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Old 03-25-2007, 05:00 PM   #1
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deedeehurtn HB User
Question can you answer this question on tough love?

my husband must be in a manic phae of bi-polar and he left me again for the thrid time, when he does this is kills me and after a couple of days he calls and loves me and wants to be friends not sure if he wants a divorce or not and starts to push the blame on me... well i usually cry and sob and beg for him not to rush a divorce before we can really try counseling or give it our all before he throws in the towel... i cry and repeatly ask did you really mean all the nasty things you said to me, how can you hurt me... etc,etc, but as hard as it been even though he's only been gone for 3 days. i haven't a clue where he's at or if he is alive or dead, but i refuse to call this time- but what i need to know will tough love work??? meaning when he calls acts as if i have accepted this and am moving on.... i will not discuss who said what, or did what, our hurt feelings, etc. he ususally always mention let's get together and talk about how we are going to settle things out as far as the lawyers(only to get me upset) whichusually ends up nasty and me crying cause he says i deserve nothing. but when he does this this time- i'am just gonna tell him to do what he needs to do and i can't continue to do this anymore and cut the convo. short???? then maybe he'll realize i'am done and if he really doesn't want this ( don't think he does ) then he'll seek help or do whatever it is to not to lose me??????? i'am at my wits end and soooo tired of him seeing me hurting and crying- when he sees me this way he says ok here we go w/ the drama and he becomes more heartless and cold???? the pain i feel right now is killing me- he makes me feel worthless

 
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Old 03-25-2007, 05:23 PM   #2
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Re: can you answer this question on tough love?

Hi, DeeDee First you are not worthless...okay!!!

Now, to me it sounds as if your husband is not on meds or if he is, is not taking them as he should...am I right??? If so....he is continue to go through these cycles and you are going to be to blame. I think that in the given circumstances if this is the third time he has done this and it is still going on then it will continue until something changes. They say that "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting there to be a different outcome." So...something has got to change.

One ~ would be for your husband to get the help that he needs and to be stabilized OR

Two ~ would be for you to tell your husband that you have had enough of this, that he needs help and if he doesn't get it as far as you are concerned the next time he leaves he has no place to come back to.

YOu must realize that when your husband is unmedicated his actions and thinking is somewhat irrational. He REALLY truly thinks that what he thinks is RIGHT....so there is no way that you can convince him otherwise. You need to disengage yourself from all arguments....just keep it short and sweet telling him that his behavior is unacceptable and things are going to have to change or you are gone. The thing is, you MUST do what you say....you must set clear boundaries and act upon what you say. So that is where you have to really think. If he runs away again are you prepared to change the locks and do whatever you have to in order to not take him back in??? Perhaps notifying one of his family members beforehand will help out so that they know that this is what you intend on doing. If he blames you just in one sentence say that his behavior is what is to blame and that you did nothing to contribute to it. And then walk away. If he continues to harass you, tell him that he is invadidng your personal space and to either go to another room or that you will. And then walk away. If it gets worse take a drive and go somewhere to calm down.

This is not going to be easy....but yes, tough love is most likely the way to go. The thing is....often what is the case is that deep down inside they do feel shame & remorse but seeing that they are fighting a force within themselves that is often difficult to control often just has them repeating the same behavior over and over again. The meds help with this quite a bit and then it becomes easier for them to manage and change their behaviors but without the meds it is quite difficult to do so. The thing to remember is that fighting with your husband is only adding fuel to a fire. Disengaging yourself from the heat of the moment usually works out best. Allow him to ride it out and tell him that he needs to go calm down...in a stern and clear voice.

I hope this helps....I don't know if it is good to call him...I would break the pattern and he will know that you are more aware of what to do in order to handle this. You must stay as strong as you can and let him know that you love him but he needs to find help in order for this marriage to continue on.

At a calm moment when he comes down is the best time to say all of this. When he first comes back tell him that you are glad that he is safe but things must change and then give him time and space to digest that.

I hope some of this helps....hang in there and try to take care of yourself...that is so important.

