avogadro
08-24-2003, 10:57 AM
Can anyone tell me about experience with back surgery on bulging, degenerated, slipped disks? I also appear to now be having arthritis type problems with the joints from the bone rubbing together. I do NOT want to have surgery on my spine. I'm 31 years old and have days when I feel like I'm 80. But, the idea of surgery scares me to death. Also, I have a friend who is in the medical field and he has told me to avoid back surgery at all costs. He told me I would never get off the pain meds and would end up with addiction issues.
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Mo7609
08-25-2003, 10:17 AM
Some people have great results with back surgeries. My grandfather had a spinal fusion which is what you would probably have and has had no problems since recovering. Sure he has bad days every once in a while but for the most part he is out of pain. You might want to post on the back board you would get a better response I would think. Take Care Mo
avogadro
08-25-2003, 11:37 AM
Good suggestion! Thanks!
EmtShirl
08-25-2003, 11:43 AM
avogadro~
First off it sounds like your spine problems are a lot like mine. Are they from an injury? Mine are not. It sorta sounds like your are not also. If they are not from an injury then it can be a whole different story. What I mean is that it will be an on going "life time" of problems. :( I am now 40 Y/O and my problems started 8 years ago. I too have bulging, DDD, and arthritis throughout my whole spine. The main areas right now are lumbar and cervical. In my signature you can see what surgeries I have had already. I know the feeling like 80 feeling very well. :D
Yes, the though of surgery scares one to death but if you have complete trust in your doctor that really does help a lot. No, it still does not make you less scared but it sure helps!
Now for what your friend has told you......
I agree with the part that was said to avoid surgery at all cost but there comes a time when you and only you know it's the right time to go ahead and have it (surgery). Remember a few things 1) A lot of the times it helps but sometimes it may not. 2) With a lot of fusion surgeries one will need more sometime down the road. 3) Everyone is different.
Now for the pain meds and addiction issues......
DO NOT LISTEN to that one. That was uncalled for and totally not true! That is unless you already have issues with those types of problems. Yes, it can be a problem but I wish your friend would not have scared you like that.
Like I said before if your life is not functional (daily) and the pain in unbearable then it is really time to talk with your doctor about your options.
What type of doctor do you see? What has been done to this point? What medications have you tried? Has anything helped at all?
I look forward to hearing from you.
You might try posting on the Back Problems board as Mo has mentioned.
Shirl
------------------
Love,
Shirl
History:
1980- Transaxillary resection of 1st rib and division of band (left side)
1982- Diagnostic Laparoscopy
1985- Transaxillary excision of cervical rib (right side)
1991- Laser stapedectomy (right side)
1992- Fractional D&C
1992- Diagnostic Laparoscopy
1996- Lumbar hemilaminectomy
1999- Left knee arthoscopic surgery
2001- Laparoscopic assisted vaginal hysterectomy
2002- L5-S1 Microdiscectomy
2002- L4-L5, L5-S1 Anterior inter-body lumbar fusion with cages and my own bone from left hip for bone graft
2002- Neck problems Surgery??????
2002 DEC 21- C4-5, C5-C6 Anterior Cervical Corpectomy with Fusion and Internal Fixation (Bone from the bone bank)
First off it sounds like your spine problems are a lot like mine. Are they from an injury? Mine are not. It sorta sounds like your are not also. If they are not from an injury then it can be a whole different story. What I mean is that it will be an on going "life time" of problems. :( I am now 40 Y/O and my problems started 8 years ago. I too have bulging, DDD, and arthritis throughout my whole spine. The main areas right now are lumbar and cervical. In my signature you can see what surgeries I have had already. I know the feeling like 80 feeling very well. :D
Yes, the though of surgery scares one to death but if you have complete trust in your doctor that really does help a lot. No, it still does not make you less scared but it sure helps!
Now for what your friend has told you......
I agree with the part that was said to avoid surgery at all cost but there comes a time when you and only you know it's the right time to go ahead and have it (surgery). Remember a few things 1) A lot of the times it helps but sometimes it may not. 2) With a lot of fusion surgeries one will need more sometime down the road. 3) Everyone is different.
Now for the pain meds and addiction issues......
DO NOT LISTEN to that one. That was uncalled for and totally not true! That is unless you already have issues with those types of problems. Yes, it can be a problem but I wish your friend would not have scared you like that.
Like I said before if your life is not functional (daily) and the pain in unbearable then it is really time to talk with your doctor about your options.
