I have been gone for a while now,I am back with new Questions...I went today to pick up my records to head off to a neuro Doctor....The results of their findind are as follows,Contained posterior annular tear at L5 S1,into the central canal and touching the ventral aspect of the thecal sac,and disc displacement of L5 s1...Does anyone know what this means,I live in alot of pain and have been since 1995...Daily life has not been the same since then..Lifting standing or walking for periods of time causes alot of pain...I have had in the beginning injections, alot of injections infact,Therpy,and then 6 years later went for neucoplasty and a discography with no results,So now I am off to see a neurosurgeon...Does anyone have any idea if this could mean surgery...Thank soo much for your help and advice....
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Hey there! I don't have any advice but I am going through the exact same thing you are.After 4 steroid injections, 3 MRI's, 2 Discograms and 1 nucleoplasty, I am out of work, stuck in bed fighting for a answer. My diagnosis was L5 annular tear and the "orthopedic" seems to think chronic pain management is my only answer I am 28 years old and refuse to "manage my pain".I tried that and it did not work I am fighting a workers comp case to see a neurosurgeon and get a mylegram and cat scan. Please if there is anyone out there that has had success in a situation like this, please help. I feel stuck and I need some advice and direction. The medical community I am in is not doing that!
Yes I Know all to well what you are going through,I have had so many injections that I know have to contend with the tissue that is dying at the injection site.They Gave me like 17 or 18 in over a year and a half....WAY TO MANY! 1 is to many really,I found this out way to late.I have suffered in pain way to long and I am tired of being conservative.So I am off to see a neuro dr tomorrow at 3.I am going with my mind made up that If it isn't what I want to hear,I will find one who will hear me...I told the dr who was giving the injections they wasn't working and tried it the dr's way to have my tissue to dye.I have a Huge hole in the Siactic injection site.I have Had enough and been to conservative way to long.I just wish I knew what this means and if anyone has had surgery with positive results for this.I wish you all the luck in the world.
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I took a chance on a non-op procedure called an IDET (less painful than a discogram!). I had an annular tear at my L3-4 that took 3 years to ID (5 MRIs didn't find it).
I know many experience failure with IDET (as with almost any option, it seems), but I had the procedure last July and haven't felt the disc since the day after. I just felt I had to pursue all my options that kept the disc prior to fusion and the others that remove it.
Insurance unfortunately rarely pays for it, but going from feeling 85 to 35-45 is pretty darn good and worth the expense. I owe my mother for the rest of my life...the woman is really a SAINT. She offered the funding on Mother's Day!
I so didn't want to ask, but she was so willing since my dad has a separate back problem (AS - not hereditary) that aged him too quickly. It was actually marked for my sister to put a downpayment on a new house, but she told me she'd tell mom to let me have it.
I'm sorry - I'm now getting a little veklempt (sp?) writing that. I can't tell you how lucky I feel that my family could help, and that it's been successful so far. They are just the best!
Misery & Mel1977 - Here's the goofy emotional effect of my meds!
I have Had the discography procedure without help and nucoplasty done on this disc and nothing has helped Thus far,But I am about up for anything at this point...If they told me to stand on my head a hour a day I would ask where the nearest corner was lol...Ty for the post I am really happy to know I am not alone...Thanks for the post
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Rampage,
I'm glad the IDET surgery helped your pain. Ialso had the IDET more than 4 years ago. It helped my back pain for about 3 years and then for some unknown reason it stopped helping. Although I haven't had a repeat discogram the doctor's can't find anything positive on a repeat MRI that would indicate the reason. Question-did you have numbness, pain, or tingling in your feet prior to the IDET? Do you have it now? I've got lots of numbness and pain in my feet.
taape - i've had that "ultimate failure" thought in the back of my head since day 1. that's probably why i'm happy to remain a couch potato! total fear that it won't keep. the numbness and tingling i experienced in my feet focused on my middle toe, which was the resulat of a separate problem (sciatica). although, i do get numbness in my legs periodically, especially when my legs are crossed at work...do you think that might be similar to what you're experiencing?
so hard to say how everything in interconnected, etc. coming on 5 years, and still don't know what my outlook will be. don't do anything though, so i'm keeping my fingers crossed. i'll have to keep this in mind, and act accordingly. depressing, but i still thank you for the truth!
lilmissprissy72 - so it sounds like they know what you have...what has your dr. said your best options are? the non-op is the idet (which keeps the disc, but taape says may have issues later), and the ops are fusion (which my research and quietcook's experience identify as the best of the fusions) and artificial disc replacement (very new, but the success may be even more dependent upon the surgeon than even the others).
i doubt this helps you, but i really hope the best for you. please keep us posted.
