I'm having a hard time coping right now. I Have read marshmallows posts and can relate somewhat, fortunately I don't have the financial problems like her. I am so sorry you are going through that.I am making it on my own--barely but I am, and he is not trying to ruin me. My husband had abandoned me just over 6 weeks ago and it has been such a rollercoaster ride.He left me without any contact, and when I had finally gotten messages from him it was nothing but anger and hatred towards me. I know I did nothing to warrant this abuse and for him to leave. Just like marshmallows husband, mine is so loving towards me when he is stable---but he is unmedicated--he is also unaware he is ill. I just found out pretty much for sure over a month ago, and it makes you think....if only I would have known I could have done so much more. Right now it's like he has forgotten about me, unless I e-mail him he won't do anything!( I'm such a horrible person in his eyes apparently,that I am not allowed to have his phone #, and his paranoia makes him not give it to family or friends just in case they tell me!) The last time I did talk to him which was a week ago that he phoned me, it was like talking to a machine! He had absolutely no emotion in him. There are times I want to give up because the pain can be so unbearable,and it breaks you down, but I know that I really don't want to give up, I still love him, and I think about things we did together and how I long for his touch. I don't know where he is right now as far as within his Bp, it's just so scary and painfull to have loved and to continue to love someone that you had been with for 11 years and have it cut off suddenly without any control of it yourself--almost like he died. I am just so unsure what to think right now with him just so uncaring and emotionless. I kept thinking that it will pass, he will crash eventually and will remember me, remember that I am here, remember that he really does love me. But when it feels like forever(even though he was gone for at least double the time last time) you just feel so hopeless sometimes. I am trying to keep my faith, and it does help to come here and have so many wonderful people to help you keep going and give you such comfort. I just had to let it out every now and then when you just feel so hopeless sometimes. Thanks for listening.
Hi, L & L I just wanted to jump on board and welcome you with some BIG ((((((HUGS)))))).
I am truly sorry about all that you are going through....it must break your heart and I cannot even imagine what it must be like to be married to somebody for all those years only to see them taken by the BP. As I have explained to Marshmallow, this is a disorder that requires treatment and without it only worstens and not only ruins the BPer's life but anybody in his/her path. I am sorry to say that without treatment your husband will not get better. He has to come to that realization on his own.
I only know this from the perspective of being a parent with a 15 year old with BP. She was just diagnosed around 8 months ago and on her meds for about 6 months now. She still has her breakthrough moments and has yet to be stabilized but is much better than before she started her meds. A big thing with BPers is the need to run away. My daughter ran away 3 times last year causing us such worry. It's something that she didn't even think about...she wanted out and out she went. She even went so far as to fabricate all sorts of stories about how she was being abused at home actually inflicted a scratch on her face and on Valentine's Day last year we had CPS knocking on our door to do a full investigation!!! She constantly made plans to live with boys or friends telling us that she hated living with us....she even talked her school social worker into looking into an adolescent home for her. When the social worker heard our side of things and found out that our daughter had self inflicted the scratch on her face and had lied to her she recommended that we seek inpatient evaluation and that's just what we did.
Our daughter started out the school year asking her guidance counselor how she can emancipate herself. So you can imagine how upsetting this all is. If my daughter were 18 and unmedicated I am sure that she would have run away not even having second thoughts about it.
BPers for some reason feel the need to start over and that things will change just by changing demographics. And they spend years and years of running away, blaming others for their actions that are induced by the disorder, convincing themselves that everybody else is at fault and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them.
I don't know if this is making things better I am just trying to tell you the reality of the situation and that is, unless your husband seeks treatment for this disorder it will worsten and affect his life and anyone who is in close contact with him. It is difficult to even explain the pain and toll that this disorder takes on the person afflicted with it as well as those who love them. It is emotionally, physically, and mentally consuming and I know, having lived through it, if my daughter were refusing treatment, we couldn't live with her without it taking us down with her. As her parents, it is our job to have her treated and evenso, it wasn't easy to do that. She was hospitalized 3 times within a year, had numerous suicide attempts, was arrested for shoplifting, had sex with a boy she barely knew, and ran away 3 times before accepting the help on a 4th hospitalization. Without treatment I am almost certain that either she would be in a Juvenile Detention facility or perhaps even dead.
