phoenixnik
10-29-2001, 08:33 PM
I have a problem with all my toenails and one thumbnail. I thought it was nail fungus, but I have seen my general physician and a dermatologist, but the tests turned up negative. They then said they had no idea what it was, but that it was probably genetic and they could not help me. But NO ONE one in my family has had any genetic nail problems other than fungal nails (my mom had that).
When my nails first became infected, they changed from the nail bed on out (I was told that fungus does the opposite, from the ends on in). There is general, uneven warping and lateral ridges with these nails and parts of them have shapeless white splotches.
There is no pain, reddness, or yellowing, but they still are very unsightly.
Does anyone know what this might be? Or any awesome dermatologist in South Orange County, California that might be able to help me better?
When my nails first became infected, they changed from the nail bed on out (I was told that fungus does the opposite, from the ends on in). There is general, uneven warping and lateral ridges with these nails and parts of them have shapeless white splotches.
There is no pain, reddness, or yellowing, but they still are very unsightly.
Does anyone know what this might be? Or any awesome dermatologist in South Orange County, California that might be able to help me better?
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phoenixnik
10-29-2001, 08:38 PM
I should also make clear that my nails haven't suffered any trauma. I've had the toenail problem for 10 years and the thumbnail problem for about 6 months.
I'm also young (28), so I know that it doesn't have to do with age. Finally, I always take multivitamins, so I know it's not a vitamin deficiency. Thanks!
I'm also young (28), so I know that it doesn't have to do with age. Finally, I always take multivitamins, so I know it's not a vitamin deficiency. Thanks!
phoenixnik
10-29-2001, 09:13 PM
Last post, I promise. I just want to paint the best picture.
The nails also appear 'waxy' and the white spotches are cloudy and are not Leuconychia. (The spotches only appear on the infected nails.)
The nails also appear 'waxy' and the white spotches are cloudy and are not Leuconychia. (The spotches only appear on the infected nails.)
Marti
10-29-2001, 11:35 PM
www.dermnet.com/nailClinic (http://www.dermnet.com/nailClinic)
Try this link! You might have a yeast infection which does not always respond to a culture like a true fungus, even though it is a form of fungus. You could also be developing ridging or 'beading' from an iron-deficiency anemia.
There are some other good nail disorder links at the bottom of my nail diseases/disorders page.
www.hooked-on-nails.com/naildiseases (http://www.hooked-on-nails.com/naildiseases)
Try this link! You might have a yeast infection which does not always respond to a culture like a true fungus, even though it is a form of fungus. You could also be developing ridging or 'beading' from an iron-deficiency anemia.
There are some other good nail disorder links at the bottom of my nail diseases/disorders page.
www.hooked-on-nails.com/naildiseases (http://www.hooked-on-nails.com/naildiseases)
Marti
10-29-2001, 11:40 PM
http://www.dermnet.com/nailClinic/NewFiles/proximalSubungual.html
If the nails look like this, print out the photo and take it to your doctor. Please realize that these photographs are usually the 'worse case' scenarios, but it was the closest I could find to what you were describing. It is a fungus type infection that begins in the matrix of the nail, vs. beginning at the free edge.
If the nails look like this, print out the photo and take it to your doctor. Please realize that these photographs are usually the 'worse case' scenarios, but it was the closest I could find to what you were describing. It is a fungus type infection that begins in the matrix of the nail, vs. beginning at the free edge.
Marti
10-29-2001, 11:42 PM
Dr. nancy Satur is somewhere in CA. She is one of the consultants to NailPro Magazine. If I can find an address for her, I will let you know. You could also email nailpro magazine - to find the email address, just type in nailpro.com in your search engine.
phoenixnik
10-30-2001, 01:23 PM
Thank you SOOOOO much, Marti. I really appreciate it.
What you're providing in here is truly a great service! Keep up the good work.
