Echolalia in Asperger's/Autism: Gender Bias in Autism? - Asperger's Syndrome Message Board

mmanion · 03-06-2008, 09:13 AM

My niece, who is now 17, was diagnosed at age 10 with Asperger's, but with echolalia as a small child. However, as I read info on echolalia, it sounds like it is is strictly repetition of other people's utterances. She, on the other hand, repeats herself--at least the last syllable or sound of words at the end of a sentence. She did copy other utterances when she was little. In fact, her conversation consisted of repeating verbatim lines from Disney movies. She does not do this now, although she still does the "reverse" stuttering thing every now and then. When she is stressed, she flaps her hands or makes quiet grunting noises. Can echolalia present with end of word stuttering?

She is currently being reassessed by a doctor who has autism spectrum experience--her current psychiatrist (not the person who originally diagnosed her) does not think she has Asperger's or autism at all. He is not convinced that girls should even be diagnosed with this disorder. I know this is controversial topic right now and, being I am no expert on this topic, I hesitate to add any comments, except to say if it's not autism, than what is it? Clearly something is wrong and to suggest that it can't be autism if the affected person is a girl seems dismissive and leaves parents and affected people in a major dilemma. I'm curious to hear what others have to say about this.

roses4lace · 03-07-2008, 12:32 AM

Her parents are wise to have her reassessed by a doctor who has autism spectrum experience. Attitudes like her psychiatrist are the reason so many of us "girls" have fallen through the cracks. They don't know how our symptoms look, they don't understand how much we can manipulate our behavior so we appear to "fit in". You might also want to check with the nearest Autism society to see who they recommend for Asperger's in your area.

My preference is for an Asperger's specialist to say "it isn't Asperger's", than for a run-of-the mill, general purpose psychiatrist, psychologist, or social worker to proclaim it, when they probably wouldn't recognize Asperger's in a female if she jumped up and slapped them upside the head. I figured it out myself, and when I told my psychologist of 17 years, she declared that I didn't have Asperger's. However, two experts said I did, and only when I finally went to a specialist in Aspergers did I get the help dealing with social problems that I had needed for so many years. The new psychologist asked questions and focused on behaviors and events that went right over the head of my prior psychologist, who tried to attribute all my problems to male/female power struggles, dysfunctional family, authority problems, and sexual issues. She wouldn't listen when I would tell her that didn't sound right to me, didn't seem to fit my situation, and things weren't getting better. Now, don't get me wrong. When I first went to her I was a mess from my dysfunctional family issues and a divorce. She helped me tremendously with those issues. However, after many years there were still a lot of problems that she wasn't helping with, which turned out to be the Asperger's problems. She just didn't have the proper training to help me with that.

I went to a conference last week, and am interested in an fMRI study on Aspergers they are doing in my area. I was told that all the studies so far were on males. That it would be difficult to get a female in the study, lot of hoops to jump through regarding possible pregnancy, etc. So how the heck are they going to find out about females if we aren't even allowed to be in the studies???? Gender Bias - you better believe it!

mmanion · 03-07-2008, 09:58 AM

Thanks for your insight. It is especially valuable since you've experienced this stuff first hand! Frankly, I'm not sure if what she has is Asperger's, high-functioning autism, or something completely different. All I know for sure is that she has pretty serious functional impairments (eg can't remember which bus stop she needs to get off at to get home, gets lost in her own neighborhood, suffers from chronic exhaustion and naps almost every day after school, etc) and is not getting the help she needs because of some arbitrary labeling issues. She is the sweetest-natured and most accomodating young lady that I think you hit the nail on the head--she goes to tremendous lengths to fit in (probably why she's so tired) and that ultimately hurts her in getting the help she needs.

She is also very, very small for her age. She developed normally in all other physical ways, but is noticeably short--around 4'10"--in a family of tall Nordic ethnicity. Is short stature associated with Asperger's/autism? I've wondered if she has some sort of undiagnosed genetic syndrome that might account for all of these issues.

GatsbyLuvr1920 · 03-07-2008, 11:05 AM

roses4lace is quite right when she said that girls with ASDs "fall through the cracks." Our symptoms tend to be milder because we can hide them better, but that doesn't mean that we don't have ASDs. The reason I went undiagnosed for so long (besides the fact that Asperger's wasn't known about when I was a child) is because I don't have horrible social deficits. I'm "quirky" and don't fit in with the crowd, but I can function. My Asperger's is definied by the "special interests" and the sensory issues- I am the textbook case of AS when it comes to those two areas.

It sounds as if your niece has visual-spatial problems, and you may want to consider looking up Nonverbal Learning Disorder (NLD). It is now being debated whether Asperger's is a form of high-functioning autism or a form of NLD. Many with AS have comorbid NLD. I have never been officially diagnosed with NLD, but I believe that I have it. I have horrible visual-spatial skills (for example, I still have great difficulty telling my left from my right), and my verbal IQ is much, much higher than my performance IQ, the main symptom of NLD.

As for the echolalia, people with high-functioning forms of autism like Asperger's tend not to have the type of echolalia that is characterized by repeating other people's words/sentences. Ours tends to be what is called delayed echolalia, and it mostly comes in the form of reciting lines from movies and/or TV shows, like how you said your niece did with the Disney movies. I still recite movie/TV quotes, practically every day. It's a good activity to keep away boredom.
-GatsbyLuvr1920-

IBBETSON · 03-07-2008, 11:39 AM

I HAVE A SON WHO HAS ASPERGERS & HAS A WONDERFUL MERMORY IT MAYBE THAT SHE FORGETS BECAUSE SHE IS OVERWELMED WITH CONFUSION AROUND HER IF SHE IS NOT IN THE RIGHT PLACEMENT SHE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO FILTER OUT WHAT IS GOING ON AROUND HER & SHE GETS CAUGHT UP IN EVERYTHING MY SON COULD NOT SKATE FOR A LONG TIME BECAUSE HE HAD TO BE ABLE TO FILTER OUT THE LIGHTS & MUSIC & SIGNS THAT HE HAD TO READ EVERYTHING THESE CHILDREN ARE VERY SMART BUT SEEM TO LACK COMMEN SENSE THEY ARE VERBAL BUT NOT ALWAYS ON TOPIC. THEY ALWAYS HAVE A SKILL OR A NATUARUL KNOWLEDGE OF SOMETHING MY SON NEVER FORGETS ANYTHING MY PROBLEM IS I NEED TO KNOW HOW TO BUILD ON THESE SKILLS TO HELP HIM HAVE a INDEPENDENT FUTURE

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmanion

Thanks for your insight. It is especially valuable since you've experienced this stuff first hand! Frankly, I'm not sure if what she has is Asperger's, high-functioning autism, or something completely different. All I know for sure is that she has pretty serious functional impairments (eg can't remember which bus stop she needs to get off at to get home, gets lost in her own neighborhood, suffers from chronic exhaustion and naps almost every day after school, etc) and is not getting the help she needs because of some arbitrary labeling issues. She is the sweetest-natured and most accomodating young lady that I think you hit the nail on the head--she goes to tremendous lengths to fit in (probably why she's so tired) and that ultimately hurts her in getting the help she needs.

She is also very, very small for her age. She developed normally in all other physical ways, but is noticeably short--around 4'10"--in a family of tall Nordic ethnicity. Is short stature associated with Asperger's/autism? I've wondered if she has some sort of undiagnosed genetic syndrome that might account for all of these issues.