hi bionicwitch, i am right with you i dont know how long it has been scince you had your op, what is your pain like?
It has been nearly 2 years for me and im in more pain than i ever was (old pain plus new)
What does your neuro surgeon have to say? have you consulted new ones?
I really cant offer you any advice as i am stuck between a rock and a hard place at the moment not knowing where to go or what to do either.
I have been told that further surgery at the moment will not benifit me at the moment i have nerve damage that is unfixable and will keep deteriorating .
But i am here to listen to you and offer support.
rachelmc
Hi ya'll
I had a fusion in June. The fusion itself was good but the nerve damage and such is so bad that I am in the boat with all, you know the one that came without the paddle I went yesterday for a consult for the SCS and am waiting for approval from insurance for the trial. I can't wait to get there> I know it is not for everyone and may not be for me, but I will not know til I try it . I have three little kids and after 12 years, I guess I can I can keep trying.
Good luck to ya'll
shelley
hi shelly can u please tell me what scs is please as im from australia and i dont think i have heard of that.
im about will ing to try anything as like you i have 3 little kids.
thanks rachel
Hi Bionicwitch! I'm sorry to hear that your fusion failed. I'm not sure what they do after that. I know of a couple of people who have had the surgery again, and have fused well after the second surgery. I think each person is different though, and you should definitely talk to your doctor and get a second/third opinion. Good luck!
Hi,
This is the first time that I am posting to this board. I have been lurking since I became a member. I was recently told that the fusion ( L4 - S1) that I had in 1983 never took on the right side. The part that bothers me is that I had a decompression lami in Oct. '98 and March 2004 and nothing was EVER mentioned. Go figure!! I am presently being followed by 2 pain management docs.One of them has been following me prior to my last surgery and the other will be putting in a SCS,soon,I HOPE. The SCS doc went over to India to help the tsunami disaster victims. He did put in the temp. SCS in Dec and I had VERY GOOD results. I went to the shrink mid January for the eval for the insurance company and now am awaiting my "due date." I am only 45 y/o and have lived with back pain since I was 12. I am hoping that this SCS works. Should it not; then my last alternative is the implantable morphine pump.
I look forward to the support that I can give as well as receive.
Marianne
BTW, I know that many of you ask about med success and failures but I haven't read anything about alternatives being suggested in lieu of meds(reiki,acupuncture,massage therapy,guided imagery,deep breathing,meditation,Tai chi,TENS units,prayer,etc...). Meds are not the only answer when you have to be concerned with liver and or kidney damage. Alternatives can be the solution. Just a thought...
I am so sorry about the failed fusion. I am healing from my first one (l4-S1) just two months post op and hope I do okay. I am 27 and I'd really prefer not to have another! I wish you the best and hope you all get some kind of pain relief.
Hi Rachel
the SCS is the spinal cord stimulator, it is a implant that is put in that is sort of like a internal TENS unit, it uses electrical impulses to fool the brain about the pain, it is mainly for nerve pain in the limbs, I am hoping it will help the hip and leg pain I am having. I am 34 and really hoping for a difference.
shelley
It is sad to hear that you had a failed fusion but it happens. Did they use bone paste or an actual bone? If they used bone paste, then you still have a good chance of getting it done again, this time using a piece of your illiac. They usually save this option for cases such as this.
The first try, they usually use your own bone marrow, mixed with BMP, and then wait and maybe a piece of cadaver bone. If this fails, they go in and take a piece of your illiac and use that. That is the gold standard in fusions, but they hold out on it until the end.
I saw a rating system on fusions. If they only do cadaver, your chances of fusion are very low. If they use your own marrow and mix it with BMP and cadaver the chances are much better, but if they go all out and use your own bone, then fusion usually works.
Hi,I hate to say it but welcome back.I'm so very sorry to hear that your fusion failed.It just isn't any fun is it.
I do know exactly how you feel as I am a failed fusion also in the same location.I have been dealing with mine for over 20yrs, but the last 3 have been awful!
I do hope that we will be able to offer you some comfort and support.Hang in there at some piont something just has to get better,we all just have to have HOPE!At least that is what I try to keep telling myself.Take care,Heather
Thanks to EACH of you for your informative and supportive replies!
Heather: hard to believe you've been able to endure this for so many years..as you know each day is a struggle.
Rachel: To answer your ? I had my fusion Sept 9th 2003. - I am unsure why your doctors are not proceeding with a revision if you have a non union? I hope your outcome is good and I wish you all the luck in the world - I too have exstensive nerve damage and realize it's non reversible but that is really the least of my problems - although the neuropathy is incidious the unstability of my spine is taking me to new levels of pain that I haven't experienced since waking in recovery after fusion. Since my fusion has failed the way the ns explained it all the weight is being dispursed to the hardware which was not designed to support it ~ and he is worried now about hardware failure
Shelly: BEST of LUCK to you!!!! ~ you have a VERY positive attitude!
IF your pain is primarily in your extremities I am sure the SCS will give to relief My pain mgmnt doc said I would not be a good candidate for this for luckily all of my sciatica is gone.
Maryanne: Sorry to hear you also had a failed fusion My failure appears to be the top? Top of graft is concave on films while bottom is flush and "appears" solid. Perhaps I missed it with so many replies, but what is next for you?