Even though my case isn't as bad as those 'worst-case scenarios' you provided, I truly do think my nails are suffering from some sort of yeast infection.
I definitely plan on looking up Dr. Satur. Thanks again!
What you're providing in here is truly a great service! Keep up the good work.
Even though my case isn't as bad as those 'worst-case scenarios' you provided, I truly do think my nails are suffering from some sort of yeast infection.
I definitely plan on looking up Dr. Satur. Thanks again!
phoenixnik
10-30-2001, 01:37 PM
Don't bother looking up Dr. Satur's address for me, Marti, I just found it. She's about 30 minutes away which is perfect! Thanks again!!!
Marti
10-30-2001, 04:26 PM
Let me know what the outcome is - that way we will both know if we suspected correctly :)
phoenixnik
10-30-2001, 05:45 PM
I certainly will, Marti!
Actually, I've been researching this online a bit more, and I finally found a picture that looks exactly like my problem! I believe it's 'white superficial onychomycosis'. I know that this is a 'fungus' and not a yeast-based infection, but I am nearly positive this is what I have. How often do fungus tests give a false negative?
Here is the link with the picture: http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~thabif/html/superficial.html
Actually, I've been researching this online a bit more, and I finally found a picture that looks exactly like my problem! I believe it's 'white superficial onychomycosis'. I know that this is a 'fungus' and not a yeast-based infection, but I am nearly positive this is what I have. How often do fungus tests give a false negative?
Here is the link with the picture: http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~thabif/html/superficial.html
Marti
10-31-2001, 10:33 AM
Unless the 'fungus' is the type that digests the proteins in the nail plae and leaves behind evident debris between the nail plate and the nail bed, it is nearly impossible to determine exactly what it is. I've never heard of taking a 'scraping' from the matrix area since the plate isn't separated enough to actually retreive a good 'scrape' of the nail plate to grow a culture. White superficial (fungus) onychomychosis doesn't leave behind any debris that I've ever seen, so it would stand to reason that the fungus wouldn't 'show up' in a culture.
I figured if I sent you in the right direction, you would eventually find the correct 'picture' :) Without actually seeing a photo of your effected nail, I couldn't determine by your description. Anyway, at least you found Dr. Nancy and will actually be able to get it taken care of.
I figured if I sent you in the right direction, you would eventually find the correct 'picture' :) Without actually seeing a photo of your effected nail, I couldn't determine by your description. Anyway, at least you found Dr. Nancy and will actually be able to get it taken care of.
phoenixnik
11-01-2001, 08:23 PM
I just wanted to thank you again for all your help, Marti. I decided to try my doctor one final time before trying Dr. Satur (it's cheaper that way). I showed him all the documentation I found on the Internet about superficial white onychomychosis as well as what you wrote here, and he totally AGREED!
He even complimented me on my hard work and research!
He didn't prescibe any oral medications because he thought they had too many frequent side effects (including liver damage), so he prescribed PENLAC nail laquer. I was leery at first, having heard that topical solutions weren't that effective, but he said that this was the latest one and actually works pretty well. Do you know anything about PENLAC?
In any event, I'm very hopeful that it will be a solution to my problem. Thanks Marti!!!
He even complimented me on my hard work and research!
He didn't prescibe any oral medications because he thought they had too many frequent side effects (including liver damage), so he prescribed PENLAC nail laquer. I was leery at first, having heard that topical solutions weren't that effective, but he said that this was the latest one and actually works pretty well. Do you know anything about PENLAC?
In any event, I'm very hopeful that it will be a solution to my problem. Thanks Marti!!!
Marti
11-02-2001, 10:10 AM
I'm VERY glad to hear that he didn't prescribe oral medications because I agree that they are too harsh on the body. They are; however, the only recourse for some fungal infections. You will LOVE the Penlac!!! It takes no longer than oral medications, and will actually target the specific site so it can actually speed healing. By the way, your nails are 'porous'. They are constantly 'bathed' by a tidal flow of moisture emminating from the nail bed that transmits through the nail plate layers and is deposited on the surface - this is what gives the nail plate its inherrant flexibility and the 'matte' shine on the surface. It stands to reason if your nails will allow natural 'body' moisture to penetrate the nail plate cells, that it can absorb through the surface as well.
