dealing with patients....I would talk to any other medical professional that you can about this and get some help with this....no need in this century for anyone to suffer needlessly....It sounds like it is time for you to take charge of this situation, and assert your rights...I assume all patients have some...or at least they should..good luck
NeedANewHead
08-24-2003, 12:45 PM
The patch and the Roxi's are at least equal or stronger to the OxyC and the Hydro's you were taking.
That doesnt mean you wont have WD's due to them being different meds. Perhaps your other doc could give you a small script of both of your old meds to taper down while you are getting used to your new meds. However if you signed a pain contract with the PM doc, that would be going against that.
A lot of people get GREAT relief with the patch....I sure hope it works for you. And the roxi's are supposed to be the best BT med on the market. They are stronger than hydrocodone and without the tylenol. They are the same med as what was in your oxycontin.
Good luck.
I wouldnt assume you will have WD's...but you may. That is the point I was trying to make. Alot of people switch narcs all the time and dont go thru any WD's. I myself have done it three times and have never gone thru any. I will pray that you dont.
That doesnt mean you wont have WD's due to them being different meds. Perhaps your other doc could give you a small script of both of your old meds to taper down while you are getting used to your new meds. However if you signed a pain contract with the PM doc, that would be going against that.
A lot of people get GREAT relief with the patch....I sure hope it works for you. And the roxi's are supposed to be the best BT med on the market. They are stronger than hydrocodone and without the tylenol. They are the same med as what was in your oxycontin.
Good luck.
I wouldnt assume you will have WD's...but you may. That is the point I was trying to make. Alot of people switch narcs all the time and dont go thru any WD's. I myself have done it three times and have never gone thru any. I will pray that you dont.
Karine
08-24-2003, 01:36 PM
Funny thing is I don't have withdrawal like what I am reading on the board I get dizzy and major hot flasses but thats it my problem is the breakthrough pain rox is not working, the pm did not have me sign a contract my family doc did which I agree and never heard of before but did. She is a great doc and I will let her know what he said but I don't think he understands that the rox is not working and he will not change my med for break through. Pain in my ask but I did tell him I would try his way but it has been 2 weeks and the patch and rox 2 x a day but the break through is still coming to take 1 rox at a time is like taking nothing at all.
------------------
Cronic pain from tendonitous in right elbow 1996, left elbow 1998, shoulder pain within that time, neck pain the hole time. Docs would not give pain meds because of cronic pain and would not help. Could not take tha pain anymore 2003. Until I went to welfare and ran up $$ for med covarage.
Have a good day.
Kari
------------------
Cronic pain from tendonitous in right elbow 1996, left elbow 1998, shoulder pain within that time, neck pain the hole time. Docs would not give pain meds because of cronic pain and would not help. Could not take tha pain anymore 2003. Until I went to welfare and ran up $$ for med covarage.
Have a good day.
Kari
NeedANewHead
08-24-2003, 05:06 PM
Is the patch working? Perhaps you need an increase in that. Do you change it ever 72 hours or 48? Most people need to change it every 48 hours. That might be part of the problem.
Have you tried taking 2 of the roxi's at a time?
Also, maybe your doc would let you go back to taking the Hydro instead of the Roxi's if that helped more.
If he is on vacation, there should be another doc in his place that could make that decision.
Just a few thoughts.
I hope it all gets worked out.
Have you tried taking 2 of the roxi's at a time?
Also, maybe your doc would let you go back to taking the Hydro instead of the Roxi's if that helped more.
If he is on vacation, there should be another doc in his place that could make that decision.
Just a few thoughts.
I hope it all gets worked out.
Autumn Angel
08-24-2003, 05:18 PM
I dont know anyone that is just taking the patch alone.
I think most everyone here has some sort of BT med with it.
When I was on Oxycontin 20mg 2 x a day I had percocet 5mg for BT 1 tab 4 times a day as needed.
Those 12 hours drugs DO NOT last 12 hours. Maybe 6 or 8 at the most so they give you the BT meds to get you through to the 12 mark when you can take your next Oxycontin.
I dont know how the patch works but I assume you need BT meds with it too.
Isnt Roxicodone kinda like percocet but no tylenol?
