He called me again yesterday. He asked if I had found a doctor and we talked about his illness. Then his new gf came up and I asked him to please not talk about her. He made a joke about it and I got angry and insulted her and he got angry, too. I said to please let it go. He got aggressive (and I am NOT having that). Then I snapped and told him how I have been. He does not get it. I asked when his empathy will be back. He said that he is defending his gf, there is his empathy. Then he said our relationship should not have gone this far to the point that I am in pain. But it's not about my pain. I told him about my health concerns and he started to cry, but not for my sake. He cried because it made him feel bad that he caused pain. But he did not ask how I am now and how I dealt with four weeks of being afraid of possibly having cancer. No, he is disappointed with himself because after his suicidal day he decided to walk the straight line now. So he cried. Then he heard that he has nothing to do with my condition (he couldn't if he tried...it was odd) and stopped crying. Then he raged about something related to it. Then he told me that he cheated on me in March, way before this episode (he was hypomanic, I remember). To illustrate that none of it was real. That back then it felt like love to him, but it really wasn't. This is new. Only a few weeks ago he said it was real. And a few months ago he wanted to marry me. Now he is telling me this. And none of this makes sense. I said to him that I have not seen the man I love for 4 months. He said he has it all figured out. He won't go back to school, they will move in together (they have not even met yet) and he will make money. He has never worked a full-time job for longer than a few weeks. He has no money to move anywhere. He has been talking about getting a job for a month now. He has said before that he is well and then crashed. He said he has emotionally abused her during this episode and told her to go away, but they figured it out in one conversation and got rid of his neuroses as he says. It was the most draining conversation of my life. And yes, I should have known better than to go where it went.
All throughout, he cycled like mad. He went from laughing to crying to raging to speaking normally to truly sounding crazy and back. I have never before seen it to this extent. At some points he sounded as if he was completely losing it. I told him he needs treatment so he won't hurt other people and himself. I said that I am not holding anything against him, but that he has no right to continue this and hurt people in the process. Not to speak of himself. He admitted to being bp, but when I mentioned "brain disorder," he freaked out. And I mean freaked out. The noises and sounds and reactions to things throughout sounded like looking madness into the face. I have seen it all before, but not all at once like now.
I will find him a doctor since nobody else is going to do it (and believe him when he says he can handle it) and he said he would go. He still says it's mostly issues and neuroses and that is why I want to talk to the doctor, too, if I can. And then I think "what sort of bloody saint am I, reading about bipolar every day while he is with someone else? Looking to get him treatment while they are having their relationship and waste the day away online?" And there I cycle, too, in my own little way.
But I realized during this conversation just how sad I am for his sake. How sad it is that he does not know about his real sweet and loving self. He says he has been messed up all year, but that is not true. I might not be good at math, but I do know people and I do know him. It breaks my heart. He is so tortured by this. He said he cannot believe his raging behavior that lasted until last week. But he also thinks it is all over although it keeps repeating. And all the while, I felt like I am talking to 5 different people, one of which was clearly losing it...
I just want him to be well and start to manage it so he can be happy. This is so depressing to me. The vibrant and motivated and brilliant guy caught up in this manic cyberworld....I don't know what I even want, but after writing this down, I feel better. Thanks for reading. I don't mean to bash him, I just needed to get this out I think - it was really tough...Perhaps I am just looking for a hug, really...Am I a naive idiot for hoping that things will change again?
You are not an idiot for hoping... but hope is almost always naive. That's what hope is... believing that what you need to happen will happen regardless of the current circumstance.
As I see it, you have two choices... you can give up hope, give up on him, and try to move on with your life, or you can continue to be the best person you can for him, regardless of the current circumstance.
((((((HUGS)))))))) I am really good at giving those, Neleah!! Now that we got that over and done with....I think that your ex BF is truly delusional and going through what they call rapid cycling between the mania and depression. It would be ideal to get him into a pdoc as soon as possible since this seems to be the so called "window of opportunity" to see what it is that is going on with him. Once he comes out of this state it will be really difficult to tell or even difficult for him to be talked into going to see the pdoc even though he has promised to.
I know it is difficult, but EVERYTHING he is saying is the Bipolar talking.....he doesn't even know what he wants so my advice is to try your very best not to react too much to what he says or to take it to heart because tomorrow he most likely will forget about even having said half of the things that he has said to you on the phone.
