Hi All,

I've been reading the latest posts you all have been writing. Yes, "Damned", it is a very addictive drug. Whoever posted that you don't think you are addicted only if you are stuck in the rut with it is so, so on the mark.

I was addicted for over 20 years. I "quit" a few months ago, only to relapse last month. Once again, I'm on the wagon, and feeling good about it.

There's one point that I want to make, and I'm repeating something somone had posted on the "old" board. Marijuana addicts stay the mental age they were when they started using. Do you all feel that way? I started when I was 18, and didn't feel like the 40ish age I am until I quit. Think hard about that. To all who have smoked and quit, look back. Didn't you get "stuck" at the age as when you first started?

As far as it being "natural", so is tobacco, even though the tobacco companies add addictive substances to keep us coming back for more. Being "natural" doesn't mean safe and non-addictive.

Good luck and continued soberness to all of us who have conquered, or are trying to conquer this monkey on our backs!

Glad your back on the wagon. I wish you much luck... I thank you for everything you have done for me. I feel great now. I am not craving pot much at all anymore. Thanks again, and good luck. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

I commend both of you! The fact that pot is not pysically addictive is what makes pot so dangerous. The pyschological addiction is intense, and because it is such a social drug, people are rarely thought to be addicts. How many pot interventions do you see on TV? I was talking to someone the other day who had been addicted to both for almost ten years, and was ten years clean. She said pot is the only substance (she had many addictions) that still made her salivate when she thought about it. You guys should be proud of yourselves

Wow, it's sooo funny that I KNOW soooo much about "addiction", yet b/c people DISAGREE, they tend to think that I DON'T know what I'm talking about. I can't figure why EVERYONE assumes I'm talking trash, or talkin' down to ya'll. I'm not. [We all know what they say about those who ASSUME? Well, I do know addiction, and I'm aware of what it is, but I am not using it as an excuse or a crutch. Well, I'm 25, and I don't and never have felt like the age I started it on. I do, however, look the same & haven't physically aged in over 8 yrs! Must be doin' somethin' right...like not dwelling on thing's like addiction, I just DEAL w/ it. I wish everyone would lose the bad attitude & accept the truth...quit tryin' to stary a riot. People disagree, yes, but to state your oppinions like facts, I feel, is not very helpful to anyone or supportive....but to each their own I guess. Lot'sa luck to ya'll.

Hey Damned32

Your intitled to your attitude and thoughts and we are intitled to ours. So let us say, parting is such sweet sorrow.....

Damned32 - we are here trying to help each other with our stories and accomplishments. If you think that we are 'dumb' because we talk about our problems and give each other strength to overcome our weaknesses then I suggest you leave. It sounds like you are a very strong woman, and I commend you for that, some of us are not that lucky. I am not sure why you are on this board, what you are addicted to or recovering from, but good luck in your travels. I hope I never hear from your bad attitude again. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Jester - I suggest you attend a few AA or NA meetings if you are serious about changing your addictive behavior, which is necessary to stay sober. If you did attend a few meetings - the message of "live and let live" just MIGHT sink in, as you would realize that we all have different beliefs and yes, sometimes, believe it or not, we disagree with what another addict has to say, but we listen to them and don't kick them out, - we let them state their piece, because it is part of the healing process for BOTH the speaker and the listener. I am disappointed that you take as a personal affront when someone states that a certain drug is not PHYSICALLY addictive and wondering if you'd kindly share where your head is at to become addicted psychologically!! I wonder that too - not because your disease is any less dehabilitating but because I , too, am an addict - Had to BEG to get into rehab because I was not PHYSiCALLY DEPENDENT on cocaine or alchohol!! I need to hear what people like dammned32 have to say because her experience, knowlege, strength and hope is just as important as the next guy/girl!! PS - don't think alchohol is physically addictive?? Ever seen someone with the DT's?? Or having a seizure 'cause they were trying to kick on their own? Peace.

victoria,that is a very true statement to me: i am the mental age of when i started smoking heavily. i was 17/18ish and now i am 30 and i have recently been trying to figure out what in my life happened that kept me stuck in my teens and i never really considered it was from onset of smoking.