What type of doctor do you see? What has been done to this point? What medications have you tried? Has anything helped at all?
I look forward to hearing from you.
You might try posting on the Back Problems board as Mo has mentioned.
Shirl
------------------
Love,
Shirl
History:
1980- Transaxillary resection of 1st rib and division of band (left side)
1982- Diagnostic Laparoscopy
1985- Transaxillary excision of cervical rib (right side)
1991- Laser stapedectomy (right side)
1992- Fractional D&C
1992- Diagnostic Laparoscopy
1996- Lumbar hemilaminectomy
1999- Left knee arthoscopic surgery
2001- Laparoscopic assisted vaginal hysterectomy
2002- L5-S1 Microdiscectomy
2002- L4-L5, L5-S1 Anterior inter-body lumbar fusion with cages and my own bone from left hip for bone graft
2002- Neck problems Surgery??????
2002 DEC 21- C4-5, C5-C6 Anterior Cervical Corpectomy with Fusion and Internal Fixation (Bone from the bone bank)
grizzk62
08-25-2003, 01:12 PM
avogadro,
Yes back surgery is scary I have had 4 surgerys on my back since 1985 when I broke my back. I agree with the advice of taking all other avenues before surgery. It should be a last resort measure. The problem of spine surgery is that it may not alieve the pain and because of the surgery there is scar tissue and most likely they will do a fusion which can lead to cause problems above the surgery of below the surgery what ever the case may be. I do feel for you and what may lay ahead of you. I would at least get a second opinion about the surgery if you descide to go ahead with it. I am a chronic pain patient and have be on some kind of pain meds for the last 19 yrs. The last year I have been on methadone and oxyIR. I do conscider myself dependant on those meds but not addictted. Addiction is a set of behaviors and actions. Depence is when you body needs the meds to lead a more productive life. I'm no more dependant on my pain meds as I'm no more dependant on my heart meds. I believe that they are the same. If I can be of futrther help please don't hesitate to ask and by all means keep us posted.
Matt
Yes back surgery is scary I have had 4 surgerys on my back since 1985 when I broke my back. I agree with the advice of taking all other avenues before surgery. It should be a last resort measure. The problem of spine surgery is that it may not alieve the pain and because of the surgery there is scar tissue and most likely they will do a fusion which can lead to cause problems above the surgery of below the surgery what ever the case may be. I do feel for you and what may lay ahead of you. I would at least get a second opinion about the surgery if you descide to go ahead with it. I am a chronic pain patient and have be on some kind of pain meds for the last 19 yrs. The last year I have been on methadone and oxyIR. I do conscider myself dependant on those meds but not addictted. Addiction is a set of behaviors and actions. Depence is when you body needs the meds to lead a more productive life. I'm no more dependant on my pain meds as I'm no more dependant on my heart meds. I believe that they are the same. If I can be of futrther help please don't hesitate to ask and by all means keep us posted.
Matt
EmtShirl
08-25-2003, 01:39 PM
Matt~
Thank you! You said just what I was trying to say but couldn't spit it out like you did! GREAT JOB explaining it. WONDERFUL WONDERFUL!
Shirl
------------------
Love,
Shirl
History:
1980- Transaxillary resection of 1st rib and division of band (left side)
1982- Diagnostic Laparoscopy
1985- Transaxillary excision of cervical rib (right side)
1991- Laser stapedectomy (right side)
1992- Fractional D&C
1992- Diagnostic Laparoscopy
1996- Lumbar hemilaminectomy
1999- Left knee arthoscopic surgery
2001- Laparoscopic assisted vaginal hysterectomy
2002- L5-S1 Microdiscectomy
2002- L4-L5, L5-S1 Anterior inter-body lumbar fusion with cages and my own bone from left hip for bone graft
2002- Neck problems Surgery??????
2002 DEC 21- C4-5, C5-C6 Anterior Cervical Corpectomy with Fusion and Internal Fixation (Bone from the bone bank)
Thank you! You said just what I was trying to say but couldn't spit it out like you did! GREAT JOB explaining it. WONDERFUL WONDERFUL!
Shirl
------------------
Love,
Shirl
History:
1980- Transaxillary resection of 1st rib and division of band (left side)
1982- Diagnostic Laparoscopy
1985- Transaxillary excision of cervical rib (right side)
1991- Laser stapedectomy (right side)
1992- Fractional D&C
1992- Diagnostic Laparoscopy
1996- Lumbar hemilaminectomy
1999- Left knee arthoscopic surgery
2001- Laparoscopic assisted vaginal hysterectomy
2002- L5-S1 Microdiscectomy
2002- L4-L5, L5-S1 Anterior inter-body lumbar fusion with cages and my own bone from left hip for bone graft
2002- Neck problems Surgery??????
