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Old 01-30-2008, 03:11 PM   #1
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Prolotherapy

If you only have pain on 1 SI joint and ligaments should the Prolotherapist inject both side ligaments with Prolo? Wouldn't that make the good ligament more tight and still keep your pelvis off?

 
Old 01-30-2008, 04:22 PM   #2
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Re: Prolotherapy

I have had A LOT of prolo, and for me it did not work. I barely had a diagnosis and it was "shotgun" in the sense that my doc just palpated and prolo'd tender areas. I ended up with a lot more pain in the long run and had things prolo'd that weren't necessary.

I had my SI prolo'd and, in my opinion (and this is just me) you should only prolo the side that is hurting. I had my good side prolo'd and ended up with pain on that side for a few months (I think the doc hit an area he shouldn't have). Prolo is somewhat risky because unless your doc is using fluoroscopy, you are really trusting him/her to know what they are hitting. If your right SI is painful/unstable, I would just prolo that area. If not, you run the risk of making the other side worse and/or paying for prolo that you don't need. Some say that only the long and short posterior sacroiliac ligaments need prolo (not the sacrotuberous and not the iliolumbar) and others say prolo each and every ligament that supports the SI. Some say you can get prolo'd in the "wrong posistion" and others say it can't happen and you will get better. It's a crap shoot. Some have been totally healed by prolo and others have not.

I usually don't express my "opinion" on most matters and prefer to only offer support but I wanted to say something here because I truley believe that prolotherapy, though it is said to be "safe" it is actually very risky and you run the risk of making yourself worse off. The "palpation" method for diagnosis is pretty sketchy and hardly scientific. There are alot of areas on my body that are "tender" but they don't need prolo. If it your left SI, then just prolo that area in order to stabilize it. Also, be very careful about the solution that is being used. Dextrose is the common solution, but sodium morrhuate is often used as a stronger solution. Some people swear by the sodium morrhuate but, for me, it was the worst thing I have ever had put in my body. It all depends on how your body reacts to it and you don't know until it's done.

I am very hesitant to offer too much of an opinion because I don't want to give bad advice. But I feel VERY strongly that one needs to be careful with prolo and be conservative. I can only speak from my prolo experience and what happened to me was I had alot of things prolo'd for no good reason and in the end, I am no better and a little worse. It helps to have a SOLID diagnosis, too. It limit's the "shotgun" method of prolo where you walk out with everything prolo'd even if some areas weren't a problem.

Okay...sorry to ramble...my answer would be, stick to just the SI that is hurting. If the other side is stable, then why prolo it?

May I ask, who is your prolo doc? I see that you are in Dallas and I have heard of a few docs out there that seem to be good.

Julie

 
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Old 01-30-2008, 07:47 PM   #3
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Re: Prolotherapy

Thank you so much for our reply. I'm kinda confused on what to do. I have this pain in my right sacrum/tailbone area which has been there for 3 years now. I also developed a functional leg-length discrepancy where my right leg comes out longer than my left. I've tried the works (chir, PT's, Accupunture). I've been holding off on Prolotherapy as a last result.

My Dr. I visited is named Michael Ellman in Mesquite. I hear from previous Drs. he is good at prolotherapy, but i just can't get comfortable with the fact that treatment would be to inject both sides of SI ligaments. I mean my left side doesn't hurt. He mentioned something about that was the way he was taught as well as many western/european Drs. I can't seem to find any research on articles if this is true. He does do this under fluroscopy. I have plans to have Novocain injected in only the right SI ligament and my L5 to see if it takes the pain away. He says if it does I would be a candidate for possible positive effects of prolotherapy. I still wonder if that well help structually....