Dear Bud,

I know what you mean! Since this epiphany, I can look at others and sometimes tell if they're potheads or not. When a 40ish person acts like a teen, it's almost a sure bet that they're stuck in that rut.

I'm STILL having cravings, and it's horrible. It was always my little "reward" for doing housework, the bills, etc. These are things that have no monetary value to a housewife like me. I kind of looked upon it as my "pay". But, I'm poking 40 with a real short stick, and I knew it was time to change. But, damn, it's hard to stay off of pot.

Are you trying to quit?

hey victoria,
i am 30 yo and i had been off marijuana for about 2years, however during that time i was involved in harder drugs. i got off them and was basically clean of all drugs for over 1 year, however i have gotten back into marijuana and have smoked heavily every day of the year 2000(since jan1) and i dont seem to be stopping here in 2001. however, i do recognize the irony of my life that in some ways marijuana is more damaging to ME than some other drugs. pot makes me anti social, and while i may feel alright on it, i tend not to do anything which includes not leaving my home sometimes for multiple days and having no motivation at times. i do suffer from migraine headaches and to some degree i am self medicating because the onset of headaches are almost 100% eliminated when i use pot daily. in some ways, pot keeps me away from the harder drugs i used to be into, but becoming antisocial becomes very isolating and is not the most mentally healthy thing to do. i am in a tough cycle because i recognize both the positives and negatives of its use, but i recognize that i need to be abstinent of all drugs, marijuana included, but pot is that warm blanket of mine so i am in a wierd dilemna.

Hey Bud,

I understand totally what you're saying. You feel deep down that it's "better" to be hooked on pot, rather than the harder stuff. It's a little "safer" for you, right? But, you're old enough to realize that if you NEED to use it, it's an addiction, no matter how we try to justify it.

I get migraines, too. I take Phrenelin Forte capsules for them. If I catch it at the beginning, it works well. When I smoked, and already had a migraine, it made it much WORSE. I'm also anti-social, but not because of the pot. I just get panic attacks when I go out.

Pot gave me to opposite reaction than most people get. I think it's because my brain chemistry is different. I used to smoke, and get VERY ambitious, outgoing, do some laundry, pay the bills, etc. It was a motivator, while it makes most people lethargic. I've always wondered that about myself - why that was. When I was in my 20s, in the workforce, I would go out to lunch, smoke a joint, come back (after using Visine, of course), and out-type everyone in the office. I became very focused and efficient.

I'm glad you are off of the hard stuff. I tried just about everything, but nothing grabbed my attention like the pot did.

Victoria:

I must have the same brain chemistry as you! As you said, it makes most people lethargic, while it is a motivator with me as well. I could be sitting around not wanting to do anything, smoke a little, and all of a sudden mowing the lawn is fun, washing the car is an adventure, working is no longer booring as it now has a new dimension.

This weekend is my cut off date, after Sunday I will be putting myself to the real test, again. I am hoping that I will get my motivation back after awhile and that my high energy is a part of me, that it was just being supressed as a result of my use, and would only come out again when using.

As far as the age thing goes, I agree. I also do not feel almost 40. I still see myself as a youngster, although I go through the motions of a responsible adult.

Anyway, I think you're right on and keep up the good work.

az_btech

I have heard the same said in AA about getting stuck at the mental age you began for both alchohol and drugs - I don't believe that theory is limited to just pot.

victoria, you said:
"I get migraines, too. I take Phrenelin Forte capsules for them. If I catch it at the beginning, it works well. When I smoked, and already had a migraine, it made it much WORSE. "

--that is exactly how it is with me, if i already have a migraine and i smoke, the headache gets worst, whereas if i smoke regularly i avoid the onset of the headache to begin with(or at least at a much lower frequency of occurence).

i attribute me being antisocial to a predisposition to it anyhow, but which the pot exacerbates the effects of that trait of mine. i can function alright when i go out socially, but i believe i choose to spend time alone and find something to do and be happy about.

i am not familiar with the kind of capsules that you mentioned. where can i find some more information. i havent taken much harder than ibuprofen when it comes to headache medicines. i am also looking for information on the effects of longterm marijuana use that is credible and informative and if there are negative effects then they are reported with evidence. do you know of any info.

