neuromind
10-24-2003, 02:51 AM
Anyone know of any substances that lower opiate tolerance. I went from 2 reg strength vicodin , 2months later im up to oxy 40mg 3x daily.
nm
nm
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kmail
10-24-2003, 05:56 AM
Not that my response can help, but I think tolerance may be related to past use of drugs and/or amounts of over the counter meds taken prior.
Even so, it has taken 6 years for my husband to go from Vicodin up to 200mg oxycontin/day.
Ask your doctor, and do a search of "drug interaction oxycontin." There is a website I used to check (when my Mom was on all kinds of meds) to see if new drugs she was given would interact with her current meds. I will look at the papers I got with hubby's oxy to see if there are things you should avoid. If I find anything I will post it.
Strange, though, most docs are afraid to prescribe such strong meds, and yours happily prescribed Oxy? It took us probably nearly a year to get Oxy from Kaiser dr. Can you tell me what type of pain you suffer from?
Even so, it has taken 6 years for my husband to go from Vicodin up to 200mg oxycontin/day.
Ask your doctor, and do a search of "drug interaction oxycontin." There is a website I used to check (when my Mom was on all kinds of meds) to see if new drugs she was given would interact with her current meds. I will look at the papers I got with hubby's oxy to see if there are things you should avoid. If I find anything I will post it.
Strange, though, most docs are afraid to prescribe such strong meds, and yours happily prescribed Oxy? It took us probably nearly a year to get Oxy from Kaiser dr. Can you tell me what type of pain you suffer from?
dwpavlik
10-24-2003, 01:23 PM
Hi
I have tried to lower my tolerance by taking less of my meds. In the winter time I have to use the highest strength of my meds. I use Oxys. It is prescribes to use 80mg twice daily. In the summer I can use 4 tablets every 6 hours. Or even only take 3 per day at 8 hour intervals. But in the winter I need the -mg dose and I need to take a fifth tablet per day to not get the withdrawal from when the 80's ware off in the early morning. But When I am able, like Summer time, I simply take less of the meds and lower the tolerance that way.
Don :)
I have tried to lower my tolerance by taking less of my meds. In the winter time I have to use the highest strength of my meds. I use Oxys. It is prescribes to use 80mg twice daily. In the summer I can use 4 tablets every 6 hours. Or even only take 3 per day at 8 hour intervals. But in the winter I need the -mg dose and I need to take a fifth tablet per day to not get the withdrawal from when the 80's ware off in the early morning. But When I am able, like Summer time, I simply take less of the meds and lower the tolerance that way.
Don :)
AJS
10-24-2003, 07:47 PM
I use to take alot i mean alot of over the counter pain stuff and they never worked but i kept taking more and more to hopefully get relief,now that i know whats wrong with me i get percribed 80mgs of oxycontin twice a day and 10mgs of oxy ir when needed.and it still does not really help with my pain :( but better then the lower doses i have recentley been on.Best to talk with your Dr about it and maybe he/she will have a good solution.
AJS
AJS
PoloBailey
10-25-2003, 02:04 AM
Just try to do your best and keep a positive attitude. It is very hard NOT to increase your meds when you are hurting. But just keep in mind that in the long run it will be much better for you. I always thought that if I kept on increasing my med's, years later I would be taking so much of them I would be sicker and sicker because of so much medication in my system. If you can just keep them as low as possible for as long as possible, it will give you room later on in life to increase it later on.
GOOD LUCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GOOD LUCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4mykids
10-25-2003, 03:43 AM
I don't have an answer to your quesion, but kmail, I have kaiser too and it seems like they are even harder to deal with than other doctors. At least that's been my experience. It took 1 1/2 years to convince them to do an MRI, when I know my old doctor with Aetna would've ordered it in a heartbeat. Just my two cents.
Shoreline
10-25-2003, 09:26 PM
Hi NM, You should talk toyour doc about using dextromathorphan. It's now available n a gel cap of pure DM called Dexalone. Dex is a NMDA receptor blocker whci is believed to increase ones tolerance to pain and decrease ones tolerance to meds. Meds that bind to this site rather than block can cause Hyperalgesia=increased pain.