I think that it is great that you are going to find him a pdoc....the thing is I do not want you to set yourself up for disappointment because I have seen many posters here saying that their loved one has agreed to seeking help and at the very last minute backing out leaving them devastated. I know that you have your own concerns healthwise and they say that stress can really affect one's overall health and response to treatment so please try to focus on taking care of yourself right now.
I hope that things go well and that you are feeling well yourself and that all your efforts pay off one day. He is extremely lucky to have somebody like you that cares so much.
Neleah, I wont be very popular for what I am going to say but I think he should find his own doctor he is not your child but a grown man. I also think you should think very hard before marrying this man if he comes out of this and wants to. I feel like I wasted so many years doing the same thing you are doing and still no success at his getting help. When you think about all you have endured ask yourself if you want to spent the rest of your life this way. I don't mean to hurt anyone but this illness can take your life away if they are not medicated.
I had to reply to you because I have felt some of the things you are experiencing...the lack of empathy...not being able to feel someone else's pain...not being able to see another's perspective or feel how it might be to walk in their shoes. There is a lack of connection and the more you yearn for it, the more they seem to detach. I know on some level my husband loves me and I love him and so all of this seems so senseless. I try to make sense of it, but I can't. He has made it clear he doesn't want or care to hear from me and he kust moved out while I was out of town...I have tried to be supportive of him since this happened despite the pain he has caused me and my son. How does one continue when they act like they could care less? I apoligize for making this about me...this is all so new for me...like you, I find it good to vent. I am lucky, I suppose because my husband is getting help-he is on meds and is going to therapy. Even so, he can't seem to cope with everyday stressors related to marriage...being accountable to someone..being there for someone. It is early in his treatment but I'm not sure he will ever change his view and would I take him back if he did? Hard questions. One day at a time. My thoughts are with you. Take care of you and find some comfort that you are not alone. If I can find some little feeling of peace in my day, I am thank-ful. I wish you peace.
Thank you all so much for your replies! I am having a hard time with this because by now, nothing makes sense anymore, every day it is something different and I worry about him and myself.
sadflash, you are right, hope is naive. I like that. That is exactly right because as long as I am here for him and hope for at least a confirmation that what there was was real (I do want him back, but...), I need to have faith to get through this. And I have been thinking about walking away so many times. During the conversation I described, I thought "it is all over" because I was so wrapped up in emotions and sadness. Luckily I got a hold of a great friend who said: "I understand that you can't leave. You love him, you are worried, and you are you. But make sure you protect yourself. Do not believe anything he tells you now. Or at least don't let it affect you." That helped me with putting all of this into the right drawers, so to speak
goody, you are the queen of hugs indeed! Thank you! ((((hugs))) to you, too, and much strength for your very own battle with this! I have read many of your posts and have nothing but admiration for you. It is good to hear that it his bipolar speaking. He went from "I will love you forever" to (start of mania ->) "love you" to (after break-up) "I miss you" to "I have a vague sense of missing the vividness and energy of our interaction" to "it was real" to "it was not real and I never really loved you but I like talking to you because you are interesting." It is so heartbreaking. I talked at length with a friend yesterday who said: "Don't worry. Regardless of perspective, his behavior just doesn't make sense. Just be patient." It helps. Every day it is something different, but to tell me that his love for me was not real really hit home. The cheating bothers me, of course (and the way he told me...), but I am not even sure if he is telling the truth. And it's not that I want that to be the case, it's really too odd. I don't know. But it probably is true. Not that I can really talk to him about it now...
I e-mailed him and asked how serious he is about seeing a pdoc, why he wants to go and what he expects. He gave me his word, but I really don't know if he will go. And I doubt he will go on meds. But one step at a time. At least he acknowledges now that he has bp, even if he does not know the full extent of it. And I will try to be a little better to myself. I haven't done a great job at it lately...
marshmallow, I really apprecicate your honesty. I don't have a problem with finding a doctor for him, but I truly cannot see myself with him when he is unmedicate. There was too much rage and verbal abuse (not towards me, but he said nasty things behind my back that hit right into my insecurities) for me to believe that anyone can be with him. We were not making plans to get married, just talked about it. We are in different states currently, which I think is a blessing in disguise. But I do care and I do love him and it's just not the time yet to walk away. I want to give it more time. But I will remember your story and others and try to keep my boundaries in place.
needwisdom, I am so sorry that you are going through this and please vent as you need! Hearing other's stories is comforting in a way because the parallels are so striking and I don't feel quite so alone. I am so sorry that this is happening to you and your son and I hope that things will look up soon! The detachment is really hard. I cannot get over his lack of empathy. He loved me so much and it WAS real. I just remind myself over and over again that he is in a different reality right now and that phone conversations did confirm it once and for all. He sounded like a stranger. Two days before he said he wanted to go back to school. Now this. And a woman who supports these plans...this relationship is just killing me although so many people have told me that it's unhealthy and enabling and he will realize it. He actually said to me it probably is.