Dear Bud,

The Phrenelin Forte capsules are a prescription drug. It's very similar to the migraine pill "Fiorcet". Fiorcet is butalbital, tylenol, and caffeine. The Phrenelin is butalbital and tylenol. The butalbital is a pain medicine, which helps the dilated blood vessels that happen with a migraine. You must get a doctor's prescription for them. I've been on them for 10 years for chronic migraines, but I limit myself to no more than 2 capsules per day - to avoid a big-time addiction to them.

I have read several things in books and on the internet about the long term effects of marijuana, but I don't know what's credible and not credible. It's all very conflicting. Very strong opinions pro and con. I remember reading something from Nadine Straussen (sp?), who had an article on the 'net, regarding the truth about the effects. She's president of something with civil rights - help me out, here people! The name of the organization escapes me.

Anyway, I would surf around for some information, consider the source of it, and take it as you will.

Good luck to you. Don't forget to ask about that migraine medicine.

Victoria

accurate,reliable info on longterm effects of pot is hard to come by. info is either from the pro pot lobby(ie Norml) where there is rarely any mention of any negative effects and if there are they are refuted. on the other side there is plenty of info which points out the negatives, but some of that can easily be refuted or is not supported.
there is little info from neutral sources who take a purely scientific approach which have credibility and which do research with no agenda and allow the chips to fall where they may.

((SMOKING ONE NOW)))....well what can I say.

(8=

Damned you should recheck your records cause you must be looking at studies from the 60's and 70's cause new studies do show and prove marijuana is physically addictive. I have smoked about an 1/8 a day for nine years and quit a week ago and contrary to what you think it is addictive. Myself as well as many others have your addictive symptoms. I am having hot and cold flashes which include sweating, stomach cramps, mood swings, anxiety, and insomnia. That sounds like an addiction to me not a habit. Try looking it up again youll be surprised to find your first notions are wrong and marijuana is physicaly and mentally addictive.

Marijuana is not physically addicting, the studies are proving that, I can also attest to it. Not going into the details. No, I don't think you stop growing emotionally when you start smoking it. Alot of the negative is hype, to scare the young kids, because, it may lead them to other drugs, and get them in trouble, send them down the wrong path etc... I'm sorry, I know alot of you will disagree, it in one of the herbs that is not physically addicting!! Bye for now Wendy

marijuana is not a drug, it is a complex natural mood enhancer. If you have had a drug addiction to a physically addicting drug, then you'd understand the difference. I don't crave for pot, yet i smoke everyday. When i don't have it, no big deal. Marijuana is not physically addicting, but just like sex, it can be mentally addicting, and that all depends on the person

Blaster:

I also am addicted to pot and am from Pittsburgh, now living in Phoenix. Congratulation on your desire to quit. I have smoked every day for 22 years, and have now been clean from pot for about 2 months, 10 days, and 20 hours. I had physical withdraws, such as night sweats, insomnia, vivid dreams about smoking, depression, lethargic, etc... Most of my physical symptoms are gone now, but I still think about it every day, and still occasionally dream about it. When I stopped smoking pot in the past, I would turn to drinking heavily. This time I've refrained from drinking except for a few times in social settings, never alone.

I just want to encourage your to continue on with your struggle, it will get better. Do not start drinking, it is far worse than smoking. I am not cured and it will be a long time before I stop thinking about it every day, if ever. You can do it if you really want to. This is the longest that I've remained sober, and the difference is that this time I really wanted to. There is also an organization called Marajuana Anonomous (MA) that may be of help to you. I can relate to your struggle and I know how hard it is. If you really want to, you can do it. Good luck in your quest.