2002 DEC 21- C4-5, C5-C6 Anterior Cervical Corpectomy with Fusion and Internal Fixation (Bone from the bone bank)
grizzk62
08-25-2003, 02:03 PM
Shirl,
Hey No problem. I thought that you did a good job of explaining as well. I think that some times it just helps to clarify anothers post or explaining it in just a different way. Hey it is good to have you here as well. I can see from your signature that you are a very well informed person as to pain and pain issues. Take care again and lets keep the dicussion going...
Matt
Hey No problem. I thought that you did a good job of explaining as well. I think that some times it just helps to clarify anothers post or explaining it in just a different way. Hey it is good to have you here as well. I can see from your signature that you are a very well informed person as to pain and pain issues. Take care again and lets keep the dicussion going...
Matt
avogadro
08-25-2003, 02:47 PM
Shirl,
The back injury is a big debate as to what caused it. I was in a car accident a year ago (rear ended while at a complete stop). Now, if you ask the car insurance company of the woman that hit us, they will tell you my injury was due to "previous morbid obesity" (after they got a copy of my medical records). Now, I had the surgery to lose weight almost 3 years ago. At the time of the accident, I had been down the 200 pounds and at a "normal" weight for almost 2 years.
If you ask my doctor, he will say that yes, weighing over 400 pounds for years probably meant that I did not have as strong a back as most people. But, the fact is, it never hurt until the accident. I may have been more seriously injured than someone else might have been. But, I was fine before the accident. This is obviously a sore subject with me since her insurance has yet to even reimburse me for my co-payments!
As far as treatment... I have been to physical therapy 3 times. I have had steroid injections and recently some other type of injection to help with the "arthritic" symptoms in the joint. I'm kind of confused about that - the injection felt like it was going into my hip (and D*MN to those injections HURT!). But, isn't the arthritis in my spine? I have to ask him about that on Thursday. What else? I've also had dye injected into the disks to see that they were actually torn on the inside. And, medications. The orthopedic doctor put me on a few different muscle relaxers but I wouldn't keep taking them. They made we WAY TOO groggy. I took it one night, my son wanted a glass of milk in the night and I got up and promptly fell over in my living room. I will not take anything that makes me so "out of it" that if he were sick or there was a fire or a break-in, that I would not be able to take care of or protect him. I'm a single mom and it is just the two of us in my house.
I had been to an orthopedic (back specialist)previously. He sent me to PT and that was it. The doctor now talking about surgery is a PM doctor. He is also the one doing the injections and so forth. As a matter of fact, he was the one who finally ordered the MRI and found the problem with the disks. Even the orthopedic just did x-rays and never diagnosed the actual problem!
I would think that surgery would be done by a back specialist and not the PM doctor. Right? I would certainly want a second opinion from someone who does back surgery on a regular basis.
I will keep you guys updated. I'm also going to talk to him Thursday about the MS Contin. It is working for me now but I am taking double what he prescribed. I'm not going to tell him that though.....
The back injury is a big debate as to what caused it. I was in a car accident a year ago (rear ended while at a complete stop). Now, if you ask the car insurance company of the woman that hit us, they will tell you my injury was due to "previous morbid obesity" (after they got a copy of my medical records). Now, I had the surgery to lose weight almost 3 years ago. At the time of the accident, I had been down the 200 pounds and at a "normal" weight for almost 2 years.
If you ask my doctor, he will say that yes, weighing over 400 pounds for years probably meant that I did not have as strong a back as most people. But, the fact is, it never hurt until the accident. I may have been more seriously injured than someone else might have been. But, I was fine before the accident. This is obviously a sore subject with me since her insurance has yet to even reimburse me for my co-payments!
As far as treatment... I have been to physical therapy 3 times. I have had steroid injections and recently some other type of injection to help with the "arthritic" symptoms in the joint. I'm kind of confused about that - the injection felt like it was going into my hip (and D*MN to those injections HURT!). But, isn't the arthritis in my spine? I have to ask him about that on Thursday. What else? I've also had dye injected into the disks to see that they were actually torn on the inside. And, medications. The orthopedic doctor put me on a few different muscle relaxers but I wouldn't keep taking them. They made we WAY TOO groggy. I took it one night, my son wanted a glass of milk in the night and I got up and promptly fell over in my living room. I will not take anything that makes me so "out of it" that if he were sick or there was a fire or a break-in, that I would not be able to take care of or protect him. I'm a single mom and it is just the two of us in my house.