Even with medication things are still difficult but manageable. We are hoping that with more time and adjustments in meds & therapy that she will further stabilize. I am glad that we were able to find her the treatment that she needed so that she will have a good future ahead.
So....that is the reality of the situation, sad as it is. I couldn't imagine living with an unmedicated spouse. As a parent we are left with little choice but I would honestly say, that if I were in your shoes and my spouse were refusing treatment, I would do everything I could to take care of myself and once he wants to come back make it quite clear to him that you are not going there unless he seeks treatment for his BP.
I wish I could take away the pain for you, Marshmallow, and all the others here. But I can only offer you my support, prayers & (((HUGS))).
L&L I am so sorry for your pain I know how you feel I really do. I too long for the times when it was good but for me those times are past unless someday he gets help. I hope that happens for you. Goody is so good at words and there is not much more that could be said except we are here for you.
Take care I truly feel your pain.
Hi Goody & Marshmallow, thank you for all the care, I appreciate, and need it so much. I have no one else TO support me, family and friends don't really care. My heart goes out to both of you. Goody, that must be incredibly hard to deal with all that she has done and at such a young age, when you are trying to protect and provide for her but that control is taken away without your choice--I am so sorry. I just wonder why this disorder seems to make them hate the ones that they love the most, the ones that are the closest. It's a very strange disorder. Marshmallow I KNOW you know what I am going through, I have read a lot of your posts, but unfortunately you have more to deal with, my heart goes out to you. I wish there was something I could do to help.
It's amazing how wonderful the people here are, I know that you both are suffering and yet can offer such comfort. Thanks
Hi, I'm so very sorry that you are going through this. I don't know what it is like to be on the other end of bp being bp myself. I know how difficult to live w/ bp and not be on meds. I'm going through it right now and at times........life is almost umbearable. You really don't realize what is going on in the world around you b/c you cannot see past your own pain. Men have a tendency more so than women to not admit this or talk about it. One of the saddest things is that the bp person has to be the one to get the help...you just can't force them to do it. I think my fiance' is bp, but he refuses to consider it, and actually broke up with me when I got diagnosed....like it was my fault. My heart and thoughts go out to you. Just know that no matter what you say or do...or what you said or didn't do without professional help he will not get better. You've done nothing wrong, so please don't beat yourself up over this......know it is the disease. Again I am truely sorry. If you ever need to talk, I'll be here.
hi l&l, and all. this is my first post/reply, and i am a newbie in everyway....including computers. i am a 59 yr. mom w/40 yr. son, untreated, unwilling. he has just left wife of 16 yrs......called and left message from the road....and 12 yr. daughter....both suddenly abandoned and now self educating about BP.
i am so sorry for you, marsh, goody, and us all...with or without. i am learning as fast as i can for it is finally so good to understand anything and everything...at my age the road of loving him has been long, yet reading your stories are mirroring my own. thanks for the comfort and please accept mine.
when i know more i will say more. for now, please know i know the pain from all sides now....sending peace, love, and rishi
YOU GUYS!! Why do you all always make me cry? Not to worry they are tears of comfort. And believe me I thank you all for caring--it feels so good to know that there are people that do. This has helped me also in how I view the world, my pesimistic outlook on so much. I am so sorry for all of you having to go through such pain, my heart really goes out to you., and I am glad that you both have found this site-----it's so wonderful, the people are so helpful and caring such as yourselves. I am the kind of person that feels such sorrow for people and wants to nurse the world better.Since learning about this disorder, and understanding it better,thanks to people like you.And I suppose having depression for 30 or so years myself,and knowing how devastating and draining that is, I so feel so much for people with Bp. I know that it is worse than depression,and I can't help for it to break my heart that there are so many people that are unfairly affected with it. Actually since I last posted ,in my frantic state--sorry--I was having trouble getting him to e-mail me, and when he would it would be nothing but such anger and hatred. I let it slide for a bit and then I did phone him at work.I was afraid because he was having people at work tell me all kinds of things so that I couldn't talk to him. But I thought that day"what have I got to lose--right now I have nothing" So I called from work, and I actually got to talk to him. He promised that he would answer if I called back in 15 minutes(too busy) --HE DID ANSWER. Still angry, and hatefull. He said he would phone me that evening--I got him to promise---HE DID. I was amazed. Still angry and disagreeable, but he called and that was the first step. I have now been able to get him to phone me once every weekend, this will be the second one tomorrow--I can't wait.He didn't have any emotion in his voice at all the last time I spoke to him. But it is another step closer, no