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Old 02-25-2007, 06:16 PM   #1
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Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

Hi All,

I am frustrated that so many people are enablers, and so many people are frightened of the bp not talking to them again, distancing themselves etc.

I am so sick of hearing people say "what can I do", "You can only help someone that asks for help".

I know the best help is going to the doc - but there is so much resistance to that, people just want to assume this is a phase or make excuses.

Well, I am curious.

Can you be stopped when you are manic? Do you want to be stopped? (I know that will depend upon your degree of mania) If you could be stopped, how? (I am talking chonic in this case, financial, relationship, sexual, career, family and freinds)

I am so angry that people are not brave with this. It seems with my situation that people are apathetic, scared, and are prepared to risk the person they care about rather than getting the full facts, and dealing with it. (Scared of a person cutting them out of there life, or not wanting to know things that might damage the bond etc)

I would imagine family would want all the help in the world for the person they care about, but they appear to be scared. I know it must be hard for family, but surely, isnt there a point that they face this head on, and accept it?

I should say, I am generally a very impatient person, and I have always believed that one person can create change. I am probably a bit presumptious here - but I just dont get it. I think the apathy is from fear of the title, and the preconcieved ideas. But I would really like to know - can this devastation be stopped by family and freinds? If not family and freinds responsibility...whos' is it?

Enough of my rambling. I am really interested to hear what people have to say, and I have well and truly said enough!

Hope everyone is doing okay.

 
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Old 02-25-2007, 06:53 PM   #2
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Re: Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

I can only speak from our experience with a bipolar son who was diagnosed while away at college. I'm not sure how it is in countries outisde the US, but here it is very difficult to get help for a person over the age of 17 if that person does not wish to be helped. Even as a parent you have no rights. You cannot talk to the doctors, without your child giving permission. You cannot visit him/her in the hospital unless allowed in by your child. You have no way of knowing what meds or treatments are prescribed, etc. You can't even really get the police involved unless you can provide some sort of proof that the person is going to harm himself or another. You can, of course, talk to the person and try to talk him/her into getting help; you can express your concern, but if the person refuses, you don't really have any options. We have never had any contact with any of our son's pdocs or therapists, never talked with any of them.

I realize this isn't exactly what you were getting at in your post, but wanted to let you know how it is from one parent's perspective. We could be as in tune to the problems and desirous of help as possible and it would not make any difference if our son did not want us to be involved.

 
Old 02-25-2007, 07:05 PM   #3
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Re: Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

Hi Me again

The awnser is it depends.

First full blown mania you have proberbly no chance. Second maybe but slight. Its about trust and in mania you tend not to trust people who dissagree with you.

The people who have proved best for me just went on a damage limitation exercise, attempting to divert foolish actions but avoiding contridiction.

During my later episodes when I was at least partically medicated, I began to question my sanity and opened up to an old friend asking him if he thought my behaviour was questionable. He had met my pDoc with me to draw up a plan of action if I became unwell (during a good spell) and he helped medicate me and bring me safely down for a while.

But people do the funniest things. During episode no 2, the life changing one. I visited my brother for the first time in ages. He was aware of what had happened in my personal life and we went out with some kwi freinds of his where I proceeded to tell them how I was on a mission 2 save the world and soon the whole of london would be saying hello to each other in the morning.

When he walked me to my car, I produced a corkscrew from my pocket that I had purchased earlier to open a bottle of red in my room. On seeing it he immediately said with a sturn face "what's that 4", I told him to open a bottle of wine (which seemed pretty obvious). Then he said 'paul give it to me'. I kept asking him why but he just repeated that I should give it to him over and over again, without explaination. I found this ammusing but in the end I handed it over. Then I pointed out that I could simply buy another one. It then took him another 10 minutes to get me to promise not to get anotherone. Once I got bored I did so.

We didn't fallout and no harsh words were explained, but I avoided his calls thoughout the rest of the mania. In my mind did I really want to have anything to do with him if he thinks I am incapabable of openning a bottle of wine in my own hotel bedroom that has a bar full of booze downstairs. His jesture of help I interpreted as patronising. As would anyone convinced of their sanity as most full blown manics are.

But the thing with my old freind really worked because I had made a conseus decision to trust him before I got ill. And that situation had been formalised. He also always made it clear that he was not on any side, even though I never asked him if he was.

