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Old 01-21-2004, 07:16 AM   #1
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Royalty HB User
my treatment...for all joints and spine

I know there are many cause types of arthritis: RA, Osteo, Spondyl Arthropoties, Reiters syndrome, ect.... I know that each of these types of arthritis are caused by, or helped by, different factors: stress, diet, age, gender, infection, immune system problems, ect....


Im in my late twenties and never had a problem with my joints before I had a urinary tract problem that I thought would just go away. It wasnt severe at first. I didnt have to urinate all the time but I did feel a slightly different feeling when I had to urinate. it slowly spread to my stomach (I thought maybe it was an ulcer). My finger nails started to look unhealthy and I got headaches often. Then...my joints began to hurt. Before long It started to hurt when I urinated.

I took some antibiotics that cured the urinary tract problem and my stomach pains. I was told all my other problems would resolve shortly.

Well, my fingeranails still looked unhealthy and my joints were still hurting. (Feet, fingers, ankles, wrists, knees, shoulders, achilles tendon and thigh pain)

I talked to a guy who said that he also had a similar story and his doct perscribed him long term antibiotics. He said that If I lived with an infection for a while, that the short term antibiotics would get the bacteria in the urinary tract and stomach but The infection of the joints would take longer.

I said thanks but no thanks! I never heard of arthritis being treated with antibiotics.


Soon I began limping.

I saw a rheumatologist who said I was fine. All standard Rhuematoid tests and inflammation tests were fine. I told her this started following a urinary tract infection so she tested me for all STD's, and Hepatitis A, B, C,....all negative. She tested my Iron levels and my liver and kidney...both normal. She did a metabolic test and said it was fine. She told me to take vioxx and I would be back to normal. Before I left, out of curiosity, I asked her if she ever treated a patient with antibiotics.
She said "No, I dont believe in that treatment but there are some doctors that do it". I said thanks and left.


The anti inflammatories worked great. I did notice that when I didnt take it that my fingers and toes started to go numb. I got worried. Then My spine started to hurt. All my joints started to make pop and snap noises too. I didnt want to just cover the pain with drugs. I noticed that my neck and jaw joint started to hurt and make a slight grinding noise!!!!!! that night I read how bacterial infections can affect the joints and get misdiagnosed as arthritis (although the damage can be the same or worse)

I decided the rhuematologist was wrong. I went in to see my doctor and asked him to perscibe me antibiotics to treat my joint pain. He did!!! I was shocked. He gave me 6 weeks of cipro!!!! He was teating it a Joint and Bone infection.

I swear to you all, that within a few days I no longer needed the anti inflammatories!!!!!!!!!! This was the correct treatment.

Im not saying that this will work for everyone. But if you have RA, reteirs syndrome, reactive arthritis, or the spondylarthropoties that you suspect may have followed and infection. Ask you doctor about long term antibiotics.

Search the web. there is a doctor name Gabe Mirkin. He has a web site. he has lots of good info. also check rheumatic.org


Good luck and God bless

Last edited by Royalty; 01-21-2004 at 07:17 AM.

 
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Old 01-21-2004, 12:07 PM   #2
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GeorgiaGirl404 HB User
Re: my treatment...for all joints and spine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royalty
I know there are many cause types of arthritis: RA, Osteo, Spondyl Arthropoties, Reiters syndrome, ect.... I know that each of these types of arthritis are caused by, or helped by, different factors: stress, diet, age, gender, infection, immune system problems, ect....


Im in my late twenties and never had a problem with my joints before I had a urinary tract problem that I thought would just go away. It wasnt severe at first. I didnt have to urinate all the time but I did feel a slightly different feeling when I had to urinate. it slowly spread to my stomach (I thought maybe it was an ulcer). My finger nails started to look unhealthy and I got headaches often. Then...my joints began to hurt. Before long It started to hurt when I urinated.

I took some antibiotics that cured the urinary tract problem and my stomach pains. I was told all my other problems would resolve shortly.

Well, my fingeranails still looked unhealthy and my joints were still hurting. (Feet, fingers, ankles, wrists, knees, shoulders, achilles tendon and thigh pain)

I talked to a guy who said that he also had a similar story and his doct perscribed him long term antibiotics. He said that If I lived with an infection for a while, that the short term antibiotics would get the bacteria in the urinary tract and stomach but The infection of the joints would take longer.

I said thanks but no thanks! I never heard of arthritis being treated with antibiotics.


Soon I began limping.

