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Old 04-09-2004, 06:33 AM   #1
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MelissaMay HB User
Angry Failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

I am looking for info on BMP fusion, and what to expect with surgery. I am scheduled to have this surgery the first week in May. I have undergone two surgeries in the last month and a half, in which I was to receive a partial disc replacement in Germany. The first surgery we thought was successful, then found out that the prosthesis had slipped out of place and was sitting on a nerve sac. The second surgery to remove and replace it was also unsuccessful. If you are thinking about this surgery at all I would be happy to give my insight and opinion. I am the first person this has ever happened to, so don't throw away this option just because you read this. I have now chosen to have a spinal fusion with BMP, a total disc replacement here in the US was my other choice, but I am quite afraid to do that for several reasons, and will expand on those reasons if anybody expresses interest. I am 26 yrs old and have had chronic back pain for 2 years. Had a L5 S1 dissectomy, and diagnosis was L5 S1 heniation and DDD. I know only have part of my annular disc, as the nucleus was removed to put in the prosthetic disc. Any information would be helpful.

Last edited by MelissaMay; 04-10-2004 at 03:39 PM.

 
Old 04-10-2004, 05:17 PM   #2
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Dwayne3 HB User
Re: failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

We'll MelissaMay, My heart sincrely goes out to you and people like you. I had spinal fusion in 1987 and am now sufferring the effects of that. The back remains a very contourversal subject for many orthopedic doctors. I've had one doc who told me surgery was not an option for me, while another wants to do two fusions which one was done way back and failed! They cannot promise the outcome which complicates our decission making process! I've been struggling for along time with pain and trying to find out the way to go. I've recently checked into a surgery new to the U.S. , but has been done in europe with great success! It's not yet FDA approved, but they are doing some surgeries at mostly research type hospitals with a selected few approved by the FDA for trial studies. It's called the DYNESYS SPINAL STABLIZATION TECHNIQUE. They say with this system, It stablizes your spine and allows the disk to repair itself. I'm checking into this for myself and so far, It seems to be incouraging to say the least. Check the web to see who in your area my be doing this study now. I've sent all my info and am awaiting FDA approval for myself. May GOD Light your life and send you in the right direction! I wish you the best! I know how discouraging these problems can be. Good Luck!

 
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Old 04-11-2004, 09:28 AM   #3
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MelissaMay HB User
Re: failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

Dwayne3
Thank you for the info, I will definitely do some research. Although I must admit I would be VERY leery of doing another surgery that is not FDA approved and still in study phase, because of what happened to me already. I wish you the best of luck. What type of fusion did you have previously?? I have heard that the BMP fusion has good recovery statistics. Keep me posted on what happens.

 
Old 04-11-2004, 03:09 PM   #4
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Dwayne3 HB User
Re: failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

MelissaMay, I had a fusion about L4 to t-11. I also had rods put in my back which where supposed to be for stability. One rod is slipped out of place, one rod is broken and thanks to the fusion that failed, I now have Grade1 Spondylolisthesis at L5-S1. I had no idea that this had taken place until about two years ago when I started suffering from bad back pain! I'm now out if work and was told by one doctor that surgery was not an option and by another that if he did surgery, he would replace the old hardware with a newer version and I would more than likely have to have a morphine pump. It's scary thinking about the newer proceedures, but europe has been doing this with much better results than the U.S. for at least ten years now! I had a fusion which I was told they used my own bone for the proceedure. These newer proceedures don't really seem too risky to me considering the ones that are approved by the FDA that have failed both in you and in me! Any decission in this matter either way is a difficult one to make as far as I see IT! I wish you the best in whatever decission you make and like I said before my heart really goes out to you! Good luck and may you let GOD guide you!