Lisa

 
Old 01-31-2008, 08:25 AM   #4
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Re: Prolotherapy

I think it is a good idea to start with the lidocaine first to see if the pain goes away before he starts putting prolo solutions in there. I also think that flouroscopy is a good idea, too, because I would rather the doc know exactly what he is hitting rather than you, as the patient, trusting that he knows where the ligament/bone/intraosseous junction is. When I went into my first prolo session I walked out of there with so many injections in so many places...and most were for no reason at all. Lidocaine first makes a lot of sense. A whole lot.

I think the hard part is getting up the guts to say to the doc that no, you do not want your good side prolo'd. This is easier said than done, especially when you get in the office and are nervous and this doctor is in front of you saying, "hey, I'm a doctor and I know what I'm doing." I always went to prolo saying, "okay, THIS time i'm only gonna let him prolo this or that" and I ended up being a weenie and not speaking up and had so many areas prolo'd I couldn't count. You gotta speak up, it's your body, and just say that you want one side prolo'd. Easier said than done.

In terms of helping structurally, I just don't know. They say it tightens up ligaments and helps with stability...but it's hard to say if it is really true or not. Most of the evidence is anecdotal (though there are a few studies out there) so it's hard to say. I've spoken to some people who swear by it, and others (like myself) where it didn't do a thing. It's really you're call as to whether or not you want to try it. And, also, it's pretty expensive so that's a factor, too. I know for me I put a lot of trust into prolo and it didn't work out for me and that was disappointing. It's not a the miracle cure all for pain it is touted to be, but it has helped a lot of people. I wish I could give you better advice, but all I can say is it's up to you.

Lemme know if you have any more questions.

Take care,
Julie

 
Old 01-31-2008, 08:56 AM   #5
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Re: Prolotherapy

Hi Lisa, I have had prolotherapy in my neck which was very successful and lasted for almost a year. I am considering having my lumbar region done probably sometime in March. I know with my neck the used fluoroscope and did like this grid thing of something like 12 shots. ( do have the conscious sedation) It was pretty painful but that subsided in a couple of days and got rid of the grinding feeling in my neck plus my neck stopped popping. That popping thing was really hurting and made sitting at the computer for more than a few minutes very painful. The thing I like about this procedure is that they don't shoot drugs into you the use a solution like glucose and this helps produce more collagen which helps regenerate discs. Anyway just thought I'd let you know how it went for me. I am sorry if this sounds a little spacey but I haven't been sleeping much for a couple of days and the brain is getting a little sluggish. (LOL)
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:27 AM   #6
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Re: Prolotherapy

[QUOTE=deeannek;3419855]Hi Lisa, I have had prolotherapy in my neck which was very successful and lasted for almost a year. I am considering having my lumbar region done probably sometime in March. I know with my neck the used fluoroscope and did like this grid thing of something like 12 shots. ( do have the conscious sedation) It was pretty painful but that subsided in a couple of days and got rid of the grinding feeling in my neck plus my neck stopped popping. That popping thing was really hurting and made sitting at the computer for more than a few minutes very painful. The thing I like about this procedure is that they don't shoot drugs into you the use a solution like glucose and this helps produce more collagen which helps regenerate discs. Anyway just thought I'd let you know how it went for me. I am sorry if this sounds a little spacey but I haven't been sleeping much for a couple of days and the brain is getting a little sluggish. (LOL)[/QUOTE]

Hi - I'm looking into prolotherapy for my neck as well. I have a mild bulging on C5 and not too much pain but some. My neck feels weaker and I feel like my lower neck feels pressure and pain supporting my neck/head. I'm starting PT first to see if that will help, but my osteo recommended prolo and I'm interested in hearing how it went. Which doctor did you see? Thanks!

 
Old 02-13-2008, 11:17 AM   #7
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Re: Prolotherapy

My pain management doctor, Dr, C. Kochert does these for me. we do it as an outpatient procedure at the hospital. I am usually at the hospital for about an hour and half, then I come home and take a nap. ( I always do conscious sedation so I am pretty sleepy afterward. the first time I did the procedure it was very painful. I think maybe because I didn't know what to expect. I couldn't find much on the internet about it and I am very sensitive to any kind of pain. This procedure has helped my neck a lot! I am probably going to have to do it again soon because I am starting to have the popping there again. If you do this let me know how it goes, Dee
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:03 PM   #8
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Re: Prolotherapy

Hi all.

