Hello all. I thought I would open up a thread for the purpose of discussing the quotes in a previous message of mine entitled "A+ Information on ADD ADHD "

If you can't find the original post of all the quotes please check here: http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001402.html

Lets not argue, lets just disagree. Just because somebody has a different opinion does not make them 100% wrong and it does not mean they are bad people.

There are all types of people on this board. From what I have read most are parents and then there are a few folks who have ADD/ADHD.

Everyones opinion is valid!

Now lets talk. Many of the quotes were related to medication. If there are any other topics you would like to see quoted let me know and I'll see about finding some that relate to what you are looking for.

Some things I would like people to start talking about on this board are:

What is your definition of ADHD?

Do you consider it a handicap/disorder?

What treatment worked best for you/your child?

Who first suggested ADD to be the problem in you or your child?

What do you think about the high number of prescriptions being written for medications such as ritalin after only short evaluations that last between 30min to a couple of hours?

What are your responses to the quotes in the previous post? Linked above and also found here: http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001402.html

Then of course anything else you may want to talk about that is related to ADD.

Those are just some of my ideas about things I would like to get people talking about. Of course you don't have to answer any of those questions. It's just suggestions for some conversation starters.

Have fun, share info, and please remember BE NICE!

Well, I know it does exist but if they are going to claim it to be a biological disease/defect, then there should be a test to measure dopamine(or whatever, since they use non-dopamine meds for it these days) and also there should be a measure of what is normal amounts/levels. Just like measures of blood pressure, sugar levels, thyroid levels and hormones, there should be more exact science in this. This is especially important when the first line of treatment is a group of hazardous, even harmful drugs. Nobody in their right mind would agree to chemotherapy on the assumption their symptoms are cancer caused; same for insulin if one only had symptoms of diabetes without measuring blood sugar levels. So if psychiatrists want to play in the biological backyard of actual disease, they should play by the same rules.

I think that it does exist but it is not as common as people make it out to be. It is way too overdiagnosed. It seems like if a child is having any trouble with school or behavior they just automatically diagnose ADD. I think that there are a lot of children out there who just have different learning styles, personality types, are a little more active than their peers and are on these hard core meds supposedly treating ADHD. I believe that most children who carry an ADHD diagnose don't have a disorder. They are just different.

I think that there are a small portion of people who actually have the "disorder" and could benefit from treatment. Even so, I dont think these medications should be used as a first line treatment.