((((HUGS))))) ~ Goody

 
Old 03-25-2007, 05:23 PM   #3
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Re: can you answer this question on tough love?

Dee Dee I know your hurting so much and I really feel for you having gone through similar. It is my understanding that when they are manic and without meds you cannot reason with them so it might be better not to try. I know I fell into that trap of asking him all kinds of questions and wanting answers but it backfired on me. I also tried tough love and that didn't work. I wish I had better answers for you but if hes like my husband I beleive under it all he loves you. People have told me on here that they lack insight so they cannot always see what they are doing. I wish I could help you with your pain. This has been going on for me for 8 years or more.

 
Old 03-25-2007, 05:51 PM   #4
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Unhappy Re: can you answer this question on tough love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goody2shuz View Post
Hi, DeeDee First you are not worthless...okay!!!

Now, to me it sounds as if your husband is not on meds or if he is, is not taking them as he should...am I right??? If so....he is continue to go through these cycles and you are going to be to blame. I think that in the given circumstances if this is the third time he has done this and it is still going on then it will continue until something changes. They say that "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting there to be a different outcome." So...something has got to change.

One ~ would be for your husband to get the help that he needs and to be stabilized OR

Two ~ would be for you to tell your husband that you have had enough of this, that he needs help and if he doesn't get it as far as you are concerned the next time he leaves he has no place to come back to.

YOu must realize that when your husband is unmedicated his actions and thinking is somewhat irrational. He REALLY truly thinks that what he thinks is RIGHT....so there is no way that you can convince him otherwise. You need to disengage yourself from all arguments....just keep it short and sweet telling him that his behavior is unacceptable and things are going to have to change or you are gone. The thing is, you MUST do what you say....you must set clear boundaries and act upon what you say. So that is where you have to really think. If he runs away again are you prepared to change the locks and do whatever you have to in order to not take him back in??? Perhaps notifying one of his family members beforehand will help out so that they know that this is what you intend on doing. If he blames you just in one sentence say that his behavior is what is to blame and that you did nothing to contribute to it. And then walk away. If he continues to harass you, tell him that he is invadidng your personal space and to either go to another room or that you will. And then walk away. If it gets worse take a drive and go somewhere to calm down.

This is not going to be easy....but yes, tough love is most likely the way to go. The thing is....often what is the case is that deep down inside they do feel shame & remorse but seeing that they are fighting a force within themselves that is often difficult to control often just has them repeating the same behavior over and over again. The meds help with this quite a bit and then it becomes easier for them to manage and change their behaviors but without the meds it is quite difficult to do so. The thing to remember is that fighting with your husband is only adding fuel to a fire. Disengaging yourself from the heat of the moment usually works out best. Allow him to ride it out and tell him that he needs to go calm down...in a stern and clear voice.

I hope this helps....I don't know if it is good to call him...I would break the pattern and he will know that you are more aware of what to do in order to handle this. You must stay as strong as you can and let him know that you love him but he needs to find help in order for this marriage to continue on.

At a calm moment when he comes down is the best time to say all of this. When he first comes back tell him that you are glad that he is safe but things must change and then give him time and space to digest that.

I hope some of this helps....hang in there and try to take care of yourself...that is so important.

