Midge130
06-07-2003, 10:44 AM
Hey All!
I have read some people saying that their cord is compressed at 5mm or 7mm, but what is it suppose to be? On my next appt I'm gonna ask what my cord is compressed to! I know it may not be important, but I like to know the details. :D
Midge
------------------
-Born a premie in 1964-8 wks early
-C-section 1990
-C-section 1992
-C-section 1995
-Shoulder pain since 2000
-C4-C5 bone spurs causing central canal stenosis. Annular tear.
-C5-C6 mild narrowing of canal.
-C6-C7 disc bone spur and annular tear.
-C7-T1 bone spur and annular tear.
-Myelogram 6-5-03
-Surgery-unknown yet, probably in 7-03
I have read some people saying that their cord is compressed at 5mm or 7mm, but what is it suppose to be? On my next appt I'm gonna ask what my cord is compressed to! I know it may not be important, but I like to know the details. :D
Midge
------------------
-Born a premie in 1964-8 wks early
-C-section 1990
-C-section 1992
-C-section 1995
-Shoulder pain since 2000
-C4-C5 bone spurs causing central canal stenosis. Annular tear.
-C5-C6 mild narrowing of canal.
-C6-C7 disc bone spur and annular tear.
-C7-T1 bone spur and annular tear.
-Myelogram 6-5-03
-Surgery-unknown yet, probably in 7-03
Sponsor
Memer
06-07-2003, 11:47 AM
Hey Midge,
Me too, on wanting to know. NS never told me what the size of mine was. I guess he thought I wouldn't understand http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/dizzy.gif . I did see the MRI films, and the largest herniation (C4-C5) looked to take up about 1/3 of the space in there. That's an estimate. I didn't measure or anything.
The one thing I do know is that the diameter of the canal is not the same throughout the C-spine. I think it's about 17 mm or something in the lower C-spine and more narrow at some point above.
[This message has been edited by Memer (edited 08-05-2003).]
Me too, on wanting to know. NS never told me what the size of mine was. I guess he thought I wouldn't understand http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/dizzy.gif . I did see the MRI films, and the largest herniation (C4-C5) looked to take up about 1/3 of the space in there. That's an estimate. I didn't measure or anything.
The one thing I do know is that the diameter of the canal is not the same throughout the C-spine. I think it's about 17 mm or something in the lower C-spine and more narrow at some point above.
[This message has been edited by Memer (edited 08-05-2003).]
DebbieMc
06-07-2003, 01:54 PM
Hi Midge. I might be the one you're referring to with the 5mm & 7mm bulge in my spinal cord. Since this all new to me, I'm afraid I can't really tell you what it means but I can tell you they classified it as "large," and it is that fact that makes me a candidate for surgery today if I wanted it. I looked at it on a ruler and it didn't look too large to me (more than a quarter but less than half an inch if I read it correctly)but from what my doctor said, any compression or bulge is not a good thing. He showed it to me on the MRI and it looked a lot bigger there than it did on the rule. Have you ever seen a bike inner tube with a bulging weak spot? That's what it looked like. But the interesting thing was the birdseye view of the spinal cord. On an MRI, your spinal cord appears as a black cirle shape (not a perfect circle) with a white ring around it. The white ring is where the spinal fluid is. When you see the area where my cord is compressed from that view, there is no white which means the spinal fluid isn't surrounding it like it should. That can't be good.
When I go in for my second opinion, I'll definitely ask again and share the info with you. When I saw the NS who told me this, he was giving me so much info at once it was hard to retain even half of it. But, since I'll be in close contact with these doctors in the near future, I'd be happy to ask him anything you want to know. I'll make a list ;-) I expect to be carrying a notebook with me whenever I see my doctors now so I can gather info and do my homework. I'm taking a crash course on ACDF ;-)
DebbieMc
When I go in for my second opinion, I'll definitely ask again and share the info with you. When I saw the NS who told me this, he was giving me so much info at once it was hard to retain even half of it. But, since I'll be in close contact with these doctors in the near future, I'd be happy to ask him anything you want to know. I'll make a list ;-) I expect to be carrying a notebook with me whenever I see my doctors now so I can gather info and do my homework. I'm taking a crash course on ACDF ;-)
DebbieMc
melanie dawn
06-07-2003, 03:29 PM
Hi , okay this is the technical numbers and ratings:
The spinal canal is considered to be normal in the cervical area at 17mm. The rule of thumb is; a spinal diameter of 10-13 is considered relative stenosis and a pre- myelopathy( higher risk of injury and or compression) A spinal canal diameter of Less than 10mm is considered absolute stenosis and consistent with myelopathy.
Now the spinal cord itself in the neck varies between people ( of course) but tends to be 8-11mm.
So as for instance in my case I am down to 8mm with the herniations, no fluid around the cord and mild compression, because I have a cord on the smaller end of the scale, but if I had a large cord the compression would be much more severe.
There are no definates with stenosis, some people have only a brush up against the cord and narrowing, but are multi symptomed. Other people have up to 50% compression of the cord before they are symptomatic. We are all very individual in how we react , therefor the MRI's picture is only as relevant as it compares to physical symptoms. The physical exam is more difinative of compression and myelopathy.
I hope this helps, and i didn't just make things as clear as mud, :D Mel
The spinal canal is considered to be normal in the cervical area at 17mm. The rule of thumb is; a spinal diameter of 10-13 is considered relative stenosis and a pre- myelopathy( higher risk of injury and or compression) A spinal canal diameter of Less than 10mm is considered absolute stenosis and consistent with myelopathy.