emotion BUT no anger.And what I've been doing is letting him know in a non suffocating way that I care(he is quite sick right now--the flu--not running his marathon life right now either)and I have not been saying how I love him and he me---I did that at first so he already knows and when the time is right that he is warming up more I will again allow that gently into the conversation--I don't want to push him back away again.A day at a time. I am calmer now and stronger, so the initial mourning has passed, for now, at least. I still love him dearly and all I can see is that it is the disorder and not him--he can't help it--he has no control. He doesn't even know he has Bp, so taking steps to seek help is not an option until he is stable and I can show him my findings so he will see that he is not a "freak" as he put it sometimes. And he will also realize (I hope) that in my efforts in the past that they weren't flights of fancy in saying that this just isn't normal(I said that to a lot to stuff he did--I don't think he really believed me)I know that it's not over yet and I probably have a long road ahead of me as far as him being stable, but I guess regardless of his decision to come home(and I still believe he will) I still want to help him to be better and live a more stable, healthy and happier life. I believe that a lot of the way things have gone for me,is attributed to many people like you that took the time to help me and others through this debilitaing and emotionally bruising disorder. Where would we be without people like you. Especially when I see so many others on these sites that also don't have ANY other support, care, or help. Thanks Cloudy,I'm so sorry for all your pain, I am here for you as well--don't forget.I may not be able to really help much, but I can listen, and I do care. And to you as well Rishi, it is such a horrible feeling to be abandoned, and I feel for all of you. It's funny to hear your words about mirroring because I have said those myself looking at others stories.And as far as self educating--that's one of the best things you can do---educate.That way (like I have done now) you will be able to see that it IS the disorder and not him and SO, SO, much stuff will start to make sense.How long have you known that he is Bp? How long has it been since he left? Has he talked to anyone since his initial call?I hope that you will let his wife know about this site-------it helps you get through to know that this is real and to see that others have gone through the EXACT same thing in a lot of cases, and helps you get through another day to know that people care about you. I pray for all for a light at the end of the tunnel. Take care of yourselves.
hi l & l, it's me...rishi. thank you so so much for your compassion, and welcome. i have always known that my 1st (of 5) sons is different. it became completely unmanagable @ approx. 16. until now, i thought that he might be a sociopath, b/c everything was/is always about him with seemingly no awareness of the feelings of others. i will be posting more questions about this when i introduce myself, starting a thread. that said, all my BP research (including what i have learned here) is 100% applicable to my kid. he left 4 wks. ago, has been compulsively manic, sleeping 3 hrs. per night maybe, and talking thru the nite to his wife...explaining/blaming her for absolutely everything. she is living w/her parents; he in his car for the past 2 yrs. after losing their home and destrroying all relationships, except for the 57 yr. woman who is married and in love w/my son, and became my friend" for these last 2 yrs. for his 40 b-day she flew to his car to surprise him and had sex. he left 2 days later and she freaked out, and is keeping him at bay. she knows his disease and is doing whatever she needs to do to keep him away from the stable life she has. odd, she hasn't called me since....now she is manipulating our family...his wife, etc. by trying to say that i am not stable and they should not speak to me. not to worry, she is desparately afraid that i will tell her hubby. i am sad but i see. my son is so far gone that he thinks she is almost God speaking, so he will do what she tells him. oh my, she is going to find that when the BP strikes her, all will be out of her control. leather and lace is my song too. thank you for your loving words....i will try to get his wife here too. stay strong, my new friend.....xo, rishi
how are you all doing? I've been thinking about you all. I'm hoping that things are at least handleable on your side. I've been having ups and downs since my last post--kind of like this.... Hard to know which way is up sometimes, eh? I know you guys know what I am talking about!! Well, since then I have gotten another raise at work, the second in 6 months--what can I say, I'm good!! hahaha------just kidding. But it has definitely helped since my husband has been gone for almost 2 months and I have decided to live on my own. I don't think I could handle a roommate right now--except I live in Calgary and it is VERY expensive. But I am managing. My husband has been calling me, a step up from just e-mail, but it has only been 3-4 times yet, and wanted me to join MSN chat---I did, but I think I pushed to far on there. It got to a point of talking about the "relationship" and I just don't know when to say when. I had thought that things were looking up. When he would call, in the beginning it was hate and anger, that turned to emotionless talk, which then turned to ALMOST normal or so I thought----soooooo, I assumed I could go further---NO! It sent me back into that bawling stage that I know all too well. BUT, I at least know by that talk that he is still in the same place, just