Daughter Home A Week ~ Need Help Evaluating Progress - Bipolar Disorder Message Board

goody2shuz · 03-14-2006, 10:31 AM

Hi, Everyone

Thanks for getting me through Erin's hospitalization....I wouldn't have been able to have done so with all the wonderful support offered here.

Thanks You!!!

I am rather concerned and would like some input from you wonderful people. Erin has been on the Abilify 5mg and Celexa 5mg daily for a little over a week now. She started both full doses on 3/6/06. My husband and I, while we do not notice a whole BIG change in Erin, we DO notice that when placed in confrontations she does not get as frustrated or agitated as she use to.....so that IS an improvement. Her mood, though is sullen and sort of mopey. She comes home from school and when asked how her day was she says the same dull "okay". We sit down and have a snack together with barely a word said.....getting any info is like pulling teeth.

She quietly leaves the counter and goes up to her room which is spent on the phone with friends or listening to music. Any effort on my part to get her out to do something such as a puzzle or to go out to the store is refused.

The first few days she neglected to do everything on her agreement in terms of chores....I mentioned when I first saw this happening that she had a few days grace period being that she had some readjustments to make but after the weekend the contract would be in full effect. I must say that for the most part she is sticking to it.

The only time she initiates conversation is in terms of our rethinking the part on her contract regarding her BF. Seems that her BF "is not allowed" to come to our house to see her (which was agreed upon by all parties including her BF and his mom prior to her discharge). He is not calling her when he says he will and I see Erin's dispappointment in that....she seems desperate to have him in her life to the point of making all the phone calls.....only to see her further disappointed when they are not returned. I gently reflect back how that must make her feel and also point out that if a boy really likes you he would go out of his way to make you feel extra special. She takes the disappointment out on us. She wants to be able to see him in town with other friends around....at first I was against this but I am thinking about reconsidering this since she has one day after school to go to a friend's house or grab a bite to eat with friends as well as weekend nights so long as we know who she is with, where they are and there is parental supervision.

We see a different psychiatrist tomorrow.....my question is how much of an effect are we suppose to see with the meds???? And have we given it enough time or do we need more?? I attribute my daughters "down" state to what's happening between her & her boyfriend. When I asked her how SHE feels the meds are doing she tells me that they really have no effect on her other than making her tired to the point of falling asleep in school. I seem to see less tiredness so I don't think that is completely true. When we point out how well things seem to be going between us, particularly to when she doesn't get her way and the contract, she says that's because she spends most of her time in her room.

Okay.....so I need some help to feel confident that the meds are doing their thing and that she is on the right ones OR even needs them. Being that things are much more peaceful at home I can see somewhat of a positive effect. Also I KNOW that we need to have her on meds to keep her safe in terms of hurting herself. BUT....are they at the point of seeing their overall effect?? What bothers me the most is that I do not see my daughter smiling or happy, although, when on the phone I do hear some laughter with friends. My older daughter questioned me several times why Erin sounds so tired and down on the phone.....so her family is somewhat concerned.

So....what are your thoughts on this??? Is it too soon to see any more of an effect??? And how much of this is NORMAL teenage behavior??? I did speak to my best friend about this and she says her teenage son IS much to himself but does converse in a happier manner although not all the time. With Erin there seems to be no happy convos.....everything seems so blah.

I can't help but worry about the Celexa.....it is a SSRI and I have a feeling if I discuss what I have here with the doctor tomorrow he will only up it. Do we wait it out to see if there is more improvement in terms of her mood??? I mean....we have heard laughter with her friends so I am leaning more towards waiting it out. One thing I am glad of is that the appointment we have with the psychiatrist tomorrow is with one in the same group as the psychiatrist who saw Erin while hospitalized (who has no room in her practice to followup with Erin). AND this appointment was made as a new patient even BEFORE she was hospitalized....so I am almost thinking that in a way it will be a second opinion for us. Of course they will know Erin was hospitalized but I would like to ask the doctor to reevaluate Erin because of my concerns...what do you think about that???

I still am somewhat uneasy about the unclear diagnosis....although from reading the posts on here I would rather them lack a diagnosis than misdiagnose Erin. I know that time is going to tell most of all what is going on. And that what we want most of all is Erin to feel safe with herself but I cannot shake the sadness.....I know if the BF weren't an issue we might see the true effects of the meds.....so m gut says to give it a litttle more time before making any changes. Anyone else agree with that???