I know Roxicet is percocet in the states cuz I had a script for 20 written when my headaches got too bad at the end of my trip. I am from Canada and the US doc was very nice NEVER questioned me at all about wanting a narc. I did give him my doc here in Canada's number and my basic pain history and he had no prob with it.
Oh and I had my pill bottle with me with the date on it and it was time for my refill. So he gave me enough to get home with and to see my own doc.
Wish all docs were that nice and understanding.
I would be talking to your doc like you said and making an appt. You need to find what works for YOU not the doc. God bless.
Autumn.
I think most everyone here has some sort of BT med with it.
When I was on Oxycontin 20mg 2 x a day I had percocet 5mg for BT 1 tab 4 times a day as needed.
Those 12 hours drugs DO NOT last 12 hours. Maybe 6 or 8 at the most so they give you the BT meds to get you through to the 12 mark when you can take your next Oxycontin.
I dont know how the patch works but I assume you need BT meds with it too.
Isnt Roxicodone kinda like percocet but no tylenol?
I know Roxicet is percocet in the states cuz I had a script for 20 written when my headaches got too bad at the end of my trip. I am from Canada and the US doc was very nice NEVER questioned me at all about wanting a narc. I did give him my doc here in Canada's number and my basic pain history and he had no prob with it.
Oh and I had my pill bottle with me with the date on it and it was time for my refill. So he gave me enough to get home with and to see my own doc.
Wish all docs were that nice and understanding.
I would be talking to your doc like you said and making an appt. You need to find what works for YOU not the doc. God bless.
Autumn.
Shoreline
08-24-2003, 09:18 PM
Hi Karen, I checked a couple conversion tables and the Duragesic alone is roughly the equivelent of what you were taking with the Oxy and Norco combined. Most long acting med manufacturers have their own web site and the standard rule for BT meds is that if you need BT meds more than twice a day the base dose should be adjusted. Otherwise the BT meds are just part of your daily routine and not truly being used for breakthrough pain.
Duragesic and Roxi hit all the same opiate receptors and then some that your previous med combo hit. Fentanyl does bind to the Kappa receptor which is an aditional receptor that Oxy and hydro don't hit so it wouldn't make sense to experience terrible withdrawal unless you are extremely sensetive to med changes, But you are getting basically the same amount of meds from the Duragesic alone if not more when you add another 30 mgs of oxy to your daily intake.
The use of BT meds is a bit controversial too, many docs don't believe we have the will power to use them only for break through pain when there is no other option. It sounds like you were using your BT meds as a part of your daily routine which can cause rebound problems along with rapid tolerance.
Titration can be miserable and waiting for an apt for that next adjustment can certainly seem like an eternity but what your doc is doing is what the manufacturer recommends and the American academy of pain physicians recommendation as far as use of BT meds. If his practice offers a full service approach or multi faceted approach you should have some other tools to rely on to deal with BT pain. Relaxation techniques, hypnosis, biofeedback, yoga, stretching, PT, trigger point injections, etc.
Going back to the family doc to get additional BT meds could end your relationship with both docs, although you have not signed a contract with your PM doc there are still laws against doc shopping for narcotics to treat the same problem. Having two docs prescribing meds for the same problem can leave you with no doc prescribing any meds. All it takes is one pharmacist to call one of these docs and explain your recieving potent opiates from several docs for the same condition.
Use Ice, Heat, any method at your disposal. But when the doc increases the strength of your BT med by 50% and increases your base dose you asking for more does raise red flags. It may be that oxycocodone is just not an effective med for you but you can't expect a doc to work out every problem and have you on a dose of meds with BT meds that resolve all you pain in a short period of time. Often it takes months and several trials of different meds.
The doc has increased your meds and your telling him the BT med that is stronger than your old is like taking nothing is difinately a red flag docs look out for. "when patients continue to complain of lack of relief despite an increase in meds" it does sound funny to the doc.
A simple increase in Duragesic may solve all your problems but telling him 30 mgs of Roxi, equivalent to 6 percocets gives you no relief the doc will certainly be scratching his head wondering why an increase isn't helping. It leads them to believe you have a med preference and are unwilling to try something new.
