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Old 02-21-2012, 03:52 PM   #1
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What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram? Is this different than a regular 3T MRI? I've had a lumbar 3T in the past. I had back surgery over a year ago and another neurosurgeon suggests that we do this test, along with a Lumbar 2D Reconstructive CT to see why I'm still having pain complaints.

 
Old 02-21-2012, 07:24 PM   #2
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Re: What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

If the term "neurogram" is being used appropriately, it would be different from a standard MRI. The "T3" is just a technical term for the strength of the magnets in the particular machine.

Neurography was "invented" by Dr. Aaron Filler who is now located in Santa Monica, CA. It is similar to MRI but it is a stronger magnet that is used to image nerves, specifically. Within the past couple years Dr. Filler has licensed the technology so there are now facilities located around the US that offer neurography...but it is still a relatively unknown technology and is not widely available.

Whether this is what the neurosurgeon is suggesting or not, I couldn't say.

If interested you can find information on neurography on the internet.

 
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:33 PM   #3
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Re: What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

Tetonteri66, thanks for your response. I'll have to do some research and call my local 3T mri facility to see if they do the Neurography, or not. It was the Neurography word that threw me for a loop. I'll also do some more research online. Thanks again for your reply!

 
Old 02-21-2012, 07:45 PM   #4
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Re: What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

If interested you might look up Dr. Filler. He is an interesting, inventive person. I almost made the trek out to CA for an appointment with him when no one could diagnose my nerve pain...but finally got some answers closer to home. The Neurography Institute has quite an elaborate website with interesting examples of nerve MR images.

I know there are some places that are trying to do similar imaging and call it a neurogram, but I understand the technology is not the same, and is not as sophisticated.

What type of pain are you still in and what have you done so far to find some relief?

 
Old 02-21-2012, 07:56 PM   #5
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Re: What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

I will check him out. Thanks. I've had burning back pain only when I sit down since 1996 after lifting heavy stuff. When I stand I have no pain. Been to multiple specialists over the years and they couldn't help. 13 months ago after I began getting worse and pins and needles in my feet I revisited the doctors and ended up getting an L5/S1 fusion w/ instrumentation. Doctors say if I should be feeling better I should be after a year. A doctor out in Baltimore, neuro specialist, former head-honcho at Johns Hopkins invited me to come down if I'd like to do further studies to get to the bottom of the pain. He's supposedly superb at diagnosing spine pain. I've never had a Pelvic MRI study, so that sounds reasonable to me. I'm undecided at this time whether I'll pursue more testing now, or wait until next winter and give my body more time to recoop and heal from surgery. It's been a slow recovery, but I'm very active and doing PT, etc. and keeping a positive attitude. Just wish I could get rid of the nagging pain when I sit. I don't see any change now than I did before surgery, except after surgery I ended up with tightness in my left buttocks which I"m still trying to work out with stretching, etc... and I'd like to get that looser and see if it makes a difference before I jump the gun and pursue further testing, etc. Over 16 years of pain when I sit, this is nothing new to me. I keep looking ahead and focus on the positive, and what I can do now, not what's done in the past. I'm an exception to the rule. I've never met anyone with my same symptoms, over all these years and when I ask the specialists they admit that they haven't had patients like me... even the specialist I mentioned in Baltimore admitted he's only seen maybe 2 or 3 patients with this problem. It's been very frustrating to say the least. This all happened after graduating from college, so it's greatly affected what should have been the best years of my life. Thanks for your interest.

 
Old 02-22-2012, 06:38 AM   #6
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Re: What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

Thanks for mentioning the MR Neurography. I wish I would have been aware of this technology a year ago, before I had surgery. It may just be what I need to figure out where my pain is originating. I was up til 2 am researching. Thanks!!

 
Old 02-22-2012, 06:52 AM   #7
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Re: What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

If you found the Neurography Institute website, I found them to be quite helpful. Through the years, I have emailed them several times and received fairly prompt replies.

Filler also wrote a book which was my go-to reference book for years. I understand he is revising it and adding technology that wasn't available when it first came out. It is called "Do You Really Need Back Surgery?: A Surgeon's Guide to Back and Neck Pain and How to Choose Your Treatment."

It is especially valuable to people who are just beginning their journey with back problems -- covers everything from anatomy to various types of testing, surgeries, even insurance issues.