Mel1977: Hang in there - your definitely home free and the worst hopefully behind you ~ please be careful and NOT "Over-Do" this is the most important advice I could offer you 2mo post op
I go Tuesday 2/8 for bone scan and CT. Will have results when I see ns late that afternoon. He has all but told me that IF this confirms his suspicion that the only remedy will be another sugery
hi bionicwitch, i am right with you i dont know how long it has been scince you had your op, what is your pain like?
It has been nearly 2 years for me and im in more pain than i ever was (old pain plus new)
What does your neuro surgeon have to say? have you consulted new ones?
I really cant offer you any advice as i am stuck between a rock and a hard place at the moment not knowing where to go or what to do either.
I have been told that further surgery at the moment will not benifit me at the moment i have nerve damage that is unfixable and will keep deteriorating .
But i am here to listen to you and offer support.
rachelmc
Rach:
forgot some of your answers *grin
I DID consult with new Dr. Had to ~ after 4 yrs with other one ~ I FIRED HIM.
9 mo post of (from fusin) pain was steadily increasing and I was scared to death - I did what I thought I should and informed him of my concerns and bluntly asked him IF I was "as good as I was gonna get?" or could I possibly still be healing? and he SCREAMED at me, I WAS ASKING HIM UNREASONABLE QUESTIONS OF WHICH HE HAD NO ANSWERS TO! I said, "Well if I can't ask YOU then WHO do I ask??? Doooooooh - I told him obviously it was a waste of my time having driven the 90min drive to see him and I left. Never went back. I am again communting to see new Dr for NO DR in my county would touch me! I am in Central Florida and my new Dr is Bernard Guiot. He is the Director of Spine at the University of South Florida College of medicine. Among his other specialties he is supposed to be quite the expert of fixing other Dr's screw ups
Illiac was not used.
Cadaver was.
As much as I dread this added procedure I too believe it may be my best option.
Although I shall probably know what my future (surgical wise) lloks like on Tuesday - Do any of you know if a 360 is the norm or yeilds the best results? This is yet another huge fear - So far both my surgeries have been posterior?
Hi Bionicwitch
I love that name!! My doctor is also one that does spine revsion as well you know helping those of us who were "touched" by a doctor that said everything was fine even when we said it was not. Well I had a surgery in I thing 95 and 99 and still had lots of problems and the doc. said "everthing looks good you should not have pain" until I found this guy TX Hunni knows who I am talking about, he is top notch at trying to fix the so called unfixable patients. Anyway after spending all of my 20's in misery I found him and he did do the 360 fusion in June . I had the BMP and he did not use my hip for the fusion. Anyway I had exploratory surgery and a decompression ofL3 and L5 on Jan 11 to see where all this hip and leg pain was coming from and it is that incidious nerve damage that you spoke of. So do NOT give up hope , so of my posts have been when I have felt there would never be a better day, but now I have another chance atleast I woke up this morning and my neck hurts so bad from the herniated C6-7 that I have had injections on and I think oh crap when will this stop. Then I come here and find all my other buddies who are suffering with me. You know the old saying "misery loves company " I am sorry your here, but happy that we have more people to share with. Good luck and keep posting.
shelley
Hi BionicWitch,
As for your inquiry as to what is next for me... I am awaiting word,this week,I HOPE, from one of my pain management docs. He will be implanting the SCS permanently. He feels that he can help me.I have been told by him that after I made the choice to go ahead with this procedure that he feels that I have made the right choice. Should this not work then we can implant the morphine pump.
I did go to an ortho spine specialist who was the one who told me that the fusion did not take and that he could put in some pedicle screws but it would not resolve the pain that I am having. Another option was a 360 but I have already had 3 surgeries and I have resolved with myself that this is a road that I will not take again. I tend to make alot of scar tissue. Therefore how many times does one keep going back???Excuse the pun!! I am only 45 y/o and am HOPING that this gives me some relief. The thought that stays with me is that things could be worse and I take one day at a time.
I had cadaver and am doing very well. I think it would depend on the individual person, wouldn't it??
Mel, if they just used cadaver bone and didn't use any of your own marrow, then your chances are not as good as someone who had their own bone used, harvested from their illiac crest. That is the gold standard and saved for last or for people with good insurance. This is what I have read and have been told by the Neuro who did my husband's surgery.
Cadaver bones are bones that are cut from donors and shrink wrapped and kept in refrigeration until they are needed. It is not live bone. Unless they take some of your bone marrow and make a paste of it and put in in the cages, there is no prompt for the bones to fuse. There is a lot of material out there on the different fusions and why they do what they do. It all depends on money and general health conditions.
Didn't you say that they did not use cages either? I would be asking my doctor why he did the procedure the way that he did it and why he chose to only use cadaver bone.
I am sure that you will be fine, but I still would be asking.
Most failed fusions are due to the person's overall health, way of life, and the procedure used. The ones that are done with the person's own bone, although it is way more painful, has a much higher success rate.
You would think that they would have at least used sponges and BMP with the cadaver bone.
hi bionicwitch, i am right with you i dont know how long it has been scince you had your op, what is your pain like? 
I went yesterday for a consult for the SCS and am waiting for approval from insurance for the trial. I can't wait to get there> I know it is not for everyone and may not be for me, but I will not know til I try it . I have three little kids and after 12 years, I guess I can I can keep trying.
Alternatives can be the solution. Just a thought...
Re: former member w/failed fusion 
My doctor is also one that does spine revsion as well you know helping those of us who were "touched" 
So do NOT give up hope , so of my posts have been when I have felt there would never be a better day, but now I have another chance atleast 
Re: former member w/failed fusion 