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~*~ Kristy ~*~

I am surprised that I am the 1st "Adder" that has replied to this post but I feel like I had to give my opinion. First of all, here is a quick outline of my past.I am 24 years old, diagnosed w/Add when I was in 7th grade, not an easy diagnosis at all. I went through 3 months of intense therapy, plus ritalin vs. placebo testing. Finally, after months of this they diagnosed me with ADHD, they started me on I think 10mg of Ritalin a day and ,I must admit saw immidiate changes in my life. Everything seemed so much clearer to me. I could actually sit through a class w/out being so distracted and so bored I would of done anything to get out of class. (that led to many trips to the office in my past)I was loving school, Everything was great and I felt so much better about myself. Before I used to cry and freak out during every test because I couldn't get my mind to slow down and concentrate on the test itself. Now everything was different. So on I went in school, taking my meds and feeling great. I enrolled in an alternative school in 10th grade to get some extra help and that was great too. 11th grade I decided to go back to "regular" high school. That didn't work so well for me....pretty soon I started getting into trouble and hanging out with the wrong crowd. My Mom's insurance ran out cause of her job and my ritalin was no longer available to me. Note that at this time I was still taking no more than 15mg's a day. When I didn't have my meds anymore, I found myself back in 7th grade, unable to get through a day of school. I tried therapy, counseling and everything else.....nothing worked. Eventually I found myself hangin with people who used Meth, up intil then I was completly against it. Bottom line is I tried it once, I soon found out that if I did it in moderation it was almost like being on ritalin, not that it made me feel high or stay up for days or anything like that but it actually settled me down and made me feel normal. This went on for about a year, I watched my friends do more and more meth and nobody could ever figure out why I was so happy with a tiny ammount of it. It was because I didn't do it to get high, I did it to function normally. Anyways, I finally got medical insurance and went to my doctor, I told him what had been going on and said I need you to help me get off this crap, he prescribed me a very very low dose of adderall and monitered me very close, once every 2 weeks i went to see him. Since that day in his office I have never used any type of meth, my doctor saved my life, he helped me through a very tough time in my life. Like I said before I never did meth because I got high, I did it to make me feel normal. Basically here is my point...........everyone seems to talk about how putting your children on meds is so bad and how there are so many other things out there to try. I read a comment that said "all they need is good nutrition and a happy enviroment" To me that is insane, are you saying all I needed was to eat good and be happy and none of those problems I had would of existed? Please....I read where people compare stimulants to poison, or say that ritalin & adderall are narcotics, " no different than heroin & Cocaine".Sorry but that is just not true, in moderated doses, stimulants can be life savers for people. They were for me.I honestly think there is something wrong with my brain and it doesn't function like everyone else's.. All I know is that I read this website everyday and I just wish I was reading about more adults who have had success with the meds they are on. Instead I feel like people here spend so much time putting down stimulants and not stopping to think how helpful these medications can be to some people. Anyways, I am still on Adderal to this day, I switched to the Xr and I take 60mg a day,I honestly don't know where I would be without the help of this medication! For the parents out there, don't be afraid your child is going to end up some mentally dissabled drugie from these meds, if they work you will be able to tell and if not try something else! Again this is just my story and I would love to see other people reply with the same situations as mine!

Ocean FYI dont make false statements about other people on the board...its not polite! You are not the first ADDer to respond to the post. I have ADHD. If you dont know who does and does not have ADD/ADHD then whats the point of saying that you are the only ADDer to respond? Just because you may disagree with what I think or anyone else thinks doesnt mean that they dont have ADD. Having ADD does not equal to having the same opinions and thoughts on the subject as you do.

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~*~ Kristy ~*~

Born2BeWild~
I agree with you, I am sorry if it sounded like I was making it out to be I was the only "Adder" to reply. I think what I was trying to say was that I was the only ADDer that has had success with my "stimulants" that had replied. I didn't mean any offense to you so sorry if you took it that way... I apolagize for that.

Also I want to add that it's not that I disagree with what you have to say I just wanted to share my story and talk about how Add has affected my life. No need to take that one line out of my entire post and run with it...

Ocean we do disagree and thats perfectly fine. You think stimulants are a good treatment, I dont think so. Thats disagreeing. That is GOOD! To have an interesting conversation there needs to be all different opinions. The problem I had with your post was your statement of being the only ADDer to respond. You apoligized for that.. its all good no worries.

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~*~ Kristy ~*~


As a reply to the rest of the contents of your post which apparently because I didnt respond you think I just read the one line???

Why would you tell parents not to be afraid to try these medications? Tons of these kids arent even really ADHD and those who are should not automatically be put on these meds. Medications are a BIG DEAL! Expecially stimulants. All other treatments should be tried BEFORE trying stimulants. Why would you want to urge a parent to try a stimulant then only move on to other treatments if the stimulant fails? Doesnt it make more sense to try the natural, healthier aproaches to treatment first then move on to the medications if those dont work? If a stimulant is used first and it works then the child will most likely be taking it for years. Its possible that if this same child tried natural aproaches and alternative therapies first and had success medications could have been avoided all together.