Hello I am back from seeing the Neuro Dr I was refered to,OMG I am soo upset,He walked in Listen to me talk about what has been going on for the last 10 Years (since 1995)so it took like 20 minutes to explain,Then ask me to walk across the floor Then ask me 1 ? What bothers you more your back or the numbness and tingling,I said well the pain bothers me more then the tingling,He said well you Have certainly been through enough but I don't have any answers for you,Then he got up and Headed for the door,As he was leaving I said well can you tell me what is wrong and,he cut me off and said I will write the dr that refered you a report and pointed me toward teh lobby,So that was all I found out,I am soo upset At this dr,He was very rude to not even answer one of my questions,I didn't even have a chance to mention surgery,Or my options or anything......
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You have sure had your share of lousy doctors. But don't give up...keep looking. I will probably take a few hits for this, but personally, I prefer orthopedic spine specialists. Every neuro I have seen has had a "GOD" complex and they all acted like I was boring them. None of them wanted to answer questions. The attitude was that they shouldn't have to answer to me...I should do as they say. Well, being who I am, that doesn't sit too well. I found my OSS in l996, after 2 surgeries and numerous injections to various parts of my ailing body, he is still as attentive and kind as ever.
That's my 2 cents...see if you can find an OSS; maybe you will have better luck.
Rampage,
I don't think that's it's a real good idea to hang out on the couch because you want to have your muscles in your legs strong as well as in your back. I try to keep moving because if I stop that might be the end of my physical abilities. It is a scarey thought that more injury could occur or the heating process undue itself. As far as the numbness. I think sciatica can cause shooting pains but I'm not sure about nunbness. I think that numbness in the thigh can be caused from disc tears/degeneration. If I lay on my side long enough like at night in bed my thighs get numb, it's scarey. But mine is definitely in my feet middle toe, big toe and both feet, plus the heel and side of the foot. I can't remember how long ago your IDET was but my surgeon said that improvement can still be expected up to 6-7 months after the procedure and not to give up.
Does anyone know what this is or what is wrong.....The results of their findind are as follows,Contained posterior annular tear at L5 S1,into the central canal and touching the ventral aspect of the thecal sac,and disc displacement of L5 s1...
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Does anyone know what this is or what is wrong.....The results of their findind are as follows,Contained posterior annular tear at L5 S1,into the central canal and touching the ventral aspect of the thecal sac,and disc displacement of L5 s1...
The annular tear is in your lower lumbar portion of your back. What this tear involves is just that: a rip in your disc.
Standard solutions I've had to review based on my similar diagnosis:
-steroid injections (most likely an epidural, which is painful), but the max is 3-4/year
-IDET, which is an outpatient non-op procedure where a wire is inserted and heated up in the hopes that the slight melting of your disc will seal the tear
-fusion, which involves removing you disc and the places 1 of 4 "replacements" that I know of : mechanical (metal plate), hip graft (remove portion of hip), bone bank (cadaver bone used), and BMP (Bone Morphogenic Protein, places sponge in location with amino acids that tell surrounding cells to regrow bone)
-ADR (Artificial Disc Replacement), which is similar to a hip replacement that has a "ball-and-socket" connection
Taape - Trust me, I am not a total "couch potato" (as much as I'd to be!), but I am focusing on being careful. I've got legal issues surrounding this whole thing, so don't want to put myself in a position to create any new injuries! But, I do hear ya and agree, and am planning on slowly increasing my level of activity. I walk some, and do a lot of stretching, plus I can actually do light housework. I figure it's a start! Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated!
