I remember, my anxiety was about my heart beating too fast, and I am used to it now, because my doctor said I have the healthiest heart there is, and I have to accept the matter fact of a death is part of human race... Fast heart rate is also part of symptom of an anxiety.

Zoloft took fast heart rate away, when I stoped Zoloft it came back... I faced it, and I accepted it... and I am doing fine, and my heart rate seems normal most of the time http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif!!!

Face your fear some how...

Pills cover the anxiety, and anxiety grows bigger under the cover... when the cover is gone, it explodes BIG!

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Just-A-Boy (edited 01-12-2003).]

Tranqulizers appear to stop that part of the brain that deals with anxiety from working - but this is not really so,. It carries on working overtime under the lid of the drugs, and consequently when the lid is removed, it erupts like a volcano.

For some reason i'd have to disagree with both of you.

If you're taking an SSRI, it's not "masking" your symptoms. Something like Valium, would mask your symptoms because it depresses the nervous system.
An SSRI isn't a tranquilizer, and isn't depressing anything. Infact, its fixing the imbalance in your brain to help you get back on the right path, so you eventually get to the point where you stop worrying, and you can get on with life and face your fears.

Just a Boy, I could not agree with you more. I think you are excatly right. Pill's to me just cover the face of the problam, and it is just that. The problam needs to be faced down cause untill you are not afraid of it, you got problams period.

Pills are given to you to depress it not to cure it!

Some may need some help untill they can face it down that is what the pill are for if you ask me.

20 years, I havent known a sole that has been completly cured of this and even with pills it just surpressed it, till the body became tolirized to the pills then it was back to square one and sometimes or a lot of the times worse than ever.

Conquar your Fears dont mask them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then you will just keep gettin better and better......

Not all anxiety and stress symptoms are from fear. There are quite a few things that happen in the body that affects the chemistry of the brain and it's imbalances. Illness and disease and hormonal changes can trigger anxiety symptoms in the body without it being tied to "a fear". This past year brought on anxiety symptoms which I ignored(chalking it up to age, not exercising, hormones) until I started having "panic attacks". At first I was scared because I thought something was wrong with my heart, but tests confimed it was fine. I was told it was anxiety and was told to take Zanax. I refused because I know that it is only a sedative and that they can be very addictive. I started taking vitamins, and Gaba suppliments and exercising. They helped a little, but I continued to have (what I call) body freak outs. My thoughts were fine, I knew I was o.k. but my heart would pound very hard, and my breathing would become labored. I would try to relax and slowly walk around my house for hours until it passed. I finally could not take another "night of happy fun-time panic marathons" so I got a perscription for Paxil. I am on 10 mg. and it has helped alot. I have an appointment with my gyno soon, because I think the source of all this is hormonal(early meno runs in my family) and I would like to only stay on the ssri a short time if possible. Anyway, the point of all this is that anxiety and stress symptoms showing up in the body is not always from some fear. It is good to get checked out to cancel out the things that can be the source of the symptoms.

Yes it was similar with me. The doctor gave me an EKG and said I was fine and a bunch of blood tests.
Drugs do help but they can only do so much. This is why I want to go to a therapist to work things out. Sure it helps chemically in the brain. But it doesn't fix the underlaying reason for things. That involves talking and realization. Zoloft has worked fine for me untill recently when all the old thoughts about how "I'm dying" came back. I'm hoping therapy can aid the drug which is still working in other ways anyways (such as improving my general mood imensely)

J-A-B,

Encouraging people with severe anxiety to stop taking their medication is plain irresponsible in my opinion.

Some people are able to cope with their anxiety without the help of drugs or external help - I'm glad for them.

I suffered with severe anxiety and depression for 30 years and probably wouldn't be here if I had not had a combination of medications and therapy to help me.

Please don't assume that because you are lucky enough to be able cope without help that everyone can.

Glad you are doing well though and kind thoughts,

Zafu

Drew H:

For some reason i'd have to disagree with both of you. If you're taking an SSRI, it's not "masking" your symptoms. Something like Valium, would mask your symptoms because it depresses the nervous system.
An SSRI isn't a tranquilizer, and isn't depressing anything. Infact, its fixing the imbalance in your brain to help you get back on the right path, so you eventually get to the point where you stop worrying, and you can get on with life and face your fears.