Catch22

Originally posted by opiateman:
marijuana is not a drug, it is a complex natural mood enhancer.

That's hysterical - can I quote you?

Hello to all, I am sorry, but I cannot believe there are people out there that believe they are having serious physical withdrawals from pot! It is all in your head. It is only addicting in your mind! I should know, been smoking every day for almost 28 yrs. I have had a normal life so far, I have stopped smoking about 10 times in that period for jobs, pregnancies etc. I have never had any type of withdrawal. I also, don't do any other kind of drug, I am not a substance abuser per say. I only drink on social occasions, maybe 2-3 times a yr. I believe that the people with the true substance abuse problems are the ones who could possibly have these feelings. The mind does more to you physically than you think. If you research you will find, they have found that it is not physically addicting! Also, when I was in my late teens, I experimented with illegal drugs, never went any further. At this point, 42, I haven't done anything else in yrs. but friends of mine that are going NOWHERE, are still using drugs like coke, pot etc. If you are feeling these so called withdrawls, my opinion is, that there are more underlying problems in your life, that is why this is happening to you, and then you can't stay away from another substance. That is an emotional, behavioral, maybe chemical problems that you need to see a DR. about. My husband is a recovering substance abuser. He takes AD to help. He has been well for yrs. He never DETOXED on anything! Wake up, there is a disease called BINGING! Just my opinion, no offense, bye for now Wendy

starr - everyone has a right to their own opinions. Just some of us aren't as informed... It is called ignorance. Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it is not true.

ding - ding- ding!! Ready for round 2!!??

I'm sorry , I just get such a kick out of how we "battled" over this subject on this thread a few months back and it has now been resurrected! We all must be on the road to recovery because we certainly have a passionate attitude about our recovery!!

If you smoke pot every day - you don't "have a problem" you say? Just because a major jackpost hasn't hit yet? Hmmmmmmmm. It IS still illegal in the eyes of our illustrious government - and you certainly can get busted - THAT might cause some issues, as well as the fact that smoking-related conditions are now the number one killer of women in the US surpassing breast and ovarian cancer or do some of you pot-smokers really believe that pot is safer to smoke than cigarettes..... Great message to pass on to our daughters, too. I'll pass.

There sure are a lot of different opinions about pot here. I smoked every day for 27 years & stopped forever a year & a half ago. I had wanted & tried to stop for many many years but I never could stay away from it for long. I also played with coke & pills but stayed with pot after giving up the harder stuff.

I never had any physical withdrawal symptoms. In fact, I always felt great after stopping but I couldn't get used to being sober so I would try it out again just for one night. Then the routine would continue as it always does - smoke every night until I get burned out again.

I really feel that there is nothing wrong with the average person smoking a little pot every day as long as it is not interfering with their life in any way, shape, or form.

But if you have addiction issues, then I would suggest going to AA or NA to learn how to stay sober. Stopping smoking is easy, I'v stopped a thousand times! But staying sober.. now that's a toughie!

I know now that pot was a gateway drug for me as I tried various other drugs while I was smoking; I tried & got hooked on Quaaludes, then Cocaine, then Valium, then Percocets, then Oxycontin. I kicked all including pot but not Oxycontin. That was the one I could not stop until I went to a detox last July.

I think anyone who thinks smoking pot is harmless or good for you is fooling themselves. A friend once said to me, "reality is for those who can't handle drugs." I didn't know what he meant then but I do now. I cannot do drugs & function as a happy healthy person. I like what some people wrote about pot keeping your mind the same age it was when you first started smoking. How true!! I didn't grow up until I stopped getting high at age 47.

That's enough for now.

Thanks for listening. Gene

[This message has been edited by Gakster (edited 03-27-2001).]