I had been to an orthopedic (back specialist)previously. He sent me to PT and that was it. The doctor now talking about surgery is a PM doctor. He is also the one doing the injections and so forth. As a matter of fact, he was the one who finally ordered the MRI and found the problem with the disks. Even the orthopedic just did x-rays and never diagnosed the actual problem!
I would think that surgery would be done by a back specialist and not the PM doctor. Right? I would certainly want a second opinion from someone who does back surgery on a regular basis.
I will keep you guys updated. I'm also going to talk to him Thursday about the MS Contin. It is working for me now but I am taking double what he prescribed. I'm not going to tell him that though.....
EmtShirl
08-25-2003, 05:32 PM
Matt~
You are so kind and it also sounds like you are well informed yourself. I am willing to keep up the discussion if you are. You will find you can't keep me quiet after a while. hehe :D
avogadro~
I am so sorry you have to have this insurance company try to get away with putting the blame on your weight issue. It sounds to me that your weight didn't play a big part in this at all. Like you siad you didn't have a problem until the accident. I feel and I know you do too that they just don't want to pay!!!!! Darn the insurance companies! I am happy for you that you are doing well with your weight! :D (((((HUGS)))))
Are the injections you are taking about facet injections or ESI's (Epidural steroid injections)? Or both? The arthritis could be in the joints of the spine and also in the joints of your hips.
With most medications it takes some time for the side effects to wear of like the groggy feeling you get. What I mean is itmay take a few days to a few weeks of taking the med. to get your body used to it. Sometimes not. I know it's hard when you have kids and more so if you are the only care giver for your child. I am on a me med. again and just the other day I fell down the stairs. WOW! I don't even know how it happened! You never know what will happen! I have a few marks and bruises but I am OK!
Yes, you are right about surgery..... a PM doctor will not do the surgery. If you are going to get opinions and if you can get which I believe you SHOULD look at both Orthopedic and Neurosurgeon. I have a Neurosurgeon. I have the most faith in my doctor!
With you last comment here about taking double MS Contin. I am going to tell you first as a friend, retired EMT, fellowette spiney PLEASE PLEASE tell your doctor that you are taking as many as you are.
I am telling you this for many reasons...... You don't want to be accused of being a drug abuser/addict! This is THE BIG ONE long term!!!!!!!
If what the doctor has given you isn't working then they will know what kind of pain you are in and can give you something stronger.
The doctor prescribed an amount that goes with your body and taking more then prescribed can do harm to you.
I didn't want to sound mean. I just care!
Shirl
------------------
Love,
Shirl
History:
1980- Transaxillary resection of 1st rib and division of band (left side)
1982- Diagnostic Laparoscopy
1985- Transaxillary excision of cervical rib (right side)
1991- Laser stapedectomy (right side)
1992- Fractional D&C
1992- Diagnostic Laparoscopy
1996- Lumbar hemilaminectomy
1999- Left knee arthoscopic surgery
2001- Laparoscopic assisted vaginal hysterectomy
2002- L5-S1 Microdiscectomy
2002- L4-L5, L5-S1 Anterior inter-body lumbar fusion with cages and my own bone from left hip for bone graft
2002- Neck problems Surgery??????
2002 DEC 21- C4-5, C5-C6 Anterior Cervical Corpectomy with Fusion and Internal Fixation (Bone from the bone bank)
You are so kind and it also sounds like you are well informed yourself. I am willing to keep up the discussion if you are. You will find you can't keep me quiet after a while. hehe :D
avogadro~
I am so sorry you have to have this insurance company try to get away with putting the blame on your weight issue. It sounds to me that your weight didn't play a big part in this at all. Like you siad you didn't have a problem until the accident. I feel and I know you do too that they just don't want to pay!!!!! Darn the insurance companies! I am happy for you that you are doing well with your weight! :D (((((HUGS)))))
Are the injections you are taking about facet injections or ESI's (Epidural steroid injections)? Or both? The arthritis could be in the joints of the spine and also in the joints of your hips.
With most medications it takes some time for the side effects to wear of like the groggy feeling you get. What I mean is itmay take a few days to a few weeks of taking the med. to get your body used to it. Sometimes not. I know it's hard when you have kids and more so if you are the only care giver for your child. I am on a me med. again and just the other day I fell down the stairs. WOW! I don't even know how it happened! You never know what will happen! I have a few marks and bruises but I am OK!