 
Old 04-11-2004, 03:31 PM   #5
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injured betty HB User
Re: failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

[QUOTE=Dwayne3]We'll MelissaMay, My heart sincrely goes out to you and people like you. I had spinal fusion in 1987 and am now sufferring the effects of that. The back remains a very contourversal subject for many orthopedic doctors. I've had one doc who told me surgery was not an option for me, while another wants to do two fusions which one was done way back and failed! They cannot promise the outcome which complicates our decission making process! I've been struggling for along time with pain and trying to find out the way to go. I've recently checked into a surgery new to the U.S. , but has been done in europe with great success! It's not yet FDA approved, but they are doing some surgeries at mostly research type hospitals with a selected few approved by the FDA for trial studies. It's called the DYNESYS SPINAL STABLIZATION TECHNIQUE. They say with this system, It stablizes your spine and allows the disk to repair itself. I'm checking into this for myself and so far, It seems to be incouraging to say the least. Check the web to see who in your area my be doing this study now. I've sent all my info and am awaiting FDA approval for myself. May GOD Light your life and send you in the right direction! I wish you the best! I know how discouraging these problems can be. Good Luck![/QUOTE]

I searched the net for a site about that technique and what I found was kinda disconcerting. There was a site in regards to how much money it was making, and who they sold to, a site on where they teach it and a site about the procedure. This procedure must be a well kept secret or in its infancy. Usually, when you search the net, especially with Goggle, there are literally hundreds of thousands of sites dedicated to a subject.

Before I tried this one I would have to see WAY more data on it

 
Old 04-11-2004, 07:24 PM   #6
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Dwayne3 HB User
Re: failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

InjuredBetty, I'm not trying to push anything on anybody. I'm only offering other methods that are out there. I've been a back sufferer for quite a few years and am only interested in a solution. Whatever someone chooses is and can only be their decission. Texas Back institute is one of 14 research centers now using these various methods that I've spoken of. Like I said there are at least 13 other states that have research going on now under FDA trial study basis. This is new here, but has been used in europe for at least ten plus years. It has shown very promising results and considering I'm now suffering from failed back surgery syndrome due to our older methods. Personally I have nothing to loose and everthing to gain. I've been told If for some reason It didn't work, fusion Is still an option. As anyone knows fusion at It's best can and has been proven to cause more problems with other levels of the vertabrae as I now expierience. Along other things. This decission as I've said has to entirely be up to the individual. But It's good to know we now and hopefully in the future will have other options if chosen. May GOD lead your path!

 
Old 04-11-2004, 07:35 PM   #7
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Re: failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

InjuredBetty, One thing I didn't mention was the fact that the hospital considering me for this is not going to charge me a dime If they approve me for this. It's under FDA trial studies and they will handle all charges concerned! I wish I could give you the site to go, but this board dosen't allow that. Most of these hospitals doing this are major research facilities through out the U.S. and are well known for their acheivements. Hope this sheds some light on this subject. May GOD be your light !

 
Old 04-11-2004, 08:25 PM   #8
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larryp HB User
Re: failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

[QUOTE=injured betty]I searched the net for a site about that technique and what I found was kinda disconcerting. There was a site in regards to how much money it was making, and who they sold to, a site on where they teach it and a site about the procedure. This procedure must be a well kept secret or in its infancy. Usually, when you search the net, especially with Goggle, there are literally hundreds of thousands of sites dedicated to a subject.

Before I tried this one I would have to see WAY more data on it [/QUOTE]
Betty,
If my memory is correct the DYNESYS procedure was highly pushed in the "BURTON REPORT" which I thought you were impressed with.
Prayers,
Larry
__________________
1990-Myelogram=L4-5 LAMINECTOMY.1998-Myelogram,Discogram,CTscan=L 4-5 FUSION w/BAK cages. 2002-Prolotherapy injections. 2003-April-MRI Lumbar spine=DDD,bulges,arthritis,low disc height,Physical Therapy.2003-May-MRI Thorasic spine=Two herniations displacing nerve roots.2003-July-Nerve blocks/epidurals; 2003-August-L5/S1 FORAMENOTOMY.2003-October-Lumbar Discogram=2003-December-L5/S1 FUSION w/BMP/LT cages. 2004-Jan-Pain much worse than before surgery. CTscan & L1/L2 nerve block & Myelogram.

