Well, first of all I want to thank aideen for her posts if she happens to read this one. You're topics have made me feel a little less alone. I've printed off some of them so I can keep looking back.
See, I'm 22 years old and my boyfriend is a recovering heroin addict. He's been an addict for about 10 years and he's been clean for about 10 months (1 month longer than we've been together). He had some slip-ups in the beginning with some pills, but he got past it and I've been so proud of him. Until yesterday... Just yesterday morning I was telling him how proud I am of him for staying clean like he has. Later on in the day, my mom came over. Seems last Sunday when we were there, half of her codeine cough syrup disappeared from her medicine cabinet (she's been sick). I felt ashamed and hurt. I felt betrayed. Later in the day I found out that this past week he also pilfered some valium from the bottle the vet gave me for my sick kitty cat. And I remembered that when I got my wisdom teeth pulled back in November, I went to get a pain pill (I had all four taken out) from my bag, there were none left and I could've sworn I had 2 left. I had to go without.
Don't get me wrong, he's a really good guy and we've got lots of love and respect between us. He's been depressed for months and he's getting a lot of cravings. I'm not trying to save him, I just want him to be healthy and happy. He was in rehab for about 3 or 4 months. He's in therapy now, but I feel so discouraged. Not to downplay these other f**k ups he's had, but it was a serious violation of trust for him to steal from my sick mother. I don't know if I can trust him anymore. I love him and I don't want to leave him, I just want him to get better. I need some input: advice, resources, anything...
Hope to hear a response.
peace to you and yours and some love
Natema

It makes me shudder when I read that "don't know if I can trust him anymore". The reason it does is because if you don't know the answer to that by now, nothing anyone tells you about him will make any difference.
Please consider this: why don't you know if he is trustworthy or not, by now?

He has to want help bad enough to go get the help all by himself...no one can help him but him. Part of you seems to still think you can rescue him from himself, or that he isn't really as untrustworthy as he behaves.

Sweetie, this is his reality: the way he is behaving right now. His words don't mean anything unless his behavior lines up with the words.

Your real decision is, is this what you want to expose your mother and yourself to? Is this how you want to live? Do you want you and everyone you care about to go without whatever you need that he thinks he needs, first or more?

Is it really love that motivates you to expose yourself to that kind of life?




[This message has been edited by friend (edited 01-09-2002).]

Hi - Please heed the other posters words/advice. You can't help him.

I know you want him to be healthy/happy. But what YOU want isn't the answer -- it's what HE wants.

If he truly wants to get clean, then he knows what he needs to do. Nothing you say, do, want, is going to make any difference. Right now, he's stealing from you and your mother --- and I'm sure he's finding some other ways to get what he wants/needs.

An addict has to hit rock bottom. All his resources for drugs has to dry up. You cannot enable him by feeling sorry for him, giving him money, food, a place to live. The only way you can *help* him is to tell him to go somewhere else. Tough love. It's hard, but it's what he needs.

I hope he gets clean. Addiction/alcoholism is a progressive, fatal disease that CAN be arrested --- but he has to want to. God Bless you both. Peace, Lee

[QUOTE]Originally posted by natema:
He had some slip-ups in the beginning with some pills,

For an addict like me, if I were to have a "slip-up" (and I think this goes for any addict), we wake up that "gorilla" It is the obsession to get more and the compulsion to get and use more, no matter what.

I felt ashamed and hurt. I felt betrayed.

You shouldn't feel ashamed and hurt. Don't take on his shame and gult because it will be more difficult for you to see the disease of addiction in his life. He wasn't betraying you, it was the disease that he cannot control. We do anything to get high. I used to spend all my money getting loaded and my car note was two months behind, I was desparate and I went into my mom's house and I knew where she had money stashed and I stole $1000 dollars from her to make my car note. Guess what? I didn't make the car note and I lost the car anyway. Talk about guilt and shame!!!


Don't get me wrong, he's a really good guy

Many of us are "good guys" underneath this f***ed up addiction that we have constantly hanging over our shoulder. If we don't constantly work on ourselves, we use again and the "Mr. Hyde" comes out.