The thing is, if Erin is not on the right meds....how will I know??? I know it is only a week but I like to always be one step ahead as you can see

. Each night I go to sleep I am dreaming the same thoughts of whether we are doing the right thing for Erin. I feel so unsettled and just wish that I KNEW what was the right thing to do for her. this is one time in my life that I feeel this way and I am having the most difficult time with this as a mom.

Knowing that she sees the doctor tomorrow and the psychiatric social worker on Thursday makes me feel somewhat better. But when will this feeling of uncertainty go away???? As a mom I always thought I knew what was best for my child but this is just one of those times that I just don't know.

Thanks for listening ~ Goody

crisma · 03-14-2006, 12:52 PM

Hi Goody! I don't know much about bi-polar, but I do know that I went through a real bad time a few years ago with depression and anxiety and it took a while to get me where I needed to be with the meds. Everything I have read about says it takes about 2 weeks to get the meds in your system. I don't know about the bi-polar meds though. But the depression meds I was on made me feel so drained for the first few weeks.I know you are worried about the diagnosis and the meds, but you are on the right road! I am sure trying to diagnosis a teenager is a difficult thing, because there are so many highs and lows with them that are totally normal. I am starting to see that in my oldest son, who will be 13 in a few weeks.

I am sure this is hard on you because you are not able to "fix" Erin. As moms we are supposed to be able to make everything better(or at least we think it should be that way

!). I hope the doctor that you are takin Erin to tomorrow can help give you a clearer picture and make you feel more at ease with all that is going on with her. I myself would not be comfortable with a not so clear diagnosis! But these mental health problems never seem to be easily diagnosed. Keep your head up and stay strong. I know this cannot be an easy time for you and your family!

Sending lots of prayers your way!
Cristie

Ruth6:11 · 03-14-2006, 02:45 PM

Hi Goody

From the depths of my extensive parental experience

, here are some groups of "Typical Adolescent Behavior"
* Neglect of Chores - avoiding family duties such as caring for pets, helping with meals or doing the dishes, shoveling snow, taking out the garbage.
* Interpersonal Relations - not getting along with others, including fighting with siblings or friends, hitting, arguing, and teasing
* Personal and Interpersonal Activities - watching too much TV, talking too long on the phone, staying too long after school for sports or clubs, frequenting the shopping malls, decisions when to see friends, bad choice of friends
* Personal Appearance - dressing inappropriately, hair styles, makeup
* Homework / Academic Achievement - neglecting homework, obtaining poor grades
* Cleaning the Bedroom - neglecting to make up the bed, leaving clothes on chairs or on the floor, not cleaning or dusting
* Bedtime and Curfew - not getting home when expected from outings, or staying up too late
* Health and Hygiene - poor diet, bad personal hygiene, or substance abuse
* Spending Money -- poor spending habits, not earning money, poor budgeting

And from observing 5 teens in my family and 12 teens in Mr. Ruth's grow up, here are some other observations.
1) Purple hair, mohawks, black eyeliner all around, mutiple piercings are all normal.
A % will get a tattoo as soon as they are legally able to at age 18.
2) Most teens start speaking to their parents in monosyllables until they are out of high school. "Nothing" and "fine" are normal.
3) Most teens WILL try drinking, smoking & sex. It doesn't matter what you taught them - the Peer Group generally rules. A smart girl will get the Pill on her own, one not so smart or one determined to get pregnant will get pregnant.
4) There are things going on in your teens life that you won't hear about until they are in their 30's - if then. In fact, according to my mom you NEVER want to hear about them!
5) Hormones, hormones, hormones. Behavior isn't always because they are awful, or nuts. Hormones hit your brain like any other chemical and can cause major problems with behavior and mood.
6) Communication is great. But don't count on it over the teenage years! Teens are needing to become independent - not having to tell their parents everything. My sister used sit, sullen, over dinner.... eat, then get up and leave the table without saying a word! The magic is that everything you taught them during the first 14 years is still there when they are mid-twenties!

Whew! I know there's more - and I sense that you (just like I would!) want to be an involved, aware, concerned, sharing kind of parent.
The thing is, teens are designed to start moving AWAY from parents.
And there it is, how do you keep them safe while they are gaining their separate selves?