Now the spinal cord itself in the neck varies between people ( of course) but tends to be 8-11mm.
So as for instance in my case I am down to 8mm with the herniations, no fluid around the cord and mild compression, because I have a cord on the smaller end of the scale, but if I had a large cord the compression would be much more severe.
There are no definates with stenosis, some people have only a brush up against the cord and narrowing, but are multi symptomed. Other people have up to 50% compression of the cord before they are symptomatic. We are all very individual in how we react , therefor the MRI's picture is only as relevant as it compares to physical symptoms. The physical exam is more difinative of compression and myelopathy.
I hope this helps, and i didn't just make things as clear as mud, :D Mel
DebbieMc
06-07-2003, 04:31 PM
So Mel, what does it mean if the spinal cord is protruding 7mm? My doctor never told me how big my cord was, just how big the swelling was. Thanks!
melanie dawn
06-07-2003, 07:26 PM
I'm not sure what he would mean by saying the spinal cord is prodruding. That doesn't really make any sense to me. Maybe the disc is protruding into the spinal canal by that abmount?
That terminology doisn't make sense, when you clarify it with him, please let me know.
Thanks Mel
or it could be the protusions have reduced the spinal canal to that diameter?
------------------
Congenital Cervical Stenosis,complicated by:
Paracentral Disc herniations ,bone spurs C4/5,C5/6,C6/7
Advanced myelopathy inc. walking difficulty, loss of gag reflex with swallowing problems, neurogenic bladder, occipital neuralgia, spacticity
[This message has been edited by melanie dawn (edited 06-07-2003).]
That terminology doisn't make sense, when you clarify it with him, please let me know.
Thanks Mel
or it could be the protusions have reduced the spinal canal to that diameter?
------------------
Congenital Cervical Stenosis,complicated by:
Paracentral Disc herniations ,bone spurs C4/5,C5/6,C6/7
Advanced myelopathy inc. walking difficulty, loss of gag reflex with swallowing problems, neurogenic bladder, occipital neuralgia, spacticity
[This message has been edited by melanie dawn (edited 06-07-2003).]
Midge130
06-07-2003, 09:23 PM
Debbie, yes, share that info with me when you find out. And I'll definitely let everyone know when I find out on June 16th. I plan on taking a note book too with lots of questions!!
Mel, thanks for the technical numbers for the spinal canal. I think that it's so weird that, as you said, some people have only a brush up against the cord and narrowing, but are multi symptomed. And other people have up to 50% compression of the cord before they are symptomatic. But, whether you have symptoms or not, a 50% compression is dangerous....right???
Midge
------------------
-Born a premie in 1964-8 wks early
-C-section 1990
-C-section 1992
-C-section 1995
-Shoulder pain since 2000
-C4-C5 bone spurs causing central canal stenosis. Annular tear.
-C5-C6 mild narrowing of canal.
-C6-C7 disc bone spur and annular tear.
-C7-T1 bone spur and annular tear.
-Myelogram 6-5-03
-Surgery-unknown yet, probably in 7-03
Mel, thanks for the technical numbers for the spinal canal. I think that it's so weird that, as you said, some people have only a brush up against the cord and narrowing, but are multi symptomed. And other people have up to 50% compression of the cord before they are symptomatic. But, whether you have symptoms or not, a 50% compression is dangerous....right???
Midge
------------------
-Born a premie in 1964-8 wks early
-C-section 1990
-C-section 1992
-C-section 1995
-Shoulder pain since 2000
-C4-C5 bone spurs causing central canal stenosis. Annular tear.
-C5-C6 mild narrowing of canal.
-C6-C7 disc bone spur and annular tear.
-C7-T1 bone spur and annular tear.
-Myelogram 6-5-03
-Surgery-unknown yet, probably in 7-03
melanie dawn
06-07-2003, 11:40 PM
Yes Midge,
50% compression is a walking time bomb. It would seem in many cases that the large compressions without symptoms are related to a very slow process going on, and therfor the body does one of its miracles and adapts. Those who suffer a trauma tend to be symptomatic sooner. Not always, there are no absolutes, we are very individual in all ways. Including our bodies reaction. that is the importace of good neuro testing and exams to assess for symptoms and level of symptomology.
Have a good night, and the rest of the weekend,
Mel
------------------
Congenital Cervical Stenosis,complicated by:
Paracentral Disc herniations ,bone spurs C4/5,C5/6,C6/7
Advanced myelopathy inc. walking difficulty, loss of gag reflex with swallowing problems, neurogenic bladder, occipital neuralgia, spacticity
50% compression is a walking time bomb. It would seem in many cases that the large compressions without symptoms are related to a very slow process going on, and therfor the body does one of its miracles and adapts. Those who suffer a trauma tend to be symptomatic sooner. Not always, there are no absolutes, we are very individual in all ways. Including our bodies reaction. that is the importace of good neuro testing and exams to assess for symptoms and level of symptomology.
Have a good night, and the rest of the weekend,
Mel
------------------
Congenital Cervical Stenosis,complicated by:
Paracentral Disc herniations ,bone spurs C4/5,C5/6,C6/7
Advanced myelopathy inc. walking difficulty, loss of gag reflex with swallowing problems, neurogenic bladder, occipital neuralgia, spacticity