I saw a rheumatologist who said I was fine. All standard Rhuematoid tests and inflammation tests were fine. I told her this started following a urinary tract infection so she tested me for all STD's, and Hepatitis A, B, C,....all negative. She tested my Iron levels and my liver and kidney...both normal. She did a metabolic test and said it was fine. She told me to take vioxx and I would be back to normal. Before I left, out of curiosity, I asked her if she ever treated a patient with antibiotics.
She said "No, I dont believe in that treatment but there are some doctors that do it". I said thanks and left.


The anti inflammatories worked great. I did notice that when I didnt take it that my fingers and toes started to go numb. I got worried. Then My spine started to hurt. All my joints started to make pop and snap noises too. I didnt want to just cover the pain with drugs. I noticed that my neck and jaw joint started to hurt and make a slight grinding noise!!!!!! that night I read how bacterial infections can affect the joints and get misdiagnosed as arthritis (although the damage can be the same or worse)

I decided the rhuematologist was wrong. I went in to see my doctor and asked him to perscibe me antibiotics to treat my joint pain. He did!!! I was shocked. He gave me 6 weeks of cipro!!!! He was teating it a Joint and Bone infection.

I swear to you all, that within a few days I no longer needed the anti inflammatories!!!!!!!!!! This was the correct treatment.

Im not saying that this will work for everyone. But if you have RA, reteirs syndrome, reactive arthritis, or the spondylarthropoties that you suspect may have followed and infection. Ask you doctor about long term antibiotics.

Search the web. there is a doctor name Gabe Mirkin. He has a web site. he has lots of good info. also check rheumatic.org


Good luck and God bless
Royalty, this is amazing!! I have NEVER heard of antibiotic therapy for arthritis. but is does make sense. You stated you took Cipro for 6 wks. How much per day? How long before you saw "some" improvement? Do you also have OA? I suffer from OA AND RA.

 
Old 01-21-2004, 01:02 PM   #3
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Royalty HB User
Re: my treatment...for all joints and spine

I dont know if antibiotics will work for osteo or not. But from what i read (testimonials) the rhuematoid can be basically eliminated with long term antibiotics.

I noticed an improvement within days! I swear I truly didnt think it was going to work but it did. remember It was bacteria that was causing my joint pains.

This is only my second week of treatment by the way! I still have 4 more weeks to go. I will probably switch to a second antibiotic after to make sure the job is done.

As far as "permanant" cartilage damage goes I read that if you combine glucosamine with acetylglucosamine your body will have the building blocks to repair the damaged cartilage. the reason you shouldnt just use traditional glucosamine is that some people's bodies cant convert the glucosamine into acetylglucosamine (which is what actually repairs the joints)


It is important to eat lots of foods that supply sulfur because it is need for repairing joints. (MSM is a source of sulfur) Foods that contain plenty of sulfur are Eggs, Garlic and Onions.

Also eat foods like brown rice because it contains silca.Silica is needed for repairing connective tissue.

of course supplement your diet with calcium and magnesium


IMPORTANT-Some people may need to be on antibiotics for months. This can open a person up to yeast infections so It will be important to eat a low sugar diet and eat nothing with yeast in it. (yeast thrives in a sugary environment). Also antibiotics kill all bacteria, even the "good" bacteria that your body needs so you must supplement with acidophilus

 
Old 01-21-2004, 01:19 PM   #4
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GeorgiaGirl404 HB User
Re: my treatment...for all joints and spine

My fingers are twisted and deformed looking and its getting worse. Is that OA or RA?

 
Old 01-21-2004, 01:31 PM   #5
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sunshine123 HB Usersunshine123 HB Usersunshine123 HB Usersunshine123 HB User
Re: my treatment...for all joints and spine

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaGirl404
My fingers are twisted and deformed looking and its getting worse. Is that OA or RA?
Georgia:

From what I've been told by Drs., twisted fingers are a sign of RA.

 
Old 01-21-2004, 01:31 PM   #6
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Royalty HB User
Re: my treatment...for all joints and spine

that is either RA or reactive arthritis. You may want to consider surgery to straigten them out if they are too bent. Antibiotics may stop further damage. Get them straightened out and stop the RA with antibiotics (and take your supplements)

 
Old 01-22-2004, 10:46 AM   #7
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Bruce HB User
Re: my treatment...for all joints and spine

Royalty, i don't mean to offend you but their are many things you have described that concern me.

Antibiotics don' kill all bacteria and do not cure arthritis. It is possible your synovial fluid became infected, because you delayed treating your UTI. Bacteria can be spread throughout the body by the blood stream.