((((HUGS))))) ~ Goody
thanks so much for those powerful words.as hard as it is i refuse to call him... he left about three days ago and i haven't hread a word from him. he has been hurt w/ abandonment his whole life- his mother has been living in a assistant living since he was 7 cause she is a sereve shiz.?bi-polar--- his step mom who partically raised him walked out on his dad when he was in his 20's and then his x-wife left ( had an affair) so he relates to even tiny disagreements w/ i want a divorce throws off his wedding band and leaves or tells me to get the f--- out... hatefully!!!!! he uses his wedding band as a dealy weapond...
i can not express enpugh to you thanks for telling me that i too, need to break the pattern ( by calling) i almost broke down today and did it, almost (*67) to block my # and called him, almost went to a pay phone down the street to call him... just to hear his voice and hear the tone in his voice- if he was sad or etc., he;s not on any meds. he called my sister on friday trying to say he's this type of persin because of me and as long as he's married to me he'll never change- he told her he doesn't like what he's become and how he's been drinking so much- last week he was drunk for 6 days striagth from sun up to sun down!!!!! but he told her he is going to start counseling.. (blames me for him being like he is) he's alos having a tough time cause he's about to retire from the military after 25 years ( his a master chief/master diver) and i beleive he's regretting his discussion- he's like a fish out of water. he's been in the military since he was 18 years old. i did tell him when he walked out that it isn't fair for me to have to deal and if he walks out please make sure this is what he wants cause he can't keep doing this to me- let me go through this once not everytime his like this. he said this is what he wants and left!!!! maybe this is what is killing me- i know i can't let him play on my heart anymore--- i have to break the pattern--- and i'am afraid if i do then i'll push him further away but deep down i know his already there. the more i read about this which i'am new at the more i learn and what i've learned is i think this disease is harder on the love ones then it is on the actual sick person... why? it isn't fair???

 
Old 03-25-2007, 05:56 PM   #5
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Re: can you answer this question on tough love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marshmallow View Post
Dee Dee I know your hurting so much and I really feel for you having gone through similar. It is my understanding that when they are manic and without meds you cannot reason with them so it might be better not to try. I know I fell into that trap of asking him all kinds of questions and wanting answers but it backfired on me. I also tried tough love and that didn't work. I wish I had better answers for you but if hes like my husband I beleive under it all he loves you. People have told me on here that they lack insight so they cannot always see what they are doing. I wish I could help you with your pain. This has been going on for me for 8 years or more.
8 years? gosh how did you do it???? you must be the strongest person i know!!!! how long have you 2 been seperated? do you still hurt? and can you walk away and move on yet??? i know what doesn't kill you makes you stronger but gosh i feel as if this is.... my chest feels sooooo heavy!!!! i wished i could just get mad! i have no other choice but tough love cause what i've been learning and from this site- it's gonna be repeated-- if he fears he's losing me he'll want to do what ever it takes to save our marriage... even if it's for my self pride i can no longer let him know he can hurt me, or see my cry... he plays on that

 
Old 03-25-2007, 06:17 PM   #6
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twoeyez HB Usertwoeyez HB User
Re: can you answer this question on tough love?

deedee :

Well Marsh and Goody will tell you I don't beat around any bushes with BPD. [I] know your hurting with your DH.

Go to Mashe"s thread for my last comments.

Eyes

 
Old 03-26-2007, 04:16 AM   #7
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Re: can you answer this question on tough love?

DeeDee, the reason I took it for so long was because the abuse took away a part of me and I became sick too. Living with this illness (unmedicated) will rob you of who you are and make you forget what you want out of life. I put up with being called names, raged at and having my house wrecked. I was told it was my fault even to this day he says he drinks because of me. Don't let this take away who you are and what you deserve in a marriage. We all deserve to be loved and RESPECTED. At some point they have to take responsibility for what they do and stop blaming others. If they dont then they do not deserve a relationship. I still fall and am weak hoping he will start to see what he has done and take meds but most of the time now I KNOW it might never happen and I have to protect myself from more damage to my heart and soul. I know it is not easy to give up on a marriage but sometimes their is no other choice. You will know what to do in time. I hope he wakes up before its too late for both of you. Take care of yourself at this time especially. This is very draining on you.

 
Old 03-26-2007, 05:00 AM   #8
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emeraldeyes114 HB User
Re: can you answer this question on tough love?

I want to add this rather then repeat the good advice the others have given. I think with Bipolar people (though not all of them and the includes moi) it is easier to lay the blame on someone else then to think there is something wrong with you. So it is easier to blame someone that you love dearly rather then to think you are the one that needs the help. I think disease taints at times they way they perceive things and so forth. Take care of yourself and do the best you can.