I hope this doesn't offend you. I have a way of doing that to people without even trying. I say all these things to share my experience as an addict to maybe better help you understand. Our basic text says that "one addict can best understand and help another addict" so.... The best thing you can do for him is let him make the decision that he doesn't want to live that way any longer. He needs to stop using for himself. It takes us years sometimes. It took me 27 years of living that way until June of '98.
I finally made the phone call and went into treatment on my own. I was so wasted though I don't remember the exact date, but I use June 20, 1998 as my clean date because that is the first day that I remember that I didn't put anything in my body that was mood or mind-altering to change the way I felt inside. It has been a rough road, but I just do it slowly. I am even in a relationship with another recoving addict.

hope this helps, good luck.

h

[This message has been edited by hzebo (edited 01-08-2002).]

natema,
I just ended a 4 year relationship to a man who has smoked marijuana daily for 30 plus years. My kids and I tried moving in with him and lasted only 5 weeks. I realized that I could never be first in his life. Marijuana had one that place. He would get up in the middle of the night to sneak a smoke, drove me and my kids while stoned etc.

It is a very tough thing to leave. You see so many good qualities in him. You think of the good times you shared together and can't imagine life without him. It took me over six months to finally walk away from the relationship.

My kids found out that he smokes. My daughter said to me the other day, "Mom, if you knew he smoked pot, why did you have us move in with him?" She didn't want an answer, she just wanted me to think about it.

That is what you should do, really think about it. Is this the kind of life style that you want to be exposed to? It hurts like hell to break it off, but there is also a sense of relief. I am sorry that you have to go through this, too.

Well, I do thank you all for your advice. I am a recovering addict myself. I was in rehab 3 years ago and it was a struggle to stay straight. In fact, I relapsed myself for a while. I had that whole "I can just do it once in a while" attitude along with "I'm only doing pot now." I f**ked up too. I've known a lot of people in recovery. One thing I learned from my experiences and theirs is that there will probably be a time when you relapse, but that doesn't take away all the work you've done or all of the times you overcame the urge to use. He is a good person on a long hard road and don't I know it. He wants to be clean. This is his journey. I don't interfere or try to help save him. That's his job. He's discouraged right now and in a depression because the heroin he used to use rearranged some of his brain chemistry. He is in therapy, just started about two months ago because he realized he needed some help again. Is every addict supposed to be shut out in the cold and delivered to doctors & therapists only to rejoin acquaintanceship with those of us who are clean when he is clean? No. He deserves some support. He's discouraged a friend can encourage him, open his eyes to what he's accomplished so far. It's cold-hearted to leave someone because they're having a hard time and they've made a mistake.
Last night, I had a talk with him. We talked about whether he wanted to stay clean or not. He wants to but he's discouraged right now. We talked about what he did and how it made me feel. He knows the weight of it. He knows shame and remorse for it. He called my mother, talked to her and apologized again. Even though she didn't accept him at first(in the beginning of our relationship), now she offered her support to him because she knows he truly wants to get clean. He hurt us both, but he hurt himself, too.
That beast gets ahold in your head and you do everything you can to shake it, to reason with it, to quiet it and most of the time you overcome. Sometimes you don't, but you learn from your mistakes. What am I doing wrong? What else can I do to stop this from happening again? He knows this and he is doing it.
When I first posted, I was in shock. It was shock because he'd done so well for so long. I forgot about the things I'd learned because to me, now, staying clean is second nature, but I've had three years. This is his first and it's the hardest time.
He is cut off from everything here and he's grateful for that.
I thank you hzebo for your bluntness. You've reminded me of where I've been and the struggle of the beast, you took me off my high horse.
Am I going to give blind trust to him? No. Christine's right, he does have to earn it. I know that for myself.
Am I blind? Am I right?
Talk to me.

[This message has been edited by natema (edited 01-08-2002).]

Hi -

All of the above posts are corrct - sad but true. Obviously, your sig. other has NOT been clean and sober for the past 10 months - he has just not been using herion.

We addicts are manipulative, tricky, con-artists who will make you believe in us as long as we can get away with it. It is basically a survival technique we have learned - behavior that ensures we get what we want.

You should voice your concerns to your bf. and let him know that he isn't fooling anyone. Trust has to be earned - I have had to earn it back more than once - I have been on "probation" for a while now - who knows how long it will take for my fiancee to trust me completely again - if ever.


I wish you the best - make sure that you think of yourself first - rest assured that in an active addict's mind - you are NOT first on his list no matter what he says - his habit is his first love until he decides he wants to change for good.