Keep a log of your BT pain and keep a log of how the patch is working and how long. If the patch is wearing off at 48 hours and that's when you start loading on roxi ,this suggests the Duragesic dose is too low but supplying you with additional BT meds isn't the answer. Either shortening the duration of the patch or increasing the dosage makes more sense than adding in more BT meds than you should need.
Just a little insight into how docs think and what is considered the standard of care with CP patients may help you understand why the new doc is doing this in this manner.
Loading you up on BT meds is not the answer for 24/7 pain and goes against most manufacturer recomendations. Hang in there, keep a diary and hold out till your next apt. A 15 mg Roxi is at least 50% stronger as a 10mg norco. The 75 ugh patch is stronger than 100mgs of OxyC so your complaining of increased pain when he increased your dose.
Not a good thing for a doc to have to try to figure out. Give it time and as he learns that you can be responsable with your meds and you build a relationship with this doc he will likely be more willing to be more agressive.
Good luck, Shore
Duragesic and Roxi hit all the same opiate receptors and then some that your previous med combo hit. Fentanyl does bind to the Kappa receptor which is an aditional receptor that Oxy and hydro don't hit so it wouldn't make sense to experience terrible withdrawal unless you are extremely sensetive to med changes, But you are getting basically the same amount of meds from the Duragesic alone if not more when you add another 30 mgs of oxy to your daily intake.
The use of BT meds is a bit controversial too, many docs don't believe we have the will power to use them only for break through pain when there is no other option. It sounds like you were using your BT meds as a part of your daily routine which can cause rebound problems along with rapid tolerance.
Titration can be miserable and waiting for an apt for that next adjustment can certainly seem like an eternity but what your doc is doing is what the manufacturer recommends and the American academy of pain physicians recommendation as far as use of BT meds. If his practice offers a full service approach or multi faceted approach you should have some other tools to rely on to deal with BT pain. Relaxation techniques, hypnosis, biofeedback, yoga, stretching, PT, trigger point injections, etc.
Going back to the family doc to get additional BT meds could end your relationship with both docs, although you have not signed a contract with your PM doc there are still laws against doc shopping for narcotics to treat the same problem. Having two docs prescribing meds for the same problem can leave you with no doc prescribing any meds. All it takes is one pharmacist to call one of these docs and explain your recieving potent opiates from several docs for the same condition.
Use Ice, Heat, any method at your disposal. But when the doc increases the strength of your BT med by 50% and increases your base dose you asking for more does raise red flags. It may be that oxycocodone is just not an effective med for you but you can't expect a doc to work out every problem and have you on a dose of meds with BT meds that resolve all you pain in a short period of time. Often it takes months and several trials of different meds.
The doc has increased your meds and your telling him the BT med that is stronger than your old is like taking nothing is difinately a red flag docs look out for. "when patients continue to complain of lack of relief despite an increase in meds" it does sound funny to the doc.
A simple increase in Duragesic may solve all your problems but telling him 30 mgs of Roxi, equivalent to 6 percocets gives you no relief the doc will certainly be scratching his head wondering why an increase isn't helping. It leads them to believe you have a med preference and are unwilling to try something new.
Keep a log of your BT pain and keep a log of how the patch is working and how long. If the patch is wearing off at 48 hours and that's when you start loading on roxi ,this suggests the Duragesic dose is too low but supplying you with additional BT meds isn't the answer. Either shortening the duration of the patch or increasing the dosage makes more sense than adding in more BT meds than you should need.
Just a little insight into how docs think and what is considered the standard of care with CP patients may help you understand why the new doc is doing this in this manner.
Loading you up on BT meds is not the answer for 24/7 pain and goes against most manufacturer recomendations. Hang in there, keep a diary and hold out till your next apt. A 15 mg Roxi is at least 50% stronger as a 10mg norco. The 75 ugh patch is stronger than 100mgs of OxyC so your complaining of increased pain when he increased your dose.
Not a good thing for a doc to have to try to figure out. Give it time and as he learns that you can be responsable with your meds and you build a relationship with this doc he will likely be more willing to be more agressive.