Cheers

P

 
Old 02-25-2007, 07:42 PM   #4
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Re: Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

Hi Tsohl and Paul,

Thanks for both your responses.

Tsohl - I am really glad you replied - I was looking for a parents perspective. The law is pretty much the same over here in getting someone looked at.
I know it must be hard for family to accept that there is something wrong, and then decide to do something about it.
Somehow, I think the only answer is getting medical attention
I understand it must be so hard to see this, and wonder what you can do. But at the moment, I am left being the punching bag, and I think when he comes out he will end it all.

I wonder - is there a point, where a parent is forced to act?

Paul - Thank you for your response also. You are always so helpful, perhaps because of the situation. In this case, he is not spending time around many freinds, and certainly not telling them any of the truths in his life. If a freind disagrees - he just cuts them out. So good freinds say..I know this is not him, these are horrific things he is doing (and they only know a tiny bit) but it is not him. I consider him my best freind, I wont risk it..... So there is little chance of anyone taking back the corksrew opener.
I just find it so scary and confusing that no-one is prepared to do anything. I am lucky, all my close freinds would risk losing me as a freind to protect me or save me from destruction.

There has to be a point where parents and freinds do step in...isnt there? Otherwise, whos responsibility is he in this condition?

Last edited by suddenlyhere; 03-15-2007 at 11:55 PM. Reason: edit

 
Old 02-26-2007, 04:06 AM   #5
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Re: Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

He is his own responsibility honey as sad and cold as that sounds...he is a grown man and at some point he will start coming down off the manic episode and WILL know his behaviour has been poor. I am starting to see this with my b/f at the moment. He is coming down off a manic episode which he has been in since about the New Year. Before that he was very depressed and suicidal.

He warned me the manic episode was coming and soon after it started he moved out of our shared trailer into his own truck. That was a month ago. He has thrown himself into work, working 7 days a week for the last 4 or 5 weeks to the point where he is now exhausted and I can see the tell tale signs of depression starting to kick in. Now my b/f has taken responsibility for his life, his illness and despite the fact its breaking my heart he has ended the relationship we are in so that we can try and preserve our friendship. He has also taken the responsibility to really start to look at his episodes, and is starting to explain stuff to his family. But for a year or more I have been trying to get him to do this .. to reach out to his family ... but he wouldn't have a bar of it until right now. I dunno what I am trying to say hon but I feel how frustrated you are and how much you are wanting to help him. But also how much you feel let down by people who in your opinion should be there unquestioningly to help him through... but BP is such a taboo subject and so very misunderstood. My b/f's mum has only just started to listen this last week... she never wondered why her son went awol for 6 year, just put it down to him "playing-up" despite the fact she worried herself sick for 6 years!!! *wheres that brick wall to bang my head against* I think its a generational thing aswell.. our parents generation still in the era most of them of not recognising mental health problems.. that "pull ya socks up* generation.. my own father has that attitude yet he suffers "black moods" his own father was sectioned and his grandfather died in a work house diagnosed with severe manic depression... yet still my Dad doesn't acknowledge depression as a viable illness.. "its all in ya head so get on with it"

I know my b/f is going through a manic episode at moment and its only been the last couple of days he has actually stopped denying this to himself and everyone round him aswell.. this is how I know he is coming down off it because his perception of reality is starting to normalise a little. But whilst he was in the middle of it.. absolutley no way on this earth that anyone could have a) told him he was manic b)tried to stop him from being manic or c) tried to get him to admit that anything was wrong at all...

Hope that was of some help suddenly if only to maybe help you feel like you aren't on your own hun xxx

Paul as ever your posts are very insightful - thankyou so much for sharing your story and experiences.. you don't know how much they are helping right now - thanks x

 
Old 02-26-2007, 09:17 AM   #6
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Re: Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

Boy, do I ever agree with you. It has been my very depressing and frustrating experience to see the apathy about BP, when you are pleading for life preservers left and right, telling people, reaching out to people on what is going on and time after time, I am met with indifference or looks of disbelief, disinterest, etc.

It's too big for them, and they do not know what to do with it. In any respect, there has GOT to come a time when people wake up and get a big fat reality check. I see over and over again how he manipulates the stories, twists circumstances and isoh-so-capable of putting on the face of normalcy when you're being chewed up and spit out at home.