Hi everybody. This is my first post, I wasn't even going to write but Natema's post reminded me of my own life. I was with a drug addict (weed, pills, cocaine, etc) for 10 years of my life. I was so afraid to be alone, I couldn't leave him. I just kept waiting and waiting for him to "come around" I eventually started going down the same road as him, doing lots of cocaine, until one night I found myself with a razor blade against my own wrist, wanting to just end it all. To make a long, long story short, I made some major life decisions right then. Getting away from the ex was the first scary step I knew I had to take. I swear I didn't know which was scarier, being addicted to drugs and loving an addict or being by myself. Fast forward 8 years later and today I can't believe that was my life. I am a clean, strong, independent woman who is realizing all of the things that I could only daydream about 8 years ago. Letting go and moving on is so difficult, but words can't express how good it feels to escape the co-dependent lifestyle, and take care of what I need. That's it.

natema I think you are still blind.

Feeling sorry for him in his chosen predictament is not loving him. You can forgive, care, and still move on. He knows he is an addict, and he chose to use, steal, and abuse others' trust.

We are not God that if we leave someone they will therefore have no one and no support.
He doesn't need a woman, he needs other men that understand men.

Let him go to bottom out on his own and find his own inner stength and appropriate support. If you don't cut him loose, it is for your own interest, not his best interest.

Unfortunately, when an addict uses, they do go back to square one. If you cut him loose and he does his recovery work and comes back in the future, clean and sober, THEN maybe you have a good relationship. Not before.

Hi Natema-I too print off some of the posts to read again later as they help me to remember and stay "on track".It's so easy to get tricked again by the addiction and your own wishes.I know my b/friend was drinking again today and for the first time, I don't feel heartbroken.I have reached the stage (thank goodness) where I don't care anymore.I've had longer with him now "in supposed recovery" then when he actually stopped a few months ago.
I too think that you are still accepting his behaviour because you understand his addiction.From my experience, this doesn't help him.He has been cheating you a few times that you can remember-what about all the times you can't or don't know about?He may want to recover like my b/friend but everyone is right when they say, you need tough love.Just yesterday my b/friend was saying how I don't need to worry...but it's all talk unless he actually physically hauls his proud *** to an AA meeting, a counsellor or whatever will help him recover.I thought (again)this time would be different as I wrote him a letter before we meet that he would be clear about what I expect.
I'm glad I did now as I know, he will try to make me feel guilty and charm me back into "submission".But I now refuse to do that.
Unfortunately, it sounds like you need to go through more pain to really see what is happening.You're making excuses for him, like we all do...I understand what my b/friend is going through and I know he's in pain but that's his problem to deal with and I don't need to ride this rollercoaster (and feel bad all the time)while he hangs around "deciding" to go for help.
I know, he loves me and though he uses that trick too of "I really need a friend at this time.Thanks!" (one of the first things he said to me), he doesn't.
He is close to "rock bottom" and it is very important for our relationship that I let him get there.
I'm sick of lies,hurt and not being able to rely on him.It's no relationship and I hope I too have learnt what I preach.
Good luck and look after yourself.I hope you keep a clear head and decide what's good for you not what you wish would happen.Let me know..

aideen, you go girl!

I know you all probably think I'm nuts for this, but I'm giving him another chance. This doesn't mean that I haven't taken your advice to heart, though. I am giving him another chance because he is in treatment right now, but if uses again(and especially if it isn't him who tells me about it) and he doesn't think he needs more help than what he's doing now, I'm going to have to reconsider our whole relationship. I know I haven't exactly been receptive to some of the advice you guys have given me, but it stays with me and I thank you for it. Thank you aideen for approaching the advice you gave in such a nice way. It felt a lot less like being told than having a suggestion.
Blind but not deaf, Natema


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Participating in real life is not so hard. Ceasing to
pretend that there is something better we could be doing is a
little harder.
-Tao of Enlightenment

My boyfriend is a recovering heroin addict. He went to prison for 2 years because of it. (before I met him) He got out, and a few months later he was back to using. (about 5 months into our now 13 month relationship) I was devastated when I found out that he was using again. I was half way out the door, when I realized how SICK he really was. What healthy person would go out and do the SAME thing that put them into prison to begin with? My boyfriend is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. You would never see him as a heroin addict. (at least what my view of a heroin addict was before I met him) Well, to make a long story short. My boyfriend is now in a methadone clinic. He hasn't used anything since starting this program, and we have gotten our life back. For those of you who don't agree with methadone, or see it as exchanging one drug for another, I can personally say that it has saved his life physically, and mine mentally. He doens't get high anymore, and in fact, if he were to try to use again, the methadone doesn't allow him to feel the high. He is clean and sober, and I couldn't be happier. This has been a miracle for us and he can taper off at his speed until his cravings are gone. With heroin, it's not about them "wanting" to quit, because they do want to. It's about being physically able to quit. I used to think that if he wanted to be clean, he would be, but I know so much more now. I guess what Iam trying to say is, don't give up on him yet. He's depressed and doesn't feel like he can do it. (my boyfriend was very depressed and basically wanted to give up) His addiction is a disease. But, it's a disease that can be controlled. As long as you can tell that he is willing to be clean, then stand behind him. Of course you are not God, and he will survive without you, but it would be easier for him to know that you are there behind him. Even if my boyfriend were to slip up right now, I would be very angry and hurt,but I would still stand behind him because he is trying. It's when they don't try that you should consider walking away. If deep down he doesn't really want to get clean, then you need to consider leaving him, but if he wants it, why leave??? People are worth it. Even people with addictions.