Emerald

 
Old 03-26-2007, 05:14 AM   #9
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twoeyez HB Usertwoeyez HB User
Re: can you answer this question on tough love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marshmallow View Post
DeeDee, the reason I took it for so long was because the abuse took away a part of me and I became sick too. Living with this illness (unmedicated) will rob you of who you are and make you forget what you want out of life. I put up with being called names, raged at and having my house wrecked. I was told it was my fault even to this day he says he drinks because of me. Don't let this take away who you are and what you deserve in a marriage. We all deserve to be loved and RESPECTED. At some point they have to take responsibility for what they do and stop blaming others. If they dont then they do not deserve a relationship. I still fall and am weak hoping he will start to see what he has done and take meds but most of the time now I KNOW it might never happen and I have to protect myself from more damage to my heart and soul. I know it is not easy to give up on a marriage but sometimes their is no other choice. You will know what to do in time. I hope he wakes up before its too late for both of you. Take care of yourself at this time especially. This is very draining on you.
Marsh & Deedee :

Sometimes I feel I'm just a broken record : I keep talking about how a BPer has to be RESPONSIBLE for their own actions. Admit they have BPD, and get the proper meds and tharapy !

At the same time, Their spouse needs full RESPECT. And they need to know that they may not receive it from a manic BPer. Therefore, they need to give themselve RESPECT.....It comes down to Respect yourself FIRST,before you can ever Respect or Support your BPer spouse.

So many times a unmedicated BPer will pull the "blame game" out,and try to hurt his/her spouse. (and as Emerald said ..that is really sad). . The BPers are only hurting themselves

Carry On ...the best you know how..

Eyes

Last edited by twoeyez; 03-26-2007 at 05:19 AM.

 
Old 03-26-2007, 04:21 PM   #10
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marshmallow HB User
Re: can you answer this question on tough love?

Eyes everything you say is worth repeating so keep it up. We need to hear it over and over. You are an inspiration.

 
Old 03-26-2007, 04:57 PM   #11
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Re: can you answer this question on tough love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marshmallow View Post
Eyes everything you say is worth repeating so keep it up. We need to hear it over and over. You are an inspiration.
Hi All,

I have been quiet again - I have been reading, and listening, just focusing on other stuff at the moment.
Marsh, Ditto your comment above. Eyes, thank you for always making comments, and thank you for bringing some sense to these threads.
D,
I feel your pain, and I understand where you are coming from (as do most on these threads) I too have had a very similar case recently. I opted for tough love. His response has been to destroy me personally, professionally, financially, and stop me from moving on with my life in any way.

I have been through the non tough love option once before, and although I didnt suffer this amount of anger directed at me. It caused me more personal pain, confusion, and left more baggage.

I havent called him (its nearly been 5 months) in repsonse, he has changed his phone numbers.(I have access to them, but Im not going to call) I know that any contact will just be to try to hurt me further. Im not going there this time.

My life at the moment is hell. It will get better, but at the moment I am the sole punching bag. I am soley responsible for all the problems in his life, and he is going to make my life miserable to pay for that.

What eyes said, is right on. In the end you have to keep hold of yourself. You have to be your own person. If you don't you lose yourself. Your husbands problems are his, and he needs to sort through them. If you open yourself up to more emotional abuse, he learns that this cycle works, and will never see there is a problem.

It will not be easy, and it will hurt. But you need to do this for yourself and for the man that you fell in love with. You will get through this and you will be stronger and happier. And we are all here to help in any way we can.

Take care of yourself.

 
Old 03-26-2007, 06:37 PM   #12
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marshmallow HB User
Re: can you answer this question on tough love?

suddenly there I am sorry things are still going so badly for you. It is so difficult to go throug this stuff. I think it is hard to understand how a man that once loved you can try to make your life so miserable. I hope things get better for you soon.

 
Old 03-26-2007, 06:58 PM   #13
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deedeehurtn HB User
Exclamation Re: can you answer this question on tough love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EYESTWO22 View Post
Marsh & Deedee :

Sometimes I feel I'm just a broken record : I keep talking about how a BPer has to be RESPONSIBLE for their own actions. Admit they have BPD, and get the proper meds and tharapy !