I can not offer comment on the prolotherapy other than I am versed in the process and whatnot.

Lisa, you mentioned you've been to Chiro, PT and accupunture. Have you seen anyone else, such as an orthopaedic surgeon? Has anyone done any MRI of your lower spine, just to make sure that your spine is normal and how was your SI joint pinpointed as the possible source of your pain?

Who told you that your one leg is shorter than the other and just how significant is it?

What made you think about prolotherapy?
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:21 PM   #9
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Re: Prolotherapy

This is what Shawley had done, I am pretty sure, and he is off ignoring all of these days. He has regained his life back and has been hunting and camping. My two cents is if you have tried everything else and nothing else has worked what have you got to lose? Just be sure to research like you are doing and I will certainly pray that it works for you if you should decide to move forward with it.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

 
Old 02-15-2008, 08:21 AM   #10
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Re: Prolotherapy

[QUOTE=deeannek;3440134]My pain management doctor, Dr, C. Kochert does these for me. we do it as an outpatient procedure at the hospital. I am usually at the hospital for about an hour and half, then I come home and take a nap. ( I always do conscious sedation so I am pretty sleepy afterward. the first time I did the procedure it was very painful. I think maybe because I didn't know what to expect. I couldn't find much on the internet about it and I am very sensitive to any kind of pain. This procedure has helped my neck a lot! I am probably going to have to do it again soon because I am starting to have the popping there again. If you do this let me know how it goes, Dee[/QUOTE]

Hi, thanks for replying so quickly! When you say painful...how painful? Was is the procedure itself or the recovery that was worse? How long were you in pain (inflammation) before it started to heal and the pain ceased? I don't have a ton of pain, but I think my ligaments are very weak, making my muscles do more work. I have a lot crunching noises in my neck and I just want to stabilize everything. I am scared about the pain (not so much the procedure) but the inflammation that is caused. Did you experience any dizziness or other issues after the procedure? Thanks in advance

 
Old 02-15-2008, 10:27 AM   #11
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Re: Prolotherapy

The procedure is painful. the use a fluroscopy and draw a grid on your neck. I think there were a bout 12 to 16 [I]targets[/I] and then the place the needle and they go real deep and so thats why it hurts. the next day you are pretty sore but that goes away pretty quickly and your back to normal. The only dizziness I noticed was from the sedation and it was gone after I came home and napped. I felt well enough to go camping on the third day after the procedure and was more active on that trip than I had been for quite awhile. This procedure worked wonders for me and so far I haven't heard anything negative about it. I have problems taking steroids so I try to avoid them. This procedure doesn't use any drugs except for conscious sedation so I prefer it. If there is anything else let me know. Dee
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Old 02-15-2008, 11:37 AM   #12
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Re: Prolotherapy

[QUOTE=deeannek;3443100]The procedure is painful. the use a fluroscopy and draw a grid on your neck. I think there were a bout 12 to 16 [I]targets[/I] and then the place the needle and they go real deep and so thats why it hurts. the next day you are pretty sore but that goes away pretty quickly and your back to normal. The only dizziness I noticed was from the sedation and it was gone after I came home and napped. I felt well enough to go camping on the third day after the procedure and was more active on that trip than I had been for quite awhile. This procedure worked wonders for me and so far I haven't heard anything negative about it. I have problems taking steroids so I try to avoid them. This procedure doesn't use any drugs except for conscious sedation so I prefer it. If there is anything else let me know. Dee[/QUOTE]

Hi again,

Yikes - it does sound painful. You felt better in 3 days? Wow! I read somewhere else, someone had it done and they were in a lot of pain for weeks. That's what I'm afraid of. I'm not really afraid of the procedure itself - ok, somewhat. What I'm afraid of is them hitting a nerve or spinal headaches, infection. It terms of better, how exactly did you feel afterwards? Was your neck feeling less pain, more stable, less neck noises? Not immediately, but within a month or so? Sorry to keep bothering you... I just haven't been able to find a lot of people with prolo testimonials - especially on the neck area. I'm not familiar with what your neck issues were before prolo. Thanks SO MUCH!!