Good luck, Shore
Autumn Angel
08-24-2003, 09:51 PM
Hi Shore call me nieve but what is Biofeedback? I have heard it used over and over and I am clueless lol.
I know what you mean about participating so to speak in your own pain management.
I went to my Pm doc last month with my pain journal and everything I do when I get pain flare ups and he was so happy with me I was almost proud of myself too.
I do alot of other things besides just take the meds I document what I was doing, when my pain or BT pain as we call it flared up then try and do things to avoid it happening again. For example my MAIN ( I have 3) pain condition is my TMJD partially due to being born with an exsessivly long left condyle and the right one is arthritic as well. In 1989 I was in a small car accident that dislodged the disc in my left jaw joint and the disc now resides in my cheek somewhere and for 12 years the bones have been rubbing together causing terrible daily headaches, shooting pain in my forehead and over my left eye, total facial numbness on the whole left side about 3 times a month. I am also a night grinder to the point where I have broken off 2 molars and have had to have them pulled.
So to manage the BT pain flare ups from that I have put myself on a soft diet, stopped chewing gum altogether, limited my smoking because even taking a drag of a smoke uses those jaw muscles and I use ice and heat as well. My PM says the shooting pains in my head are nerve pain and since it has been 12 years nothing will help me except meds. There is a surgery called an Arthroscopy to put the disc back in place but my Pm doc is against it because even IF it is successful the bad far outweighs the good he said. My pain level MIGHT decrease by maybe 20% but the scar tissue and possible facial paralisis isnt worth it for 20% and odds are there would be more surgeries for scar tissue after.
My 2nd issue is my pelvic adhesions from multiple pelvic surgeries including an abdominal hysterectomy in May 2002. My left and right ovary are full of cysts and my left ovary is fused to my intestine by scar tissue and adhesions..a laproscopy MIGHT help but again the risks as explained to me by my OBGYN and my PM agrees are far too high right now an intestinal perferation could be life threatening so I have decided to wait untill the pain cripples me and it is daily and constant instead of twice or so a week for half a day or so...Again I work with my meds to make it not so bad...like heating pad, excersize etc.
Thirdly and finally lol...My Siatic nerve...that darn thing hurts like H...l. My lower left back all the way down my calf into my foot and as a result has numbed my big toe. Same thing when that flares up..heat or ice and massage works at times. Sorry this was so long just wanted you to know I understand what you said about doing other things for your pain along with taking the medication.
I still think the original poster might need a med ajustment probably of her patch...some docs want patients off all Bt meds but in her case I think she should have been told ahead of time and tapered or something. Again sorry for the long post I must be in a typing mood tonight lol. Have a pain free night and God bless.
Autumn Angel :)
[This message has been edited by Autumn Angel (edited 08-24-2003).]
I know what you mean about participating so to speak in your own pain management.
I went to my Pm doc last month with my pain journal and everything I do when I get pain flare ups and he was so happy with me I was almost proud of myself too.
I do alot of other things besides just take the meds I document what I was doing, when my pain or BT pain as we call it flared up then try and do things to avoid it happening again. For example my MAIN ( I have 3) pain condition is my TMJD partially due to being born with an exsessivly long left condyle and the right one is arthritic as well. In 1989 I was in a small car accident that dislodged the disc in my left jaw joint and the disc now resides in my cheek somewhere and for 12 years the bones have been rubbing together causing terrible daily headaches, shooting pain in my forehead and over my left eye, total facial numbness on the whole left side about 3 times a month. I am also a night grinder to the point where I have broken off 2 molars and have had to have them pulled.
So to manage the BT pain flare ups from that I have put myself on a soft diet, stopped chewing gum altogether, limited my smoking because even taking a drag of a smoke uses those jaw muscles and I use ice and heat as well. My PM says the shooting pains in my head are nerve pain and since it has been 12 years nothing will help me except meds. There is a surgery called an Arthroscopy to put the disc back in place but my Pm doc is against it because even IF it is successful the bad far outweighs the good he said. My pain level MIGHT decrease by maybe 20% but the scar tissue and possible facial paralisis isnt worth it for 20% and odds are there would be more surgeries for scar tissue after.