You know what, these medications are related to cocaine and meth. They are drugs. If someone was to put controlled dosages of ecstasy into a medication and then say it was safe would you want to give it to your kids? No one with any sense would! Yet somehow doctors and teachers have people believing that speed, in medication form is completely safe. It can cause the same damage as cocaine and meth to the brain. If a child has an addictive gene these medications can activate it causing drug addiction. Sure its true this doesnt happen all the time. But just to know that there is a possibility should be alarming. Sure there are some people who need medications badly and couldnt function without them. But they are a very very small minority. Alternative treatments, supplements, counseling, etc etc should all be tried first. A parent/ADDer should do everything they can to try to avoid medications. Then and only then, as a last resort turn to medications. You're still on the med are you going to take it for the rest of your life?? Many times a person is somewhat bad off, they take the med and it normalizes them, but then once the med is stopped they are 5 times worse off than they were before they ever sought treatment. You werent one of the unlucky children like many today. The little ones who are under 6 years old.... some as young as 2 or 3 being prescribed these drugs. Growing up for years, in the critical time when you are a young child and your brain is growing, wiring itself, learning to perform. Its obvious that putting any sort of drug or medication into such a young person will negatively influence their brain wiring later on. Their brain becomes dependant on the med.

There are a lot of good parents who have made the tough decision to put their children on these medications. The good parents who lost sleep because they didnt want to have to do this to their child and they stayed up researching trying to find a better way. These are the parents who tried all possible alternative treatments, things that some people have probably never heard of. But sadly their children were not helped by any of these safer, healthier treatments. Then they give the child the medications and it helps... it is sooooo great that it helps and ya know, these parents have nothing to feel guilty about because they did all they could for their child. It is highly likely that their children were in that tiny group of children truly suffering from a severe form of ADD. So stimulants arent all bad..... but most of the time they are. They are bad because many of the people taking them dont even have ADHD. They are bad because they ARE DRUGS! They are bad because of how they can negatively effect a person who if other treatments were tried first, the medication could have been avoided all together.

For that tiny group of people they are a life saver, just because thats the group youre in doesnt mean its the group everyones in.
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~*~ Kristy ~*~

[This message has been edited by Born2BeWild (edited 09-19-2003).]

Actually I never said I thought stimulants were a good idea for everyone. I simply told my story about how they were good for me. I think that it's great that all the natural remedies for ADHD have worked for you, I wish I would of had the same luck, I just wanted everyone else to see that there are people who have had good results from stimulants. I wouldn't say we disagree at all, I mean I agree with your treatment 100%. I think everyone with ADHD reacts different to all types of treatment, I just hope everyone finds one that will work for them.

[This message has been edited by oceanchic (edited 09-19-2003).]

"Actually I never said I thought stimulants were a good idea for everyone. I simply told my story about how they were good for me. " - Oceanchic

Ok then I apoligize for misunderstanding your point of view. (lots of apologizing going on when ADDers are having a conversation hmmmm lol)

Just the fact that you said parents shouldnt be afraid of these meds really got to me. Because I have seen these medications do some horrible things to people. They are hard core. I think that any parent considering any type of medication should be a little scared. You are lucky that they had no negative effect on you but many others arent so lucky. Doctors push these meds on patients. They give out the prescriptions like candy. If a parent isnt concerned at all with the possible dangers of these meds then they would just give it to their kid without question, without even researching healthier treatments. Enough parents do that already, just because they dont know any better. We dont need more kids/people taking these medications than is necessary. Everyone knows stimulant treatment is available. Few people know about the alternative treatments.

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~*~ Kristy ~*~

I think the idea of being afraid or scared of medications is not the problem. If a parent who is contemplating putting their child on medication for their ADD does a little research, and understands both the pro and con of the med, there need be no fear.

If we truly know our children, and we educate ourselves about ADD and ADHD, and the medications used to treat these issues, then we can make informed decisions about whether or not to put our children on medications.

Some people do just fine with a homeopathic treatment, while others do just fine with prescription medications. Whatever works is great. I'm thrilled that we at least have all these options, and not just a "one size fits all" answer.

If Oceanchic does well with her meds, more power to her. It doesn't sound at all like anybody just threw her on the drug to shut her up.

If Born2bewild does well with her homeopathic meds, more power there also.

The main thing we need to do is educate ourselves about the options and understand that no two people are alike with their ADD. Everybody is unique, and often times, like so many other medications, it is a process of trial and error that gets the best results.

