How about we post how are kids are doing with it?

My son who is 9 will be starting on Saturday. 25mg for 4 days then 40 mg for the rest ...... He is 72 pounds and tall... I will start posting a diary of what is going on if others will do so too to help me.... Sound like a good idea?......

[This message has been edited by mommtothree (edited 07-01-2003).]

My son is also 9 but only weighs 56 pds. We started straterra 5 weeks ago and overall I am very pleased. He is much happier and calmer than he was on adderal he also can now fall asleep much easier and he is eating which is huge because he is so skinny. I will warn you that at week two he became very moody and emotional. It did go away within a few days. also I find that one dose a day ins not enough to make it through the day. I give him a 10mg. pill at about 4:00 and that makes it last.He takes 25 mg in the morning. If you have any questions let me know. Good luck

My son is 8 and has been on Strattera for about three months, this is his first med. The first week or two were tough very tired and nauseous. We too went through a moody stage but he seems to be out of it now. Overall the response has been great. Much calmer more focused, we had big impulse issues and this seems to have helped alot. He got the best report card he's ever had this past June. He is starting to make some friends and his self esteem is slowly working it's way up. I don't think I saw how much the adhd was eating away at his self confidence until we put him on the drugs and saw the change. Good luck to you hope you have the same results we did. Any questions... shoot them my way I'd be happy to help if I can. I know this board has saved my sanity, having people to relate to been priceless.


[This message has been edited by relieved mom (edited 07-01-2003).]

My son is 11 years old. Weight 70 lbs. We tried ritilin, aderall, and Concerta off and on for 2 years. Doctors took him off all meds when he lost way to much weight and the meds would stop working and they would increase then a few months later they would stop again.

After 2 years of no meds. We tried strattera. Started on 25mg for 4 days. Had to give it to him at night because he could not stay awake during the day. Seemed to be working. We did note the moody period about 1 week into the meds. Then he started complaining of a stomach ache. Found out he was constipated. Gave him something for that. Which gave him some relief. Then it keep happening. Went back to the doctor she said give it 2 more weeks if the constipation does not stop take him off the meds.

Well after a month of meds we had to stop. He would go for 6 days at a time and not be able to go to the bathroom. Even after starting him on benifiber 2 times a day.

So we are medicine free again. I will report that the strattera just did not seem to work all that great. It did slow him down, but was not a calm effect it was a dead tired state. Also did not seem to help him focus. Only good thing I noted was he went to bed really early and his mood was some what better.

Oh also the meds caused him to wake a number of times during the night and had a hard time returning to sleep. Now that he is off the meds. He is resting well again and the constipation has stopped.

We are going to stay off meds for the rest of the summer and see how he does when school starts.

Kay

My son who just turned 9 was on Strattera for two months (Feb.-March) His behavior took a drastic change for the worse. He became paranoid to the point of being terrified of going to school because he thought bombs were going to blow the building up. He could not function in the classroom - he would hide in the closet, lay down under his desk, and constantly call out. He was in the Principal's office every day, and did not even understand why. It took several weeks for the drug to get out of his system, and it was during this time that he was re-evaluated by the child study team and diagnosed with Pervasive Development Disorder NOS with a recommendation for full-time special ed in a class for kids with behavior disorders. The ONLY time my son had such severe symptoms of PDD was while he was on Strattera; he is otherwise a pretty normal ADHD kid with some outstanding qualities along with his idiosyncrosies. He is now on Ritalin (15 mg. in the morning and 10mg. at lunch time), and is doing very well. For him, Strattera was literally a nightmare.

[This message has been edited by T-bone-Mama (edited 07-02-2003).]

Wow, TBone.

My daughter has been on Strattera since mid May. She seemed to be very tired for around a week or so. Then that wore off.

She was only on it for a few weeks during school time. School was over for her around the second week of school.

Right now I'm not sure if the Strattera is starting to lose it's affect. She seems to be very impulsive again, I noticed on the weekend. But it could have been due to the fact that she was excited because we had a lot going on.

She goes to a summer camp at her daycare so I plan on talking to her teacher to see how her behavior is.

We've been doing some reading to try and improve her skills. We read every other night for around 30 minutes. She seems pretty focused.

I'm hoping that the strattera will work and keep working because I don't really think I'd like to switch up and keep trying to find the "perfect med" for her.

I am glad that you guys have replied and I have this board to come to.. Today was day three of Strattera. He is on 25mg thru tomorrow then will jump to 40.. so far nothing really seems too different..

He is ADHD with very impulsive behavior (which is why is he is in so much trouble at home and school).. He is eating really well, so far no constipation and seems to be as active as ever.. We alos were advised to give him his meds at night, what time fo day do you give yours to your child?

I am keeping a daily log and I also jotted down the symptons that you guys mentioned too....It helps!!

To those of you off Strattera, keep in touch with us on what your child is doing now so we can at least all help each other.. If anyone needs help with adderall xr questions fire away here and I will see what I can do to help....

[This message has been edited by mommtothree (edited 07-07-2003).]

I also noticed that we all seem to have kids the same age and I wondered about the doses of medicine our kids were on.. My son is 72 pounds and 9 and is on 25mg thru tomorrow then ups to 40 mg. I just read the thread about the sexual problems in men taking strattera and saw that one of the men over there is on 54 mgs a day.. Now why would my son be on such a high dose (40mg) to start?? Anyone else concerned over that and the thread about sexual dysfunction?

Hi everyone, thanks for the board. I'm sure no one else can understand our unique challenges quite like WE can understand each other's. My girl is 10 years old and started Strattera 3 months ago. She was diagnosed with ADHD in 2nd grade and used Concerta for about 6 months, had to discontinue due to stomach pains and sleeplessness, then was on Adderall for about a year. The Adderall worked well but she didn't eat much and it made her too edgy and the crashing afternoon period (right on top of homework, of course!) was terrible. Some sleeplessness too. So when I heard about Straterra I wanted to try it. I really like that it is not a stimulant or a controlled substance, makes getting scrip fills so much easier (and cheaper!) with 90 day mail order. As far as how she is doing - well, it took about a month adjustment period. She is focusing MUCH better. The doctor said Strattera has a cumulative effect; but I can definitely see an immediate effect within an hour of taking the meds. She has somewhat of a 'flat affect' when medicated; but oddly, even though she might seem disinterested in a given activity, after it is over she will comment "I enjoyed that (activity) more than anything ever!". That in itself is unusual for her. I would describe her demeanor when medicated as "full contact" as opposed to very surface, limited contact when not medicated. So I have to conclude that she is feeling and experiencing more while medicated than she is letting on at the time. Also, the 'rebound effect' is bad when the meds wear off. She has a more marked 'hyper' period when the meds wear off. She gets very cranky and has the 'pit viper' disposition for a few hours. I have considered adding a second dose in the afternoon. She is currently taking 25 mg. which seems adequate dose but I would like to see an extended release for longer duration. Her grades were average this semester and slightly up from last semester on Adderall (even though she has a gifted IQ of 131). It was a rocky period of adjustment, however so I am hopeful for better grades next year. For the record, I was totally opposed to meds when she first got the ADHD diagnosis. Then, our psychologist commented to me one day that if we did not medicate, my girl's grades would probably continue to decline, her self esteem would snowball downhill and such cases often ultimately drop out of school. That persuaded me to use the meds, although I constantly second guess that decision. I'm not sure why things are the way they are - but that IS the reality we have to deal with and we are dealing with it daily via lots of structure, consistency, boundaries, love and meds. I never pictured myself as a 24-hour a day drill sergeant but that is me. In the years where she should start to be doing things on her own I find that I must still monitor her constantly. In a nutshell, for example - the other day we were riding in the car, I was driving along and we were chatting and laughing. Having a normal conversation. She was relating to me coherently and with full contact. Normal. I hate to use that word, but that is what Strattera is doing for us. For now, anyway. Stay tuned. Good luck to you all and please keep posting so I will know I am not alone.

Hi gang ,

Day 6 here and absolutley amazing... A little stomachache but thats about it.. He is really doing well and even told me he feels better and wants to do beter. I can totally relate to what you posted Agirlname sue about riding in the car.. The little things are such a blessing... Well wanted to let everyone know how we are doing....

Hello, well I am not a mom but a Dad with an 8 year old son who has been on Strattera for two months now. Funny thing about us is that I also have ADHD which I found after reading about my son. He started on Concerta and I on Strattera. He started getting too many facial clicks on concerta, and I had the sexual side affects you read about as well as being tired during the day and not sleeping at night. Heres the funny part I switched to Adderal and he to Strattera. He is doing well. He had the extreme tiredness but our phsycologist recommended he take it at bed time. He takes 40mg and started with 20. He is on summer break so we can not yet compare it to concerta as far as school work but his baseball coach made an extremely cool comment the other day. He said "I wanted you to know how much your son has grown in the past few months with the baseball" He had improved vastly with attention, patience, teamwork all of the above. I am very pleased so far with his results. Looking forward to school starting again to see if he gets the same or better results with the grades.

------------------

I'm another one with a son on Strattera. He's 11 years old, an only child, and weighs 60 pounds. He's very bright but has trouble making and maintaining friendships, even though he's a nice kid, partly because he can seem aloof and disinterested. He's been responding pretty well to the strattera; he's on 36 mg/day, which seems an odd dosage: it's two 18-mg tablets in the morning. My husband's not happy with him taking any drugs but understands the necessity for now.