[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as balancing brain chemicals. We all have the same chemicals in our brains. This is being said by many doctors, just because they heard another one say it, with no scientific proof to back it up.
The SSRI's have been proven to damage the brain, in fact, and do flat line the emotions. That is how they work. But the brain is a wonderful thing, and parts of it can take over for other parts.

I am not saying to take drugs or not, we each have to decide our own situation. I am just saying we need to know what the true risk is. I knew the risk, and that motivated me to do the hard work of changing how I think so I could recover without drugs. It was pretty grueling, I admit!
But that was my choice. Others may need the extra help.

[This message has been edited by friend (edited 12-27-2002).]

I agree... Any psychological drug is dangerous!!!
Also dont forget, the makers of Prozac, also sold Heroin, as a pain killer!

It really doesn't matter; depressants like Xanax or stimulants like SSRIs, all control the brain but meanwhile dependancy and tolerance will eventually develop.

How does everyone think these drugs were developed? From discoveries of the effects drugs like LSD, heroin, pot and other drugs have on the brain. I saw a documentary that LSD was used in development of psychiatric drugs in the early 60's, to "cure" everything from depression to smoking. But the government banned those experiments in '68. Did that stop them? No, they got on boats, left our country to retrieve other hallucinegins from the jungles of other countries to continue experimenting. The psychiatric drug reseacher sat there in an interview, very excited about this and claimed it would help develop the psychiatric drugs of the future...well, that interview was in the early 70's, so I imagine the future drugs he mentioned are here today! So, even though todays' psych drugs, of course, are NOT LSD and whatnot, it makes you wonder just what is in these new wonder drugs and ultimately how healthy for mind and body they really are over a lifetime?

Originally posted by friend:

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as balancing brain chemicals. We all have the same chemicals in our brains. This is being said by many doctors, just because they heard another one say it, with no scientific proof to back it up.
The SSRI's have been proven to damage the brain, in fact, and do flat line the emotions. That is how they work. But the brain is a wonderful thing, and parts of it can take over for other parts.

I am not saying to take drugs or not, we each have to decide our own situation. I am just saying we need to know what the true risk is. I knew the risk, and that motivated me to do the hard work of changing how I think so I could recover without drugs. It was pretty grueling, I admit!
But that was my choice. Others may need the extra help.

[This message has been edited by friend (edited 12-27-2002).][/B]

Friend, any neurologist will tell you that diseases such as Parkinson's disease are caused by biochemical degeneration that results in chemical imbalances: namely of dopamine in this instance, so I do not agree with your comment about brain chemsitry, even though I agree with some things you have said. But misinformation is part of the problem here, I'm sure you would agree, so I'm sure you won't mind being corrected on that point, since this debate is about trying to come to grips with the vast amounts of differing opinions and information available.
Jenita, I think we should also acknowledge the fortune to be made from demonizing psychotropic medication.



[This message has been edited by doubledutch (edited 12-27-2002).]

lots of opinions being thrown around here. funny that none of us are medical doctor's either. in that case, i'll trust my doc: graduate from MIT and Stanford, and...former anxiety sufferer who took meds to overcome it.

Bottom line here is do what works for you.

Some have to, some don't.

I suggest if you dont have to dont do it.

Cause to me if they was that smart they would have done found a cure for this stuff, so if they are not smart enought to have done that yet, then they are not smart enought for me to be taken there pills.

I myself went thru pure hell and I made it without pills. But for some I guess they are saviours so a person really has to do what he has to do, every body is differnt.............

HEY EVERYONE!
I agree with Texas,I think if you can get by without medication(even just barely)you're probably doing yourself a favour.I took a beta blocker at one time during a rough stretch but I quit after the first month.I almost felt guilty like I was taking an easy way out instead of fighting against it head on.I knew i was just tucking it away and would have to face it again eventually.On the other hand if my panic and anxieties were to overwhelm me for an extented period of time I'd consider meds again just to push me in the right direction so I'd be able to get help.