My 2nd issue is my pelvic adhesions from multiple pelvic surgeries including an abdominal hysterectomy in May 2002. My left and right ovary are full of cysts and my left ovary is fused to my intestine by scar tissue and adhesions..a laproscopy MIGHT help but again the risks as explained to me by my OBGYN and my PM agrees are far too high right now an intestinal perferation could be life threatening so I have decided to wait untill the pain cripples me and it is daily and constant instead of twice or so a week for half a day or so...Again I work with my meds to make it not so bad...like heating pad, excersize etc.
Thirdly and finally lol...My Siatic nerve...that darn thing hurts like H...l. My lower left back all the way down my calf into my foot and as a result has numbed my big toe. Same thing when that flares up..heat or ice and massage works at times. Sorry this was so long just wanted you to know I understand what you said about doing other things for your pain along with taking the medication.
I still think the original poster might need a med ajustment probably of her patch...some docs want patients off all Bt meds but in her case I think she should have been told ahead of time and tapered or something. Again sorry for the long post I must be in a typing mood tonight lol. Have a pain free night and God bless.
Autumn Angel :)
[This message has been edited by Autumn Angel (edited 08-24-2003).]
lgriffincsa
08-25-2003, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by Autumn Angel:
I dont know anyone that is just taking the patch alone.
I think most everyone here has some sort of BT med with it.
When I was on Oxycontin 20mg 2 x a day I had percocet 5mg for BT 1 tab 4 times a day as needed.
Those 12 hours drugs DO NOT last 12 hours. Maybe 6 or 8 at the most so they give you the BT meds to get you through to the 12 mark when you can take your next Oxycontin.
I dont know how the patch works but I assume you need BT meds with it too.
Isnt Roxicodone kinda like percocet but no tylenol?
I know Roxicet is percocet in the states cuz I had a script for 20 written when my headaches got too bad at the end of my trip. I am from Canada and the US doc was very nice NEVER questioned me at all about wanting a narc. I did give him my doc here in Canada's number and my basic pain history and he had no prob with it.
Oh and I had my pill bottle with me with the date on it and it was time for my refill. So he gave me enough to get home with and to see my own doc.
Wish all docs were that nice and understanding.
I would be talking to your doc like you said and making an appt. You need to find what works for YOU not the doc. God bless.
Autumn.
Just a FYI,
I was on the patch for 5 days. I had an allergic reaction to it and was switched to strictly Norco, what a joke. Anyway, I was on the 50mcg patch. I got wonderful pain releif from it, too much if you ask me. This med controled my pain so well, that I was afraid that I was going to do something so strenious, that I would really hurt myself, and not know it :eek: . The point I was making from this post is that I was not prescribed BT meds while on the patch, and I didnt need them. :D: I will say however, that if I had to continue using the patch, I would have had to change it every 48hrs instead of 72. I did notice an increase in my pain level by the end of the 2nd day. Of course I had taken a couple of long hot baths and showeres while wearing the patch. My dr. didnt warn me about heat and the patch, I only learned that here at Health Boards. I just wanted to put my 2 cents in, and I hope that the thread starter gets help with controling their pain. Good luck.
:wave: :bouncing:
------------------
1998-Major rear-end colision
1998-mid2000-Chiropractic care
2000-mid2002-Pain level increased drasticly. No insurance, took a combo of every OTC painreleiver imaginable.
2002-MRI/ L3/L4 and L4/L5 annular bulging; DDD L4-5 and L5-S1
2003 February- Orthopeadic Spinal Surgeon said not a candidate for surgery,Percocet 5/325 every 6 hrs.
2003 June-1 month at PM clinic, Percocet 7.5/325 every 4 hrs.
08JULY2003-Had Discogram, comfirmed pain comming from L4-L5 disc.Followup confirms tear at L4/L5, pushing on a nerve.
JULY2003-Duragesic patch, had allergic reaction, switched to Norco. Norco provides no releif. Dr. wants me to have IDET. NOPE!!
14AUG2003- New PM Dr. switched me to Oxycontin, with percocet for breakthru untill my dose is stable. Scheduled for EMG. Thank God for this Dr.
I can only work for 3-4 hrs per day/ 2/3 days per week with current meds. I think this will inprove when I am on a stable dose of my meds; real soon I hope.