Yes, you are right about surgery..... a PM doctor will not do the surgery. If you are going to get opinions and if you can get which I believe you SHOULD look at both Orthopedic and Neurosurgeon. I have a Neurosurgeon. I have the most faith in my doctor!
With you last comment here about taking double MS Contin. I am going to tell you first as a friend, retired EMT, fellowette spiney PLEASE PLEASE tell your doctor that you are taking as many as you are.
I am telling you this for many reasons...... You don't want to be accused of being a drug abuser/addict! This is THE BIG ONE long term!!!!!!!
If what the doctor has given you isn't working then they will know what kind of pain you are in and can give you something stronger.
The doctor prescribed an amount that goes with your body and taking more then prescribed can do harm to you.
I didn't want to sound mean. I just care!
Shirl
------------------
Love,
Shirl
History:
1980- Transaxillary resection of 1st rib and division of band (left side)
1982- Diagnostic Laparoscopy
1985- Transaxillary excision of cervical rib (right side)
1991- Laser stapedectomy (right side)
1992- Fractional D&C
1992- Diagnostic Laparoscopy
1996- Lumbar hemilaminectomy
1999- Left knee arthoscopic surgery
2001- Laparoscopic assisted vaginal hysterectomy
2002- L5-S1 Microdiscectomy
2002- L4-L5, L5-S1 Anterior inter-body lumbar fusion with cages and my own bone from left hip for bone graft
2002- Neck problems Surgery??????
2002 DEC 21- C4-5, C5-C6 Anterior Cervical Corpectomy with Fusion and Internal Fixation (Bone from the bone bank)
avogadro
08-25-2003, 05:52 PM
Shirl,
I know the injections they did in day surgery were ESI. I don't know about the one he did in the office for the joint/arthritis.
I'm not sure about the med thing now. I had others recommend that I not tell the dr I was taking 30mg instead of 15mg. Just to tell him the 15mg wasn't working. I think he would understand the problems I was having ovewr the weekend. I had just received that Rx on Friday afternoon (never taken it before) and was in terrible pain Friday and Saturday morning (and he did not give me Vicodin or anything else for b/t pain). I took the 30mg when someone mentioned that I probably had a higher tolerence because of the Vicodin I had been taking for the past year. I guess I will just see how it goes Thursday. He might also switch me to the patch. I did contact my gastic bypass doctor's office and they told me that the time release meds do not work well for us (bypass patients) because of the altered intestional system.
And.. I know you just care and I appreciate it!
I know the injections they did in day surgery were ESI. I don't know about the one he did in the office for the joint/arthritis.
I'm not sure about the med thing now. I had others recommend that I not tell the dr I was taking 30mg instead of 15mg. Just to tell him the 15mg wasn't working. I think he would understand the problems I was having ovewr the weekend. I had just received that Rx on Friday afternoon (never taken it before) and was in terrible pain Friday and Saturday morning (and he did not give me Vicodin or anything else for b/t pain). I took the 30mg when someone mentioned that I probably had a higher tolerence because of the Vicodin I had been taking for the past year. I guess I will just see how it goes Thursday. He might also switch me to the patch. I did contact my gastic bypass doctor's office and they told me that the time release meds do not work well for us (bypass patients) because of the altered intestional system.
And.. I know you just care and I appreciate it!
cricket2764
08-26-2003, 09:13 AM
Would just like to put my 2 cents in on back surgery. I was told by mom and dad (he has had 4 back surgerys )not to do it. I was in such pain would go to work and cry all day. It was nerve pain in my right leg. Had surgery on L5/S1 decompressive. It was a great. Hurt the same disc in April had to have surgery agian on L5/S1. Have had a lot of problems this time but that is another story. Hope every thing works out for you.
Will be keeping you in my
prays.
Shelba
Will be keeping you in my
prays.
Shelba
Barry
08-26-2003, 09:53 AM
Hi all,i am still recovreing from my second back sergary.first one was a diskectamy and it lasted a year 1/2 and i was in so much pain. I was taking 8-9 7.5 or 10 mg loatabs aday. i WAS a machanic and it was a labor intence job.this one was a fusion l5 s1 .i'm 9 months out now and i feel alot better.i do have to take loratabs(2-3) everyday but im alot happer.I have no clue as to what kind of job i could get to pay close to my last one and not to phical.