My opinion is that for anxiety,social phobias and panic, meds should be a shortterm solution.

Anxiety is kinda like that bully in school,sure you can play hookie for a while but eventually you got to stand up for yourself or it'll never stop.

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doubledutch:
Parkinson's is a scientifically measurable physical disease that causes brain deterioration.

The brain chemical imbalance deemed to be had by suffers of emotional disturbances and solved by antianxiety or antidepressant drugs has never been scientifically proven to exist. The saying in this case is a THEORY passed along from doctor to doctor, that has not been backed up by research, because it does not exist in relation to purely emotional illness.

To say a brain is damaged with no evidence is in my opinion irresponsible. I wonder how many that are given these drugs were first tested for a brain imbalance. Or for any physical imbalance for that matter. I know my brain was never tested, and neither were the brains tested of anyone else I know that were offered the drugs or given to them.

I think the issue here is in regard to Stress and Anxiety, not proveable physical brain damage such as Parkinson's.

I always love these threads. I learn a lot. I find so often that my thinking gets real rigid on one issue or another. When that happens it always helps me to come to the boards and read what others have to say.

I guess what I have learned is that what is right for me may not be right for someone else. I don't do meds. Others, however, can't function without them. I can't judge them or say what they are doing is right or wrong. I am not them.

The only exception I would take to this is where it involves children. SSRI's for kids just scares me to death. My oldest son was on Ritalin for a number of years. Many many times as I watch him function I have to ask myself "Am I to blame? Did his Ritalin use cause some neural problem that he will have to contend with for life?" The guilt sometimes overwhelms me. Of course, there is no way to be certain that the contrary might be true. Indeed, he may be more functional now than he ever would have been becuase he was medicated. Just no way to know.

For those of you that do it without meds, my hat is off to you. For those that needs meds to cope I wish you luck and hope things go good for you.


------------------
Those who dispense tough love to their children now should be prepared to receive same back from them in 30 years.

I never asked or paid attention to where my doctor graduated from, but let me tell you his various framed papers on the wall is what almost killed me, because I trusted that.

Friend is right; there is no real evidence of brain chemical disorder when it comes to anxiety, depression, etc. After quite a sales pitch from my doctor on serotonin, etc., I asked him if we could test it to see...silly me..I actually thought there was a verifiable test. He said there isn't one!!!

So, would you get chemotherapy if your doctor only assumed you had cancer? Take insulin if again, only on the assumption of diabetes? No, of course not..why? Because these things could be damaging. These days, we seem to respect our bodies more than our brains in this regard, although our brains are basically the grand central station of our bodies, as well as mind.

Mydog: Don't beat yourself up. I believe most parents who put there kids on Ritalin do so because they trust professionals to help their child, and every parent wants to help their child if they are having problems.


[This message has been edited by Jennita (edited 12-28-2002).]

Hi All

I for one took medication for my anxiety and depression Cipramil (Celexa) Propanalol (Beta Blocker) and a sleeping pill. I think you can guess from this that I was pretty poorly to say the least. I was so ill I grabbed onto them with both hands and never questioned ANYTHING. I did have awful side effects at first but when they passed the overwhelming peace I felt was wonderful. I took SSRIs for 6 months and have been off them since May. The Point I am getting at is that the doctor did not have to do any BRAIN tests to find out what was wrong with me, I had obvious physical symptoms. I am sure you all showed obvious symptoms (to a doctor). Even the questions they ask of how you feel and what/how you think lead them in the right direction. Lets face it it is not normal to panic for no reason and constantly live in fear of EVERYTHING etc etc.
Since accepting what was wrong with me and the use of medication I have been able to rid my life of SOME of the stressful factors that probably brought it on. Through the use of books I was able to use techniques to help me when I felt the beginnings of set back. That was in the early days of being off my meds, for months now I have not so much as had a flicker of anything (buts thats not to say I wont).
I was too ill to help myself so I guess that took any decision away from me. I am so grateful to my super doc. Good luck in your decisions, and remember you have to trust someone you dont always know best.