Methadone has some NMDA blocking ability, that is why it's suposed to work better on nerve pain and people develop slow tolerance to this med. Levo-phanol is anoth mild NMDA blocking agent. Giving other opiates the ability that meth has is in the process of clinical trials where LA morphine products are being deveveoped with dex.
When Hydrocodone is compounded into a pure long acting version without apap, dex is used to prolong duration and increase efficacy. Talk to your doc about dex, plain old cougn syrup. Compounding hydro and dex capsules requires a special compounding pharmacist and are certainly more expensive than generic vicoden off the shelf.
If you have muscle spasm, controlling the spasm would be an adjunt med and increase opiates effects. Why are you taking hydro if I might ask? It's hard to give blanket advice since all pain doesn't respond the same way to ceratin meds.
Good luck, Shore
Methadone has some NMDA blocking ability, that is why it's suposed to work better on nerve pain and people develop slow tolerance to this med. Levo-phanol is anoth mild NMDA blocking agent. Giving other opiates the ability that meth has is in the process of clinical trials where LA morphine products are being deveveoped with dex.
When Hydrocodone is compounded into a pure long acting version without apap, dex is used to prolong duration and increase efficacy. Talk to your doc about dex, plain old cougn syrup. Compounding hydro and dex capsules requires a special compounding pharmacist and are certainly more expensive than generic vicoden off the shelf.
If you have muscle spasm, controlling the spasm would be an adjunt med and increase opiates effects. Why are you taking hydro if I might ask? It's hard to give blanket advice since all pain doesn't respond the same way to ceratin meds.
Good luck, Shore
igy76
10-25-2003, 10:13 PM
Hi Shoreline,
Well what you just said was news to me, about that drug I mean. So, to get it clear, dextromathorphan is what, an active ingredient in cough syrup (i.e. - Nyquil)? Okay then, could you answer me this: obviously no matter what we're on, EVERYBODY here would love to be able to have a slower tolerance to their meds, not to mention higher for pain. And I'm even on Methadone, which like you know, has that slower rate. But could even I go out and by cough syrup, take a couple doses during the day and have it stretch out my tolerance even more? Does it work that way, or am I being naive and just wishful thinking? (or like I said, no matter what med you're on, you'd maybe want to take that to increase your tolerance).
But of course, maybe I've got it all wrong, in the same way that you can't just go and pick a poppy plant, devour it on the spot and expect to get high from it or something. Thanks and take care :)
Well what you just said was news to me, about that drug I mean. So, to get it clear, dextromathorphan is what, an active ingredient in cough syrup (i.e. - Nyquil)? Okay then, could you answer me this: obviously no matter what we're on, EVERYBODY here would love to be able to have a slower tolerance to their meds, not to mention higher for pain. And I'm even on Methadone, which like you know, has that slower rate. But could even I go out and by cough syrup, take a couple doses during the day and have it stretch out my tolerance even more? Does it work that way, or am I being naive and just wishful thinking? (or like I said, no matter what med you're on, you'd maybe want to take that to increase your tolerance).
But of course, maybe I've got it all wrong, in the same way that you can't just go and pick a poppy plant, devour it on the spot and expect to get high from it or something. Thanks and take care :)
Shoreline
10-26-2003, 10:26 AM
Adding Dex "yes The active ingredient in cough syrup" to meth isn't really going to give it a property it doesn't already have. That is blocking the NMDA receptor. It may increase meths blocking ability so it somewhat depends of your dose of methadone.
My dose is rather high so adding 90 mgs of dex didn't really do anything the meth wasn't already doing. However if your dose is relatively low, say 30-40 mgs a day then a boost of pure dex 30mgs TID may help with tolerance and pain perception. Dexalone is a 30mg capsule of pure Dex. TID is the standard dosing instructions. It's not cheap though so you would have to have a noticeable improvement to make it worthwhile.