Keep your hands out of excess amounts of water, and do not allow them to be saturated with water for more than 3 minutes. Nails that have been saturated for long periods will result in split, peeling, dry, brittle nails. The inter-connecting bands that bind the nail plate cells together can become stretched beyond their limit and 'break', and the result is damaged nails. The same holds true of household cleaning solutions, so - WEAR GLOVES to protect your nails until they completely heal.
Keep your hands out of excess amounts of water, and do not allow them to be saturated with water for more than 3 minutes. Nails that have been saturated for long periods will result in split, peeling, dry, brittle nails. The inter-connecting bands that bind the nail plate cells together can become stretched beyond their limit and 'break', and the result is damaged nails. The same holds true of household cleaning solutions, so - WEAR GLOVES to protect your nails until they completely heal.
phoenixnik
11-02-2001, 01:18 PM
Glad to hear it! It is definitely a relief to hear you endorse Penlac as well.
Thanks for all of your advice!
Thanks for all of your advice!
Erika1
01-14-2002, 08:29 PM
I have the same exact problem on my toenails. My derm did lab tests, and it came back as a yeast infection of the toenails. I would imagine that if your lab samples weren't kept at the right temperatures, etc. the yeast could have died and the test would not come out positive...who knows? Like you, my warped toenails start at the nail bed. the Derm prescribed Sporanox (oral) and Loprox (which is actually the same thing as Penlac, only a topical lotion) to treat around the nails. She told me that Penlac doesn't work at all, and actually had <10% effectiveness in clinical trials. Let me know how the Penlac works for you. I'll let you know about the Sporanox.
phoenixnik
01-14-2002, 08:33 PM
Yes, definitely keep me posted Erika. If the Penlac doesn't work, I'd love to be able to suggest the sporanox and the other medication that your doctor prescribed.
It has been three months thus far since I started the Penlac treatment and I definitely see improvement in one of my nails. The others still remain pretty much the same. From all the information I've gathered however, it says that improvement is rarely visible until after six months.
Thanks for your post and let's keep in contact!
It has been three months thus far since I started the Penlac treatment and I definitely see improvement in one of my nails. The others still remain pretty much the same. From all the information I've gathered however, it says that improvement is rarely visible until after six months.
Thanks for your post and let's keep in contact!
Marti
01-15-2002, 12:01 AM
Any medication, whether oral or topical, can take up to a year before improvement is visible. True fungus is very hard to 'kill' and only accounts for less than 10% of nail diseases or disorders.
phoenixnik
11-21-2002, 07:47 PM
It's now a year later, and sadly the Penlac nail laquer didn't work. I stuck to the arduous treatment plan the entire year with only a handful of days that I missed applying it. I did notice that it tended to mask the problem (very slightly), but no new healthy nail ever grew. The entire time I kept thinking that once I stopped everything would return just as it did a year ago. I was right.
I stopped the year long treatment about a month and a half ago and now I'm right back where I started. If anyone has any new treatment ideas, I'd love to hear it.
I stopped the year long treatment about a month and a half ago and now I'm right back where I started. If anyone has any new treatment ideas, I'd love to hear it.
Marti
11-24-2002, 12:18 PM
OK, don't laugh now, but a friend of mine used Monostat 7 on her nails for the yeast infection. It took a while, but it worked.
phoenixnik
11-25-2002, 01:57 PM
Well, if it worked for someone... I'd say that it's worth a try. I'm open to anything at this point.
Just curious, but do you know how long it took for her nails to improve?
Just curious, but do you know how long it took for her nails to improve?