I tried to stay out of the debate this time but, I just couldn't help myself.
Addiction is addiction is addiction - it doesn't matter if it's physical, mental, emotional, social, biological . . .
If it were a simple matter of discontinuing use of a substance once the physical withdrawal was over, if indeed there is any, then there wouldn't be any addicts - but that is just not the case.
The criteria for being an addict is not whether you suffer any physical withdrawal or not, but whether your use of a substance affects your life in any negative way(s).
No one can tell another person whether they are an addict or not - only each person facing that question can answer it.
It is callous to suggest that someone can't be addicted to a substance if they have determined that they are.
It is equally ridiculous to state that someone is not suffering from physical withdrawal if they are in fact going through that withdrawal.
As individuals we are all distinct and are affected by the same substances in different ways - some of us will be fine, some of us will become addicted - some will experience physical withdrawal and others will not.
Physical withdrawal can be very mild and short-lived or very severe and/or long-lasting, depending on the substance, how long a person's been using, how often, how much, etc.
It seems to me that the people who insist that pot is "harmless" are still using it and, for some reason, feel personally threatened when faced with the fact that some people can and do become addicted to pot and, can suffer physical withdrawal when they discontinue its use. Here's a tip - it's not all about you!
Anyways, I think that about does it for now.
Have a great day everyone!

I agree completely with Casper--couldn't have said it better myself!

Hi to all, just to say, I never said pot was harmless, I am not a scientist. But, I do know that it is not physically addicting. I also know it is not proved to harm a fetus in any way like alcohol, which is LEGAL in our country. I also know that alot of the studies of the low birth weight babies are from woman that do many substances, including cigarettes and alcohol, that is why the studies are biased. I also know that cigarettes are legal and have many unknown chemicals in them, and are proven to be PHYSICALLY addicting. The previous poster was addicted to anything he tried, doesn't that tell you all something?

Yeah, if I drank alcohol, I could die of cirrhosis, etc, many environmental unknown chemicals out there as well as what we consume. No one is that perfect, everyone needs a vice. Yes, I smoke the weed, no, I don't pig out, or sit around being sedate, which can kill you quick in itself! My point is we are all going to die of something and life is hard, we all do something that isn't good for us. I work out 6 hrs a week and still light 1 up! Have a great day guysWendy

Casper, I think you pretty much covered it, grabbed this debate by the balls and fed it through the wringer. I stayed out of this discussion because for the life of me I didn't know what the point was. Like you said, if physical addiction WAS the problem, all we would have to do is get the drug out of our system and everything would be fine. Hell, UROD might actually work then. But as we all know it is not as simple as all that, now is it?

And also, in general, just because someone is doing a drug, pot, pills, heroin, alcohol...if your life is fine, no problem, if you are happy and productive, why should that person get off? Mark my words, a time is coming when people are going to call the goverment and the media to account for this drug war.

Originally posted by Claudius:
Casper, I think you pretty much covered it, grabbed this debate by the balls and fed it through the wringer

That's funny - that's what all my ex's said about me . . .

Wendy/Starr -

This is a board of ADDICTIOM and RECOVERY. Get it??? Addicts trying to get better.

Sorry,hon, but if you are DAILY using a mind-altering substance, and I don't care what it is, sooner or later, it will catch up to you. Catch you in a few years.
PS - I've worked out for years while getting high - I used to go to the gym high on coke. Not a good argument.

I never said I have gone to the gym high on coke! You never read mt post! I don't do coke! Also, mu husband of 12 yrs is a recovering substance abuser, coke, alcohol being his drug of choice. He is straight after yrs of therapy, in hospital treatments, never detoxed on anything, it was all in his mind from his upbringing and his low self esteem. I do not do any drugs at all, you better read my post again, I don't consider pot ,this herb, in the category, of something that will ruin your life, family etc. unless you want to compare it to cigarettes, ok, it is not good for your lungs, but that is it. I am against all other drugs! So don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about on this addiction page, I've been living with it for yrs, and the pain and turmoil it can cause if you are a substance abuser. There is such thing as a recreational user, someone that is not like my husband or who has an addition problem to everything they try!It seems pretty ironic that all over the news this week is the subject of legalizing pot for sick people since it has so many positive effects on them. The government and the FDA will see this eventually. Some drugs are ok. Some are lethal, some can be used for many different things. People, wake up, if you can't get off pot, then you seriously need help from a DR. You have underlying addiction problems like I said, and it doesn't matter what substance you try, you will find one that you enjoy, then you will have problems. It is emotional. You need therapt, including meds to keep your mind at ease! Bye guys Wendy