Lizzy XX

Originally posted by Jennita:
I never asked or paid attention to where my doctor graduated from, but let me tell you his various framed papers on the wall is what almost killed me, because I trusted that.
[This message has been edited by Jennita (edited 12-28-2002).]


The point was that there are a lot of people shooting the poop on this site that have absolutely no medical training whatsoever. They read some article from the Internet (so it MUST BE TRUE) then proclaim it as the holly nugget and ALL OF THE OTHER DOCTORS don't know their ass from their elbow. If I were a bettin' man, which I'm not, I'd put my money on a doctor with years of experience dealing with a particular disorder, then to trust my health to a possible, perhaps, maybe if the moons orbiting Saturn are aligned, Internet article that suggests there MIGHT be a connection...BUT UNKNOWN AS TO HOW OR WHY...between a medication and a particular result.

Life is a risk. We take them every day (e.g., going to McDonald's or working in a federal building...people have been killed in both), yet we calculate the risk vs. reward and act on it. If the reward for meds are worth the risk then do it. If not, do what you've got to do. In either case, YOU make the decision.

nd

I just know that paxil at one time gave me my life back and the medicine I am taking now makes me better in the fact that I don't want to die anymore,so I do think medicine helps alot,sure it's not a cure but whatever gets you through the day is how I see it.

Originally posted by nervousdave:

I'd put my money on a doctor with years of experience dealing with a particular disorder, then to trust my health to a possible, perhaps, maybe if the moons orbiting Saturn are aligned, Internet article that suggests there MIGHT be a connection...BUT UNKNOWN AS TO HOW OR WHY...between a medication and a particular result.

nd

There's alot of irony there in what you say...do you realize that the whole chemical/depression theory is just exactly that: UNKNOWN...they claim a chemical imbalance COULD be to blame, and lots of literature on antidepessants admit they don't know exactly how they work, or why they do/don't work on some people. It's all theory! So when the moons align, someones' antidepressant might work.

I was flipping on cable and happened upon a documentary about the history of psychiatry, during the time they were studying the effects of LSD on "mood". Yes, LSD. The psychiatric scientist being interviewed was quite excited, saying they could use that research to develop drugs for the future, that would effect mood and help cure everything from heroin addiction to smoking(Zyban,anti-depressant, comes to mind on that last one). This was in the sixties; when the government banned LSD in 1968,, the scientists headed to other countries to continue the experiments, bringing back other hallucienagens. Apparentely, this is the whole basis for our mood drugs today. This wasn't on any anti-drug campaign, just a simple educational documentary on cable, which expressed no opinion.

LSD and extascy both work on stimulating the serotonin system. Everyone knows these are not healthy drugs. Messing with our serotonin system with SSRI's is probably not wise in the long run; but a short run with antidepressants is probably not harmful. So each person needs to know what risks they take...sure, life itself is a risk, but some things are obviously more risky than others. Maybe crossing the street is dangerous, but if you use the crosswalk at a lighted intersection, you'll probably be safe. But jaywalk, and you are asking for it.

I find the comments about taking drugs being "the easy way out" interesting. I once thought that but changed my tune when thoughts of suicide became more than occasional thoughts and more thoughts of when I would do it. Believe me I tried very hard for years with no success. Even with some therapy I was at the end of my rope. With a/d I've been able to lead a pretty good life. It hasn't been perfect, but it's better than where I would have been without out it.

For those that have been able to improve on their own, great! You are very lucky. But maybe you weren't clinically depressed. Maybe you just had the blues? Who knows! But if handling it on your own is so easy, why do so many people commit suicide? Would you tell a cancer or AIDS patient to just handle it on their own?

My point is that everyone is different, not every person will benifit from the same solution. For every person who has recovered without drugs there are many more who have tried and failed and either committed suicide, or gave in and took the a/d route. If those are the choices, I would defnitely say that taking a/d's is the way to go.

p.s.: I am not trying to knock anyone for discouraging drug use. Everyone's has a right to their opinion, I'm just giving mine and my reasons for it.
http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/t_up.gif

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Canuck_Lady

[This message has been edited by Canuck_Lady (edited 12-29-2002).]