 
Old 04-11-2004, 08:48 PM   #9
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larryp HB User
Re: Failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

[QUOTE=MelissaMay] I am looking for info on BMP fusion, and what to expect with surgery. I am scheduled to have this surgery the first week in May. I have undergone two surgeries in the last month and a half, in which I was to receive a partial disc replacement in Germany. The first surgery we thought was successful, then found out that the prosthesis had slipped out of place and was sitting on a nerve sac. The second surgery to remove and replace it was also unsuccessful. If you are thinking about this surgery at all I would be happy to give my insight and opinion. I am the first person this has ever happened to, so don't throw away this option just because you read this. I have now chosen to have a spinal fusion with BMP, a total disc replacement here in the US was my other choice, but I am quite afraid to do that for several reasons, and will expand on those reasons if anybody expresses interest. I am 26 yrs old and have had chronic back pain for 2 years. Had a L5 S1 dissectomy, and diagnosis was L5 S1 heniation and DDD. I know only have part of my annular disc, as the nucleus was removed to put in the prosthetic disc. Any information would be helpful.[/QUOTE]
MelissaMay,
Before BMP, bone fusions required a bone graft either from the patient or another source. BMP was developed to avoid this. I had an ALIF with BMP in Dec. 2003. I'm not sure what happened but my cages (hardware) are loose and I will be having PLIF surgery with rods and screws with a bone graft taken from my hip on April 13. You can find info on the Web.
Hope this answers your question.
Larry
__________________
1990-Myelogram=L4-5 LAMINECTOMY.1998-Myelogram,Discogram,CTscan=L 4-5 FUSION w/BAK cages. 2002-Prolotherapy injections. 2003-April-MRI Lumbar spine=DDD,bulges,arthritis,low disc height,Physical Therapy.2003-May-MRI Thorasic spine=Two herniations displacing nerve roots.2003-July-Nerve blocks/epidurals; 2003-August-L5/S1 FORAMENOTOMY.2003-October-Lumbar Discogram=2003-December-L5/S1 FUSION w/BMP/LT cages. 2004-Jan-Pain much worse than before surgery. CTscan & L1/L2 nerve block & Myelogram.

Last edited by larryp; 04-11-2004 at 09:53 PM. Reason: typo

 
Old 04-11-2004, 10:14 PM   #10
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injured betty HB User
Re: failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

[QUOTE=larryp]Betty,
If my memory is correct the DYNESYS procedure was highly pushed in the "BURTON REPORT" which I thought you were impressed with.
Prayers,
Larry[/QUOTE]

yes, I am impressed with The Burton Report and all of the links and articles that are in it. I went there today and spent two hours following the links.

I didn't see that procedure in the report, but then there are different issues as it seems to be a periodical. I will have to go back and search for it. It would be interesting to read about it.

I am not sure that anything is being "pushed" in that publication. It is more of an informative site and a place where you can get a point of view from a doctor who is not out to advocate meds as an end all or surgery as an end all.

Your signature seems to fit into the picture that he paints of the *failed back surgery syndrome*. I had no idea what that even meant until I read that publication. Not something that I ever want to experience but if I did, I am not sure that I would try a new procedure that is being done in experimental trials. I would go to the source, Europe and get it done by someone who is very experienced at it.

As the saying goes, nothing comes for free.

 
Old 04-11-2004, 10:30 PM   #11
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injured betty HB User
Re: failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

[QUOTE=Dwayne3]InjuredBetty, I'm not trying to push anything on anybody. I'm only offering other methods that are out there. I've been a back sufferer for quite a few years and am only interested in a solution. Whatever someone chooses is and can only be their decission. Texas Back institute is one of 14 research centers now using these various methods that I've spoken of. Like I said there are at least 13 other states that have research going on now under FDA trial study basis. This is new here, but has been used in europe for at least ten plus years. It has shown very promising results and considering I'm now suffering from failed back surgery syndrome due to our older methods. Personally I have nothing to loose and everthing to gain. I've been told If for some reason It didn't work, fusion Is still an option. As anyone knows fusion at It's best can and has been proven to cause more problems with other levels of the vertabrae as I now expierience. Along other things. This decission as I've said has to entirely be up to the individual. But It's good to know we now and hopefully in the future will have other options if chosen. May GOD lead your path![/QUOTE]

I know that your back hurts. I sympathize with you. I also know that most people will do most anything when their back hurts. I know that there is a point where I think that I can't stand the pain anymore and I try new things. I chased back doctors and solutions for a year now. I think that I have finally gotten a diagnoses, but then what they said that I had is rare and I have it on both sides, unheard of. Synovial cysts.

You do have something to lose. You could be a statistic. You could come out crippled for life. There is always that possibility. Or, you could die. One of the checkers at the store where I shop has a husband who had back surgery. He had to turn around almost immediately and have it redone. Now he suffers from failed back surgery syndrome. The patient in the next bed was not so lucky, he died, so there is that.