without the anger. He told me once again, that he hoped he wasn't leading me on, because we can only be friends. That's what I was asking for(something to get closer, so he wouldn't drift completely away---I just don't know if he would, and better to be safe.....) He told me he was concentrating on himself, his daughter(he never cared about her that much most other times except when he left me the first time--I don't think he knows how to be a dad or love someone----he never had a role model when he was little--his mother didn't care for him) and his music career. He is also going back to see his counsellor. I don't know if this is good or bad. She is the one I had asked to get him "tested" because I was living with Jeckle and Hyde, she said she would send him to a Pdoc---she didn't do anything. So I just don't know, I feel she may do what my psychologist says to me-----get your own life straightened out, worry about you. That's fine for me, I'm not Bp, I can do both. My Hb may just think she is right. He did say that, that's how he feels RIGHT now, he doesn't know if that will change he can't promise anything. I think he is sort of confused, at least that's how things sound, he keeps saying definites(only friends) and then slips little things in there like he is unsure-------WELL IT'S MAKING ME CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!! But I am trying to wait for this mania to settle, which I thought it was, I was wrong. I have to TRY to be more patient.The waiting continues. The nature of the beast!! See! you guys wouldn't want me to post all the time--you'd have to quit your jobs to READ!!! Sorry for the novel, and the rambling, I just needed to let it all out-I'm not crazy am I? It still sounds like mania, right?
I really feel your pain and I am so sorry you are going thru this. I wish there were something I could say to help, but I know your emotions are raw and your love for your husband is real. This illness is so devastating. I understand what you are saying about the way your man is when he 'stable' vs. not. My husband is BP (we have also been married 11 yrs) and fortunately he is medicated. I know that I could not live with him if he were not. It just does not seem like there are very many success stories without the meds. We also have 2 small children.
If you don't mind me asking, where has your husband gone? Did he move away? Into his own place? In with a friend? Is there anyone that can help you to encourage him to reach out for help? Unfortunately, (and I do know this from personal experience) there is no way to rationalize with him while he is manic. This is a very difficult and painful thing for someone who is rational and looking at this situation with a clear mind. In your heart, I'm sure you know your husband's love for you, and you know what he is really like when he is 'himself'. No one else knows that but you and he, so this becomes a very personal situation where you have to make your own choices about how much is too much,...or if you are willing to hold on to him while he is gone, and have hope (which you should always have)...then in the meantime you have to work on taking care of yourself. When he crashes or comes to his senses...that will be your opportunity to tell him how you feel about him and encourage him to seek treatment.
Have you tried seeing a therapist for yourself yet? It may help. I go on my own, and my husband goes on his own. It is helping. There are definetely rough patches even when your spouse is medicated, I think part of this is because my husband has never been on the IDEAL combo of meds...as of yet. Now he has a new pdoc and we are hoping for the best, he is going thru the same 'trial by error', etc...that everyone else looking for meds seems to. It's frustrating, and feels like a long road.
I just want to lend you support and some insight from my own experience. We are all here for you. Hang in there and hopefully your husband will reach out to you soon.
Thank you so much 4support. Unfortunately it is needed from time to time with this disorder. You just never know where it will throw you or when. I am seeing a psychologist myself, and have been for about 2 months now. I went for my depression that I have had most of my life, and my husband was seeing his own as well--2 months ago. But my sessions soon turned from why I was going to my crisis with coming home to find him gone and a note that said---"it's better this way", with his wedding ring on top of it. I have gotten myself somewhat straightened around--finances and out of crisis, but when I keep hearing those hurtful words from him, it sends me back down---even though I know it is Bp. But that disorder is predictable yet so UN predictable. He has moved to the city in which he works---it is only 20 min. away from this one. He has moved in with a couple of work buddies, and said he signed a 6 mo. lease(new condo) And NO, there is no one that would help me to help him, I think from what he has told everyone that it is mostly my fault and they believe him. I tried to talk to one of his buddies from work to help things for us and talk to him and right away he ran to my Hb, and told him. I was then scolded from My Hb, so I laid off. Right now he told me he was going to start to go back to his counsellor, I don't know what this will bring. She didn't help before, so it's a wait and see situation. And no there is no reasoning with him right now, I thought it was time , but he sounds the same, just no hate in his voice for me, a little anger if I talk about "us". So all I can do is wait, I will, for now I love him with all my heart. And if you can love someone this much through all of this(for a second time!) Than it definitely is a deep love!