Yeast does become colonized in the body after taking antibiotics. but the main area affected is the vaginal tract.

I don't believe you had arthritis and asking a physician for an antibiotic is not wise.

By insisting on another stronger antibiotic after finishing the first one, could cause pseudomembanous colitis which is caused by C. difficle toxin.

All it seems to me is you allowed these complicationa to occur.

Sorry, i just respectfully disagree with your recommendations and many people seem to think you have found the cue for arthritis, but i just don't believe it.

 
Old 01-22-2004, 12:33 PM   #8
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Join Date: Jan 2004
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Royalty HB User
Re: my treatment...for all joints and spine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce
Royalty, i don't mean to offend you but their are many things you have described that concern me.

Antibiotics don' kill all bacteria and do not cure arthritis. It is possible your synovial fluid became infected, because you delayed treating your UTI. Bacteria can be spread throughout the body by the blood stream.

Yeast does become colonized in the body after taking antibiotics. but the main area affected is the vaginal tract.

I don't believe you had arthritis and asking a physician for an antibiotic is not wise.

By insisting on another stronger antibiotic after finishing the first one, could cause pseudomembanous colitis which is caused by C. difficle toxin.

All it seems to me is you allowed these complicationa to occur.

Sorry, i just respectfully disagree with your recommendations and many people seem to think you have found the cue for arthritis, but i just don't believe it.


I havent found the cure. Check around the web about antibiotics and arthritis. read what is being said and make up your own mind. These people generally suffer from rheumatoid arthritis or what is know as reiters syndrome. Both forms of arthritis can be triggered by a bacterial infection. My rheumatolgist even admits that she knows of doctors using antibiotics for certain forms of arthritis (she is not one of them)

Actually I will switch to a weaker antibiotic when Im done with the cipro. this is to avoid a secondary infection.

You are right about one thing, I did allow this to happen. one of the signs of a urinary tract infection is lower abdominal pain. I had this and thought it was a hernia from weight lifting. If I knew what was going on at the time I would have taken a tetracycline for a week and I would have been fine.

 
Old 01-22-2004, 05:35 PM   #9
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snowmelts HB User
Re: my treatment...for all joints and spine

I wish all of you luck.
I have OA and I must say diagnoseing osteoarthritis is pretty much a no-brainer since it shows up loud and clear in any X-ray of the area in question. No guess work needed on that one.

OA Has nothing to do with infections.
Nobody is gonna cure OA with antibiotics, that's for sure.

Perhaps the other types of arthritis are harder to DX, but OA easily is diagnosed because it shows up so very plain and clear in pics like X-rays, MRI's, Cat Scans, and mine even was mentioned on my bone Density Scan results.

Last edited by snowmelts; 01-22-2004 at 05:45 PM.

 
Old 01-22-2004, 06:27 PM   #10
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Bruce HB User
Re: my treatment...for all joints and spine

i have oe in both knees plus a painnful shoulder. My walking is restricted and my left arm occ. feels like it will fall off, and i have yet to find an antibiotic or supplement that will relieve the pain

 
Old 01-22-2004, 06:50 PM   #11
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snowmelts HB User
Re: my treatment...for all joints and spine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce
i have oe in both knees plus a painnful shoulder. My walking is restricted and my left arm occ. feels like it will fall off, and i have yet to find an antibiotic or supplement that will relieve the pain
I know. Oh boy do I know.
Actually I find the Glu/Chon suppliments do help my knees and you'll never believe it but alfalfa tablets help for some strange reason. I take 3 every day and they do seem to help. Have no idea if it would help anyone else or not. Helps my digestion too. But it doesn't cure just "helps" you know, the daily aches and pains.
I do NOT do stairs.
I can testify that babysitting/chasing kids all day is a pain in the knees & back.
I find 10 min on a excercise bike at NO-resistance setting helps keep my knees more "movable" (I can't do any resistance setting, too painful and the Dr said that would be bad)
I love my heating pad.
I love my aspercream.
And I have athletic knee supports for when the muscles at the sides of the knees are screaming their heads from over working.

I also have it in my spine. THAT is 24/7 problems.
I got to have a pillow behind my back in the car to set even a few minutes and drive.
I think Thermacare heating back wraps are the best invention since sliced bread.
I have taken Physical Therapy for it and it helped a bit.
Doesn't cure it but the excercises do help me bend without as much pain.

