Hows it going everyone. Today reach my 3 month mark for treatment and my Chiropractor suggested I go with Stretching Under Sedation/Manipulation Under Anesthesia. Just looking for some reviews, how was it, does it actually help, side-effects?
Procedure would be 3 consecutive days and Anesthesia would be given 3 times for about 10 min's a shot. I can only imagine waking up screaming.
Oddly, my Chiro said, indirectly, this would be on my reports under "surgery" and would look good for my law suit. Interesting enough, I want to be healed I don't want to under go Anesthesia for something that would be useless to me - that's not my style.
Any input, is greatly appreciated. This Tuesday I was going to schedule with my doctor the ESI so I don't know how this would work. Sounds like way to much going under to me! Scary thoughts
Last edited by Administrator; 07-06-2012 at 02:25 PM.
I would think there is a safer way to treat your issues.
By putting you to sleep, the chiropractor is indicating this manipulation would be too much to withstand if you were aware and awake. Since chiropractors do not have the full picture of what could be wrong with your spine, it seems to me that if you have some nerve involvement that this chiro isn't aware of, you could be risking permanent nerve damage and injury.
What are your other options for treatment? Have you consulted with a spine surgeon? What exactly are your issues?
The Following User Says Thank You to teteri66 For This Useful Post: blueoceans (07-07-2012)
Location: San Francisco, California, United States
Posts: 701
Re: SOS/MUA Manipulation Under Anesthesia
Hi there -- I was reading over some of your older posts, and it seems that you had a car accident resulting in damage to one cervical and one lumbar disc, plus a potential shoulder issue. You also indicated that your physiatrist suggested halting chiropractic care at one point.
Your focus on healing is highly commendable, and the chiro's suggestion that you undergo this procedure to benefit your lawsuit seems suspect. I don't know whether the chiro is for your lumbar or cervical issues, but you should be particularly cautious with cervical adjustments.
I would recommend undergoing the ESI first, before you do any more chiropractic care. The ESI is thought to have two effects: to mechanically push the disc material away from any nerves and to chemically bathe the irritated nerve. Since you are in the process of scheduling what is a fairly routine and accepted procedure, I would give the ESI at least two weeks to work its magic.
Also, the anesthesia for the ESI varies, but is typically a twilight-type experience. So, you will likely not be intubated, but will have an IV, feel very relaxed, go straight to sleep and wake up quickly afterward. Unless you are allergic to a medication, this type of anesthesia does not carry the types of risks that major surgical anesthesia does.
Thanks you two are the best lol. Teteri I have C4-5 & L4-5 disc bulges with C4, C5, and L5 radicupathy. Other than that, I also have Mild tendonosis in my right shoulder and traumatic myofacial pain syndrome.
The chiro does take his time, he usually just cracks my mid/lower back and my neck. My neck he does fairly slow and will take his time if I "tense up". I've been looking up the MUA and I get mostly bad reports so I am going to hold off on this for a few months if the pain is still here. Teteri you made up my mind and vividly scared the hell out of me . I want to discontinue chiropractor care I am just so uncertain about everything now-a-days I'm not sure whats working or not.
In the meantime, I am going for the ESI and TPI's - Hopefully I will get a scheduled date on Tuesday when I see my Physiatrist. I never looked forward to something so much, especially a Doctor's appointment no less. Thanks, you two, always sharing great wisdom making me feel better!
Thanks I have trouble keeping people's problems in my head...and some days I'm too lazy to go back and read through older posts to refresh my memory.
I know there are some good chiropractors out there, but as we all know, even the most highly trained spine surgeon has an unanticipated result from time to time. This manipulation just seems too dangerous to me.
My acupuncturist kept pushing me to go see her chiropractor, and I finally relented. This woman was very good, mainly because she understood her limitations. As soon as she had an inkling of what was going on with my spine, she wouldn't treat me any more. She understood that she could inadvertently do more harm than good.
Since you know what your spinal issues are, I don't see the point of being treated by a chiropractor. It seems to me that it might just be counter-productive to what the physiatrist is trying to accomplish. You might ask him what he thinks.....
You know, I didn't mean to scare you! ( I had to go back and read what I wrote to see what was scary!) I'm just a fellow spiney with a bit more life experience...but I do like to make people think twice and not just accept everything that the medical professional suggests without having a thorough understanding of what that "doctor" is suggesting, why and what the possible outcomes could be. After all, it's not his or her back that will be damaged if something should go amiss. We have to become wise consumers just as we would if we were buying a new car or something of great value.
What exactly is the Chiropractor trying to accomplish? Other than me hearing some cracks I don't ever feel better. However, my metacarpal somehow fell out of place and he did, pull, stretch, whatever he did, and the pain is almost virtually gone. Now that could've been him doing something or it was naturally going to get better by itself! haha
What may the Physiatrist be trying to accomplish? Are Chiropractic and Physical not suppose to be mixed together? I see my Physiatrist tomorrow and will be advising to go ahead with the ESI and TPI's.