Does anyone else notice a difficulty making and maintaining friendships in thier children, and has straterra made any difference in this? Thanks for any thoughts on this.

meckman

Hi, I have been reading this posting about kids and Strattas. My doctor just recemended this med for my 13 year old daughter. I am very hesitant about trying her on another med. She has had a drastic weight loss (due to the stimulate medication). She was taking dexidrine.

She currently weights 83lb that is up 8lbs since she stopped the stimulate a month ago.

She also has a very difficult time making and keeping friends. Social skills counsling was recomended by her doctor. Lindsey has been going for about 6 months now and things are improving some but very slowly. This is something that take time. She just misses social cue that most people pick up.

Every child with ADHD is different. I have 2 daughter that both have been diagnosed with ADHD. My oldest daughter is a social butterfly, where Lin isn't. Believe me it breaks my heart to see her left out!

Nels

My 14 year old daughter was on Strattera for about 3 weeks. She really liked how it worked...made her feel calm and focused, but she broke out with a severe case of hives and swelling of the extremities so we had to stop the meds. After the Strattera was stopped, the hives went away. Don't know if it was the Strattera or not, but am afraid to try it again as the swelling was SO bad that it was very scary! My daughter did like the way the Strattera helped her mind, though.

My daughter does not have a lot of friends. Most of the children in her class at school don't like her. She's always saying how much the kids don't like her and how they talk about her and make her feel bad about herself.

I talk to her everyday about this and try to let her know that she is beautiful inside and out.

The Strattera has not helped her in social situations. She is seeing a psychologist but that doesn't seem to be working either.

I've been trying to get her into small play groups (she's 7) with maybe one or two other children. That way she can play and if necessary I can redirect her when she acts out of line.

Over the weekend we went to a park with a friends son and all was well for the first hour or so but after that my daughter turned mean and nasty. She was acting very selfish and bossy. I had to redirect her several times and even had to pull her to the side once.

I guess everything takes time.

Hi! So glad to see so many people responding to this. My dd is turning 9 next week & we just started her on the Straterra. She has ADD & was on Adderall for most of the school year last year. It made a remarkable difference & she is now in the Gifted & Talented program at our school. However, she lost way too much weight & we had to take her off. She started the Straterra about 2 weeks ago, but I don't see too much of a difference yet. She gets very tired so we are giving it to her 2 hours before bedtime. I'm so afraid it won't work as well as the Adderall & she will have to drop the G&T program. She was very quiet & shy on the Adderall & didn't have too many friends. She seems to be more social on the Strat., but I hope it works as well as the Add. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif

My son also switched to bedtime taking the strattera. It seems to be working but I've read other people say the Strattera wears off despite the info out there. I am anxious for school to start to see how he does socially. Last school year was not good and the end of the year was too late for that to change however a new year starts and I hope it proves to be better with his social life. I can tell you the Strattera made a big difference with his social skills on the baseball team.

I've read the Strattera will help the weight problem, my son could stand to gain a couple pounds will wait and see

nels10, thanks for the feedback on social situations. My son misses social cues, too, and is at the age (11) where he is sometimes teased. He's working on ignoring the teasing, and some of the other kids in his camp (and at school during the school year) try to help him by encouraging him to ignore the teasing. I think he gets teased because he talks so much and often in a loud voice. I encourage him to pay attention to when he's doing this and try to modulate his voice down and give others a chance to talk.

Courtney's mom, Peter acted in much the same way when he was 7. It'd kill me to see him drive away potential friends by getting loud and bossy! He's much better at that now, and really tries to be courteous. But it took time and work. Good luck with your daughter!

Thanks,

Margaret

Hi all, I am glad to see so many replies.. We ahve been super busy here but wanted to check in.. Week 2 here and DS has gained about 4 pounds.. He has been taking the strattera at night before bedtime and wakes up ravenous... Big change from the adderall (even though he never lost weight on adderall he really didn't gain either) he is sleeping very peacefully at night and even sleeps in past SIX OCLOCK!!!!

The problems I still notice are.... stomachache.. but that could be b/c he is eating so much better that his body needs to get used to the different amount of food he is consuming..

He still is having social skill problems, and does not always react the way other children do in the same setting.. EX: bossy, too goofy at times and a little gross at others.. which would not seem to be a big deal but he he should know when he is about to cross the line but he seems to sense it and jump right over the social boundries anyway...

Anyway things are looking up and I am glad that I have a place to come to share.. Looking forward to hearing more pros and cons.... see ya!!

My son is on 40 mg of Strattera WITH one 10mg morning dose of Ritalin. He just turned 11 and was on Concerta for 1 1/2 years. As with many of your children, he didn't gain any weight and rarely got to sleep before midnight. The Strattera does seem to help his impulsivity, appetite, sleep habits, and anxiety. It doesn't seem to do much for his ability to focus; that's why he takes the Ritalin too. My son's friendship situation has improved some recently--many ADHD kids don't seem to read social cues very well. He's not agressive, mean, or physical, but he can't seem to tell when people are getting irritated with something he's doing, or he'll keep doing something after someone has told him to stop. He's an awesome athlete, and I'd say that's helping him develop some friendships too. As someone else mentioned, I'm VERY concerned about the possibility of long term male side effects. If men are having sexual and prostate related problems while on Strattera, I wonder what the medication might do to boys entering puberty. I'm not sure what we'll do when school starts again. I may put him back on Concerta, but use a lower dose and combine it with Ritalin. We'll see.

dear meckman, my 8 year old son has been on Strattera for about four months, this is his first med. He too has had lots of problems with friends. He's bright creative and desparately wanted friends but he drove them away. Mostly he was so impulsive and loud kids were put out by him. Strattera has really helped I see him now playing quietly giving and taking he's actually a really thoughtful kid if he gets the chance to think out his choices a little bit before acting on them, he still has lots of energy but it's channeled in an appropriate way. He is starting to seem really happy, his self esteem has taken a huge boost. He also got the best report card ever this last quarter and home life is much more happy (sibling rivalry continues to be a struggle for us any ideas on that would be helpful we have a 4 year old boy as well). Thanks for the great board

I don't have any children, but I read through this post, and it's great to see all of the success that your children are having on Strattera. I'm 22 and on it as well, and it works great. And I really like that it's a non-stimulant.

This is great information...thanks everyone for sharing. My son is 10 years old and has been on Strattera of 4 weeks, the first couple of weeks supplemented with Concerta until we were up to his target dose of 40 mg., but now he is off the Concerta. I have a call into his doctor today because I don't feel he is doing as well on the Strattera as he did on the Concerta. He also takes Seroquel in the evenings to help him relax and sleep and I was hoping with the Strattera that we could eventually eliminate his evening meds. My son seems to have a much harder time paying attention, and staying on task and focused with the Strattera and he is constantly talking and fidgeting. With the Concerta, the main concern was the impulsivity. Perhaps he will need to be on a both.

why do parents take their keds OFF meds when out of school???..Can't understand that one at all...ADD does NOT go away because school is out and we don't take meds so school can HANDLE us or better grades...PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS>>>WE HAVE A DISEASE>>>HAS TO BE CONTROLLED NOT ONLY WITH MEDS, BUT BEHAVIOR MOD., COACHING, STRUCTURE, TEACHING ORGANIZATIONAL SKILLS..ETC...Yes I am an adult, medical professional and I have ADD. I was diagnosed years and years ago..Thought I outgrew it until recently when,(due to back injury), I got addicted to Vicodin and went to Sierra Tucson and was rediagnosed with ADD...Never ever take them off once you start and have good results, especially with Straterra..It builds and takes awhile to reach peak, so when you stop you are basically starting all over agin, plus what can be accomplished in the summer or vacations when their ADD is running rampant because you took them off their meds...I hate drugs and am glad for Straterra, it has worked for me all the stimulants did was keep me up and INCREASED my ADD, which can happen..rethink taking them off the meds for vacations!!!!!

week three just started and a few issues we have had to deal with, bossing his friends yesterday (they went home on their choice)antagonizing his sister till she was in tears, not following rules of the house.. all things that are normal but he carries them to extremes which at his age really should not be a issue except for his adhd....

he is doing reasonably well on strattera, sleeping, eating and if we could get this social issues under control life would be great!!! I like that it is a non stimulant.. we are continuing with family therapy because his issues effects all of us and thats going well too... One thing we have learned is telling him, the choice or decision you have made is leading us to make this decision to deal with you, it seems to be working b/c he is slowing down a tad bit b4 jumping headfirst w/o thinking of the consequence...

hopefully, the social graces will come soon because he is driving his friends away....so thats what we are working on now.. thanks for listening and sharing your story and life... http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by mommtothree (edited 07-23-2003).]

I moved the time we take the medicine back to about dinner time. I will let you guys know how it goes..

how many people are taking it at night time? And how many at breakfast? Just curious what is working better out there..... Thanks!

Mommtothree,

Just curious, why doesn't your son take the Strattera in the morning?

I was told by his Ped doc and the pharmacist b/c it causes sleepiness to give it to him at night...When does you child take it and do you see any "sleepy" symptons?

I've been reading the posts on this topic, and to be completely honest, I'm scared and disgusted by the general theme.

You're all making your kids sick with these drugs, I'm reading of stomach problems, sleep problems, weight loss, mood swings, etc...

Worse than that, you're making them feel that something is wrong with them in your eyes, no matter how much you try to sugar-coat it. They will see the truth.

How do you justify to your children what you're doing to them?

How do you explain it to them?