My current concern is that I have Both Osteoarthritis in my spine AND Borderline Osteoporosis in my spine. An excercise for one is bad for the other!!! (actually an unusual combination since most arthritis with osteoporosis is the RA kind rather than OA like I have)

I've heard some yoga is good for OA..but I don't know about it being good for Osteoporosis.. I'm gonna read a couple books on that concept.

I think what Royalty is saying is that sometimes when something is hard to DX we don't always have what we think we have.
His suggestion is not out of wack..cuz all he is doing is say ASK the Dr his opinion..any Dr will know if there is any possibility of the med helping that person who has even an undecided DX. But of course with OA, we know for sure.
Dr's aren't going to prescribe antibiotics without a valid reason.

Everyone take care.

Last edited by snowmelts; 01-22-2004 at 07:12 PM.

 
Old 01-23-2004, 02:48 PM   #12
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niecsey HB Userniecsey HB User
Re: my treatment...for all joints and spine

Hi l seent his on net about 18mth ago about antibiotics!!!

 
Old 01-23-2004, 03:38 PM   #13
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Bruce HB User
Re: my treatment...for all joints and spine

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmelts
I know. Oh boy do I know.
Actually I find the Glu/Chon suppliments do help my knees and you'll never believe it but alfalfa tablets help for some strange reason. I take 3 every day and they do seem to help. Have no idea if it would help anyone else or not. Helps my digestion too. But it doesn't cure just "helps" you know, the daily aches and pains.
I do NOT do stairs.
I can testify that babysitting/chasing kids all day is a pain in the knees & back.
I find 10 min on a excercise bike at NO-resistance setting helps keep my knees more "movable" (I can't do any resistance setting, too painful and the Dr said that would be bad)
I love my heating pad.
I love my aspercream.
And I have athletic knee supports for when the muscles at the sides of the knees are screaming their heads from over working.

I also have it in my spine. THAT is 24/7 problems.
I got to have a pillow behind my back in the car to set even a few minutes and drive.
I think Thermacare heating back wraps are the best invention since sliced bread.
I have taken Physical Therapy for it and it helped a bit.
Doesn't cure it but the excercises do help me bend without as much pain.

My current concern is that I have Both Osteoarthritis in my spine AND Borderline Osteoporosis in my spine. An excercise for one is bad for the other!!! (actually an unusual combination since most arthritis with osteoporosis is the RA kind rather than OA like I have)

I've heard some yoga is good for OA..but I don't know about it being good for Osteoporosis.. I'm gonna read a couple books on that concept.

I think what Royalty is saying is that sometimes when something is hard to DX we don't always have what we think we have.
His suggestion is not out of wack..cuz all he is doing is say ASK the Dr his opinion..any Dr will know if there is any possibility of the med helping that person who has even an undecided DX. But of course with OA, we know for sure.
Dr's aren't going to prescribe antibiotics without a valid reason.

Everyone take care.

I am going to get a consult from an orthopedic surgeon that was trained at John Hopkins. I plan to ask a lot of questiona about the use of supplements.
I am betting he will not have a good opinion.

A friend recommended a supplement that was supposed to relieve pain. It claimed rrelief within 15 min. I have applied it three times and could not detect a difference in pain. It's called PK 5 and i just wasted $34 for two ounces.
The label was a little mysteryous, oriental herbs and other unknown aubstances.
The testimonials were impressive, but far from a scientific study.

That is the last supplement for me. Their is no scientific proof that most of these supplements improve any symptoms. In fact, their is a warning from the FDA on the label stating it should not be used for treatment of a disease.

 
Old 01-23-2004, 03:44 PM   #14
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Re: my treatment...for all joints and spine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce
I am going to get a consult from an orthopedic surgeon that was trained at John Hopkins. I plan to ask a lot of questiona about the use of supplements.
I am betting he will not have a good opinion.

A friend recommended a supplement that was supposed to relieve pain. It claimed rrelief within 15 min. I have applied it three times and could not detect a difference in pain. It's called PK 5 and i just wasted $34 for two ounces.
The label was a little mysteryous, oriental herbs and other unknown aubstances.
The testimonials were impressive, but far from a scientific study.

That is the last supplement for me. Their is no scientific proof that most of these supplements improve any symptoms. In fact, their is a warning from the FDA on the label stating it should not be used for treatment of a disease.
I've spent so much money on every kind of herbal remedy and nothing has worked. None of the topical creams help me either. So, I'll continue taking Bextra. It relieves the pain most of the time. Hot baths also help me.

 
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