Originally posted by Jennita:
There's alot of irony there in what you say...do you realize that the whole chemical/depression theory is just exactly that: UNKNOWN...they claim a chemical imbalance COULD be to blame, and lots of literature on antidepessants admit they don't know exactly how they work, or why they do/don't work on some people. It's all theory! So when the moons align, someones' antidepressant might work.



The same could be said for pretty much the entire medical industry. If in doubt, please read the following..."Complications: A Surgeon's Notes on an Imperfect Science" by Atul Gawande. Doctor's don't know exactly how asprin works, but you'll take it for a headache.

I can't recall ever hallucienating on zoloft. Has anyone else on this board hallucienated on this or other SRI's? We might as well put this documentary to the test, and this seems like the perfect place. Anyone have stories of flying dragon's or space monsters while taking zoloft, paxil, or other SSRI's? Have any flashbacks while driving?

Yes, and like using the crosswalk, talk to one's doctor and discuss the pro's and con's of these drugs. Don't rely on an internet bulletin board (jay walk) for making one's decision

[This message has been edited by nervousdave (edited 12-29-2002).]

Ok, durrr, medicine isn't perfect. However, the idea that depression or anxiety disorder is biologically based is just that...an idea. They have no biological proof. At least, things like diabetes are more fact..they have scientific tests to determine if you have diabetes or cancer. So, I give regular medicine the thumbs up for dicovering and "proving" illness in ones' body. Not that they have all the answers, or nobody would die of infection or disease, ever! It would be great if they did, huh? Thumbs down to today's psychiatry that certain "behaviors" are biological in origin; especially when they are too willing to prescribe meds for an obvious situational problem like upset in divorce, shyness, death of a loved one, etc. Hey doc, you mean my job loss can cause chemical imbalances? And here I thought I was just upset.

SSRI's are not the same as LSD...who said that? But they effect the same system, serotonin, so does the "feel good drug" extascy. This system should be respected more than it is.

The thing is, alcohol makes you feel great, ask anyone smoking pot, on extascy or heroin why they do it...it makes them feel good! So taking a SSRI because it makes you feel good doesn't necessarily mean it is good for you.

But of course, each must make their own decision about drugs, but they also should listen and consider that maybe this theory on chemical connections may not be all it's cracked up to be. Feel good now may end up in complication later. Since most anti-drug people/sites are either professionals or have legitamate life experience, their points should be valid enough to at least consider, rather than believing they are all goobers just waiting for the stars to align.

Chemical Imbalance its not proven, and thats not enough reason for me to take neurotoxic drugs!

I think a lot of people here have had interestin things to say.
Friend, for many years, the activity of Dopamine was not measurable, (some would argue that any attempts to measure it even nowadays are imprecise), and yet medications were being used to treat problems resulting from dopamine imbalances. However, I do understand what you are suggesting about tampering with mechanics that are still in many respects a mystery.
But there are many illnesses for which people take medication whose precise action remains unkown (Dave, I think it was you who raised that point in another thread, and it is a very valid point, IMHO).
I like what Tex says, that we all tend to become rigid in our thinking, and I find it interesting that some people become more and more entrenched in their ways of thinking the longer a debate continues, rather than demonstrating that they have really considered what anyone else has said, except to think of a way to contradict it.
Jennita, I don't even know what you had to say, because I refuse to read a post written by someone who responds to what someone else says with "Duuuurrrhh". All credibility is lost, right there, which is a shame, because you may have had interesting things to say. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif
Dave, you hit the nail on head, too, when you said that none of us are doctors. That is so true. I think it was also you who said in another thread, that whatever works for a person is most important. What sort of arrogance would make any of us think that we know for certain what is in the best interests of everybody else? I certainly wouldn't and would go so far as to say that nobody would.
I am very happy for people who have managed to deal with anxiety without medication, but for those who have not been able to do so, please don't feel presured by the prejudices of those who had not had the misfortune to be in your position.
And for those of you fighting these problems without medication, don't be forced into taking things you don't want to take.
As for woking on problems instead of taking medication. Who declared that it was an either/or situation?
Again, I am sincerely happy for those who have been able to work on problems without medication, but I can not and will not forget the crippling depression and anxiety a friend of mine went through not so long ago. Yes, crippling.
And while we would rather people be able to walk by themselves and acknowledge that crutches may cause all sorts of muscular and skeletal problems if used long term, we wouldn't deny a cripple a pair of crutches, would we?
Or should we?