Don't you people get it? If not, why not? I know feel it will take him so depressed, reinforcements will have to be called in or he will be so manic, his behavior will get so reckless or he'll wind up in a hospital He's the pillar of restraint and control. I'm actually hoping it will come to this, because he won't do anything at this point. Won't acknowledge he has BP. He is just coming off a 6-month manic cycle, which has been total hell. The worse so far, I could see the wind down start a couple weeks ago. He's been home for four days, either in bed or on the sofa; hasn't bathed, eaten very little; doesn't speak. The meanness and nastiness is still there. He doesn't talk to us and he hasn't for months, which is fine by me.

I'm done with this; it has crossed the line and reached a point of no return. I just have to get the divorce going; there's lots to do. Even now, as he is cycling down quickly, there will never ever be an apology, no remorse or regret, as you hear in many cases. We don't even get that. It's the saddest, sickest thing I've ever been through and I would not wish it on anyone.

Bottom line, I share your frustration and know what you are feeling and going through.

 
Old 02-26-2007, 11:26 AM   #7
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Re: Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

While I share all your frustrations, I wouldn't get my hopes up too much of the hospital being the magic cure-all. When my son had a manic episode that I think of as hitting rock bottom, he realized it, called us up and said on Monday morning he would be taking himself to the psychiatric hospital. I will spare you all the details, but he did do this and we went with him. We sat in the lobby for about 3 hours while they did the intake interview, having no idea what was going on. Then he was admitted, taken behind locked doors into the ward, and we had to go home, again without any information on him, his condition, etc. The HIPA (privacy) laws governed what we could learn about our son's situation. We had no legal right to talk with anyone, learn anything about his condition, etc.

At his point our son was having psychotic episodes. His pupils were dilated and he could barely walk. He thought he'd be in the hospital at least 10 days, and probably for a month. The next morning I was out shopping for some things to keep him occupied while he was in the hospital for this extended time period when my cell phone rang. It was my son asking that I come pick him up. I nearly passed out right in the art supply aisle!! My son had recovered his senses sufficiently to decide that he hated the hospital and didn't want to be there. The law states that you can only be kept for 24 hours, so he had filed to be let out. I figured the pdoc would never agree to this...but, guess what? He examined our son, decided he was not a danger to himself or anyone else and he signed the discharge papers. I was in shock and in total disbelief that this was happening!! But, that's the law...at least in our state.

My point is that even if your loved one realizes he needs help and admits himself to the hospital, s/he will not necessarily remain there long enough to get help. This is the problem with involuntary commitals. You might succeed at getting a person into the psych ward but I believe the law reads that unless s/he is a danger to himself or another, that person cannot be held for more than 3 days, or 24 hours if an observation period has not been ordered. At least in the US, it is very difficult to get someone admitted.

So while you might be thinking "Why doesn't the family do something?" there may be good reasons why they have not been able to get help.

By the way, if you are curious what happened to our son, several months later he was fired from his job and he realized he needed to make some changes. He changed his lifestyle to some extent, changed pdocs (again), changed meds (again) and he has now been stable and healthy for the past 2 years.

 
Old 02-26-2007, 02:14 PM   #8
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Re: Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

Hi Tsohl and everyone,

Thank you so much for your posts. I had a psych tell me there is nothing I can do at the moment. I need to protect myself financially, and in theory I should get him medicated however I can.

Well, I cant protect myself financially - its too late for that.

Last edited by suddenlyhere; 03-15-2007 at 11:51 PM. Reason: edit

 
Old 02-27-2007, 09:27 AM   #9
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Re: Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

Hi Everyone,

I know how emotional straining this can be when they are manic. It's absolutely amazing to see a person show such deep unconditional love one day and then hating every piece of us the next. I so want this divorce to be over but for whatever her reasons she is prolonging this for no apparent reason. She did this with the last filing in 2005 and then crashed big time wanting to come running back. Needless to say I fell for it and here I am again dealing with her mania. I'm not being so nice this time so rather than her trying to sneak back in she's coming at me with lies and BS that's just costing much more in legal fees. I'm being forced to come at her all my might to make her understand this is not a joke and there are 4 children that must deal with this on a daily basis. She truly is clueless and has no rational to her present and past behavior.