At the same time, Their spouse needs full RESPECT. And they need to know that they may not receive it from a manic BPer. Therefore, they need to give themselve RESPECT.....It comes down to Respect yourself FIRST,before you can ever Respect or Support your BPer spouse.

So many times a unmedicated BPer will pull the "blame game" out,and try to hurt his/her spouse. (and as Emerald said ..that is really sad). . The BPers are only hurting themselves

Carry On ...the best you know how..

Eyes
yes it would be nice and easier for them to show that they are emotionaless... i'am breaking tha pattern today... i didn't feed into or cry... but i feel he'll continue to do things to make sure i'am kept in the hurt locker i had a bad day today please read my new thread/post and advice me-- help

 
Old 03-26-2007, 06:59 PM   #14
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twoeyez HB Usertwoeyez HB User
Re: can you answer this question on tough love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suddenlyhere View Post
Hi All,
......... Eyes, thank you for always making comments, and thank you for bringing some sense to these threads.

What eyes said, is right on. In the end you have to keep hold of yourself. You have to be your own person. If you don't you lose yourself. Your husbands problems are his, and he needs to sort through them. If you open yourself up to more emotional abuse, he learns that this cycle works, and will never see there is a problem.....................

It will not be easy.........
It is never Easy......Suddenly................

However, my Dear Lady....

You are the Best...to yourself...First...
And that's what's counts in the ....LONG RUN.

Deedee,,,listen to what is ......"SUDDENLY" said here

As a long time BPer,I Respect you.. so much...I hope and pray that your messages somehow gets through to your DH.

Suddenly.....YOU GO GIRL.....

Carry On,

Eyes

 
Old 03-26-2007, 07:05 PM   #15
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deedeehurtn HB User
Re: can you answer this question on tough love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suddenlyhere View Post
Hi All,

I have been quiet again - I have been reading, and listening, just focusing on other stuff at the moment.
Marsh, Ditto your comment above. Eyes, thank you for always making comments, and thank you for bringing some sense to these threads.
D,
I feel your pain, and I understand where you are coming from (as do most on these threads) I too have had a very similar case recently. I opted for tough love. His response has been to destroy me personally, professionally, financially, and stop me from moving on with my life in any way.

I have been through the non tough love option once before, and although I didnt suffer this amount of anger directed at me. It caused me more personal pain, confusion, and left more baggage.

I havent called him (its nearly been 5 months) in repsonse, he has changed his phone numbers.(I have access to them, but Im not going to call) I know that any contact will just be to try to hurt me further. Im not going there this time.

My life at the moment is hell. It will get better, but at the moment I am the sole punching bag. I am soley responsible for all the problems in his life, and he is going to make my life miserable to pay for that.

What eyes said, is right on. In the end you have to keep hold of yourself. You have to be your own person. If you don't you lose yourself. Your husbands problems are his, and he needs to sort through them. If you open yourself up to more emotional abuse, he learns that this cycle works, and will never see there is a problem.

It will not be easy, and it will hurt. But you need to do this for yourself and for the man that you fell in love with. You will get through this and you will be stronger and happier. And we are all here to help in any way we can.

Take care of yourself.
i never tried the tough love thing til today... and today not one time did he blame me,or was mean, or called me names or hung up on me!!!! the longest we go w/out any contact has been 3-4 days .. and it's been 3 so he called he's only been out the house since weds. came here friday when i wasn't here to pack his things up--- seems like he used ever excuse to call me today... then when i wouldn't feed into it he called and wanting to discuss seperation papers- wanted to agree who gets what so he can write it all down on a piece of paper and take to the lawyers, i refused and told him this is his show for him to do what he thinks is fair and right!!!! just when i thought i could get through another day!!!! what kills me is i know for a fact he doesn't want this cause he was acting jealous today about certain things or who am i gonna be hanging out with

 
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