Do you care in the least how they feel about being socially stigmatized as flawed..., or only how their teachers and counselors feel about their "behavior problems?"

Why don't you just give your kids the love and attention they desire and desperately need, instead of making drug experiments out of them?

I wonder are the schools and health care officials FORCING you to harm your children in this way?

I'm sorry if I am upset about this topic. I was labelled ADD when I was about nine years old, and fought with the system for several years. I'm almost 30 now, and a father myself. I still have symptoms, and have never attempted to wash them away with medication.

Listen to me carefully now, I still hold a sizeable measure of enmity for both of my parents for the ordeal they put me through, and I've never fully been able to trust them again. They let the schools and psychologists intimidate them, when they knew it was the wrong thing to do, and tried to force me to take medication for ADD. I may have been hyper, or innatentive as a child, but I always held love and trust in my family.. until they broke it.

You don't know how alone a child feels when his parents turn against him.

It's far worse than any petty behavior problem.

My parents didn't see this.

Now they sit alone in their empty nest and wonder why I don't visit as often, or bring their granddaughter around as much as they would like. They still don't understand, after 20 years.

After all, they were only trying to help, right?

Is this how you want your kids to see you?

Please reconsider what you're doing to your kids, I know you're all posting here because you are somewhat troubled with guilt in the first place. I understand that you are all unsure if you're doing the right thing, ethically.

In this case guilt and uncertainty is justifiable.

There are more important things in the world than fitting into a school like a puzzle piece, or being the model perfect child.

Love your children for who they are, not for who society says they should be.




------------------
SKEPTIKALLY---
there's no such thing

This person sounds like one of those TV salesmen, only one who wants to sell drugs to your kids.

>why do parents take their keds OFF meds when out of >school???..Can't understand that one at all...

Because the school MAKES them put their kids on meds in the first place! Maybe they want to see their REAL CHILDREN again once in a while, not the puppet that the meds make them become!

>ADD does NOT go away because school is out and we >don't take meds so school can HANDLE us or better >grades...PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS>>>WE HAVE A >DISEASE>>>HAS TO BE CONTROLLED NOT ONLY WITH MEDS, >BUT BEHAVIOR MOD., COACHING, STRUCTURE, TEACHING >ORGANIZATIONAL SKILLS..ETC.

Ever heard the one about how Holidays are events created by greeting card companies to make money?
ADD is the creation of drug companies and doctors and schools, which is fed with laziness, not a real disease. That's just to make you feel better about what's being done to you.

>..Yes I am an adult, medical professional and I have >ADD. I was diagnosed years and years ago..Thought I >outgrew it until recently when,(due to back injury), >I got addicted to Vicodin and went to Sierra Tucson >and was rediagnosed with ADD...

And you just 'agreed' with the diagnoses?
And went from one crutch to another?
Good job. Real nice.... Might as well go back to the Vic, dude. Which fix was cheaper?

>Never ever take them off once you start and have good >results,

This is drug company, healthcare industry rhetoric, and there's not supposed to be free advertising on these boards.
This is probably the scariest and most revealing part of your post. You said you were a healthcare professional, right?

Do the rest of you parents want your children to end up like this? This is what happens when you give up on yourself and your children.

Read the next "born again rant." Does it remind you of someone who just found a new crutch, with an almost religious fervor?

Witness the next example of the true power of these meds, they make everybody an EXPERT SPOKESPERSON!

Just look at this, and remember the phrase "true believer":

>especially with Straterra..It builds and takes awhile >to reach peak, so when you stop you are basically >starting all over agin, plus what can be accomplished >in the summer or vacations when their ADD is running >rampant because you took them off their meds...I hate >drugs and am glad for Straterra, it has worked for me >all the stimulants did was keep me up and INCREASED >my ADD, which can happen..rethink taking them off the >meds for vacations!!!!![/B][/QUOTE]

Better yet, "used car salesman."
Plus, folks! REMEMBER that straterra is STILL UNDER PATENT, and the drug company makes insane amounts of money that they just don't make with Ritalin anymore,
so it MUST be better!

(Chemical companies do this a lot, as DuPont did with the Freon in your air conditioners. Once their exclusive patent (for freon) ran out, and anybody was allowed to synthesize and sell it, they then revealed that it was possibly harmful to the ozone layer, allowing them to come up with a NEW freon, again under an exclusive patent, which was SO MUCH BETTER AND SAFER than the old freon, which they themselves lobbied to make illegal to produce. It's just a dirty business trick.)

Straterra is just the new freon.

ADD is a business creation, at best an excuse for bad behavior in a new non-punishment world, don't let the doctors push this on your family.

Their next step is going to be to coerce you to keep your kids doped all summer, maybe even making you legally responsible for keeping up the medication.

You will soon be labeled a negligent or abusive parent if you don't follow their instructions, and keep the medication up (but as long as you keep buying it, they might leave your family alone.)

I'm sure many of you are getting this pressure already.
Please bow to it.
Let them tell you how to parent, while you're at it.

------------------
SKEPTIKALLY---
there's no such thing

[This message has been edited by skeptikally (edited 07-25-2003).]

more updates please, 7 year old on straterra for three days now and I am still confused on the a.m. or p.m. dosage.

Mommtothree,

I've been giving my son the Strattera around 10:00 a.m. this summer, along with his 10 mg of Ritalin, Zyrtec for his allergies, and his multivitamin (poor kid). The only time he had severe sleepiness was the first week and a half that he started on Strattera. After the initial sleepiness subsided, he went to bed nightly between 9:00-10:00, until school ended. He has been going to sleep nightly by 10:30 all summer, and many nights before that--bedtime while he was on Concerta was between 11-1 a.m. (It was awful!). If we keep him on Strattera when school resumes, he will take it around 7:00 a.m.

Thanks for that info about how your son is doing... We have backed his strattera up till baout 4pm and he is doing really well, most of all he feels well, he is doing well on playdates and has been invited to another three this week alone.....

He did fall asleep earlier then usual last night on the couch but after swimming all day that could have been it too... I am continuing to back it up about 2 hours a day which should put us about 8am...It will be earlier when school starts.... Keep me posted on hoe you guys are doing....

I have been trying to find a place for info on Starttera, ADHD, etc. and was so relieved/hopeful to find so many people with similar situations. My 10 yr old son just started Strattera 25mg yesterday. He will take that for 4 days and then go to 40 mg. He weighs 80 lbs and has been on a medication holiday for the summer. First off let me say that medication was our last choice and I am still not 100% comfortable with it. My son attended public school for 2 1/2 yrs was homeschooled for 1 1/2 yrs and now goes to a private school for kids with LD's. We had him evaluated over a yr ago and he was diagnosed as ADHD, LD's, & Sensory Integration Disorder. We decided after much consideration to try med's. We tried Adderall, Concerta and then went to Methyphenidate throughout the school year. He did very well academically but still struggled/struggles with social issues. We have worked with a Behavioral Specialist over the summer and knew that in order for him to have a better year we needed to consider a different med. I had/have so many questions re: Strattera. We are giving it to him in the morning beacuse we felt like the 1st 10 hrs he would be on it full strength and wanted to be able to see how it was effecting him and also for him to be able to have the best benefits of it during the day when he needs it most. I am not sure that is the "right" way but I thought that was how we should intitially try it. He has been pretty sleepy/irritable in the 1st few hrs of taking it and probably a little more relaxed during the day. He eats well and had no problem getting to sleep.
I have not seen any huge improvements yet but from what most of your posts indicate it takes some time to get into their systems and see the full effects. Also, do you think it matters about am or pm dosing? The sleepiness and irritability is a concern and I am hoping that it passes when his body gets used to it. I am so glas that this forum exists and am looking forward to all that everyone has to contribute. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

Hi and welcome.. We will start week four tomorrow and so far so good... Our Son,(9), is doing very well on it.. He actually told me today that he likes the way he is now and does not feel so "frazzled" all the time. That is a direct quote.. he is having some belly aches but if I ate what he did my belly would hurt too... He is sleeping fine and we have moved the med to the morning w/o any incidents.. I have noticed a trmenedous improvement with social graces and that was a real problem last summer when he had no playmates because of the way he acted to them. He is now called ona nd welcomed at others kid's houses.. That to me was so rewarding that I wanted to just cry... It breaks your heart to not have your kid liked.....

I too, was not comfortable with meds but our son, his LCSW, his pediatrician and my husband and I agreed to let him try meds. I am glad we did, he seems happier too. Good luck and stick around and let us know how your doing...

hello
My son is now close to two months. We are struggling w/ the AM PM thing we went to bedtime about three weeks ago and noticed that it seemed to be wearing off late afternoon. Just two days ago we tried morning again and he was out most of the morning. We are loking at going 20mg am 20 pm. Our pshycologist recommended going up to 60 and perhaps it wouldn't wear off problem is my son has experienced clearring his throat tic w/ strattera? Anyone had this problem? He had very bad tics w/ concerta nad they subsided almost over night switching to strattera but he has the clearing of the throat now some days none other days horrible bad so pschy said because of this we should not raise dose but try twice a day. Bad thing about twice a day it's a struggle for him to remember once a day.