I for one am glad there are options, and that we can make truly informed decisions without being scared or frightened. Educating ourselves is the key to overcoming those fears.

Thanks Pitterpat~ The only point I was originally trying to make is that it is possible for people to have good results from prescription medication. I agree that as long as you as a parent or adult educate yourself on the disorder & also the medications then you should be quite capable of making an informed decision. And also I stand by my statement that parents should not be afraid of looking at every single kind of treatment out there for ADD, including stimulants (if it's the 1st treatment they look at or the last I feel it make no difference). I mean how can I really?? I have been on these medications for 10 years off and on and I am a perfectly normal successful woman. I think that says a lot!

*Also I can't help wonder if there is something in the water in Washington state since a few of us seem to come from there!***lol ;~)

Ocean - You didnt start taking them until age 13 correct? And obviously you truly need your meds. Its great that you have something that works for you.

The thing is many kids are put on these medications at very young ages. Some not even really having ADHD.

I disagree about it not mattering what order you try the types of treatments. Trying medication first doesnt make sense because if the medication works then the person will likely never go on to try other treatments. A person should try the healthiest treatments FIRST and move down the line to eventually medication if needed.

First - behavior therapy/counseling/ biofeedback (unfortunantly not widely available http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif )

Moving on - Natural aproaches like supplements, diet, some people have success with herbal remedies

Then medication

Why does it matter what order... well like I said it makes sense to try the healthiest FIRST. Then if it works you can avoid strong medications all together. So what happens if a kid tries a stimulant med first and it causes severe permanent damage and this same kid, if he had tried the healthier aproaches FIRST and has success the permanent damage could have been avoided. Obviously the order is important. Dont get me wrong it is great when a person on medication decides to research and try other treatments. Usually the only reason they didnt try them first is because they didnt have information or access that they needed. But if you do have the knowledge and recourses it just makes sense to try the healthiest and most natural treatments first.



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~*~ Kristy ~*~

I am a licensed practical nurse. My husband was recently diagnosed with ADD. Lots of people seem to be taking things the wrong way on this board! I would just like to say that these meds ARE beneficial to many many people. I would advise researching the subject, and the meds before you allow yourself or your child to start them; it's always a good idea to know what you're getting into. By the same token, you should research any alternative treatments as well. And I would like to point out that "all natural" DOES NOT MEAN healthier!!!!! Products advertised as all natural can actually be MORE dangerous, for several reasons. First, because most are NOT REGULATED by the FDA or other agancies. This means that you are not guaranteed of getting the same levels of active ingredients from bottle to bottle. It also means that it may not work at all(and maybe it does...who knows, most are not clinically tested). Second, because many people(note that I did not say ALL people)do not have the supervision of a healthcare professional when taking these products. Third, because proper dosing instructions usually cannot be verified through another source. Fourth, because side effects may not be listed or may be downplayed because these companies do not have to list them anywhere. There are many documented instances (ephedra, anyone?) of people becoming mentally ill, extremely sick, or even DYING from products touted to be "all natural". I am not putting them down, Kristy...I am sure that there are many people out there that find that they work for them. I am just saying that people should think about this stuff and not feel that these products can't hurt them because they are natural. Opium is all natural...so is arsenic, and hallucinogenic mushrooms, and many many other things. Please take any meds, natural or not, with extreme caution. And let's ALL try to be a bit more tolerant of the other posters on these boards--we're all human beings with feelings here!

Thanks for giving me a place to voice my opinion. I hope this helps, and good luck to you all, with WHATEVER treatments you decide to try.

By the way, the Mirriam-Webster Medical Dictionary defines "drug" as any substance other than food intended to affect the structure or function of the body. Which would include "all-natural" products.

PLEASE PLEASE check the ingredients of the product you intend to use and look them up on reputable sites BEFORE you take anything or give it to your child!!!

Same goes for prescribed meds--and make sure you check for drug to drug interactions. Drugs can also have adverse effects when taken with certain herbs and herbal products, so make sure your doctor or pharmacist
knows about EVERYTHING you are taking.