Just as an informative thing about the methadone - you CAN get high with heroin on methadone - it just takes more - develops a double habit which is REALLY hard to kick. Watched my good friend go through HELL to get off that merry=go-round.

Just FYI

Thanks a lot for your support jroeglin. It really helps to hear from someone who's been there. He wants to get his life back together. He's trying. And I love him. I'll support him.

Sure, you can get high off heroin while on methadone, and yes it does take alot more to do it. But, if one is sincere about getting clean, being on methadone can be a life saver. If the person is using heroin while on methadone, then they are not serious enough about trying to be clean. And then yes, that is a fatal combination. But, if you are on a stabilizing dose of methadone, you shouldn't even crave heroin at all, and thats what helps people learn to live a drug free life. Iam not saying meth is for everyone, because not everything is for every person, but, atleast in my boyfriend's case, it has been wonderful. He doesn't crave anymore, and even if he does a little, he can control it. My boyfriend tried quitting heroin both ways, cold turkey, and methadone. The methadone has worked.

WELL, I MARRIED MY BEST FRIEND THAT WAS IN THE THIRD GRADE WITH ME, HE IS A 100% DISABLED VIETNAM VET WITH PTSD, AND WAS A COCAINE ADDICT FOR MANY YEARS. I LOVED HIM DEARLY, BUT I LET HIM GO TO ROCK BOTTOM ALMOST TO SUCICDE. THERE WAS MANY UPS AND DOWNS MORE DOWNS THAN UPS SMILE, I HAD NEVER BEEN EXPOSED TO DRUGS IN ANY WAY AND THIS WAS A NEW EXPERIENCE FOR ME. HIS IN-LAWS AT THE TIME WAS ALSO INTO DRUGS WHICH MADE IT EASY FOR HIM TO OBTAIN THEM. I GAINED HIS TRUST AND MOVED HIS MONEY FROM HIM, I DIDN'T SPEND A PENNY, JUST KEPT IT FOR HIM SO THE DEALERS WOULDN'T TRUST GIVING HIM DRUGS, I WENT IN DRUG HOUSES AFTER HIM, YES DANGEROUS, BUT I WAS IN A WAR AND I PLANNED WITH GOD'S HELP TO WIN OR HIS SAKE, EVERYONE CANNOT GO THIS ROUTE, IT ALMOST KILLED ME MENTALLY AND PHYSCIALLY, BUT NOW AFTER 11 YEARS HE HAS BEEN CLEAN, IN CHURCH SERVING FAITHFULLY, AND HELPING OTHERS THAT IS IN ADDICTION. HE SAYS GOD DELIVERED HIM FROM DRUGS AND HE NEEDS TO HELP OTHERS ADDICTED. AT MY CHURCH WE HAVE A RECOVERING ADDICTION MINISTRY, WE HAVE 300 MEMBERS AND 150 OF THEM ARE DELIVERED, OR RECOVERING ADDICTS, WORKING TO HELP OTHERS, IT IS VERY SUCCESSFUL, AND THE RATE OF GOING BACK ON DRUGS FOR THESE FOLKS HAS BEEN NONE. YES YOU HAVE TO LET THEM GO AND PRAY FOR THEIR SAFETY, THEY HAVE TO MAKE THE CHOICE, AND YES WHAT THEY SAY MEANS NOTHING, BUT WHAT THEY DO DOES. I PRAISE GOD FOR THOSE WHO HAVE TAKEN THE STEP TO RECOVER AND I PRAY FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T, BUT WILL. THIS IS A GREAT BOARD, I HOPE IT CONTINUES TO HELP PEOPLE, THERE IS SO MUCH DRUGS IN THE WORLD NOW, OUR CHILDREN ARE IN DANGER FROM DRUGS,HELPING EACH OTHER HERE AND IN OUR COMMUNITIES PRAYERFULLY WILL HELP OUR CHILDREN IN OUR COMMUNITES TO OVERCOME THE TEMPTATION OF THE DRUG WORLD

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DEAR334

Natima,

I just want you to know there is help and hope for families and friends of alcoholics and addicts. It is possible to give encouragement and support to the addict while still not accepting unaceptable behavior. I have been married 20 years to an alcoholic. He has been sober for the last two years. I found help, hope, strenght and a lot of love in Al-Anon.

