I went to the OPS Wednesday morning for my injections. I have never had injections like this before. Was it a Nerve Block?
My Surgeon doesn't believe in sedation for this, since he said he needs to know EXACTLY what I am feeling.
He used a local, then went in approx the L5 area, he got the needle in so far, then it hit a nerve and I screamed and almost jumped off the table. He called for more Local and injected it into the site and the pain stopped immediatly.
He then said he was ready to inject the meds (Cordisone, Anesthetic & Steriod mixture). Next thing I felt was a severe burning as if someone poured acid inside my left leg all the way to my toes and burned so bad I pushed my face into the pillow screaming. [B](What caused the severe burning pain?)[/B]He did that area 6 times, one right after the other. He offered to stop, but that would of been a waste. The next 2 injections were done, where the same thing happened, but it was on the right leg this time.
I said: You don't use any sedation? WHY? He said he needed to hear me saying EXACTLY where the injections were causing the pain, so he knew he had the EXACT nerve.
When he was done, I told him, that if he EVER had to do this to me again, I will come to the Hospital on strong pain meds from home. He said: FAIR ENOUGH. I could see him and the Nurses felt really bad for me and really hated to see me in so much pain, and yes he used the Flouroscopy, he actually called for more pictures than the old PM EVER did! Remember after HER injections, I was curled up on the couch and unable to move for 3-4 days?
Well, with him, after all the suffering and I was rolled back on my bed, I was feeling numb and weak in my legs. By the time I got back to my OPS room I could walk a bit wobbly, but within 10-15 minutes I was walking normal with no pain or weakness. I am home and almost ALL my pain is gone.
The suffering was worth it, However if there is anything left over in a week or 2 and I have him do this again. I will be loaded with my pain meds from home and VERY sleepy.
But I can tell you this much.
Going from pain so bad in the Sciatic Nerve I could hardly walk, couldn't stand or sit or lay down and sleep due to severe pain. I now have none.
I didn't have to wait for anything to KICK in. They said the full results will be in 1-2 weeks as the medicine works it's way around.
My return appt with him is on the 28th of this month, so if he has to do anymore, he can do it right way.
I could swear he was pouring acid into a hollow leg, THAT'S how bad it hurt.
He called it a : [B]Transforaminal Lumbar Epidural Steriod Injections[/B].
But I never felt anything like this before.
My Diskogram was NOT this painful!!
Don't get me wrong, he did give me 2 Ativan Sublingual (under the tongue) beforehand, but for me being on 5mg of Xanax a day, it never worked, Actually it did nothing at all, he said it was because of the Xanax.
Has anyone out there gone through this? IS this the same as a Nerve Block?
When I asked if it was a Nerve Block he didn't actually SAY anything, just shook his head, yes.
His Nurse told me this could last one day, one week, one month, one Year, or forever. The swollen back is already going down and only HALF of what it was when I went in there.
As soon as I laid on my stomach, I was in severe pain, I yelled out that I could not lay like this, my back and legs were in severe pain. He yelled for his Nurse, LET'S GET STARTED NOW!! Then to me: Honey, We are going to do a couple locals to get you comfortable. HE DID and I WAS.
That is, until the ACTUAL procedure began. The first time I screamed as I mentioned above, I felt the skin punture, then push through what felt like fat, then a pop into something painful, then the needle hit a Nerve, at that point he had to stop and inject ALOT of Local, it felt like he was pouring it into a large hole, but it worked immediatly.
I finally got some sleep last night without waking up in pain.
Since the post above this one, I called the Hospital's OPS and talked to one of the Nurse's who was with me.
She said my Surgeon NEVER using anything to calm patients down, However if I talk to him at my Follow-Up on the 28th, she said the time I might need something done, He can do the IV sedation and let me sign a waver or something.
She said from the way he talked he was afraid of the fact I have to take 5mg of Xanax a day, he didn't want to add other meds, since they are all Benzopines, he was more afraid of over dosing me.
But as the Nurse said, I have been on Xanax for 12 years, have had several surgeries including him. And even a small amount of something to help me relax and stop at least SOME of the pain would not be out of line or asking too much, and not enough to cause any problems.
But that I really need to explain the Xanax to him and MAKE him understand that I have built up a tolerance to it now, and should of been given SOMETHING!
[B]BTW[/B] AFTER I was given the Ativan at 10:30am, he was called into an emergency surgery and did not get back to me until 4pm, so even if the Ativan DID work, it would of been long wore off by then. I really don't think he realized that.