Thanks again!

Dear Wife...

I think what Kristy has to say is that look at all types of help available, you can go to a naturopath and get help with natural remedies.

I disagree with hanging everything on FDA approved remedies as the FDA approves things that aren't always in our best interest. BHT for one in packaging as a preservative. Some of the dyes in foods that are out there affect children's behaviors, and what about the mercury in imunizations? They have often had to look back and go WHOOPS! we shouldn't have given that, look what happened! on medications that have been given and caused birth defects etc.

Anyway, I like seeing all the conversation out there. I am not for giving "speed" to children, especially at the tender age of 2 which is what is happening.... This creates life long psyche patients and no doctor knows the long term affect of these meds. How bout the few who have died from taking these drugs and the "shooters" out there who have taken other peoples lives that were on these kind of drugs. Scarey stuff I say!

I agree there may be a small percentage.....and I mean small! that have some mental health issues out there but again I say not in the millions!

Laters,
g

A lot of people are missing the essential point about medication with ADD. It is not possible to put a non-ADD person on Ritalin and "medicate them into submission." Ritalin does not calm normal people. It makes them wired and high. A misbehaving kid who suddenly behaves when on stimulants almost certainly has ADHD.

There are some ADD'ers that don't respond to stimulants but they are usually the inattentive and lethargic type. All the hyper poeple I have talked to calmed down with stimulants. I speak from the experience of being around many ADD people in support groups.

Secondly, I don't think any of us are in the position to estimate what percentage of the population has ADD. Just because it doesn't seem possible that so many people could have it doesn't it isn't possible. It also could be much less than anyone thinks. We are not reasearch scientists with appropriate tools. And ADD is so new that appropriate tools are hard to come up with. Nobody says to a Acne patient, your face will clear up if you will just wash it like everyone else does, and yet doctors haven't found a cure and can only test for the symptoms (big red spots).

The point is that people who "misbehave" often need a lot more atteniton and a lot less blaming.

Hey here is an idea for Born and Ocean.


You came to this sight to talk with others about your problems and to get advice, like most of us.

Arguing over the opinion of another is just immature. We live here in the US, and we are allowed to have our own opinions of what is right and wrong.

ADD/ADHD people are normal, we just do things different. We are often put down for taking medications that help us to focus. Everyone is different. Some parents really aren't trying hard enough, because some parents do put their kids on this stuff going by what a school teacher says and how their kid is hyper. Children have energy, it's a fact. It doesn't mean they are ADHD, they are just children growing. Then we have children who have more problems than hyperactivity.

I have ADD, and my best friend for many years is ADHD. We are completely different in most of our actions, how we function etc. We are both very smart, during our public school years didn't really have to try to make an "A".

Here was where the difference came in with our family and how we had to deal with this.

His dad was a doctor so he was put on the medicines, I wasn't. My family didn't believe me and since i did well in school, they could have cared less.

One problem with our school system is that the teachers, parents, everyone is guilty of wanting a quick fix, wanting their children to be able to focus and to be able to behave all at once.

I would say that the teachers need to spend more time in school learning how to teach children who are ADD, ADHD. We need things to be taught to us differently many times. But you see our society isn't doing this year so we are forced to go to medications that can make our life a little edgy etc. As a child I can't remember having a single teacher who didn't get frustrated with me asking questions or me getting them to "show me that one more time please". The teachers would get frustrated with you and eventually they would begin to point the finger at you saying you weren't a good student, or that you could try harder to be a better student. It was ridiculous for me, and those teachers stand out in my mind as the ones who left us behind while the kids who had no problems moved on with schoolwork etc.


Disagreements aren't helping our society grow and learn to deal, treat, and help the children who have these problems.

I think that the opinion posts, when everyone is civil, are very informative. They give everyone here a chance to tell us what they think and why. It leads to a lot of good conversation and I would have to say that people talking about differing opinions does help society.

You are now stating your opinion... right after you said that you dont like any of these posts hmmmmmmmm ironic.

