My son is 5 and ADD/ADHD has been "politely suggested" by well meaning friends since he was 3. He talks and sings non-stop, always on the go. His teacher sends notes home every week or so saying he wouldn't do his work, disrupted the class with his talking and noise making. He does not follow through on jobs we ask him to do. The only way we get him to do anything is to either threaten him with punishment or bribe him with rewards for doing it. He is very intelligent and has photographic memory - especially long term memory. He can tell you what color hat a person was wearing 2 years ago on a particular outing. He baffles us with his memory and abilities. He is very artistic and musically inclined. HOWEVER, the downside is that he simply will not listen. He goes into a screaming RAGE if he does not want to do something. Punishment, time-out, etc. simply does not work. We have taken toys away, TV time away and nothing works. Does this sound like ADD/ADHD? It is hard to understand how he can be so intelligent and so wonderful at times, but when it is BAD it is BAD!! We have also noticed he is more out of control when he has had sugar so we have cut candy and junk food OUT! That has seemed to help some, but the rage still prevails at times. Any suggestions?

Join the 5yr old problem club,sweetpea.We're going through the SAME thing.And the memory thing is exactly how our son is too.Trust me,it's driving us nuts!I will be getting him tested soon,but for now,we have to put up with it.I know what your going thru,it's tough and gives me headaches from his constant chatterboxing he does.You can't tell him to relax,cause he has no idea what it is.

Does your son get frustrated or angry alot?Can he go to the bathroom without touching EVERYTHING he shouldn't be?I thought that at 5 you wouldn't need to lock everything up.Did I mention he dumped my daughter's 35$prescription medicine on the floor because he "wanted to".He's very destructive and will destroy everything he can and will.Trust me,I know this is abnormal behaviour.And people say to me that negative attention to him is better then no attention at all.I give my attention as I can but he just goes off and does what he wants to do,when he wants to do it.

Have you tried not punishing him?

It seems parent's first approach is to punish, restrict, take things away, give them time outs, send them to their rooms, spankings (if that is the tradition in your home), and otherwise drawing attention to negative behavior.

He's a 5 year old, which means while he is a little person, he is a sentient being, he is capable of distinguishing self from other, and his prime directive until he reaches maturity will be that of self-preservation to the exclusion of everyone or everything else. They are not intentionally trying to irritate, aggravate, annoy, hurt you or drive you crazy -- to punish implies they've given conscious consideration with that particular motive.

Kids, like adults, would rather be praised than punished, but they'd also rather be punished than ignored. You have some options. If you insist on punishing your child, it would seem the grandest punishment would be that of ignoring him. To punish overtly such as time outs, sending him to his room and taking away toys, is still a form of attention, and he wins. Plain and simple, he learns that he can get what he wants (ie: mom's attention). Remember, he'd rather be praised (attention) than punished, but he'd rather get punished (still attention) than ignored (real punishment).

These are basic psychology tools -- although trying to keep them at arm's distance when you feel like pulling your hair out of your head is not always easy, I realize.

It sounds like you have a clever genius on your hand, and he is using his cleverness to rule the roost. His brilliance will not only show itself in terms of his great memory and creativity, but also in ways to manipulate mom and dad and sibs. At this age he's like a sponge. He can soak everything up around him and is eager to make his mark and make an impression.

Does he have any sibs?

Before deciding your cherub needs to be medicated (and I realize you did not imply that), you may want to consider some other alternatives, such as what else is going on, -- at home, in school, in the family, with his friends, pets, activities, hobbies, etc.

Remember, if he's driving you crazy, think about that statement for a moment: You've got a small child who is vying for your attention. He's doing everything he can to make an impression on you and GET your attention. He'd rather be praised and receive your positive attention (or other forms of positive reinforcement), but he'll take punishment over ignoring him. Either way, he still gets what he wants.

So why not cut to the chase, and just ask him? Sit him down and ask him point blank: What do you want? Asking him what he wants will give you insight into why he's behaving this way, and in particular, the certain acts which are having the greatest impact.

Without knowing more, some possible suggestions are: Is he feeling lonely? Afraid? Is he sensing tension or problems with mom and dad (kids are FAR more astute and aware than we as grown ups give them credit for). Has he lost the limelight due to the arrival of another child? Did things get worse when he started preschool or kindergarten?