I am scheduled to have one of these injections on the 27th of this month. My dr. told me they don't like to use sedation, because they want to know everything your feeling. You could get foot drop etc., easier. This I was told was not a garuntee you will not get it, but certain sensation they will stop. All I know is I am nervous. Well, hopefully this will work a long time for you I hope it does for me. I have done the surgery thing and all and still have gone know where. You want to scream, you know what I mean? If, you have another one let me know how it goes or if the first one is working for awhile. I will try to let you know how mine goes. Nicole
Everywhere I read online, said they DO use something to calm the patients. By me jumping like that and moving around could of caused a serious problem.
He did have them give me 2mg of Ativan that works fantastic on someone who normally does not take Benzopenes.
But since I do. It did nothing. Lets say, it did work.... He got called into an emergency surgery before he got to me. So a bit over 5 hours passed before he came back. By then the meds would of worn off anyway.
I know he felt bad, and so did the nurses in the room. But there was nothing they could do for me since he doesn't use an IV sedation. If he did, they could of given me something more to calm me down and ease up the pain some.
So if you don't normally take Benzo's, then you will be just fine.
I really don't understand why he said I could take my own pain meds before coming, yet he couldn't give me anything? Was he afraid of a lawsuit in case he sedated me too much?
But seems to me, hitting the Nerves and jumping like that, would of been more damaging than a little sedation.
I'm so sorry stardust, im sure it sucked but hey, ya got something out of it right? Lets just hope it stays that way. Good luck! I'm almost willing to go through whatever it takes to eliminate this hellish pain. (knock on wood)
BTW, do you know what the difference is b/w what you had and a regular ESI ...or is it the same thing more or less?
It is different.
My Procedure, when I took off the bandage. He went in from the upper buttock/hip area instead of the L5 as I originally thought. They use a small needle to get to the site, then a large one with the medication that has the point bent like the *L* shape and has to push that through to the Sciatic Nerve, move it sideways into the nerve and inject medication that burns like fire all the way through to the toes.
Leaves the needle in, unscrews it and screws on another syringe with medication and continues, etc.
A regular ESI, I always went though with nothing at all, they use IV sedation, but they blew my veins and I never recieved any meds. Piece of cake, I had no pain with the regular ESI's, just uncomfortable until the meds were injected, then I felt a cooling sensation over the spinal area, as if someone poured cool water inside and cooled it off. But after I would get home, I was in some pain for 3-4 days, since I fired her and have someone else do them, that doesn't happen at home anymore, I think she was just an idiot.
hey hazelnut! I have the same thing on the 27th too. Tomorrow is the dreaded meeting with the needle. I get it at 10:30 am . I'll wish us both luck! I'll be back to tell you about the follow up. I hope one shot will do the trick, ya never know.
Hazelnut & Abrie25,
Sending all my Best Wishes for your Big Day . I hope all goes well and your both pain free for a very long time.
I see my Surgeon Tuesday Morning, maybe he can answer some of my questions for me.
I will be thinking about you both .
I feel your pain. I have had this triple series of injections for the past year and a half. At first I tried having them with just a local to kill the pain but soon discovered that it was too painful to endure without a sedative. On my next few injections I had an I.V. sedative and it was still painful, but tolorable. When I was approved (HMO) for my third series they told me they wanted to give me a prescription and have me take my sedatives orally. They wanted to give me 4 mg. of Ativan, which might have worked on some but not me. I explained I already took 4 mg Ativan daily and it would not be sufficient. I said I wanted I.V sedation and be willing to pay extra for it. In the end I got the I.V. at no cost. I believe they will give everyone an I.V. if they are insistant. I will bet you that everyone who is being ask to take oral sedatives belong to an HMO. What they are trying to do is save more money, by having you buy your prescriptions rather than them providing the sedatives. Thye steroid Injections worked great for one year. I received a lot of relief from my pain, however, my last series of injections gave me no pain relief at all. The doctor explained that this was common. These injections will work only for so long for some folks and others continue to get relief. It is my understanding that once they stop working for you the odds of them working again in the future is slim.
OK, that brings us up to the point when I first found this web site. I was, and still am in severe pain, and I ask for help in my first posting, "I am looking for Hope". It was in the replys to this post that I first learned that steroid injections are the worst thing in the world for my condition. The steroids accelerate deteration of the discs (and bones). So for a person with DDD this is really a bad choice for long term relief. The information in this paragraph I learned from "Quietcook" & "Carol632".
Most all of the information I've posted here, I had to learn the hard way. I am currently in the proceess of cancelling my HMO insurance and going back to Medicare with some supplemental coverage. I am so tired of being provided no quality health care. I am sick and tired of waiting months and months to squeeze a penny from the HMO. I am sure I need back surgery and I'll never get it in my HMO ( I think they would rather put out a hit on me).
Anyway, I hope your condition improves and your pain can be subdued. I hope some of this information helps someone.