When I first learned about neurography, it was only available on the West Coast...but now places have opened up around the country, and in London. The problem may be whether insurance covers it...I never got that far in my investigation.

But I agree that it is very exciting technology!!

 
Old 02-22-2012, 07:26 AM   #8
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Re: What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

I'm here in Michigan and not sure if it's offered yet or not. I've been in contact with a Neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins and I believe Johns Hopkins does the Neurography however I don't think they are connected with Dr. Filler's institute. I've had a traditional 3T MRI in the past, but nothing called a Neurography and no Pelvic study.

 
Old 02-22-2012, 09:52 AM   #9
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Re: What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

Unfortunately there aren't any locations yet in most of the Midwest. I sent you a PM with the list of locations.

Have you gone to U of M Spine clinic for a "second" opinion? A friend of mine had a revision surgery about a year ago and I was helping her locate a surgeon. She is between Detroit and Ann Arbor...we discovered the spine surgeons in the greater Detroit area really tend to hang together. So many of them trained at William Beaumont Hospital. She ended up going to a guy who seems to specialize in cases no one else will take -- primarily reconstructions or revisions from other surgeons' failed spine surgeries....

 
Old 02-22-2012, 10:37 AM   #10
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Re: What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

Thanks. I haven't seen anyone at U of M yet. Can you find out the name of your friend's doctor at U of M?

Last edited by moderator2; 02-22-2012 at 04:10 PM.

 
Old 02-23-2012, 07:51 AM   #11
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Re: What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

Can you answer a couple questions for me? We may have gone through this before, but if so, I don't recall the answers.

You had a posterior L5-s1 fusion back in late summer, right? Was it your first lumbar surgery?

You are having continuing pain...but what I'm wondering is whether it is the same pain as prior to the surgery, or is it different, and if so, how?

Please describe your pain -- pretend you're seeing a doctor for the first time --what would you say?

Are you in the southern part of the start, or were you just thinking you could drove to U of M?

 
Old 02-23-2012, 08:09 AM   #12
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Re: What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

I had surgery in January 2011. So I'm about 13 1/2 months post op right now. I have discomfort / burning that builds from zero to unbearable when sitting down, which I've had for many years, which started after heavy lifting. I have no discomfort when I stand up, however I'll often be sore after sitting. The burning is centralized in my lower back, just about where my belt is. Ice is the only thing that provides relief. It's the same as prior to surgery, but I don't know from day to day what the status is unless I test my back out and sit for a while. At this time I can't see a significant change, but if so, it's so slight that I don't know it yet... that's what I'm hoping for. But doctors say that if I don't feel a significant improvement after a year, then it didn't work. One doctor I saw earlier this summer was extremely negative (I hate that) and he said if I didn't feel better in a few months my surgery was failed. On the other hand, I've been suffering for so many years, so I don't expect to heal overnight... it might take time. On the other hand, I want to get on with life, and rid myself of the pain. I'm a survivor of the pain, but it still interrupts my life and prevents me from doing what I want to do. I can't sit down to eat with friends, I can't sit down at a movie, social events, etc. Traveling is out too. Basically, I've been living my life standing up since '96. I am an exception, no matter what anyone says. No one I've met has the same symptoms. Many people have back problems and can't stand up for lengths of time. Others have a little sciatica and discomfort when they sit, but it doesn't seem to disrupt their life. The impact has been significant for me. I may have made a mistake with my last surgery, however there's no point in going back there. I must move forward, and continue to seek help. There has to be a specialist out there somewhere who has seen a patient like me before, or a specialist with the perseverance to get to the bottom of this, and figure out what's mechanically happening in my back when I sit down causing the burning. Enough said.

 
Old 02-23-2012, 08:10 AM   #13
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Re: What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

ps: A year and a half ago I started having pins and needles in my toes. It comes and goes. No leg pain.

 
Old 02-23-2012, 08:12 AM   #14
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Re: What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

Sometimes I do get a little weird nerve/achey feeling on the outside right lower thigh/above the knee. That's it. But no leg pain.

 
Old 02-23-2012, 08:52 AM   #15
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Re: What is a Pelvic MRI 3T Neurogram?

Hmmm, you're right....It is really unusual to not have leg pain (or pain in the buttocks, etc.) Am I correct that you don't have pain except when you sit?

 
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