Also, some meds can take 10 days to two weeks to settle in and get to the proper strength in the blood stream. Most have a half-life.

You may get some conflicting advice on this, but Erin needs to have separate time with a counselor from you two. And there also needs to be built in family sessions.
She needs to talk to her counselor separate from you with the knowledge that EVERYthing she says is NOT going to be repeated to you.
Legally each state is different on what information is allowed to be shared when the patient is a minor. And certainly some things a counselor should let you in on. But she won't open up if she thinks everything is being repeated to you no matter how close your relationship has been to this point!

Want to hear something about me that not many people know? In my family I have 4 nieces & 1 nephew. As each reached the age of going to parties I would pull them aside, give them a little card with some free long distance minutes on it and my phone number on it, and I would tell them,

"This is a card for you. If you are ever at a party or a place that you shouldnt be, and you're afraid to call home, and there are things going on there and YOU DON'T WANT TO BE THERE - tell your "friends" that you feel sick, call me and I will come and get you NO QUESTIONS ASKED. I will take you home, or to my apartment (I was still single of course!) and that will be that.

The thing is, NOT ONE of them ever needed the card. I was never sure what that meant exactly, but either they wanted to be there and face the consequences or they behaved admirably!

Ok, that's it for now before I get up another head of steam here!
I would honestly say that once the system starts you can be an observer on the mental health angle - and the hard part is treating her like a budding adult rather than the child you have always known.
I was so sick there really wasn't a question of growing up the same as everyone else.
(Not real sure about your question on my self-esteem? Kind of asking about the stigma of having a mental illness as a teen and it's effect on me?)
Ok, there I go again!
I knew I should have sat down with a bigger pot of coffee!!!
A Big Hug,
Ruth

goody2shuz · 03-14-2006, 09:06 PM

Hahahahahahaha....oh Ruth I really needed this post!! Okay, so you didn't want to directly answer my questions but in your own special way I guess you did.

I know Erin is becoming her own independent being and for the most part I am 100% behind that!!

Funny how today when she got home and I asked how her day was she said "good" and I told her that I thought there was a way we could make it even be better!! I sat down & told her that not being able to see your boyfriend, no matter how your parents felt about him, must suck and so we were going to figure out together a way for them to see one another that was acceptable to all parties. We talked about compromise and came about an acceptable middle ground....I was not going to compromise on her seeing him at his house but she could get together with him at other people's houses and at the movies, local restaurants and places so long as they were in a group. She was okay with this.

The IM that we found with the sexually explicit talk was with her BF and went on to the two of them discussing becoming intimate (I had not read on to this part since it was 20 pages but did when she was in the hospital) I took the opportunity to discuss that further with her....the BF in the IM indicated that he had sex 3 times, twice with the same girl and once with another. He indicated that he wasn't going to rush Erin and would be very gentle with her. With this knowledge I indicated my concern and asked her that when & if she were thinking about becoming sexually active that she should feel free to come to me and we would get birth control. She indicated that perhaps we should do so now. Okay....I must admit my heartbeat went crazy and I almost lost it but I counted to 20 just like my cybertwin would.

I sat down calmly and told her that I still thought that she was not emotionally ready for sex, that for girls it was a big part of themselves and to please listen to what I had to say ....that we would definitely go to the gyn but we were going to list the pros and cons to the pill and becoming sexually active. Of course the pros were to prevent pregnancy, improve acne, & decrease bleeding and of course to have sex with less worry. The cons we came up with were STD's, emotional investment to another who could walk away, the pill's side effects such as increased stroke, heart attack, infertility, ovarian/uterine cancer and weight gain amongst the few (of course my knowledge came in handy here). And I told her that the pill was not 100% effective and there was still a chance of pregnancy. She commented on the .1% and I told her that that went up and if you did not use it right, and if you were using other meds such as antibiotics that the effect of the pill could be significantly decreased.

I went on to tell her that my greatest concern was that it was obvious that her BF was with 2 girls and they were now history and that she could easliy become #3 and that he could walk away and she would be left feeling as if she had lost so much more than just a BF. She got a little argumentative saying that her BF said he would be with her forever and he was not like that etc......need I say more??? I told her that all guys say that to get some and will say just about anything to get some....that sex was on their minds 24/7 (this elicited a smile from her) while for us girls it was something that sealed the relationship as something special and often involved our entire heart & soul. I asked her how she would feel if she gave a part of herself that she held as something very special and the guy just walked away on to the next girl??? She got quiet and said that it would really hurt her.