I had my first IME today, 5 minutes, Psychologist. I don't understand the point of this appointment as he asked quick yes or no questions, mixed in with contradicting questions, and wouldn't really let me speak much. Seemed like a one way street doctor - would love to find out the results.
I'm actually looking forward to the Ortho IME, hopefully he wont be a banana head and give me a real second opinion on my options. That is, if I should even bring that up to him? Thoughts?
I gather an IME is some sort of evaluation. Is this for a workman's comp issue or something?
The epidural steroid injections are given in an attempt to reduce inflammation and reduce pain. Steroids can help reduce nerve and joint inflammation, and the abnormal triggering of signals from injured nerves. They are almost always a first line of treatment after someone has a back injury or "issue" such as a herniated disc, etc.
I don't personally know of too many doctors that have much use for chiropractors. Many have had to treat the outcome of a bad adjustment from the chiropractor.
Location: San Francisco, California, United States
Posts: 701
Re: SOS/MUA Manipulation Under Anesthesia
As I understand, chiropractors attempt to realign bones (mostly the vertabrae) which have been pulled out of alignment through injury or muscular imbalance. Good chiros also focus on nerves -- stimulation, impingement, etc.
I had one horrible experience with a chiropractor "fixing" my ankle, which had been injured 15 years prior. Left the appt on crutches.
I had one great series of treatments, with a chiropractor who did nerve stimulation and stretching (no direct adjustments), but was not covered by my insurance. This chiro was recommended to me by a physiatrist.
Finally, I had one intermediate experience with a chiropractor who loosened up my back muscles and adjusted my lumbar spine. I got decent relief of my nerve pain at first (2-3 days), but then the relief decreased to 1-2 hours. This last chiropractor also did a mid-back manipulation, which I am fairly certain caused my ongoing costochondritis, which is inflammation in the area between the sternum and a rib.
So, altogether a mixed bag, but certainly important to coordinate between the chiropractor and the doctor, and if the doctor nixes the chiro, then I would defer to the doctor.
My Physiatrist doesn't even wanna hear anything about the Chiropractor lol. I wish this pain will go away so I can stop seeing everyone every week.
Good news is, I scheduled an appointment for the ESI this Friday. I'm so wavy about this not sure what to expect, scared I guess would be the proper word. I guess unless I get some serious rare side effect it shouldn't really have any adverse effects right? I just hope it takes the pain away. When I told my DR I also feel the pain sometimes that is lower than where the bulge is he said that is completely normal.
I just hope I'm not being used as some science experiment. It has been 3 months, I still feel the pain in my lower back and it's not getting any better, the ESI is the right decision at this point, right? I don't know why I feel I need so much confirmation on this but I just want to see other peoples views. Felt like it was easier purchasing my car then it was agreeing to this shot lol.
ESIs a probably the most common procedure and a part of "conservative treatment" that most spineys go through on their journey to recover. Insurance carriers require it before agreeing to cover a spine surgery. You don't need to worry about being a science experiment, or something.
Like any new experience, there is some trepidation before the first injection, but, if you should need more, it gets easier. It really isn't a big deal. I think the idea of it s more distasteful than anything. I've had them with three different doctors, in three different settings. My first experience was in a hospital with lots of people in the room. The next doctor did them in a day surgery facility and I had a twilight anesthesia, so had to hang out in a recovery area for awhile afterward with a bunch of other patients. Then I switched doctors again. This doctor had his own practice by himself so it was more casual. He didn't believe in using a twilight anesthetic, so that was a new experience for me. The first one was a little scary but I soon learned to like his approach. It was a lot faster and I could drive myself to the appointment, didn't have to hang around too long afterward and drove myself back home.
Try to arrange your schedule so that you can take it easy for at least 48 hours after the injection. Doctor #3 required his patients to stay off their feet at home for 72 hours after the procedure. It maximizes the effect of the medication because it doesn't get used up as quickly in the body. When you are more physically active, the heart pumps faster, the blood flows more quickly and everything is metabolized more quickly, including the steroid.
Also be prepared for some new symptoms -- I was always wired for 24 hours. Once i became aware of this, I didn't bother trying to go to bed the first night as I would just toss and turn all night. I just resigned myself to pretending I was in college again, pulling an all-nighter...and I lay on the couch and read, watched TV, etc. I also get strange cravings -- usually for brownies, in my case. Some people get very hot or flushed feeling. All these symptoms are typical of a reaction to the steroid. By the second day, I was pretty much back to "normal."
Location: San Francisco, California, United States
Posts: 701
Re: SOS/MUA Manipulation Under Anesthesia
All four of my ESIs were with the same doctor. I got flushed all over for about three days. I had a headache the day of the ESI, but just went to sleep for the rest of the day and felt better when I woke up.