I had tried everything I could think of the "help" him stop drinking. Everything I tried failed, each time I failed he got worse, each time he got worse, I felt guilty. Then I would redouble my efforts and try again. The more his disease progressed the more insane my attempts to "help" became. I was caught in a cycle of failure and guilt.

In Al-Anon I learned that I am not responsible for his drinking. I didn't cause him to drink, I cannot control his drinking nor can I cure the alcoholic. I am, however, responsible for my behavior. And if I wanted to stop the guilt, I had to stop trying to control or "help" him. It has not been easy to learn to detach with love, but the rewards have been to great to count. Shortly after I started in Al-Anon, my husband hit his bottom and sought recovery. Even though I thought his drinking was the cause of all my problems, I found sobriety brought a whole new set of problems. But thanks to my Higher Power, and the Al-Anon program I've not only survived, but found peace and happiness.

You can find Al-Anon listed in your local phone book. I hope you will choose to join us, it has changed my life.

Love,
Shelly

Thanks Sherry, your words of encouragement are much appreciated.
natema

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Participating in real life is not so hard. Ceasing to
pretend that there is something better we could be doing is a
little harder.
-Tao of Enlightenment

hi,
was just looking over your initial post. maybe your man would like to try the Revia. you can suggest it. there is nothing wrong w/ that. it's not co-dependant to make a suggestion. perhaps there are other similar meds. (only if he wants to)

fyi: it helps to keep the home free of all temptation. (no meds) i keep mine at the office.
LAS

natema

im a recoveing Heroin addict and im a guy and i can tell u that if i had the support of my girlfreind/fiance i would hold onto that for dear life cos she would be the only thing that keeps me connected to the clean world so to speak so i would humbly suggest to stick with him if u truly love and care for him cos he needs u however he does not need u to add to his problem by either turning a blind eye to what hes getting upto or if u give him money for drugs (unless hes clucking but not clucking cos he wants to stop but cos he has not got the money as only heroin users knwo the pain of this) just be there as the clena peron who gives him the hope to get clean..
God knows but we are all individulas and why we use drugs we have our own reasons but i was abused as a child and im not sayin it as an excuse but that it definately contributed to my addiction i feel but the actual using heroin day in day out was by choice...
nayway keep ya head up...

Humble Man

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"So complicated it is to escape fate that you can never understand what im going through till we trade places...." - 2pac shakur

Hi Natema
I haven’t been keeping up with the board at all but have just checked it again as I have more trouble with my own boyfriend! Today is the day when we are splitting up for real. In the New Year, I did meet him again as he seemed to really want to try to be sober again but it didn’t last and things have gotten very bad. Perhaps that’s good. He was in jail just after Valentines Day (when he met me drunk and so we ended up fighting – how romantic!). He left a message for me to bail him out. I was surprised at my own reaction – I was so annoyed and thought “the cheek of him”. I see this as at last a healthy reaction, looking after myself. I bailed him out after two nights and he couldn’t understand, how I could leave him there that long. He is annoyed about it but I don’t care. I’m just back from Paris where I went on holiday with my two kids (from my marriage – I’m separating too) and we had a lovely time. I’ve decided to break with my boyfriend but if he wants to keep contact, he can by letter only. That way, he has to put in some effort into the relationship, if he wants it and we won’t be totally cut off from the one we love. As I’m writing, I’m thinking, perhaps it’s my way of holding on!…can’t do much harm. It’s very hard to remember the love we have for each other when we could express it to each other but that also traps you with the waiting for it to return.
I’ve always been a real fairytale girl – dreaming of the knight in shining armour to come and rescue me. I believe in love being strong and overcoming anything so I have hope for the future…but perhaps, that too will turn out to be just an unrealistic dream. It’s very hard giving up on someone you love but his actions show, he isn’t ready to give up the drink yet though it always feels, he’s near. In saying that, after coming out of jail, he went straight out again and got drunk! I’ve nothing left to say to him….I’ve shown him, I love him and now it’s up to him….hopefully. Eleanor