Hi Abrie25, Stardust, and Gregory,
To Gregory first. I hope you will have better insurance soon and you will be able to get the surgery that you need. I also hope it works for you!
To abrie25 and stardust,
How was your injections? Stardust, how was the appt. w/ your surgeon? I hope you get some answers. I had my ESI yesterday and it hurt, but it was bearable. And at this place they use NO sedation. So, even if you need it to relax a little, oh well . The doctor was very nice and I had confidence in him when I first met him. But the nurse that did the sterilization and was there when he did the procedure was very, very cold. She just stood there and held up the wall. She did some other things too. I just hope I do not have her next time. I have a few of the side effects and they should go away in a few days. I hope these work for you and for me. I go to my PM on 7/13 for a follow-up then my next injection is Aug. 1st. Let me know how your all doing! Talk to you soon. Nicole
Wow! I had a series of 3 lumbar spinal injections and had nothing but a great experience. They inserted an I.V. and gave me Versad (which is similar to the "date rape drug") it knocks you out for a very short time and when you wake up you remember nothing. I had no discomfort form the proecedure at all. Although the lumbar injections failed to help my back problem, I was not sorry I tried them at all. The procedure you had sounds a bit barbaric. Take care
My ESI Injections always went well too.
The other injection I posted about, the Transforaminal Lumbar thing? Well I saw my Surgeon today for my Followup and he said the severe burning was normal, the NON Medical name for it is a: [U]SELECTIVE NERVE ROOT BLOCK[/U]. He said it is a totally different procedure than the regular ESI that I was used too.
Guess that's why I was so confused about the whole thing. I will answer more posts a bit later, I am babysitting an 8 month old and have my hands full for now.
[B]BumpooBilbe[/B] Thank You, I didn't think anyone on this site knew what I was talking about, now maybe other's can understand why I was screaming into the pillow! My Surgeon only numbed the skin in a small area, he did not give me any other local until he hit a nerve and I jumped halfway off the table knocking the blood pressure cuff and the Blood/Oxygen thing on my finger off. Isn't it [U]MORE[/U] dangerous to do the Selective Nerve Root Injections without anything and us patients jumping from severe pain? Yes, if he does another one the end of July or first week of August like he is thinking about (My other thread-Radicular & Topamax) I will DEFINATLY be BEGGING for the IV sedation, HOWEVER, he does NOT believe it ANY sedation at all. It was more like a Torture chamber that took a good 20 minutes once the injections began.
If he wanted you to take meds orally, that would explain when I told him after the procedure, that the next time I will take some pain meds from home first, and he very nicely replied "Fair Enough". But I think they do that so if anything happens, they are not responsible.
Ativan might as well be Baby Asprin for me as well. I am not an HMO, I have Medicare & Tricare for life and between the 2 of them, everything is paid 100%, so it must have something to do with the dangers of a sedation & this procedure, What do you think?
Yes, I talk to Quietcook & Carol and I know the dangers. I also have severe DDD & DJD. If you could read my other thread I mentioned above, It says I had the fusion of the S1 & L5 on February 2nd, but I ended up in severe pain a month later and could no longer walk, he went back in on May 4th and found a piece of bone stuck into the Sciatic Nerve, he removed it and I was fine, but the pain began again, he thinks the pain should go away on it's own within 6 months, However My gut feeling says it's a pinched nerve from the second surgery, However I cannot get him to order the dye test to find out.
[B]hazelnut[/B] My ESI Injections always went well too.
The other injection I posted about, the Transforaminal Lumbar thing? Well I saw my Surgeon today for my Followup and he said the severe burning was normal, the NON Medical name for it is a: SELECTIVE NERVE ROOT BLOCK. He said it is a totally different procedure than the regular ESI that I was used too.
Guess that's why I was so confused about the whole thing.
[B]anna_629[/B] Yes, I have had Versed several times, pronounced "Verse-said" AKA The Amnesia Drug AKA Milk of Amnesia. It works on me too. But not this procedure, they won't even consider it. I sure wish they would. The end of July if he does the Nerve Root Block again, Think I might try begging for it.
Stardust: Hmm, ya know, my procedure burned quite a bit, i mean it was pretty damn painful, but he gave me more local and injected it at a slower pace and all was well. I tend to forget how much something hurt when something immediately takes it away. But i do remember grabbing the sides metal doohickies, i needed something to squeeze. Im thinking maybe I had something like yours. I dont know b/c when i asked the nurse she acted like a know it all and said this is the only kind of steroid injection there is. Ill get my answers on my follow up july 11th. I'm going to ask exactly what the difference is between a lumbar nerve block and just a ESI. I swear we should ALL get medals for what we go through.