Thank for the the replay back,I have tried the injections actually That is all i have been living on for years...I Just recently quit having injections because they were cause the tissue to dye in my back..I have a huge hole about the size of a coffee cup where they injected me so many times...I have had like 15-20 in the last year and a half.I had no idea They were not doing any good ,but harming my body.Until I went and read upon them..Rampage what is the thecal sac,Or anyone if you know please feel free,Is this the nerve,I Have had neucoplasty procedure done as well last March,SO I am now arriving up on a year anniversary in a weird kind of way,with NO HELP....I don't have any spine spealist in my area,and only 1 neuro dr,SO I am off to Louisville Ky,to try and find someone who will listen this time.Again Thank you for all your post.
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Hello sadie,I am not having surgery Hun,They have excused me once again,but this dr topped The cake,I went to see a neuro dr last thursday...He walked in ask me 2 ? To walk across The floor,Then asked me what was worse leg pain or back pain.I told him in beginning it was back pain back about 7 years ago.Now It is both.The leg pain kills me.Then I told him I had Neucoplasty, discography,therpy,injections,I told him the last 10 years in about 20 minutes he listened...I thought WOW He listened.Then he said well you have tried everything.I said Oh yeah I have a hole IN my backfrom the injections,He asked me to stand up looked at it and said Well...It is just a hole It could be worse it could be bigger.This hole is about the size of a coffee cup..
He then said There is nothing I can do for you,When I asked what was wrong he said I will write the dr that refered you a note.I said Excuse me can you tell me what is wrong with me,what does the report mean,He said follow me,I thought he was gonna take me to a room with a diagram,He pointed me to the lobby..That was my whole entire visit.Needless to say I left cring and hurt yet again by a rude uncaring dr.Maybe one day a dr will come along and offer me something new.Until then That is the hope i hang on to.
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I am utterly SHOCKED at the behavior of these "professionals"!!!
You should really look into changing drs, and if you think it's the insurance, changing that (if possible). You could always try a female dr, or a DO. You might have better luck.
NOBODY should be giving you 15-20 shots a year...did they ask you to sign any forms? Who would ever tell you that's okay? Especially w/the hole in your back!
You have had most of the diagnostics, but none of the treatment! You may have to bring out the "other" personality and MAKE them do their job! Oy Vey!
Thecal sac (or dural sac) surrounds the spinal cord from the base of the head down to the pelvis/lower back. Do you have an impingement or tear?
If I can help you search for someone, just let me know...given the rules of this board, I won't ask for information other than metropolitan areas within an acceptable distance for you. You should NOT have to settle for this...
Let me know if I can help...I'm here for ya. Keep plugging away.
Insurance onlys pays for me to see drs in this state,Not sure if I can tell you where that is or not.Glad you told me It was illegal too lol....
I had all these shots over about a 1 1/2 and I never had the hole there so I didn't know the damage it was doing until one day,My daughter said MOM what is that hole in your back....So I am not sure how long it had been there.But is growing and getting bigger...I am scared it is gonna go into my bottom and leave me cheekless...
They told me I had a contained annular tear,compression on thecal sac,and disc displacement L5 S1... I have no idea what this means,You would of thought it was a stupid question when I asked the dr,He totally ignored it...And pointed me to the lobby..As i stated I thought he was taking me to a diagram,but he pointed to lobby.I was so upset I was literally shaking and had to get out of there.
I am so tired of this battle,I have been fighting for 10 years to have some kind of treatment done,and I get therpy,injections,chiro,Disco,Neuoplasty ,Now I am at a stand still Again.I am Tired so physically tired...Everytime I get so worn out from doing what the say and getting now where,That I quit deal with the pain,Then gear up again to do it all over...I just wish I knew what it all meant..I am soo tired of my feet burning,Back hurting,Knees are killing me...and pain down my leg...Also My knees and feet are turning purple when I am on my feet for over 20 minutes.I am only 33 and I just feel like i have no voice...Thank you for help I greatly appreciate it.
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Last edited by lilmissprissy72; 03-03-2005 at 06:59 AM.
Does anyone have any advice 