I doubt he even knows what my role is right now. He said I am the first person that comes to mind when he wants to call someone. He wants me to care about him. He is afraid of me leaving. He respects my opinion. Yesterday was the first time that he showed anger ("I will not allow you to talk about her/me like that") and I was just blown away. Every bit of even rational understanding that this is not how it works is gone. And as goody said, he is delusional...I really worry. But I am trying to distance myself more emotionally. I have been much worse than this.
Thanks for letting me talk about it here. It makes such a difference.
I sent him an e-mail asking why he would go to the pdoc. I wanted to hear that before I make phone calls. I don't want him to go just for the heck of it and not believe anything and not be up-front.
And indeed (received e-mail back): he wants to go out of curiosity, expects to be diagnosed with bp and told he needs treatment. He expects to be told that he is a danger to himself and others. He says he is content with who he is. Everything around him needs to change, not his self. He is fantastic. He has a new mission.
Well, I was warned by goody, wasn't I? And this new woman supports this thinking. They indulge in it and make these plans that won't ever be carried out or if so, will lead nowhere. He will never finish his degree and he won't hold a job. He will just get worse like he has been getting. But she will take care of him...I hate that woman with a passion...
It will be up to him now. He can come to me when he needs me. But I really need to find more distance. I just don't know how... This is killing me...
The only thing left is talk to his parents, but it seems so intrusive.
Hi there I totally understand your confusion. I am married to a man that is bi-polar and is just starting again meds and therapy. He has done this several times in our marrige. We are separated now while he tries to help himself. I am supportive but my life has been ripped apart over and over again and I dont know if we will get back together. I miss the man he used to be and I grieve for him but I cant live that way anymore. Be careful you dont loose yoursef . You might wake up one day and not know who you are and years have passed. Take care of yourself. You only have 1 life too! I am: finally realizing that for the first time!!!! It feels good to take back control of your own life.
((((((Neleah)))))))......I think that you should gather up the information and hand it over to him. It will be up to him to go when he feels the need to go. Even send it to him in an email.....tell him that you know that he will go when he feels the need to go and that you have faith that he will seek the help for himself when he needs it. He needs to to it for HIM and nobody else, Neleah. If he goes because he is forced to, most likely he will paint a picture of a man who has it all together. But if he goes when he really wants and needs the help, the doctor will have a better chance of diagnosing him and recommending the best treatment.
So do not force the issue with him....give him the names and numbers of the doctors that you have found and tell him that you have faith in him that he will call one of them whenever the time comes that he would like the help. Assure him that if he needs somebody to go with him that all he has to do is call. Then I would leave it at that. I know how difficult it is because I have a strong feeling that my oldest daughter is Bipolar. I made an appointment with a psychiatrist for her and she went but she painted a whole different picture and with that she was unable to be diagnosed. I know that in time, that if she IS Bipolar she will come to a point that she really wants the help and to get better. Right now is not that time and I must accept it as difficult as it may be.
I think that it is time to turn this over to your ex and allow him to own up to what he must do in order to get better. In most cases when their is need to seek treatment....if it is not readily accepted by the one who needs it then it will fail....but if they are actively involved and wanting it there is a much better chance of it being successsful.
It's time to let go and learn to take care of yourself.....the rest is really up to your ex. You have gone way above the call of duty as a friend and one who genuinely cares for this man.
BIG ((((((HUGS))))) for all your efforts in wanting him to get better ~ Goody
Last edited by goody2shuz; 11-16-2006 at 06:34 AM.
Thank you both for your replies. Right now I feel like all of this is just tearing me apart regardless of what I do. I hear about them together and I just die inside. I just don't know how to handle this. I don't know where to separate the person from the illness. It kills me that I was pushed aside and that he has been advertising this new "relationship" all over the place with NO care or concern for my feelings from the very beginning. I am sick of cycling through these emotions, feeling angry one moment, worried the next and sad an hour later. But I feel like when I close this chapter, I close it on someone I have not been with. And I would have to accept that non of it was ever real. And I just can't do that. The very idea terrifies me.