Hi, I am new to the board my two sons ages 8 and 11 just started the new medication Strattera my oldest son has been on all the medications for ADD Aderrall XR work really good for him but he was losing to much weight when I heard of this new medication for ADD I asked for him to try it. My youngest son was diagonied with a learning disability and is now in the 2nd grade but still can't read he is taking speech and OC his doctor believes they missed the ball with his diadosis 3 years ago. They believe he is ADD with out the H. My oldest is ADHD. They are on their 4th day and neither one of them are sick today YEA!!!!!!! It was a tought three days for the 8 year old he threw up 2 hours after meds in the morning, My 11 year old complained of stomich aches and 3rd day severea headache and neck problems. Today on the 4th day both boys are playing well with each other and not to impulsive. My 8 year old is following directions and doesn't seem to be daydreaming, he's paying really good attention. School starts at the end of the the 3 weeks of meds. I hope to see improvement for him their as well. My 11 year old is paying better attention and is playing with children his age and older today. I haven't had any crying and fitt throughing today it has been great. They were started at 18mg for 4 days and will be moving up to 25mg tomorrow. Both of my boys are 51lbs and 53lbs. We give them there's in the Am. They were sleepy at first. But,now they are fine. They go to bed at 8:30 and sleep untill 6:00AM. I hope when they go up on dose tomorrow all is still good. My stomich on the other hand is in notts. Well, I'm praying for you guys keep us in your prays as well.

Blessed Mom of Three

Well, we are now on day 5 and things are still going great knowone is sick but, it doesn't seem to be working like it was. Dose is now 25mg. I don't really want to take the dose up more. They are a little cracky today, mostly the 8 year old, 11 year old is still calm but, very defient. That could be normal for boys though. Anyone experance the same?

Blessed Mom of Three

My experience is day five is too early to judge give it some time. You really need four weeks to really get a good grasp i think. My son is two months now and we are still adjusting dose and time of day. We are going to twice a day 20mg am and 20 pm to see how that works.

hope you all the luck and hope it works

We are into week five here and our son is doing just wonderful... We take the medicine mid-morning and will continue to fine tune it so that he will take it b4 school but he is just adapting so well. He is eating like a horse, sleeping and we went to a BBQ yesterday with 9 other kids and our son actually told us last night that he had the best time ever.. This to me is a big deal!!! He usually ends up by himself not playing at all... He was in the middle of the games and pool all day.. It was a blessing to see....

Hang in there, you need at the very least three weeks to see how the body accepts the strattera...

Firebug,

I just reread your post about the clearing the throat tic.... How old is your son? Ar eyou sure that it is a tic? At the BBQ yesterday one of the 11 1/2 year old boys kept doing that too, I asked his Mom if he was sick (she is a good friend) she told me he just picked it up and thought it was cool... he also kept spitting... Maybe what your son is doing is just Boy behavior.....just a thought... Keep us posted ok???

Today is day #6 for my son, 10yr and he is doing pretty good. He has not had any stomach problems. He takes the medicine in the morning on a full stomach. He was sleepy and a little irritable the first few days but that seems to lessen each day as his body adjusts. He ahs a good appetite and has no problems getting to sleep at night. He is not teasing as much and looks me in the eye when I speak to him and also responds quickly when I call. I am seeing some silly/hyper behavior in the evening that is manageable http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif I am hopeful that this may help him to have peace and be able to function better. 2 more weeks until school starts here so I am hoping that we will have a good idea on whether this is going to work or not. I have a question...under our health insurance plan we have no coverage for mental/nervous this includes presriptions. We paid around $30 for the Methylphenidate but think the Strattera is around $145 a month. Does anyone no how to get this for cheaper? Possibly on-line, prescription discount card, etc. We get most of our prescriptions filled at Hy-Vee. Is there a better place.

Well, week 5 here & I see nothing! I'm very frustrated & getting nervous about school starting back up. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/confused.gif

I am sorry Kris that your not having any luck witht he strattera, what is your doctor saying?????

Keep us posted and I care....

Checking in again....

things are doing just ducky here... switched to the morning with no problem at all... we did it very slowly... No stomachaches at all anymore... Things are defintly looking up... He is being called more for repeat social time at other kid's houses too... We are very happy for him and us.... http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

My son has been on the Strattera going on day 5 tomorrow. Started on the 18mg. and tomorrow will start 25 mg. Has had an immediate effect of unbelievable non stop talking. Uncontrollable. Also very angry, difficult, sarcastic and argumentative. He is 8. He had been on the concerta for 2 weeks and that had an immediate effect of through the roof hyperactivity. He has also been diagnosed with OC and Sensory Integration Dysfunction.I Am wondering if we are treating the wrong thing and the ADHD is not the primary problem we should be medicating for. I want to stop the Strattera tomorrow before the new dose but I am feeling torn, don't want to mess up the chance of it kicking in. Very stressful. Have spent the last 4 days trying to keep my sanity, while he is constantly talking up a storm not letting anyone else get a word in. Has definitely increased his OC behaviors also. Anyone with multi diagnosis like these?
Thanks in advance.

Hi everyone - I'm new here. I have a question about the Strattera. Bear with me - I feel I need to give some background info, so it will take a while to get to the question! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif My 9 year old daughter was diagnosed with ADHD,Inattentive after severe academic issues last year (3rd grade), and started it 2 weeks ago, and is now on 40 mg. She is 68 pounds. I noticed the fatigue and stomach problems the first couple of days. The fatigue seemed to go away after a few days, and once she started taking the med. with breakfast, the stomach issues have gone away.

She is now vacationing with some old friends at the beach. I received a call this morning from her friend's mom asking if they can skip the pill this am because my daughter "doesn't seem herself." She doesn't seem to want to do anything, and seems to get a second wind (so to speak) at around 7 at night. Now I didn't noticed anything unusual these past couple of weeks. She has laid around a lot, but it is summer and she hasn't been in camp. To me, she acted the same before the med. My friends'daughter is on Adderall. Could the 7 pm issue be an unconcious bias on their part due to the 12 hour potency of the Adderall? I was under the impression that Strattera didn't have an "out of system" rush because it lasted 24 hours, but several of you have reported differently. Also, could it be a hormonal thing with puberty? In reading several posts I've noticed people concerned about mood swings, etc. My daughter may be 9, but she is already starting to develop. I remember being an absolute basket case when I was going through puberty.

I'd appreciate any feedback. Thanks!

Twinmom,

If the ADHD meds are having the opposite effects they are supposed to, I'm wondering if your child really has ADHD or if the other disorders (especially OC) are causing similar behaviors. Often, obsessive/compulsive behaviors can cause distractibility, etc., due to their all-consuming nature. The medications used to treat the two disorders are different, and ADHD medicine would not help OCD.

Mommtothree,

I spoke to a pharmacist today about the male side effects, and told him what men had been saying on this healthpost. I asked him what he thought about having an 11 year old boy on it, since there are no long term studies yet. He seemed pretty okay with it, but when I asked him directly what he would do if his 11 year old son were on it, he said that he'd feel okay if he were on it for 1-2 years, but didn't think he'd want him on it for the long haul (most of his teen years). That's just one pharmacist's personal opinion, but it is food for thought...............

LLK3, we are in week 3 currently with my son who is 7. He is 80 lbs. and is at 40 mg. I have noticed periods of time where he isn't himself, seeming very indifferent and not very playful, even with company. It usually lasts about 2 hours and by early evening he is more "himself".Actually it did seem more previlant in week 2. Our doctor said that 6 weeks is a fair amount of time to judge the effects of the medication, and the behavior I described is not every day and I can't figure out the pattern to it if any. One thing that I have noticed that I don't like is the total lack of appetite and constipation, which will be discussed on the next doctor's visit. Please update me on her progress as there might be some similarities in their reaction to the medication. Thanks!

I have not looked at these boards for awhile - glad you started this thread! Our son has been on Straterra since May and has done well. We started out with 18 mg in the morning and then added 18 at night. We have had a lot of the same positive comments from our son - he is 6. When the doctor asked him if he liked the med he very enthusiastically said yes because he didn't get in trouble so much! I have added a mid day dose of 18 mg because he seemed to be returning to the old impulsive forgetful behaviors. We adopted him when he was four and he was on Adderall but we took him off immediately and didn't try anything other meds until we started Starterra this summer so this is my first experience with meds. It seems to me like he keeps getting used to the dosage and we have to increase it. Those of you who have experience with other meds - is this normal? He weighs 60 pounds and is currently taking 54 mgs a day and we will probably switch him to 30 in the a.m. and 30 in the p.m. when we run out of this prescription. I too am concerned about the issues I have read regarding older males and sexual side effects. Sorry this is so rambling - maybe I need some meds too!

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this board but am very interested in participating. I have 2 boys who are ADHD. My oldest is 14 and after battling with myself over him being medicated I finally took the plunge when he entered 2nd grade and his teacher told me that no matter what I decided that she would modify and work with my son to help him the most. I had never had anyone say to me that it was ok to NOT medicate. Since then, he has tried Ritalin, Adderal, Concerta, and now finally Straterra. We started it the first week of summer so that it would have time to work for him before school starts. My other son who is 11 was diagnosed in 1st grade as he was demonstrating some of the symtoms my oldest had displayed. He too started Straterra the first week of summer. Both we extremely tired the first week or two. They have grown out of that and it seems to be working out great for them both. No school experience yet. I am very anxious about it. My youngest is a high achiever who makes straight A's and my oldest who was diagnosed later seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle somewhere and struggles with his school work. Unmotivated. Both very disorganized. I worry about my youngest because he doesn't have any true friends and tends to get teased to the point of anger. Any suggestions on how to create friendships for him. He can not come up with anyone who he thinks would come over and play. Also, when a child is unmotivated to do school work, what do you do? I know he is smart, but he thinks he CAN'T get good grades. Thanks for listening.