Surgery is NOT an option at this time.
I dont know anyone that is just taking the patch alone.
I think most everyone here has some sort of BT med with it.
When I was on Oxycontin 20mg 2 x a day I had percocet 5mg for BT 1 tab 4 times a day as needed.
Those 12 hours drugs DO NOT last 12 hours. Maybe 6 or 8 at the most so they give you the BT meds to get you through to the 12 mark when you can take your next Oxycontin.
I dont know how the patch works but I assume you need BT meds with it too.
Isnt Roxicodone kinda like percocet but no tylenol?
I know Roxicet is percocet in the states cuz I had a script for 20 written when my headaches got too bad at the end of my trip. I am from Canada and the US doc was very nice NEVER questioned me at all about wanting a narc. I did give him my doc here in Canada's number and my basic pain history and he had no prob with it.
Oh and I had my pill bottle with me with the date on it and it was time for my refill. So he gave me enough to get home with and to see my own doc.
Wish all docs were that nice and understanding.
I would be talking to your doc like you said and making an appt. You need to find what works for YOU not the doc. God bless.
Autumn.
Just a FYI,
I was on the patch for 5 days. I had an allergic reaction to it and was switched to strictly Norco, what a joke. Anyway, I was on the 50mcg patch. I got wonderful pain releif from it, too much if you ask me. This med controled my pain so well, that I was afraid that I was going to do something so strenious, that I would really hurt myself, and not know it :eek: . The point I was making from this post is that I was not prescribed BT meds while on the patch, and I didnt need them. :D: I will say however, that if I had to continue using the patch, I would have had to change it every 48hrs instead of 72. I did notice an increase in my pain level by the end of the 2nd day. Of course I had taken a couple of long hot baths and showeres while wearing the patch. My dr. didnt warn me about heat and the patch, I only learned that here at Health Boards. I just wanted to put my 2 cents in, and I hope that the thread starter gets help with controling their pain. Good luck.
:wave: :bouncing:
------------------
1998-Major rear-end colision
1998-mid2000-Chiropractic care
2000-mid2002-Pain level increased drasticly. No insurance, took a combo of every OTC painreleiver imaginable.
2002-MRI/ L3/L4 and L4/L5 annular bulging; DDD L4-5 and L5-S1
2003 February- Orthopeadic Spinal Surgeon said not a candidate for surgery,Percocet 5/325 every 6 hrs.
2003 June-1 month at PM clinic, Percocet 7.5/325 every 4 hrs.
08JULY2003-Had Discogram, comfirmed pain comming from L4-L5 disc.Followup confirms tear at L4/L5, pushing on a nerve.
JULY2003-Duragesic patch, had allergic reaction, switched to Norco. Norco provides no releif. Dr. wants me to have IDET. NOPE!!
14AUG2003- New PM Dr. switched me to Oxycontin, with percocet for breakthru untill my dose is stable. Scheduled for EMG. Thank God for this Dr.
I can only work for 3-4 hrs per day/ 2/3 days per week with current meds. I think this will inprove when I am on a stable dose of my meds; real soon I hope.
Surgery is NOT an option at this time.
Shoreline
08-25-2003, 06:19 PM
Hi Autumn, You may be right about needing an increase, I just don't think the doc intentionally meant for Karin to suffer, The doses look in line and are a slight increase but because everyone responds differently to each med she may need more.Charts are just guides and shouldn't replace patient reporting
Biofeedback is just a relaxation technique in which they actually measure physical response when using a relaxation technique. A Biofeedback machine can measure Galvanic skin response, brain wave activity or show the patient in simpler terms through body surface temperature by placing a small measuring device on a finger.
When we are tense we have restricted blood flow, even at the capillary level. Your external skin temp may naturally be 88 degrees or drop that low when very tense and in pain. Through relaxation techniques such as self hypnosis, guided imagery you can actually see a physical response when your skin surface jumps 10 or 12 degrees just do to increased circulation through relaxation.
The biofeedback machine, which just measures one of these responses shows us that we do have some degree of control over things we assume we may not. Skin temp and galvanic skin response seem like they are simply controlled by our autonomic nervous system when in fact we can control some of the things we feel just occur because our brain is on auto pilot, so to speak.