He wants your attention and acceptance, and you're responding to his requests by punishing him. He isn't going to rationalize this as you and I are as adults, he is only going to associate his wanting your attention as being bad and worthy of punishment. This does not fare well for children's self esteem, nor does it teach them to express themselves in productive ways.

If you wanted your husband's attention (for example), and he did not give it to you,...suppose at first he ignored you. Would you accept this and play nice and stop there? Suppose you felt lonely, afraid, neglected (whether or not ANYONE ELSE thinks you're justified is irrelevent, they are YOUR feelings),... and you try to explain and he responds by telling you how over-emotional you are, how bad you are for needing all this attention and affection from him, and he retreats further from you, giving you less and less of what it is you really want,...

After a while, -- think truly about this, -- just how far do you think you would really go to keep the family together and get your attention that you need, and get attention to whatever else you feel needs it such as chores, fun stuff, romance, cuddles, family time,...

It's really all connected, but we express ourselves in the way WE know best. Not always the way the other person wants us to. Your 5 year old is learning. He's trying to express himself in the only way he's learned to.

Try to be direct with him, ask him what he wants, and see what happens when you really listen and give it to him. (Note: Saying he wants to blow something up or sock his sister in the nose -- really means something ELSE, and if you keep asking him until you get to the bottom of what THOSE actions represent, and give him THAT,...you may be quite surprised).

We act out when we don't get what we want. When we get what we want (ie: attention, affection, reassurance, love, acceptance)...we learn to be direct. Right now he's being INDIRECT (ie: toys, time out, punishment, acting out)...

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Life isn't what happens to you -- it's how you react to it!

Thankyou Merridia.That makes sense.I should try that and I'll let you know what happens.

sweetpea104, has your child been tested in school or at his pediatrician's office? If so, what kind of testing has been done. What does your pediatrician say? Badgirl

Thanks for your replies. To clarify - he is not constantly punished. He gets so much love and attention and at times we do STOP EVERYTHING and ask him exactly what it is he wants. We quietly sit on his bed and read book after book. We own a business and he has to spend some time there on Saturdays and sometimes in the afternoon. If given a "job" to do, he usually does it AND HE GETS ALOT OF PRAISE AND LOVE! I do sometimes feel guilty that my business takes up so much of my time, but we also involve our kids so they are a part of it too. He has not been tested. I talked with a leading child psychologist. She serves on a national board for ADD/ADHD. She says we will NOT test him until he is in school (i.e., 1st grade). She feels it will not be a true test reult at this age and may only label him giving teachers a reason to treat him differently. She suggested some things for the teacher to do last year - for example telling him it's time to sit in your seat and the class is going to write our letters. If he does it, he gets a sticker. If he doesn't do it, she repeats the instruction, but he does not get a sticker if he doesn't do the assignment. Well, that was last year and the teacher would not follow through with it. We changed to another kindergarten for 4K and his teacher is WONDERFUL! She just has 15 4 and 5 year olds and can't have him disrupting the class. He goes through weeks of doing well and then he decides he doesn't want to do his work that day. She makes him stay inside at recess and he usually does his work very well and very quickly so he can go out to play. When I asked him if he liked missing recess he said no but he got his work done by himself and then went out to play. The psychologist suggested he is just a little boy who is extremely intelligent and is just high maintenance. I don't know. It's just frustrating sometimes especially when well meaning adults suggest ADD/ADHD and a leading professional says NO PROBABLY NOT.

He sounds a lot like my son who was diagnosed at age 5. He was put on meds for ADHD and was doing extremely well until the medicine he was on seemed to stop working. We tried new meds and in the process, found that in addition to ADHD he has Asperger's Syndrome which has a lot of the symptoms of ADHD. There is a wonderful book called Driven to Distraction that might be a good research tool for you. And certainly, I wouldn't wait until another whole year goes by to get him tested. By the end of another year, other chidren will have already labeled him as weird or crazy or whatever. The earlier a diagnosis of ADHD is made or it is truly ruled out, it will be difficult to cope. As far as the tantrums, in part they are age appropriate. It seems like 5-6 is the age where mom and dad are no longer gods and the little one suddenly can (and does) think for themself!