These serious mental illnesses can affect the part of the brain that allows people to recognize when and if they are sick; and, as a result, they do not realize that something is wrong with them. It sounds like you guys need to develop closer ties with the doctors and social workers who are doing the treatment. You have to get past privacy protections but that can be done. You also should probably contact your daughter's school and let them know what is going on. There is no sense hiding the information from people who are dealing with your daughter, she is sick and they should keep an eye on her, modify her school schedule if needed, and so forth. IF you do that she will not be able to accuse you the way she has. Also let you family doctor know. You are certain to run into situations where you are going to need his help. His job is to know the community medical situation and advise you where you can get additional help for your daughter....where the agencies are that deal with this. He has dealt with this in the past, and should know what works best
I am so happy you are seeing a therapist, do you feel it is helping? You sound very strong in your latest posts.
The unpredictability is also what I find to be the most devastating part of this illness. Everything is wonderful (darn near perfect) when my husband is stable, then literally out of the blue...with no warning...he will wake up one day and be 'off'. His manic cycles (which usually last for weeks before he'll get in to the doc) comprise of him being 'on edge', argumentative, irritable and hard to approach and talk about anything. He gets angry, says hurtful things, distorts conversations completely and all of a sudden everything becomes my fault, when I am still the same person I always have been, and the week before he was telling me I was a 'dream wife' and how kind and supportive I am, etc...etc...frankly, it has ME on eggshells now (until he finally becomes stable) because I never know what to expect, and have a responsibility to maintain a level of normalcy and peace in our home, for our 2 young children, and for myself. I am in therapy, but I need to work on understanding how to see what he believes and what he doesn't believe, he says so many different things between his manic phases. It is very confusing! I find myself questioning many things he says, and not able to fully embrace the good times because I'm always wondering if an episode is lurking around the corner. This is very difficult for me because by nature I am a pretty outgoing, positive person who really enjoys my children and life, and everything life has to offer!
I completely understand what you are saying about the deep love your husband and you share. And you should believe in that and keep hope that he will finally realize that he needs ongoing treatment to feel better. Does he accept that he has this illness? I am just wondering because I think that makes it slightly easier. It's driving me crazy that my husband accepts the dx one minute, then 'questions' it the next. Oh well, I guess as long as he continues to see his therapist/pdoc, eventually hopefully it will sink in, and most importantly, at least he takes his meds.
L&L, I know your world is in turmoil. Hang in there, and it sounds as though things may be shifting a little if your husband is calling you more often. I would just encourage him to continue with therapy and seeing the pdoc. I also don't have anyone to help me with my husband, so I understand that as well. Makes it harder. My MIL doesn't really understand the diagnosis, seems to be in denial as well, and tells my husband to 'calm down'. If it were only that easy...
hi l&l.....i am searching for words. the oness that come to me first are that you are not alone, ...and there is no stability in an undiagnosed, un-well-medicated-in denial bp person. also too true, the fault/response/ability is never theirs...and in real life that is not even a possiblity. my daughter (in-law) has been so steadfast for 16 yrs. along w/his 12 yr. old daughter....then, after being so hurt...scared...betrayed..to hell and back....received his call from the road abandining them, wanting to be friends, talking to him all thru the night...he could not sleep....she is finally in therapy. her therapist has a bp x-husband. the disease is too complex compared to our current knowledge. my son called me from the road, and wanting only to get him to this area safely, i spent hours and hours , listening to his manic thinking. he is 40, and was sobbing and calling me mommy. he said he would be here at 2, and we had a room ready, he went to his brothers' and that was 4 weeks ago, and 25 minutes from here. he is not speaking to me now....for whatever his own reasons are......just so you know, you are not alone. so sorry, w/love, rishi
Just like you my husband has said a number of times "what did I do to deserve you because I would do it all over again" or "I wouldn't change a hair on your head, I love you just the way you are", and the latter one was said to me just a week or two before he left! It's predictable in that they seem to become angry and hateful of the person or people they are closest with when they are manic. But it's unpredictable in when it will happen, what will trigger it, or how long it will last. He doesn't know that he is Bp yet. He has not been dx'd , I tried to get his therapist, or our Dr. to do that--but they hadn't. I definitely agree that if he knew(when he is stable) that it would certainly help--at least some of the time. It has helped me to know because I understand some of the things he has done in the past as well as this running he does, I DON'T blame myself anymore; and it is so much easier to forgive now that I know; where as I did hold hurtful things in my heart---not completely forgiving them before. But I now know that it is out of his control.