What you said about ADD being different, I do agree with that. The thing is for some its different to an extent of not being able to function. I think that most kids who are put on these meds shouldnt be. But there are some kids and adults for that matter, who really do have problems and are helped by medications. I think the teachers out there should not be teachers, but at what they get paid anually we cant really expect to get many quality people in there. Teachers need to go through more training than what they do. They need to learn about all different types of learning styles. That way they could teach in ways that encorportaed all these styles and made things easier for everyone in the class to learn. Also I have noticed, a lot of teachers now dont even like kids! This is crazy... an old grumpy person who has no energy and doesnt like loud noises, who only likes quiet and calm has no right to be teaching a class of 2nd graders.

[This message has been edited by * Free ~ Spirit * (edited 09-26-2003).]

Manda,
I think I am missing the point of your post directed towards born & myself. We were simply having a discussion about our different views on ADD, after all this is a "discussion board". I actually learned a lot from those posts from born2bwild. She made some really good points and made me think a little differently! I really don't think it was immature behavior at all.

Dear Manda,

Well you got out there with your opinion so how are you different?

Anyway, I agree with Freedom figher.....we need to get the discussion going.....the meds, the choices, all of it needs to be discussed because there ARE children out there who do NOT need the heartache of being on this, that, and the other medication.

I graduated 2 in my class and I was the student with endless questions and lived in the math center trying to get it right. But I did it. My mother and father both said I'd have been a Target for this "disorder" if it had been around when I was a kid as I was always talking, standing on my head, etc. If I was frustrated with school I got help from the teachers. Why is tutoring and extra help not an option when a kid is getting C's and D's instead they need speed or some form of it to get better grades.

There are some on here that are quite opinionated but good for them! They care about our future generations and what all of this is doing to them. How is a child going to grow up and be equipped if they are medicated to get through school. And how good is the outlook if Johnny or Susie has to be on some kind of medication the rest of their lives just to function.

I went to my son's Open House last nite and I applaud his teacher. When they get in trouble they get to call home and tell mom and dad about it. If they miss turning in their assignments they get an F, if they miss a few, teacher calls home and lets mom & dad know. She is trying to teach them responsibility. Which is learned. Every kid learns at their own pace. How can they learn these kind of lessons if they are taught they aren't normal and cannot function without being on some kind of pill.

My son is full of energy as i have posted on many occasions but he is learning that he is responsible to get up and go to school and do the work or there are conseqences. He doesn't alway like it but we all must do things we don't always like.....

well, that's enough, off my soapbox for n****aters,
g

Grace -
I always enjoy reading your posts http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif Having a good teacher is an important thing. In 5th grade I had a horrible teacher who was very mean and harrassed me. Every morning before school I would be in tears because I didnt want to have to go and deal with this teacher all day. Eventually (sometime around december) my mom got me transfered to a different class. This teacher was very strict but very nice. Every week we had an assignment and task sheet we had to take home to get signed. It had comments about class behavior as well as notes about any late or missing assignments. At the begining I ALWAYS had late assignments marked down and usually a couple missing asignments as well. By the end of that year... for the whole last quarter of school I had no missing or late assignments and got to enjoy an end of the year pizza party (for those who had frequently turned in all their assignments) and I also got a book as a prize. I was VERY proud of myself, and my teacher was very proud too. I could have never learned to turn in my work on time without the system of weekly checks that he used in his classroom.

Dear mmmelicious
Here is a solid fact:

"Positive response to medication is confirmation of a diagnosis of ADD.

FACT: The fact that a child shows improvement of attention span or a reduction of activity while taking ADD medication does not substantiate the diagnosis of ADD. Even some normal children will show a marked improvement in attentiveness when they take ADD medications."

Dear Free Spirit....

Thanks for that!

Dear Freedom Fighter, I think what you are doing on this board it great! I know I get quite passionate sometimes in my postings but it just breaks my heart when I read some of this stuff.

Any way, thanks again......you've managed to do what I couldn't.

God Bless,
g

[This message has been edited by saved by grace (edited 09-29-2003).]