For your question about this being "natural" I would say I think a seed is planted early on but the family, friends, and others around the BP become responsible to a point for the environment they provide for that seed to grow untouched or be correctly managed from very early on. I know the BP is the one truly responsible but if the family and friends keep enabling them they will never be held accountable for the BP behavior.

My wife's family has all but denied the seed even existed and now it has grown out of control for years. After my wife's out of control high school years, 3 marriages, 4 children with three different men, and behavior throughout it all that would alarm any rational person my wife's family has to either be frozen in time or the most irresponsible naive people on earth. Her BP sister has a very similar track record and still no one will say a thing. I wouldn't even attempt to speak with them as they would only blame it all on me as they have every spouse or boyfriend in the past. It was amazing how they went along with her mania in the 2005 filing. She bought a house, moved out and then 15 days later (yes, she only made it 15 days in her new $300K house) wanted it all back.

What was more amazing is that her family almost acted like nothing happened. We actually went to Sunday dinner a week later and everybody just acted like it was any normal Sunday. I mean I'm LOL right now thinking about how crazy that all was. My therapist that has been doing it for over 20+ years said my wife's family was the most irresponsible family she had ever seen. One other thing - when my wife is stable she tends to surround herself with responsible people and avoid those that are dysfunctional. When the mania starts to set in she starts a very obvious transition to those people that are far from responsible and will only enable her very manic ways. It sickening to watch it all happen but I've seen it so many times. I not only removing myself from the marriage but trying to really distance myself from all of the people that are being irresponsible in supporting her same old – same old manic behavior.


God Bless………U&A


***Hang in there and we will all get through this together with each other’s support.
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Last edited by Used&Abused; 02-27-2007 at 09:29 AM.

 
Old 02-27-2007, 09:34 AM   #10
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Re: Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

U & A - hang in there and be strong. I know you are! Of course her family will bury their heads in the sand in denial because otherwise they may have to accept some responsibility for nurtering the seed into an full blown wild weed!

 
Old 02-27-2007, 11:08 AM   #11
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Re: Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

hey
this is a good thread.
in hindsight, i guess yes cos it has got me into so much trouble, especially financially. but at the time im always very secretive about my behaviour and dont want anyone to know how im behaving, and i guess i also enjoy it too.
but i never seek help when im manic, only when im depressed
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Old 02-27-2007, 02:06 PM   #12
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Re: Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

Hi Fallen Angel,

Thank you for your response.

Do you think that there is anything that friends or family could do that would make you be less secretive, and question things a bit more? Or do you think any action would just encourage you to be more secretive.

Angel, thanks for taking the time to read this thread, and give us your thoughts.

Last edited by suddenlyhere; 03-15-2007 at 11:50 PM. Reason: edit

 
Old 02-27-2007, 02:25 PM   #13
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Re: Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

Hi suddenly,

I'm thinking of you and sending support & strength!

Hang in there.
4support

 
Old 02-27-2007, 02:56 PM   #14
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Re: Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

Thanks 4support.

I appreciate it!
..and you know that I am here and reading, and sending positive vibes your way. We will get through this. The support from this forum is amazing - I dont think I could have handled this, or made sense of this whole thing without each and every one. Hope things are getting better for you.

 
Old 02-28-2007, 09:46 AM   #15
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Re: Do you ever wish that someone stopped your manic behaviour? Can people help?

hi suddenly
to be honest im not sure if there is anything anyone could do to make me less secretive, i guess i find it easier to be open with my friends who are more understanding and less judgemental than my mum who had me quite late in life so theres a generation gap, and finds it hard to understand, i think she would be horrified by some of my behaviour if she knew the full extent of it. i have stolen from her before when ive been manic as my main problem has been with excessive spending so i guess i need to be grateful for the fact shes forgiven me and carried on supporting me unconditionally. shes always encouraged me to be honest when im getting manic so she can help me but being deceitful has become too much of a habit and sometimes i dont want to be stopped because i feel a physical need to behave like that, thats the only way i can explain it.
i think id actually feel quite angry if someone exposed my behaviour at that time, because even when people pick up on things or are suspicious i deny it til the end! even though maybe underneath i know i need help when things get really out of control.
hope this helps! take care
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