Well, doubledutch, it is durrrr, not durrrhhh, big difference! It's not really the word that's funny but the way my kids make it sound. My daughter always says this in jest and it just cracks me up. Your'e not much fun, are you? That's ok; my family's a bit weird in the sense that we always like to be cracking each other up and tease each other.

My point about this over-prescribing of drugs these days would be that: although you wouldn't deny a "cripple" crutches, at the same time you wouldn't just give anyone with a slight limp a pair...thus allowing atrophy and eventually causing him more harm than good, making him not able to walk without them (dependancy) and actually causing new muscular and skeletal problems?

Intil they actually can measure serotonin in a living, human brain, this experimentation on the human brain is just that. With all the people who claim illness as a result of these meds, and the news of mental changes, sleep pattern disturbance, physical symptoms, dependancy, tolerance(eventually stops working), withdrawals and even violence associated with these drugs, you have to stop and think that perhaps not everyone should be so eager to believe they need these drugs. And since there is so much new research pointing to degregation of the serotonin system over a long period of use, one must consider long-term consequences over present relief. Unless your 80 years old or so; not much long term to think about, so I'd say bring on the pills or whatever gets you through the "end". The end should be one long party rather than suffering, right?

It's the mass-marketing that irks me most; if it continues, almost every man, woman and child will be taking something, whether it be amphetamines, antidepressants, benzodiazepines, or anti-psychotics. And it seems the latter is being prescribed more and more for non-psychotic people, without total disclosure of the possibility of developing tardive dyskinesa, a horrible and disfiguring neurological disorder.

Where will the medical community draw the line? They have already erased it!

[This message has been edited by Jennita (edited 12-30-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Jennita (edited 12-30-2002).]

There were too many posts to read them all and I hope I'm not repeating what someone else said. But sometimes a pill can get you over the "hump" - for instance I was obsessed and totally over the deep end with stomach problems I was having (caused by nerves!) I was prescribed Xanax and the Xanax took away my stomach problems, hence making me NOT obsess, making me hungry and feeling better, to the point I only take it as needed (maybe .25mg every 2 days or so, and I started out with .25mg 3 times/day.) It really got me over the "hump" to get back to feeling like my old self once again.

Panic attacks and Anxiety is not good for the brain either, after longated periods of time! It sure threw my chemicals for a loop! So all I got to say is "I love my drugs!!" http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Some people are ready to commit suicide, and if a drug is what takes the pain away! Then so be it!! We are alive and we are doing what it takes to survive! You want to talk about things that are bad for you or can kill you, Well we are all gonna die someday anyway! With my meds I just fill like today is not my day!!
Good Luck and God Bless!!

[This message has been edited by snoops1977 (edited 01-01-2003).]

Love can turn to hate in an instant. What I mean is, hopefully you won't develop tolerance to your meds as this can happen in time. Just be careful with dosing(keep it light) and it would be best to not take them everyday. Perhaps in time the issues causing stress and anxiety will be out of the picture someday, and slowly discontiuing meds will be a possibility.