It's so hard to not have any family or friends support, especially when his two nephews are going to a Pdoc right now to be dx'd--so it does run in the family, his dad to, but no one thinks that it could be an illness. Even living with the craziness for the 11 years now, I was just starting to think that it had to be something, because some of the things just are NOT normal behavior. As far as things shifting------I'm pretty sure they were but I jumped the gun and hope that I didn't send him to far back, because we WERE moving forward, he no longer seemed angry and now talking to him last night, he seems very irritable and was a little angry towards me. I wish you so much luck with your husband that he will continue with his therapy and meds. I know that that makes a huge difference; and especially since you have children---I don't so I only have to worry about me. Take care, I hope you keep in touch too, this has been my support system, so you will see me quite a bit.
Hi; Rishi, unfortunately I am not alone, there are so many people afflicted with this disorder, it's so sad. I am glad your daughter-in-law is seeing a therapist, and obviously will get a better understanding of the illness, and come to realize that these things are the Bp---not him, I hope that you are aware of that as well as I am sure this is effecting you too. He will eventually crash off the mania, but it's anyones guess when. You are all in my heart, I hope you continue to take care of yourselves, and I will talk to you all soon.
Well you sound like you are doing everything you possibly can at the moment for yourself, and to deal with the situation the best you can. Just stay strong and take this one day at a time. I hear you loud and clear about the lack of support, unfortunately I am in pretty much the same situation, however I have recently confided in two close friends about my husband's moods/depression, but not all the details. Hang in there, things are always evolving and moving forward so something will have to change. You also keep in touch, I'm on here pretty frequently these days and I will help you as much as I can!
I have been reading your posts as well and so sorry you are going thru this with your son, and sorry for your son's family, it is just near impossible to get thru to an unmedicated BP person when they are manic. (it would be helpful to you to read some of paulgarrets posts on this forum, he explains in brutal detail how he was during a bout of mania). I understand the devastation you and his wife/daughter are feeling. Going to therapy is the BEST thing your daughter-in-law can do for herself and their daughter, for this is a HARD illness to understand. It would even be good for you, although you can learn lots from reading and on this forum too. I have been married for 11 yrs to my husband who was dx with BP/ADHD 3 yrs ago. Fortunately, he is medicated and now in consistent therapy, but it has been a long road, and still not sure the meds are ideal yet. I love him deeply and we also have 2 young children, so I was willing to stick it out during his worst manic episode which was 3 yrs ago, and several less severe ones since. He has also struggled with depression. I never in my wildest dreams thought these illnesses would become such a large part of our life. Although I realize life is not supposed to be a breeze, this disorder can be particularly cruel and damaging to the family if not treated as quickly as possible. This is a wonderful support forum as we have all been there and can relate in one way or another. Keep writing...thoughts and prayers go out to you...take care.
hi L&L...thinking of you. 4 support, hi and thanks for your welcome, time and info....it is all seeping in. i have gone through all the old posts, but cannot find paulgarrets....any ideas? xo and i will b here 4 support 2...rishi
I have been a bit quiet recently, but I have been reading your posts, and everyone elses, and thinking of you all. Rishi - your son is lucky to have you. Your are brave and strong, there is a difference between bravery and denial, and I think when children are concerned - it is hard to see for many.
Paul reponded to one of my postings - try searching under threads that I started, and you will find pauls reponse on mania. It was incredible informative.
Take care, and chat soon.