------------------
Karin

Originally posted by T-bone-Mama:
My son who just turned 9 was on Strattera for two months (Feb.-March) His behavior took a drastic change for the worse. He became paranoid to the point of being terrified of going to school because he thought bombs were going to blow the building up. He could not function in the classroom - he would hide in the closet, lay down under his desk, and constantly call out. He was in the Principal's office every day, and did not even understand why. It took several weeks for the drug to get out of his system, and it was during this time that he was re-evaluated by the child study team and diagnosed with Pervasive Development Disorder NOS with a recommendation for full-time special ed in a class for kids with behavior disorders. The ONLY time my son had such severe symptoms of PDD was while he was on Strattera; he is otherwise a pretty normal ADHD kid with some outstanding qualities along with his idiosyncrosies. He is now on Ritalin (15 mg. in the morning and 10mg. at lunch time), and is doing very well. For him, Strattera was literally a nightmare.

[This message has been edited by T-bone-Mama (edited 07-02-2003).]Hi my experience was almost the same had my son on adderrallxr20mg for 1 week.He was having nightmares.Wouldnt eat he was very moody.I stopped his med 1 week ago.He can eat anything and it dont hurt his stomach he 10 and weighs 52lbs. Kathy

Originally posted by skeptikally:
I've been reading the posts on this topic, and to be completely honest, I'm scared and disgusted by the general theme.

You're all making your kids sick with these drugs, I'm reading of stomach problems, sleep problems, weight loss, mood swings, etc...

Worse than that, you're making them feel that something is wrong with them in your eyes, no matter how much you try to sugar-coat it. They will see the truth.

How do you justify to your children what you're doing to them?

How do you explain it to them?

Do you care in the least how they feel about being socially stigmatized as flawed..., or only how their teachers and counselors feel about their "behavior problems?"

Why don't you just give your kids the love and attention they desire and desperately need, instead of making drug experiments out of them?

I wonder are the schools and health care officials FORCING you to harm your children in this way?

I'm sorry if I am upset about this topic. I was labelled ADD when I was about nine years old, and fought with the system for several years. I'm almost 30 now, and a father myself. I still have symptoms, and have never attempted to wash them away with medication.

Listen to me carefully now, I still hold a sizeable measure of enmity for both of my parents for the ordeal they put me through, and I've never fully been able to trust them again. They let the schools and psychologists intimidate them, when they knew it was the wrong thing to do, and tried to force me to take medication for ADD. I may have been hyper, or innatentive as a child, but I always held love and trust in my family.. until they broke it.

You don't know how alone a child feels when his parents turn against him.

It's far worse than any petty behavior problem.

My parents didn't see this.

Now they sit alone in their empty nest and wonder why I don't visit as often, or bring their granddaughter around as much as they would like. They still don't understand, after 20 years.

After all, they were only trying to help, right?

Is this how you want your kids to see you?

Please reconsider what you're doing to your kids, I know you're all posting here because you are somewhat troubled with guilt in the first place. I understand that you are all unsure if you're doing the right thing, ethically.

In this case guilt and uncertainty is justifiable.

There are more important things in the world than fitting into a school like a puzzle piece, or being the model perfect child.

Love your children for who they are, not for who society says they should be.
Hi I am amom who has to agree with you 100percent let kids be kids.Iwd trade amillion dollars for my childhood and I hate to think I took my sons away from him

Has anyone heard of a child suffering from palpitations/anxiety on Straterra?

My 10 year old son did pretty well on Adderall, except for some trouble sleeping and brief episodes of anger, but we decided to give Straterra a try. Well, for the first week, things seemed great. He was sleeping well, eating good, no anger, etc. But beginning the first day of the step-up from 25 to 40 mg he complained of severe nausea and a racing heart.

The doctor had him step back to 25 mg and things were fine for about two weeks... then the palpitations/anxiety began (one week ago). Unless you have experienced it, you have no idea how heartwrenching it is to see your child have a panic attack...

Anyway, after several doctor appointments (including an emergency room visit), he has been taken off of Straterra (one doctor said she would never prescribe it again after all the side effects she's seen), yet the anxiety is continuing - but improving some.

We've been told that it can take up to a month for the effects of Straterra to leave the body. In any event, he is off that stuff for good. We pray this anxiety is gone soon.

Now, the doctor recommends that he go on a low dosage of Cylert (one of the oldest ADD meds out there).

Has anyone else known others to experience racing/pounding heart? Anxiety? on Straterra. If so, how long did it take for those side affects to go away?

Thanks,
Concerned Dad

Beckstar, things seem quite normal here now. She hasn't had any issues with lethargy or mood swings since she has been back - however has been reading a lot (finishing up Harry Potter #5). So far I haven't seen any issues crop up. She hasn't been constipated either. We just have to make sure she takes the medication with food. I will watch her though. But so far, so good.

She starts school next week, so that will be the real test. I'll let you know of any updates.

Greetings from another stressed and loving parent of a child with ADHD. My son, 6 and 46 pounds, has been on Adderall XR since Feb. He was also taking 0.1 mg of Clonidine at night to help him sleep, as well as a quarter of a 0.1 tablet in the morning with his Adderall to help control his nerves. We have just switched doctors as we have relocated, and this doctor has just started him on Stratera 18mg. One of the primary reasons for the change was do to the tics my son was having. EX: humming--a sound that sounds like a dog whining, and sticking out his tounge and blowing. He could barely get through a sentence without doing this--it never stopped. His low weight was also and issue.

Today was day one on Stratera, and it was hell. I am finding some comfort in reading what others have to say. If I could make a suggestion about the time of giving meds---when my son was on Adderall, we would wake him up in the very early morning, 5:30-6, and give it to him. We would then get him up at about 7 to get ready for school. I realize that Adderall is a stimulant, but it was something that really seemed to work for us. I guess I can see where it may increase the need to sleep while on Stratera.

I was so excited tonight, however. My son ate a hamburger AND a hot dog--and his greenbeans and potatoes--along with 3 glasses of milk. That makes me jump for joy!! He is never a big eater anyway--we would always supplement his meals, but that just made the worst of the day fade away.

I look forward to reading more--is there anyone out there with a younger child on this med? I would love to read more. . .

We are having major straterra side effects problems.We are in week four and my son has lost his appetite completely. Along with that, he is constipated and we actually had to give him an enema tonight. At his last doctor's visit, it was suggested to try for two more weeks. So far, I am not noticing a major change in his behavior, or at least nothing that is worth all of the problems with eating and constipation. I feel like by week four if this would be a side effect that would pass, it would have. Any advice from anyone?

Hey mommtothree
I've been on vacation. Thanks for the reply. I have talked to both docs about my sons clearing of the throat and have been doing alot of reading. Unfortunately my hunch may be right I think he has a mild terets w/ his ADHD which as you probably know is not uncommon. We may have a nueroligist take a look to get him diagnosed if the tics persist.

Anyway so far so good on the dual dose of srattera. We are now doing 25mg in the morning and 18 at bed time. We started this in reverse because of sleepyness but that has seemed to subside so we switched to give him more for the course of the day. Now that school has started will be the true test. I am excited to see how he does.

kscath

Couple things I found it interesting when you said that your child now looks you in the eye when you talk. Once I read that I realized that mine has done this too that was pleasing that you made me realise that. As far as cost of meds my insurance covers Strattera other than co-pays but talk to your doctor they have tons of samples of this stuff because Lilly is promoting it so much. Our pediatrician is very good at giving us samples.

My daughter is 7 and has just been diagnosed with adhd. Stratera is the first med we are trying, quite honestly, I am a bit concerned after reading your comments. We were told to try this one because it did not have a stimulant and it is new. She did a starter pack of 18 and is now on a target dose of 25. She does seem sleepy and has complained of a headache. She has been on it for 6 days. Her affect seems to be flat. She was diagnosed with mild adhd and so I was wondering if she should try a low dose of concerta instead of this new drug. I would appreciate others comments

My son was on Concerta 27 mg at 70 lbs. It enabled him to do extremely well in school and he didn't seemed very "drugged" by the medicine. I did not like the side effects of when the medicine wears off, it wears off with a crash!!! It made him very irritable and cried easily (not usually a crier,0but this medicine did make him cry and be frustrated very easily in the evening as it wore off. Therefore, I am now trying Strattera. Doc started us on 25mg. and wanted us to go to 40 mg. after 7 days. My son has had horrible side effects with this that I don't have the heart to give him the full 40 mg. (we are on 3rd wee). I empty out almost 1/2 of the powder in the capsule and then give him (so about back to 25mg). I hate the way this drug is effecting him. He seems very "drugged" I think that is terrible and can't stand to think of meC'changing" him so much w/ chemicals. He gets VERY tired and doesn't want to do anything. He doesn't feel well, and looks very sad while on this medicine. When he comes off this medicine, watch out, he comes off with a BANG . He is wild and hard to manage! Also doesn't eat while on it and that was suppose to be one of the benefits of strattera, would effect appetite. I am going to decide to switch him back to concerta I think or does anyone now if Adderall is better. I am looking for him to be focused in school and more manageable at home but not Look and act DRUGGED. I don't think any parent should want a good child by doing it to such an extreme. Concerta seemed better. looking for input on Adderall. thanks!