Just remember, even though you don't have to pay, nothing comes for free. When you are part of a clinical trial, you are a guinea pig. Since you are part of a trial, if they blow it, are you signing a release? I would check into that part as well as checking into how many of these this doc has done. It is a teaching hospital, right? I would not want anyone learning on me. It would be different if it was a finger, or a toe, but you are talking backs here, spinal cords, the central nervous system.

There are sites on the net that address the issue of central pain. Reading a few of those might help you understand what could happen. Central pain is for life.

[COLOR=Red]major research facilities[/COLOR]

See, that part right there scares me. They are doing research on the patients. How many hours of sleep did the news say the interns and residents are getting these days? I would not want them near my back.

I didn't think that you are trying to push anything on anybody. I was just concerned when I went surfing the net on one of the largest surf engines, Google and it only came back with the Quarterly Report on how much money they are making on this, and a few other sites on the research facilities, but no sites dedicated to this procedure. So, even if they have been doing it for years in Europe, which I believe you that they have been, no one is writing about it in Journals and posting it on the net. Is it in JAMA? just curious.

I really just wanted to know about it, not trying to argue

When I was trying to find out about Prolotherapy, as I wanted to research it, I came back with thousands of articles to read about it. That is why I was surprized that there were so few in regards to the treatment that you suggest.

truce?

 
Old 04-12-2004, 12:13 PM   #12
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Dwayne3 HB User
Re: failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

InjuredBetty, I'm not nor will I argue anything concerning Back surgery techniques. In the medical field the back still is and still remains a very countraversal subject. One orthopedics opinion varies from anothers as I've expierienced! And I've suffered from failed back surgery syndrome with the medical field using FDA approved methods! I'm not going to debate the merrits of fusion verses the DYNESYS SPINAL STABLIZATION SYSTEM. It does however seem to me that fusion in my opinion has not proven itself either as there is and still remains a lot of failure rates concerning this! Yes, I agree and apprecciate your concern for people willing to try something different. The dangers of possible death apply to either technique which makes it scary to do any thing. Back surgery is serious bussiness and the only one that can make the decission is the person having it done. Fusion has it's statistics of complications as well as death too! The doctors actually doing these operations are qualified and well trained for the biggest part. And yes, If I decide to have this done, I will ask all the proper questions and weigh out all the information available as any one should. Thank you for your concern, but in life we get no guarauntees! We do what we have to and hope for the best! May GOD be your sunshine and light up your days upon the earth!

 
Old 04-13-2004, 12:00 AM   #13
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injured betty HB User
Re: failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

Dwayne:

After reading injured betty's post on The Burton Report I decided to educate myself. There is a whole section on failed back surgery and how to correct it. It says that most failed back surgery is due to the doctor not knowing what he is doing and the failure to address laterial stenois. They have found that 97% of failed back surgeries can be attribued to this.

that report is good for late night reading

 
Old 04-13-2004, 05:43 AM   #14
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flyonthewall HB User
Re: failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

Dwayne,

I looked into Dynesys and the facility in PA said they would be billing me for everything! I was shocked! Since my insurance won't pay for trials.... What crack did you crawl through to be told you wouldn't have to pay for anything?
fly

 
Old 04-13-2004, 10:43 AM   #15
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Dwayne3 HB User
Re: failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion

flyonthewall, I didn't join this forum to be insulted. I have been talking to one of the most prestigious research hospitals in N.C. I inquired of payments! They told me they would file through my insurance company and they said my insurance more than likely would not cover this. However they told me they could and would have sponsorships that will pay for this proceedure in it's entirety. I'm not an idiot! I do my research and you better believe if I so choose to go through with this, I'll know who is paying for It. This forum is only good for support and sometimes information that may be of value to those with an open mind to new technology. Everything has to start somewhere. Thank GOD there are those that believe in advancement in the medical arena or we'd be no where and there are those willing not just to take one physicians word for everything, but are willing to do thier homework deligently to resolve thier medical issues. As I've said before and I continue to say, whatever decission is made has to be made on an individual basis. We are talking serious business when It comes to the back! If you can't talk to someone without an insult, please don't waste mine or thier time. Life is too short for this kind of behavor! May GOD show you the way and enlighten your path!

Last edited by Dwayne3; 04-13-2004 at 10:43 AM.

 
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