The lumbar ESIs were ineffective, but I had an extruded disc. My one cervical ESI was performed fairly quickly after the onset of symptoms (two months) and my disc was bulging but not torn open. (My symptoms with the cervical herniation were no less severe than my lumbar herniation, even though the imaging results were so different.) I have now had 90 percent relief for 13 months. To me, the results are worth the small, short-term side effects.
15 hours until the ESI. I am literally shitting bricks. I am trying to take the edge off but NOT THAT EASY lol. I can't eat or drink anything after 12 I believe. My stomach is hurting me and I don't know if thats from worrying or what but my lower back sure does hurt me right now . I hope I'll be posting here tomorrow.
Pubbies- i had two esi's for sciatica and back pain. The first one was a nightmare. The doc did not give me anything to help relax me and he must of tapped a nerve. I literally came off the table. Slight relief for maybe two weeks. The second esi the doc decided to give me valium about 40 minutes before the esi and i was so relaxed that i didn't feel to much. Unfortunately, the results were minimal. I tell you this not to add to your fears, but so that you can go prepared knowing to ask for something to help you relax. It does make a difference. Take care and good luck.
Location: San Francisco, California, United States
Posts: 701
Re: SOS/MUA Manipulation Under Anesthesia
Good luck -- hopefully we will hear from a much happier pubbies tomorrow, or maybe Saturday. The guy who did my ESIs only did them on Fridays, I think knowing that folks will take it easy over the weekend.
LOL ok well I just got home from the ESI. What the hell was I stressing? If I knew it would've provided this much relief I would've done it last month LOL. I feel great. I feel a very minor discomfort/soreness but honestly sure does beat the pain I was going through sitting on that hard chair in the waiting room! After that "spaced out" feeling went away I felt amazed - I guess the next few days you'll be hearing the results .
My doctor came in after and asked me how I was doing and said I had some confessions while under Anesthesia LOL? I asked my doctor what I said and he was like, the other doctor asked, "How much reefer do you smoke?" and I replied "A lot". Simply told my doctor its much better eating/smoking pot then taking all these addictive pain killers. He smiled and told me next time, 2 days prior don't do it as it could cause a reaction.
Haha I really gained a lot more respect for my doctor now, definitely feel more comfortable that I can speak more freely with him. Not that I lied about not doing anything, but it was more of don't ask don't tell type of deal. What I would like to know is what led them to ask me these questions, or I was I randomly just blurting crap out.
What should I be doing the next 2-3 days? Icing the area 3 times daily for 10-15 mins, drinking a lot of fluids, what else? Thanks so much. I would've never agreed to this if it wasn't for this Health Board ! Thanks you everyone for your support!!!
Location: San Francisco, California, United States
Posts: 701
Re: SOS/MUA Manipulation Under Anesthesia
Icing for discomfort and taking it really, really easy.
Glad to hear that you got such good relief from the ESI. I had the same type of relief from my cervical MRI, and it's still going strong 13 months later. Once you see your doctor for the post-ESI appointment, I would recommend PT for strengthening the core muscles so that you can stabilize the area and prevent future problems. If the pain comes back (hopefully not), you can always repeat the ESI, especially with such good results
Hmm. Wonder what else you might have said...they must have really had you under, that you don't remember.
Just be sure to stay reclining and off your feet for as long as possible, up to about 72 hours post injection. It helps to keep the steroid from dissipating before the body has a chance to use it up.
I hope the injection works for you. That would be a happy outcome.
Yeah I don't remember anything, I remember my last words before I, "fell asleep". I woke up in another room that the procedure was done in, that was a bit confusing lol.
I've been hanging out in a recliner chair for the majority of the time, I even sleep it in . If not I'm walking around or sitting at my desk on the computer. I've iced it the Fri/Sat and Sat night and today I'm starting to take a warm wet cloth and placing it in the area for 10-15 minutes.
About an hour ago when I went to the store, getting out of the car I had a paralyzing pain in my right back-right calf. I could not walk on it, I sat right back down. After a minute I tried to stretch it out and it went away a few minutes later. I still feel resemblance of it. As for the back pain, very minor discomfort but nothing like before. Now I'm actually more worried about the leg pains that keep happening as it did before.
SweetPea how many ESI's did you have in the cervical that it's lasting 13 months? It's still so early post injection that I don't know what's really going on, but I do have a lot of relief lower back wise. No pain bending over brushing my teeth, picking something off the floor, etc.. Just random minor flare ups.
I am still doing PT, Massage, Acupuncture, and Chiropractic treatment. Honestly how I feel right now I want to cut off some of these, what are your thoughts? PT/Massage I would keep and get rid of the rest. Unless I'm getting the cupping therapy from Acupuncture I don't really ever feel better. I will discuss this with my DR on Tuesday but any insight before would be great! Thanks again everyone
. I want to discontinue chiropractor care I am just so uncertain about everything now-a-days I'm not sure whats working or not. 
. I hope I'll be posting here tomorrow.