 
Old 02-15-2008, 04:19 PM   #13
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Re: Prolotherapy

For me the pain after the prolotherapy was about the same as after a steroid injection. I hurt for a good24-36 hours than I felt better. After prolotherapy no more popping or sticking ( my neck felt like it would get stuck in a position and then to get it to move it would pop hard) Even my migraine headaches became less frequent. It has been awhile since I had the prolo and I think I may do it again sometime next month. My neck is starting to pop a little bit so to speak. Tell me about your neck problems. Have you had surgery or an mri to see what is going on? I had cervical fusion 2 levels in 2004 and my neck started acting up again and my neurosurgeon sent me to Pm to " Let her see if she could work some magic" and she did. Dee
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Old 02-15-2008, 08:11 PM   #14
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Re: Prolotherapy

[QUOTE=deeannek;3443593]For me the pain after the prolotherapy was about the same as after a steroid injection. I hurt for a good24-36 hours than I felt better. After prolotherapy no more popping or sticking ( my neck felt like it would get stuck in a position and then to get it to move it would pop hard) Even my migraine headaches became less frequent. It has been awhile since I had the prolo and I think I may do it again sometime next month. My neck is starting to pop a little bit so to speak. Tell me about your neck problems. Have you had surgery or an mri to see what is going on? I had cervical fusion 2 levels in 2004 and my neck started acting up again and my neurosurgeon sent me to Pm to " Let her see if she could work some magic" and she did. Dee[/QUOTE]

Hi Dee,
I had a whiplash and had an MRI done. C4, minor loss of disc height. C5 herniation to the right, not impinging on nerve root or spinal with small bone spur. Some loss of natural curve, signs of very early degeneration. I had someone do some manual work on me which aggravated the injury, and I feel like my neck is weaker. Not too much pain, it's more from my muscles trying to do all the work, so my neck and upper neck/shoulders will ache. I have grinding noises in base of skull and crackling noise when I move from left to right or bend head to shoulder. No one else can hear noises, only me. My range of motion is actually pretty good -- I had A LOT of stiffness right after the accident but not too bad now. I really feel like my ligaments must be really loose because my neck feels pretty weak. I had an osteo (recommened by my GP) suggest prolo but I'm afraid!! I don't want to get worse pain or issues, and the neck is such a sensitive area. Afraid of the inflammation after the procedure. The needles bother me, too, but I think I can handle it. The office where I may have it done said I'll feel like frankenstein for awhile -- I just hope it works. Thanks for all of your info!

 
Old 02-16-2008, 06:49 AM   #15
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Re: Prolotherapy

I think you are a great candidate for this procedure. It beats the alternative. My neck stuff started with a car wreck in the eighties. I let it go because it didn't bother me too much until it got real bad. I had pains shooting up and down my arms, constant pain in my shoulders and it hurt just to sit up. By the time I had an mri I had no spinal fluid in my neck, bone spurs and ddd- oh yeah and spinal stenosis. So I had to have the surgery. About a year and half ago I started having the popping and stiffness so I did the prolotherapy. I know it sounds scary but I have had many procedures and except for the initial pain of the procedure there was very little other pain, and that was only for a couple of days. And as I said before I am very sensitive to pain. I think if you try this you will be glad you did. I heard another member of our community had the procedure and he's out and about and before he was really hurting. His name is Shawley maybe you could search his posts and see how it went for him. Take Care, Dee
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