I know smokers who say "something's going to get me anyway, nobody lives forever" but then I watched my uncle gasp for breath for many, many years before he actually died. My father-in-law couldn't enjoy a good laugh with the family without running to the bathroom to try and clear his lungs. So, we are all gonna die, true, but our health is important too!

too each their own. i think i have had just about enough of people giving uneducated opinions about medication. all SSRI's do is block the receptor binding sites on neurons so that the left over serotonin does not get reabsorbed by the cell. this in effect leaves more of our bodies own serotonin in our system so that our bodies can get enough that it needs to function properly. I may not be a doctor but i am a third year psych student who has enough common sense to know that some people need drugs while others don't. Not everyone has anxiety/depression for the same reasons. It has been proven that repeated traumatic events do alter the chemical pathways in the brain, in effect causing an imbalance. instead of reading pop psychology garbage how about going to a university library and reading scientific journals? you'll find real answers there and not something anyone could have written off the internet. i never asked for my problems, they were handed to me by life. without my meds i could not attend university, maintain an A average, be a mother or a wife, or even go out of my house. walk a mile in someone's shoes before you judge. it's a personal decision to take meds. great if you want to, fine if you don't. however, people shouldn't scare people with untested hypotheses all because they think there is a giant conspiracy theory underway. enough said, do what you will to get better, listen to those you trust

[This message has been edited by nono (edited 01-07-2003).]

Untested hypothesis? That's rich. Psychiatry's biological link to behavioral disorders such as anxiety/depression/add is untested hypothesis. Where are the biological tests to determine if a person's brain is low on serotonin? How much of serotonin is necessary in the human brain? Any numbers?

There are no tests. You can't establish biological connections without biological tests. Even the "uneducated" know that, so save it.

And it's not conspiracy..it's capitalism.

[This message has been edited by Jennita (edited 01-07-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Jennita (edited 01-07-2003).]

studies done on the brains of deceased people who committed suicide show a huge serotonin deficit. therefore, there is a biological connection. Furthermore, to quote a journal article "measuring serotonin metabolites in cerebrospinal fluid and studies of prolactin response to fenfluramine. Postmortem studies of suicide victims also reveal decreased serotonin activity in the ventrolateral prefrontal cortex. New neuroimaging paradigms, such as positron emission tomography (PET), offer an opportunity to visualize serotonin function in vivo in a more direct way than has previously been available. This technology may provide the possibility of timely therapeutic intervention in patients at high risk for suicide"

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jennita:
[B]Untested hypothesis? That's rich. Psychiatry's biological link to behavioral disorders such as anxiety/depression/add is untested hypothesis. Where are the biological tests to determine if a person's brain is low on serotonin?

Here's evidence of a biological link, do your research girl:


TITLE: "Glial cell abnormalities in major psychiatric disorders: The evidence and implications."

SOURCE:
Neuropathology of severe mental illness: Studies from the Stanley Foundation Neuropathology Consortium

"Recent post-mortem investigations have convincingly demonstrated cortical glial cell loss in Ss with major depression and evidence is mounting that glial cell loss may also be a feature of schizophrenia. These findings coincide with a re-evaluation of the importance of glial cells in normal cortical function. It is possible that reduced cortical glial cell numbers are responsible for some of the pathological changes in schizophrenia and depression, including reduced neuronal size, reduced levels of synaptic proteins, and abnormalities of cortical neurotransmission"

Post-Mortem brain cells are alot different than living, active functioning brain cells.... I notice that this research doesn't say if those supposed deficient brains had ever been exposed to the brain-altering effects of drugs(this could be legal psychoactive drugs or illegal). But it is likely, isn't it, since most people with schizophrenia have been on drugs most of their life to supress symptoms, and depression patients too!!! So, post-mortem studies are not considering those factors I would think. The serotonin deficiency could easily been created by the alterations of the serotonin system by drugs.

If there was lack of serotonin in suicide victims, why is it that alot of people commit suicide while taking SSRI's, which supposedly correct this?? The two boys that shot themselves after shooting up their school in Columbine...one was on Luvox(SSRI), the other on Ritalin.

Do my research? I have. But not the one-sided or incomplete. And certainly research funded usually by drug companies promoting the use of psychiatric drugs should also be under scrutiny.

hey JUST-A-BOY
its funny cause i have that problem too i always think my heart is beating to much so u know what i do now i know how to check it and so every now and then i check it and i tell my self to shut the hell up its NORMAL..anyways i just thought i would share it with ya ...