We talked a little more and then I teased her when she told me that her BF would be there forever and I said "get him to marry you and then we will get her the birth control". Can you believe Erin picks up the phone and calls the BF and asks him to marry her????

Of course he said NO (which says alot about the guy!!) and I made a point of laughing while she was on the phone with him shouting how no 15 year old guy is ready to get married nor is any 14 year old girl!!!

Tom arrives on the scene just in time and he took Erin out for a bike ride and upon return we all sat down and talked. Imagine how my heart melted when my dear wonderful husband goes on to tell our daughter how guys want sex and how he did at her BF's age.....that he didn't have sex until he was much older (in his twenties) and that he knew 2 things for sure.....that a guy will say just about anything to get sex AND when it comes down to settling down he looks for a woman who is special and sees sex as a very special thing and not something to do with just any guy. He told Erin that he hoped that she would wait until she found that very special guy who she knew loved and respected her and that sex and making love was something that bonded two people in such a special way and that it should be with somebody that you see "forever" with. That's when my heart melted and all the love I feel for my hubby overflowed.

Erin actually smiled alot during our convo...there were moments when we said some rather funny things and as parents answered some of her questions like if we still did it!! I looked at her and said " We'll we're not dead yet, are we???" She kind of did her "ewwwww" thing like most of us did when we thought about our parents doing it

The highlight of the convo was when we asked Erin if she understood and she said that she did and instead of running up to her room she hung out with us for quite a while afterwards randomly asking questions.

Okay.....so how did we do??? And no....I am not cancelling that appointment to the gyn!!! I discussed with Erin how part of her problem was being impulsive and that I was not going to allow her impulsivity to affect her entire life....that we would see the doctor and get the script and that she would have it available for when she would ever need it but that I was hoping, really hoping , that she would not see it as a means of doing something with little thought. And that she should realize how special she was and how much we knew that she was capable of making the best choices in her life and be smart about it. I shared with her how sometimes children did things out of rebellion towards their parents and that we hoped that she would never do so because the one who usually ended up the most hurt would be her. I shared with her how my best friend had married a man that her parents didn't care for because he didn't have a job and looked as if he would never provide for her. Erin knows of my best friend and her situation and financial struggles and has often cried with me when seeing me feeling my best friend's pain. I told her that for almost her entire marriage, my best friend has been so unhappy and that I am sure that part of the reason she married the man was because of her parents dislike of him. Erin has been aware of this and hopefully will apply that to her future choices as well.

So Ruth.....another pot of coffee for us....I know that you are feeling much the same way as me in regard to Erin....does she have Bipolar or is she a typifal teen with the hormones raging a little more than most??? Who knows....but one thing I do know for sure is even if she does have Bipolar there is nothing wrong with her and it doesn't make her any different in my eyes because I happen to know one beautiful, smart, caring, confident person who IS Bipolar who I happen to love very much!!!

Knowing YOU alleviates most of my fears because I know that Erin IS special and will always be that way whether she is Bipolar or not.

And BTW....my question regarding self esteem did not come referring to once you had the knowledge of being Bipolar or even knowing something was wrong....NO, I wanted to know how your self esteem was before you were even diagnosed!! I sure hope that I didn't offend you in anyway, my dearest friend.

((((HUGS)))) for putting up with me and my long posts!! I must say that your last post must be a record in length!!

We may need lots more coffee if we keep up at this pace.

On a serious note, Ruth I cannot even begin to tell you how much your friendship means to me!! Thanks for all the time and love you put into showing me you are there and that I am never alone even during those tough moments in my life. You ARE truly one of His angels to me.

Love ~ Goody

goody2shuz · 03-14-2006, 10:32 PM

Cristie ~ A BIG thanks to you for your continued support as well. I figured as you pointed out that the meds are going to take some time to adjust to.....Erin's main complaint is the tiredness and I told her that we will definitely talk to the doctor about this tomorrow (Oooops...today

). We may bring up changing the time she takes them from evening to morning....that way she will be most tired when going to sleep each night.

Thanks again for your continued prayers and support...it really means alot and I consider you to be among the fleet of angels carrying me along these tough times. Thanks for being there for me!!!

(((HUGS))) ~ Goody