I don't see the reasoning behind giving Strattera at night. Yes, I know it makes the kids sleepy and out of it (that's what I hate about it). But I find it wears off after about 5 hours, so when your child wakes up, hasn't the night before's dose wore off and you are w/ a child w/ no meds in them? In my other post I stated that I felt Strattera takes an active child and within an hour sedates him to a "drugged" state ie: sleepy, lifeless, not hungry, not wanting to play etc... I can't handle watching this. This is about our 3rd week and I am thinking of going back to Concerta, although I hated the mood extremes after concerta wore off! (homework time) If I am going to switch back, I want to quickly make this decision, but keep reading people's posts saying it may take awhile for body to get use to this med. but it HAS been 3 weeks and I haven't had the heart to go to the 40 mgs. where the doc says he needs to be HELP!!!

kiu19,

My son, 6, was on Adderall for 6 months. I loved the way it took a hold of my son's impulsivity. It did, however, come with consequenses. He ended up having to take another drug, (clonodine) to help him sleep at night. So, I felt like a terrible mother, giving my kid an upper and a downer, but the results with his friends and with classwork were phenominal!! He was so happy--and he actually thanked me for helping him to sit still!! THEN, just when we thought we had a handle on it, he began audible tics. Clearing throat, humming, sticking out his tounge and blowing, etc. We could not escape the tics. NOW, we are on Strattera, trying to eleminate the stimulant which can cause the tics. Plus, he had lost some weight--and he didn't have much to spare, anyway. Now, only after 4 days of med--his appetite has doubled. I still don't see any of his impulsivity being corrected--or his hyperactivity--so this has been a tough week. Let me know how things keep going with you.

Dear Mommtothree

You had mentioned some time ago that your son was having stomach aches on the Strattera..my daughters neurologist told me that it was one of the common side effects of this drug. He also said that eating peanut butter seemed to help alot of these kids with stomach aches. Just thought I would pass that along.
Hopefully all is well.

As an adult with ADD, I've been reading these posts with interest. As a parent, I really empathize with many of the concerns expressed here, reflecting the personal struggles many have expressed re: giving your kids meds with hope of helping their problems, only to find that it creates new problems.

All I can say is that in hindsight (I'm in my late 40s) I wish my parents, teachers, and physicians had the knowledge of ADD that we have today. I know that I would have benedfitted greatly from meds. Despite some great successes in life, there were many, many difficulties along the way - socially, academically, and later on in employment. Not picking up on social cures. Blurting out impulsive, and sometimes inappropriate remarks. And especially not being able to harness an amazing creative, knowledgable mind. Thoughts would ricochet around my mind - many interesting connections and insights, but so very hard to organize into a cohesive paper as a student. Being on Strattera has helped me in so many areas. Those who haven't experienced this disease - and I do consider it a disease - simply do not understand.

The one concern I do have is that Strattera, as I understand, was developed and tested by Lilly specifically as a drug for ADULT ADD. I'm concerned that its being tried in children now is driven more by the desire to find a non-stimulant, non-controlled alternative medication for kids. It simply may not be as effective in kids as adults.

Also, for those who are considering Strattera or other medications, and are feeling scared by the information contained in these posts - please remember that this is a self-selecting group of people. If there's a thread going here, its much more likely to elicit responses from people who have a negative experience rather than a positive one.

These drugs (and my own experience with Strattera) are certainly not perfect. I've had my own problems which I've shared on Jackos "Male Side Effect" thread. Yet I truly believe that you brave parents are doing the right thing in exploring these options. Don't continue a drug if nasty side effects persist. Seek help from knowledgable practicioners. Good Luck! I know I would have accomplished a lot more if I had been offered the help that's out there for your kids when I was their age.

I read on Crillmom's post that her son got very emotional on Straterra. That's what I'm curious about. My son just started taking Straterra (changed to this from Concerta, because I was concerned with his weight loss and him being so skinny). He is 9 years old and just started school. Since he changed over, he has been very emotional. He cries every morning and the school is working with us about this. I'm just worried that the other kids are going to call him a cry baby and make it hard for him to make friends which it is already hard for him to make friends anyway. I guess I'm hoping that this will eventually go away and he'll be happy again. It's tough dealing with him crying when it makes me very emotional as his mother to see him go through this. It's just all frustrating and I hope it's worth it. I just hate seeing him go thru this and I wonder if it really is worth it. I'd rather deal with a child who is moody than crying...I guess because I'm so use to his moodiness so I'm easier equipped to handle it. Anyone else going thru this?

I read on Crillmom's post that her son got very emotional on Straterra. That's what I'm curious about. My son just started taking Straterra (changed to this from Concerta, because I was concerned with his weight loss and him being so skinny). He is 9 years old and just started school. Since he changed over, he has been very emotional. He cries every morning and the school is working with us about this. I'm just worried that the other kids are going to call him a cry baby and make it hard for him to make friends which it is already hard for him to make friends anyway. I guess I'm hoping that this will eventually go away and he'll be happy again. It's tough dealing with him crying when it makes me very emotional as his mother to see him go through this. It's just all frustrating and I hope it's worth it. I just hate seeing him go thru this and I wonder if it really is worth it. I'd rather deal with a child who is moody than crying...I guess because I'm so use to his moodiness so I'm easier equipped to handle it. Anyone else going thru this?

hi there I just want to let you know that after thr 4th week on straterra my son stopped being emotional that side effect did go away, but I never really felt comfortable with this med. It was way too inconsistent . Some days great some days not so great. Towards the end it made my son more hyper and more impulsive then before meds. I had him on straterra for 10 weeks. Right noe he is only taking vitamins and supplements so far so good but I am nort sure what I will do for school

Hello everyone I am new to this post and like most of you my 10 year old son was diagnosed with A.D.H.D. 3 years ago. His teachers brought it to my attention that I should have him checked out and maybe put on something like Ritalin. I did have him checked out and he was diagnosed. The doctor put him on Ritalin 3 times a day 10 mg each time. This did not seem to help him so the doctor would take him off the med. It seemed to go this way on and off every 9 weeks of school for the past 3 years . I decided to go to another Dr and the Dr is now putting him on Strattera 25 mgs a day for the first 3 days then he goes to 40 mgs thereafter I am hoping this works I know the Drs have not misdiagnosed him because I see it at home also. Hard to get him to clean his room.. takes forever and normally I get so agravated I wind up doing it myself or at least helping him do it. As with all parents posting here I would much rather see my child without the meds also but if there is a medication out there that does help him concentrate.. and stay focused and not act out on impulse I would like to see him that way.. I have 4 children and as best as I can tell he is my only A.D.H.D. child. He does have problems with keeping friends aswell.. and just hopefully this Dr and strattera will help him in a way the last Dr and Ritalin didnt. This doctor seems more apt to try him for a longer period of time rather then his past Dr. who would try out take off try out take off never really got to see the full affect of weather medicine would acually benifit him. Hope everyone is doing great more so everyones children thanks for reading my post

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Trina Lynn Borens

I wanted to report on how my son is doing after starting school this week. He is almost seven and was adopted at the age of four. He came to us on Adderall but we took him off of it. We started Straterra in April and it has been very helpful. He is doing GREAT in school and is so mush more focused. I will say after reading lots of info and talking to lots of -people that Straterra works for some kids and works very well but it does not work for all. We have had NO side effects and have nothing negative to report about the Straterra. In fact, my son, who could never remember anything, asks to take this med because he likes being able to focus.

Annabel
Memphis, TN

Well, my son is a little bit older than everybody else's kids, so far, LOL... he's 15 and just recently started Strattera about a month ago, coming off Adderall. For us, Strattera is like a miracle. My son is actually doing his classwork, bringing home his homework and doing it, pleasant to be around, NOT moody or irritable, and still eats http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif For the first time in a long while he is making all A's and B's in school.

Now, on the other hand, I have a 7 y/o who was just put on Adderall this past Wednesday. I haven't gotten a report from her teacher yet, but when she's at home, the moodiness, crying at the drop of a hat, etc., are horrible. I can't stand it, and actually am ready to take her off it already and just see if there are underlying causes other than ADHD, which she wasn't even diagnosed with!!! Her pediatrician wants to try it and see if it helps her attention span at school. Oh, and my daughter also has learning disabilities and epilepsy. I think we need a specialist, but where to start?

Jennifer

Hello to all..I have a 10yr old boy,he weighs about 68lbs..he's been on straterra since 8/21/03 40mg given once in the morning 7am..this is his first med.he has been complaining of stomach aches,headaches & since school began 8/25/03,he has been falling asleep in class before noon..and by the time he comes home all he wants to do is sleep...are there any suggestions?

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FAITH IS WHAT TAKES A CHAMPION TO THE FINISH LINE!

Hello all kiu19, and 3 blessings,

I have shared all of your frustrations and wonderings but let me share with you how we are doing. Now for the broken record my son was on concerta and yes he got the tics and we switched to strattera. Horrible sleepyness, some sensitivety crying n all actually lost weight which is not supposed to happen from everyone you hear from they actually gain weight after switching from a stimulant all that stuff.