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stacy

I really find this whole string interesting. It appears that it is us against them or me against you. I have suffered from Panic Disorder/Agoryphobia(sp)/and OCD for 12 years now. Have been on all types of meds, max'ed out on some and now I am on Paxil (and near the top). I have also tried the breathing techinics. TRIED IT ALL. FOR ME, and I stress, FOR ME and my panics, the meds work the best. What we need to understand is that we all suffer from Panic Attacks in different degrees. SO, dealing with it without medication may help some but is not the answer for all. Until there is a "fix", I think we need to undertand that the drugs available are at least helping the best they can.

One thing I have read, and this really bothers me, is the comment "Deal with it, the panic attack is not going to kill you". I have a real issue with that. Your are right, the PANIC ATTACK ITSELF is not gonna kill you.....however, please remember that during this Panic Attack when very severe, your blood pressure sky rockets, your body trembles, heart rate is tremendous and the next day after a severe one, you are completely exhausted. So although the Panic Attack itself does not kill you, the effects of it are NOT HEALTHY for your body. Therefore, until or if you can get it under control without meds, do not discount anything. You yourself need to try it all and see if it works. Humm, guess I need to get off my little soap box now. I do enjoy reading these comments.

[This message has been edited by texaspanic (edited 01-11-2003).]

Tex,
Sorry yours are so severe. But temporary blood pressure raises and heart racing will not do damage...in fact, this happens when one exercises to some degree. Do you exercise regularly? I was diagnoised with mitro-valve prolapse a long time ago and I had a doctor who told me to skip any meds for it(bless him) but in order to do that I must exercise religiously the rest of my life. So I have and I never feel the heart stuff anymore. Exercise will do wonders but most people expect instant results and then quit. It is a lifelong commitment.

Doubledutch,
I will ignore you like you claim you ignore me http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif

I thought I'd put my 2 cents worth in this debate. My father had a sister and 2 brothers commit suicide. I have suffered crippling bouts of depression and anxiety in my life which brought me to really look into my family history and I am convinced that this illness can be biological as well as situational. All 3 of my relatives tried to treat their illness with alcohol and wound up ending their lives in terrible ways, leaving their families to deal with the agony of losing someone in this way. I choose another path and that is to take medication when I can no longer function. I presently take 15 mg Celexa daily and Ativan on an as needed basis and that is not very often. I do not drink or take recreational drugs. I would never encourage someone to not take medication that they need. If other parts of the body can suffer pathologies then so can brain chemistry and that folks is my humble opinion. All the best to all. Leah

"But temporary blood pressure raises and heart racing will not do damage...in fact, this happens when one exercises to some degree"

It's the constant state of tension caused by anxiety over the long term that does the damage, not a short term raise in blood pressure and heart rate. A change in blood pressure due to a change of physical state is natural. Constant high blood pressure forces the heart to work harder than it was ment to over an extended period. The heart is a muscle and it can wear out just like any other.




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Canuck_Lady

Originally posted by Canuck_Lady:
Constant high blood pressure forces the heart to work harder than it was ment to over an extended period. The heart is a muscle and it can wear out just like any other.



Constant high blood pressure would be a medical condition, although stress aggravates it, it has many causes. My father has high blood pressure and does not have anxiety in the least, but has always been overweight and doesn't exercise; his mother had it and was overweight too. He is properly prescribed propranonol.

Misty,

These things do run in families because children live what they learn. It is an unfortunate choice to turn to alcohol, which is known to actually cause depression! This just makes the situational depression merge with chemical dependancy and all the brain and nervous system effects and tragedy is usually the result. Sorry this happened too much in your family. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif

I wonder how long does it take Anxiety to damage the cardiovascular system.

How long does it take poor diet or lack of exercise? How long does it take for smoking or alcohol? The answers vary with each individual. I would say any drugs, alcohol and lack of exercise would do it swifter than anxiety! It took my uncle intil 64 years old due to smoking...another uncle 55 years old due to alcohol...my mom, who has had her share of stress, anxiety and depression due to "life events" (death of father and one son) , but no smoking, drugs or alcohol... is still going at 76 years old!

I don't know if this answers your question.