Okay everyone. I'm new to thsi posting thing but addiction is nothing new to me so I'm going to add my two cents. I have fourteen years sobriety. My drug of choice was "more" more heroine, more cocaine, more marijuana, more alcohol,more ludes, you name itand I wanted more. The drug I liked the most was heroine. So again I am no stranger to addiction. This whole thing about marijuana not being physically addictive. Where have you been? Marijuana is a drug and yes it is physically addictive. Did I mention also that I work in the substance abuse treatment field in a residential facility and I see this physical addiction everyday. Marijuana has been known to cause to damage to unborn babies. Have you ever heard of water on the brain? Yes marijuana can and does cause this disorder. Marijuana is dangerous to your lungs and your unborn childs lungs. I know this first hand. I have recently been diagnosed with a lung disease that marijuana contributed to. Yes even after fourteen years of sobriety my choice to use is still coming back to haunt me. Many people take research and bend it to their wills. ie, marijuana is a natural herb, it causes no birth defects, tests and studies are biased. Just keep in mind that we fellow readers of the boards do have the ability to go back and do our own research and see that you only spoke on the things you thought a certain study or report said instead of what it actually said.

Either way I commend you all in your efforts at sobriety. It is a long and sometimes very lonely road. If you shall lose the path it is nothing to grab the hand extended towards you and get back on the road!

Originally posted by starr:
.... I do not do any drugs at all, you better read my post again, .... I am against all other drugs! .... Some drugs are ok. [/B]

Why get so defensive.
Can you say "DENIAL"?

Physically addictive or Psycologically addictive it doesn't matter. Pot was and is always going to be my favorite drug. Ive detoxed from nasty opiate and cocaine habits but would have to say that giving up pot was the hardest thing for me to do. Psycological is much more powerful than Physical.

Mr. Mojo: May I ask if you managed to quit cannabis and if so, how?

[This message has been edited by moderator3 (edited 06-28-2001).]

Claudius,

Yes, I've been clean for 7 years. Gave up the pot by white-knuckling, going to many, many meetings and just Jonesing all day long. After about 5 years clean, I was tested by 3 or 4 business trips to Amsterdam. You can smell pot on every street over there. I was instantly back to white-knuckling almost to the point of curling up in the fetal position in my hotel room. It goes to show how cunning, baffling, and powerful addiction is.

I was just lurking here and I have to say Victoria's comment really hit home with a family memeber of mine. My sister in law is 26 and she has the maturity level of a 15 year old, no joke!!!! I found out 1 year after I got married that she smokes pot constantly since her freshman year in high school. I have to say as soon as I found that out, I was like that makes perfect sense!!! She spends all of her free time smoking so she is not A casual user. her behavior totally makes sense to me now. When I first met her I could not get over how irresponsible and spaced out she was, all the time. Now this is an extreme case but after knowing her for 4 years I can't imagine her ever acting any different.

Your story sounds exactly like a friend of mine. I am 25 years old. He is turning 28, yet he has the mental age of a friendly, but moody teenager. He started smoking weed at 13. I began getting addicted to alcohol around 20. In my case, I believe that I was more mature at the age of 18 than at the age of 23 due to alcohol abuse. His immature behavior (throwing temper tantrums when not having his way) awakened me to how drugs may make us feel good when we are taking them but lower our maturity and tolerance for frustration when we can't have them. Finally, earlier this year, I wound up injuring myself in a tantrum of rage I was having. I am still suffering horribly from it and may not recover. My resulting immaturity and intolerance may have cost me my life.