Now for some good news!!!
You must be patient, we started out at 18 mg went up to 40mg. we did the before bed thing because of the sleepyness, his tics have subsided but he does still have clearing of the throat but after about 12 to 14 weeks he has really come around!!!! We are currently doing 25mg in morning when he gets up and 18 at night before bed. Things are going very well the sleepyness has gone away, he is not real sensitive he may cry from time to time if you yell at him which is actually good because it reminds me that hey give him a break. He has been in school for two weeks and so far so good. His writing is the neatest I've ever seen! He is actually starting to gain weight. He is playing football and just the practices no games yet have been phenominal. KIU19 three weeks is just not enough time you really need to be patient it takes awhile to get this med into the system and stabilized. Strattera does seem to stay in the system longer also. I took Strattera myself and had great results from it unfortunately had to stop because of male sexual side effects but if you can weather the storm and get you child dialed in the benifits can be ten fold.

test

Originally posted by firebug31:
Hello all kiu19, and 3 blessings,

I have shared all of your frustrations and wonderings but let me share with you how we are doing. ...


firebug31:

Thanks for the post. It is helpful. I am 47 yo and on my 32nd day of strattera. I have had reasonabally small side effects. I have been taking 50MG for the past 16 days. Hope to go to 75MG in about another 13 days.

Your welcome Bill

Glad to hear the Strattera is working for you.

THANKS FOR THE POSTS FIREBUG & BILL...
BUT WHAT ADVICE CAN YOU GIVE ME ABOUT THE STOMACH ACHES?

SINCE SCHOOL HAS STARTED I AM FACING A DILEMMA, SHOULD I TELL MY SONS TEACHER ABOUT HIM HAVING ADD?
I'M AFRAID THAT THE SCHOOL WILL TRY TO LABEL HIM & PLACE HIM IN A SPECIAL CLASS...WHICH I KNOW THAT IS NOT WHAT HE NEEDS...
CAN ANYONE GIVE ME SOUND ADVICE,PLEASE!!!

How old is your son and what grade is he in? Did you just move to a new school and how was his ADD handled in his previous school and how was he doing with nobody knowing about it? It does not mean that he will be placed in a special ed class, instead they can accommodate him with things (i.e. reduced spelling words, untimed testing etc.). If he does not struggle at all, I would probably not say anything, but if he does, then I would get him all the help he can possibly have. It's in your son's best interest.

THANK-YOU SUSI FOR THE ADVICE...MY SON IS 10 AND HE'S IN THE 5TH GRADE..HE WAS DIAGNOSED WITH ADD THE END OF LAST SCHOOL YEAR AROUND 6/2003..HE HAS ALWAYS HAD PROBLEMS WITH SCHOOL AND AT HOME BUT IT WAS'NT UNTIL I HAD A SECOND DOCTOR'S OPPINION THAT I DECIDED TO GET HIM THE HELP THAT HE NEEDS AS FAR AS TUTORING,& SPENDING MORE TIME WITH HIM STUDYING,BUT HE WOULD NOT STAY FOCUSED..THE DR. SUGGESTED MEDS..IN THE VERY BEGINNING, BUT I FELT AT THE TIME I COULD HELP MY CHILD WITHOUT USING MEDS..BUT NO MATTER HOW PATIENT I WAS WITH HIM,I COULD NOT HOLD HIS ATTENTION FOR 5 MINUTES...HE HAS BEEN ON STRATERRA SINCE 8/21/2003 4OMG..TAKEN IN THE MORNING..I HAVE SEEN SOME CHANGE..HE'S A LITTLE MORE FOCSUED,ALTHOUGH HE STILL GETS FRUSTRATED VERY EASILY..BUT I GUESS HIS BODY IS STILL ADJUSTING..

Hi, everyone.

I've been reading the post on Strattera with great interest. I've ended up taking my 11 year old off Strattera after about 2-plus months. It seemed to control symptoms less and less well as time went on, and my son would have periods of being completely unreasonable--either crying or anger--in the mornings after taking the Strattera. They wouldn't occur every day, but frequently enough to be very disturbing. Also, he returned to having trouble sleeping and lost his appetite again; he's still only 60 pounds. His doctor said he's seeing several children with side effects to the Strattera, although he says it's still effective for about half of the kids who try it.

We've switched to Concerta. My son is currently on 18 mg and will be going up to 36 mg tomorrow. It seems better than the Strattera, and doesn't seem to be interfering with sleep and appetite as much as Adderall. Have others had experience with switching to Concerta?

Also, some of the social issues are still there. My son is getting better with other kids, but at lunch when he sat with kids--including one of his good friends--they moved away from him, most likely because there was one kid in the group who thinks my son is annoying, so he moved and the others followed him. It just kills me to think of him being abandoned like that. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

meckman

Hi everyone! I am new to this board but not new to ADHD. So a little intro, I will be coming back here often...

I have a newborn boy (hopefully no issues will arise there!) and a wonderful, talented 7 y/o boy, 2nd grade. Was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago, tried everything before meds. Started meds Jan '03 with Adderal, 10 mg 1x day at 645am. Crashed about noon. However, while meds were in system, his symptoms were much improved. (Crashing resulted in Emotional, crying, tantrums). Three weeks ago (Mid August '03) switched to 10 mg adderall XR. I think the dosage is too low...he is having major issues at school, ATTITUDE IS AWFUL!!! Is downright MEAN to me, smarts off and yells and blames me for things like his socks being all balled up after he took them off and then tried to put them back on. Pardon my french, but he is like hell on wheels now.

I spoke with his psychologist,...he reccommends we talk to the MD about Strattera. (not an uppoer, lower reported crash effects, no insomnia and greater appetite.) I have appt. with MD today. Wish me luck. I am going to share what the pscholo. recommended. Oh, and also my son also misses the social cues....loud, bossy, does not know how to make and keep friends, although we are constantly working on those skills with him....must be common in ADHD kiddos, and perhaps adults too, sometimes.

SO, my question.... did anyone experience any trouble switching? (Or maybe do we need to up the dosage a tad instead of switching?) I just want to be prepared emotionally MYSELF so I can help him handle the change. I guess I'm going to have to write off his behavior for about the 1st week or so until he gets used to it too? Poor kid. I hate it for him but I hope we can find something that helps him find success! So, any advice on what to expect with the switch? (Sorry for the short story but long....)

Carolyn

3blessings
Our situations are so much alike. My son was diagnosed same time at end school year. I asked the psychologist the same question you pose becuase I was afraid that if we advised his new teacher of ADHD she would then sterotype him. The psych concurred, he said give it about 4 to 6 weeks this way the teacher has an opportunity to get to know all of the personalities and we will get a better eval from her. He said hopefully it will go 4 to 6 weeks and she does not come to us! with problems. I do plan on setting up a conference mid to late SEptember since school started August 14th. I feel strongly with having the teacher a part of the theraphy because lets face it the teacher is our best tool to monitor meds and behavior because they spend more structured time with our kids than we do!

hope that helps

meckman,
We are in your situation with the straterra/concerta switch. I am sure that the Straterra works for some, I don't doubt it, but the ones that it doesn't work for seems to be extreme with the side effects and behavior issues and physically dangerous in my opinion. My son had a total loss of appetite, extreme weight loss and constipation. It only affected the ADHD by sedating him and the moods were unpredictable.I kept him on it for a month because most people were saying "don't give up the first week, you have to give it time". We have switched to 36 mg of Concerta, and so far it seems to be minimal on the physical side effects and I can see some slight positive changes already.
I can see from the message boards that Straterra is unpredictable on the physical aspects. Some even reported an increase in appetite. It is always helpful to keep up with each child and parent's progress.
Thanks everyone........

Meckman,

My son was on concerta and switched to Strattera, It takes several weeks for the body to adjust to strattera in his case. He has finally gotten over the sleepyness. If your son is experiencing his friends moving away from him you should be cognasant of tics that he may have started. My son started tics horribally bad with concerta. Many postings support that the concerta seems to bring them out. If he has any verbal tics this can be very irritating and would explain the friends moving away from him. If he has developed tics it's also important to know that no matter how hard he tries or how hard you try to stop them he can't do it other than stopping the med.

Lovemyboys

We did not have any problems switching meds from concerta to Strattera and made the switch virtually over night. I would cunsult with your doc on that though. The other thing to check with your child I am taking ADderal XR and it has been giving me dizzy sensation especially lying down and getting up. This sounds like a postural condition but upon stopping the med it went away. I am going to start it again only at 5 mg to see if I get the same side effect. I would be careful uping the dose and again bring these concerns to your doc.

Thank-you for your post firebug...It has been helpful,
I'm going to set a conference with his teacher to see how things will go..I did stop in his class at the end of the day and ask the teacher hoe he was doing,and she made my day..she said "I wish I had more students like your son he's so polite and helpful in the class...I'm thinking what she has the wrong child, but she called him out by name,and my son just loves her..maybe the teacher's personality plays a big part on our kids and how they maintain throughout the day...
although my son still complains about stomach aches..Is there anything special I did to give him?or will they go away after being on the meds for so long?
I want to thank everyone on this page for all the infomation that you all share,I'ts made this somewhat easier..THANK_YOU!!!

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FAITH IS WHAT TAKES A CHAMPION TO THE FINISH LINE!

3Blessings,

My doctor told me that Strattera taken with peanut butter seems to help with the stomach aches. My daughter eats a spoon of it with her pill. I know grose but it works. I told her also to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I'm actually glad she is eating the peanut butter, it's fatting! She is so skinny-all the other meds.

Also I was told to take the pill at night after a big meal. If it makes them tired, another side effect they will be in bed sooner! I thought I would pass along what my doctor suggested. So far so good for us. None of the big afternoon crash from all the other meds. She seems happy and finally acting close to her age.