Ketamine is also a strong NMDA receptor blocker but I don't think your doc is going to want you to take street special K to boost the effectiveness of your opiates. Ketamine is an animal tranquilizer that happens to block the NMDA receptor too. It's also a popular designer street drug like ecstasy and GBA.
Perhaps in the future small amounts of Ketamine will be added to LA meds to give them the same NMDA blocking ability.
They are making progress in understanding all the receptors involved in pain management and perception. Unfortunately it's against the TOS to post or cut and paste such articles.
Ketamine is occasionally used on humans to induce a coma to break the cycle of chronic daily migraines but requires use of a vent when you induce a coma.
The best results have been found when adding dex to morphine. Many of the new LA morphine products in clinical trials are being developed with dex.
Using cough syrup that's not pure dex is going to add other meds into the mix that may not be safe, thus the need for a pure dex capsule "Dexalone"
Nyquil is going to add more than just dex, the alcohol alone is going to have an impact on every med you presently take plus the antihistamine will have some impact on your meds.
Talk to your doctor about adding Dexalone to your present meds, other interactions have to be considered before just adding an OTC cough syrup to the mix.
I would post a link about Dex and the NMDA receptor but after my week of reflection
;) LOL I find it unfortunate that people aren't able to actually help more than just offering a shoulder to lean on.
Talk with your doc about DEX, If your doc actually has an interest in the science of PM he will be up to date on what DEX can do for you and possibly suggest reading material without being punished.
MY ability to post outweighs my desire to back what I'm suggesting with actual aricles or links.
I really am sorry I can't be more help, Shore
Do a search for Dex and opiate interactions.
Or do some research on the NMDA receptor or Ketamine and the NMDA receptor.
[This message has been edited by Shoreline (edited 10-26-2003).]
My dose is rather high so adding 90 mgs of dex didn't really do anything the meth wasn't already doing. However if your dose is relatively low, say 30-40 mgs a day then a boost of pure dex 30mgs TID may help with tolerance and pain perception. Dexalone is a 30mg capsule of pure Dex. TID is the standard dosing instructions. It's not cheap though so you would have to have a noticeable improvement to make it worthwhile.
Ketamine is also a strong NMDA receptor blocker but I don't think your doc is going to want you to take street special K to boost the effectiveness of your opiates. Ketamine is an animal tranquilizer that happens to block the NMDA receptor too. It's also a popular designer street drug like ecstasy and GBA.
Perhaps in the future small amounts of Ketamine will be added to LA meds to give them the same NMDA blocking ability.
They are making progress in understanding all the receptors involved in pain management and perception. Unfortunately it's against the TOS to post or cut and paste such articles.
Ketamine is occasionally used on humans to induce a coma to break the cycle of chronic daily migraines but requires use of a vent when you induce a coma.
The best results have been found when adding dex to morphine. Many of the new LA morphine products in clinical trials are being developed with dex.
Using cough syrup that's not pure dex is going to add other meds into the mix that may not be safe, thus the need for a pure dex capsule "Dexalone"
Nyquil is going to add more than just dex, the alcohol alone is going to have an impact on every med you presently take plus the antihistamine will have some impact on your meds.
Talk to your doctor about adding Dexalone to your present meds, other interactions have to be considered before just adding an OTC cough syrup to the mix.
I would post a link about Dex and the NMDA receptor but after my week of reflection
;) LOL I find it unfortunate that people aren't able to actually help more than just offering a shoulder to lean on.
Talk with your doc about DEX, If your doc actually has an interest in the science of PM he will be up to date on what DEX can do for you and possibly suggest reading material without being punished.
MY ability to post outweighs my desire to back what I'm suggesting with actual aricles or links.
I really am sorry I can't be more help, Shore
Do a search for Dex and opiate interactions.
Or do some research on the NMDA receptor or Ketamine and the NMDA receptor.
[This message has been edited by Shoreline (edited 10-26-2003).]