Once you learn that you can control these things. The relaxation needed to make a measurable difference becomes a learned experience and we recognize when we are in that state of deepest relaxation. This can certainly reduce pain. I get short term relief but obviously you can't live in a guided imagery life. Other people get longer lasting results up to several days. Often I will be in excruciating pain and after 20 minutes of mindbending I fall asleep for a half hour or so and wake up with a much reduced level of pain. It comes back once I start doing my daily activity but the goal is to learn to do it without the machine and to recognize and sustain a relaxed state.
Karine, I hope you decided to give it some time. If you break the 15 mg Roxicodone in half, 7.5 mgs of Oxy is equal to 10 mgs of Hydro so you really have the same level and amount of BT meds.Both Oxy and Hydro bind to the same receptors so a doc wouldn't expect differencial withdrawal simply from switching from hydro to oxy.
You may respond better to Hydro though and there are compounding pharmacies that can create pure hydro capsules if that med works best. But the frequency shouldn't be as great if the base med is doing it's job.
I know someone that was in the Duragesic clinical trials for non malignant pain. Only 6% of the participants actually got 72 hours of relief. This 6% allows Jansen to advertise up to 72 hours of continuos relief. That's the way the box reads. Up to 72 hours. You may do fine at 60 or may need a 48 hour change, but get the strength right first and then work on the dosing.
Unfortunately some docs think the key to making long acting meds last longer is to increase the dose and this isn't the proper way to manage a faster metabolism or someone not getting the Manufacturers suggested longevity of pain relief. You end up over sedated for that same short perriod of time. More frequent lower doses result in less total opiate intake per day or month.
Take care, Shore
Biofeedback is just a relaxation technique in which they actually measure physical response when using a relaxation technique. A Biofeedback machine can measure Galvanic skin response, brain wave activity or show the patient in simpler terms through body surface temperature by placing a small measuring device on a finger.
When we are tense we have restricted blood flow, even at the capillary level. Your external skin temp may naturally be 88 degrees or drop that low when very tense and in pain. Through relaxation techniques such as self hypnosis, guided imagery you can actually see a physical response when your skin surface jumps 10 or 12 degrees just do to increased circulation through relaxation.
The biofeedback machine, which just measures one of these responses shows us that we do have some degree of control over things we assume we may not. Skin temp and galvanic skin response seem like they are simply controlled by our autonomic nervous system when in fact we can control some of the things we feel just occur because our brain is on auto pilot, so to speak.
Once you learn that you can control these things. The relaxation needed to make a measurable difference becomes a learned experience and we recognize when we are in that state of deepest relaxation. This can certainly reduce pain. I get short term relief but obviously you can't live in a guided imagery life. Other people get longer lasting results up to several days. Often I will be in excruciating pain and after 20 minutes of mindbending I fall asleep for a half hour or so and wake up with a much reduced level of pain. It comes back once I start doing my daily activity but the goal is to learn to do it without the machine and to recognize and sustain a relaxed state.
Karine, I hope you decided to give it some time. If you break the 15 mg Roxicodone in half, 7.5 mgs of Oxy is equal to 10 mgs of Hydro so you really have the same level and amount of BT meds.Both Oxy and Hydro bind to the same receptors so a doc wouldn't expect differencial withdrawal simply from switching from hydro to oxy.
You may respond better to Hydro though and there are compounding pharmacies that can create pure hydro capsules if that med works best. But the frequency shouldn't be as great if the base med is doing it's job.
I know someone that was in the Duragesic clinical trials for non malignant pain. Only 6% of the participants actually got 72 hours of relief. This 6% allows Jansen to advertise up to 72 hours of continuos relief. That's the way the box reads. Up to 72 hours. You may do fine at 60 or may need a 48 hour change, but get the strength right first and then work on the dosing.
Unfortunately some docs think the key to making long acting meds last longer is to increase the dose and this isn't the proper way to manage a faster metabolism or someone not getting the Manufacturers suggested longevity of pain relief. You end up over sedated for that same short perriod of time. More frequent lower doses result in less total opiate intake per day or month.
Take care, Shore