Good Luck

My son is 10, he weighs 60 lbs and has been on Strattera for three months. We tried giving it to him in the morning but he'd fall asleep in school. Then we gave it to him at night and he wakes up at 3 am and can't go back to sleep. He started on the 40mg and his doctor backed it off to 18mg twice a day. I don't think he is concentrating any better than he did when he was taking Adderal.

My 7 yr old son started Straterra 6 weeks ago. At first everything was great and he talked to me like a would assume a normal child would. But for the last 4 weeks he cries every morning going to school and continues to cry on and off throughout the day. He has also developed some symptoms of what I would call OCD. He was on 40 mg and I thought the dose might be too much. His doctor put him back on 25mg. He is still crying, not as bad. Last week I got real upset and told him we were not taking it anymore. He did not take it the next day. When he got home he told me he wanted to take that medicine it made him feel like other kids and it had nothing to do with his crying, he just did not like school.

We are now on 25 mg and he still crys some but he is doing great on his work. The school and his teacher are working great with me. He is not hyper just attention problems so I do not have to deal with the behavior problems.

Does anyone else have these symptoms.

Firebug and beckstar, thanks for your thoughts. I'll keep an eyeout for tics. I have noticed my son picking at his lip a lot, but otherwise the Concerta is working a lot better for him than the Strattera, and he's sleeping and eating pretty well.

Beckstar, my son is only on 18 mg of Concerta. We tried for a day to do 36 mg (which was supposed to be the target dose), but he seemed drugged all day--*no* energy--and had trouble sleeping that night, so we dropped back to 18. The doctor was surprised such a low dose was effective, but said to stick with the lower dose.

Thanks,

meckman

Hello All,

I have been reading the posts here for about an hour, and I am scared to death. My seven year old was diagnosed ADD - Inattentive Type in May, and he also tested gifted. Since he was four, he has been unfocused, forgetful, slow-paced, and socially inept. His teachers say he doesn't pay attention, yet he always gets excellent academic marks. They say these behaviors will turn into habits which will catch up to him as courses get harder and lectures enter the picture. Though they don't suggest medication, I know they think something needs to be done to keep him from falling through the cracks.

I've already been called in to a conference this year, and I heard more of the same. I see the same behaviors at home, and I can't deny them any longer, yet I detest the ADD label. I'd like to know how much of these behaviors has to do with giftedness. Austin is not hyperactive or impulsive. His mind does go a mile a minute and he seems to be much more comfortable around adults than kids. We've had social problems almost identical to what meckman describes. We've tried rewards, incentives, punishments, charts, stickers, all kinds of things for two years now. None of them help to change his behavior permanantly and they barely work in the moment.

It's gotten to the point where it's hard to get him functioning at school and at home. I find that I have to either nag him constantly or do more things for him than I should. I can count on my four year old to get himself ready in the morning more than I can count on Austin. I have to think that the nagging and negative attention he receives has to be affecting his esteem level.

After talking to his teacher, I picked up a starter pack of Strattera from our pediatrician, and I've been staring at it for three days. The potential side effects scare me to death, and I hate the idea of drugging him so that he'll conform more easily into society. Yet I know he will continue to be isolated and even ostracized by society if he continues down this path.

Our pediatrician has told me that Strattera works best in kids who are only inattentive, not hyperactive or impulsive. Has this been any of your experiences? I want to do what is best for Austin, but I don't know what that is right!!! HELP!!

Hi, Austin's Mom,

We took my son in for testing while he was in first grade, too--about 7 years old. For what it's worth, his social skills have improved considerably over time, and, because he's so smart, he continues to work on them. When I give him suggestions on how to handle different social situations, he tries them out, and some of them really help. He's also very observant, and can see some of what works and doesn't work. Not that he's always able to keep from doing what doesn't work!

Your son sounds very bright, too, and if you can watch his social interactions and give him suggestions, he might be able to try them and also use his own observations to see some of what he's doing that's not working for him socially--especially as he gets older.

As for whether to try the Strattera, a couple of thoughts: first, it's not the only drug out there for ADD or ADHD, so it's hardly your only option (I'm sure you know that, but it helps to remember that when trying a new drug!) and second, you can stop it if it's not working. You can give yourself a time limit--say, a month--and if you don't like the results, you can stop it, with no long-term effect. The stimulant drugs (Adderall and Concerta) have worked better for my son, but each child responds differently.

One last thought: we tried a social skills workshop for my son when he was about 8 years old. It was good to see other families struggling with some of the same issues, and it was a chance for my son to focus exclusively on social skills. Is there any kind of social skills workshop in your area? If your son is seeing a psychiatrist, he or she should know.

Sorry to ramble on so!

Good luck,

meckman

Originally posted by skeptikally:
the meds make them become!


Their next step is going to be to coerce you to keep your kids doped all summer, maybe even making you legally responsible for keeping up the medication.

You will soon be labeled a negligent or abusive parent if you don't follow their instructions, and keep the medication up (but as long as you keep buying it, they might leave your family alone.)

[/B]

I am new hereand cant wait to start my son on straterra..we have tried MANY drugs with no help. I was totally against meds but after 4 1/2 years of an ongoing battle with my son I begged the docs to please put him on something. He has ADHD and ODD...Maybe YOU don't understand mister WHAT YOUR PARENTS went through. My son has broken 3 windows, 2 with his head, I can go on and on. But I dont OWE you an explaination. I want my son to have a normal life...No type of disapline has worked with him...Therefore if meds will help him not become a juvenile delinquent so be it. Who do you think you are coming on here and bashing parents?? You should thank God everyday that you do not have a child with ADHD/ODD. Do YOU know what it is like to not be able to bring your child anywhere because you never know from one minute to the next when he will freak out??? Where your whole life is a battle 24/7? OBVIOUSLY NOT! If you have issues with your parents take it up with them!

Hello, glad i found this sight. have a 10yr old, weighs 52lbs and is short, we have been on straterra
for about month and a half, at 25mg dosage. Just
recently have noticed that he is more moody and active
than before. Sound like you folks, think it is just one of the phases he will go through and it will get
better. His doctor is talking about up the dose. But i am so new at this not sure how to handle it. We will take any suggestions and help. thanks.

We had our son on strattera since July 3 till 2 weeks ago, He is add with a impulse control problem. The strattera worked fine until 1 month ago and then zilch. He even told us he could not concentrate and his school work showed it. He was moody, had headaches and continued to have stomachaches.
We finally pulled him off it and have started on a low dose of concerta. He came home yesterday and said he had a wonderful day and finally seemd to be able to concentrate on the oral test his teacher gave him.. (That is a direct quote from him) when furthered questioned by his Dad he said ; Usually during the oral exams, he finds himself missing the questions bu this time he listened really carefully.... ...hopefully we have found somthing to help him because he was miserable...

hi, i have a 7 year old daughter who is on stratterra 40 mg. she only weighs 37 pounds and she has lost 2 pounds since her last visit. she was on ritilan la but i was very hopeful when the straerra came out. now she is not only on the strattera but also on ritalin 10 mg after school. although the doctors is concerned because he thinks that it may be bi-polar and not adhd because of different thing that she does. i also have both adhd, ocd and bi-polar, so we will see how it goes. as for that guy who was trying to make us all feel bad about putting our chilren on medication. if for some reason i forget to give my daughter her meds in the morning she reminds me because she knows that the reason that she takes it is because it helps her listen better in school. she does not feel outcasted or that it makes her a bad person. maybe it helps that ihave to take meds in the morning also i don't know but i knowthat she doesn't feel bad so i don't either. if she wasn't on medicaiton then she wouldn't be doing well in school. and i wish that my parents would have realized that i had a problem when i was younger than maybe i would have done better in school. sorry to take so long to write but i had to get it off my chest.

We went off the beginning of October. Swtiched to concerta, he lost 5 pounds in 12 days. tried having nothing for two weeks and then 2 in school suspensions and constant trouble here at home with homework, chores, focusing on what he was doing, etc & etc. we have now gone back to strattera. They have upped his dose from 40 mgs for 4 days to 60 mgs for another four days then our target will be 80 mgs daily. At this point I am not sure what else to do. He is absolutely miserable stating he can not control his impulsives, can not concentrate and feels scrambeled. what is going on out there with your kids any successes? There has to be SOme!!!

How about we post how are kids are doing with it?

My son who is 9 will be starting on Saturday. 25mg for 4 days then 40 mg for the rest ...... He is 72 pounds and tall... I will start posting a diary of what is going on if others will do so too to help me.... Sound like a good idea?......

[This message has been edited by mommtothree (edited 07-01-2003).]


My son is 7, and just started on straterra yesterday. We go back in 2 wks. to discuse any negative reactions.

My daughter went through the straterra study. I kept telling myself she had to get better. Her mood swings are sooooo bad. She has never been on anything else. She is now off the study because it was approved duh. She is still on the med though. On 40mg. I just don't think it is doing her any good. I don't know what else to ask the doctor about. I am stumpped. All I know is that she is so moody, lies all the time, can't remember past her foot, isn't doing good in school and she yells at everyone all the time. I'm ready to pull out my hair.

IM 15 and been on it for umm heck i dunno for awhile now. And i cant tell if it helps or not. BUt ppl say it does or my mom at least. But sometime i forget to take it or i think i didnt but realy didnt. sometimes i get confused but hey. w/e I havnt had any side effects. But l8ly I have teret (sp) syndrom or "ticks" cause mines like realy like minor I just blink funny sometimes. Which is hell but l8ly ive been blinking again which i usually dont but i havnt been taking my med like i should which strateera i guees is for to i dunno im done now l8er all