Hi everybody....most of you know me and the road I have been down....it's been quite a journey with many bumps in the road and it seems that we've been down the most difficult part but only to have to start the journey all over again. For those of you who may be unfamiliar with my situation I will give you some history. And for those who have been on the journey with me already, thank you for all your love and support, for without it I wouldn't have had the courage or strength to have made it this far. I am hoping that you will be there again as I begin the journey again.
I have 2 daughters....one who is 16, Erin, who was diagnosed with BP/ADD (inattentive type) a little over a year ago. She is on Lamictal & Seroquel which seem to be a good combo for her and it seems we are at a good place now in terms of stability. It took us a while to get to where we are now but it finally seems that we are beginning to see some "light at the end of the tunnel", something we thought would never happen for us. We know that there will still be some hardships to face down the road but we have learned quite a bit and are hoping that we have made it through the worst of it.
Anyway, I have another daughter, who is 18, Kait, who has exhibited behaviors which had us concerned well before our younger daughter was diagnosed. Not knowing any better we attributed it to the ''rebellious teenage behavior", that is, until our younger daughter was diagnosed. Once we knew what we were dealing with and learned more about BP and ADD our concerns for our older daughter grew and we discussed them with her. She didn't want any part of it....we shared with her our strong family history that included two uncles with addictions, a paternal grandfather who was a recovering alcoholic and her maternal great-grandmother who was an alcoholic and also had a history of Manic-Depression. Still she continued to refuse to acknowledge that she may have a problem despite her ongoing problems....her behaviors consisted of severe irritability, agitation, anger, lying and manipulative behavior as well as partaking in impulsive sometimes risky behavior.
Since the age of 14 she has run away, not adhered to basic household rules, cursed and gotten angry to the point of even punching her father at one time. When she was 15 she was working a job which she became somewhat obsessed with and we discovered when her behavior was at it's worst that she was taking diet pills with Ephedra so that she would have the energy she needed to go to school and work. She also did impulsive things such as sneak vodka bottles up to her room while we were entertaining friends and serving her friends shots of vodka in her closet...all while we were home in the same house.
When 17 she lived with my brother to increase her chances of getting into her first choice college. After the "honeymoon period" she took her car for a joy ride out of state getting stuck at 1 am in the morning, got arrested and suspended for underage drinking at school, and stayed out nights without calling or letting us know where she was. So the behaviors seemed to follow her where ever she went. On the good side she was doing well in school, graduated High School with Honors and got an Academic Scholarship to college and acceptance into their honors program.
She went away to college but before she did we insisted on a psychiatric evaluation. She was still 17 at the time and we so wanted to be part of whatever was going on and still being able to have some say in her health. We knew that our time was running out since she would be 18 only a matter of a few weeks of starting college.
She managed to "snow" the pdoc (which we have learned isn't unusual) and she went off to college with us worried about what would happen. Our only comfort came in knowing that if something were happening it would be a matter of time before it would come to a head & we all knew it. However, we were concerned for her overall safety.
She just finished up her first year making the Dean's list and will continue to be eligible for the Honors Program. Our prayers were somewhat answered when we received a call from Kait during her last trimester telling us that she thought something was wrong and that she might have ADD.
Kait went on to tell me that she had a big problem with concentrating in her classes, that it seemed that her mind was always on something else and she couldn't pay attention or take notes. And that she was having a terrible time sleeping at night....sometimes getting up and working on her computer or doing something else because she couldn't sleep. She also told me that her friends were also telling her that something was wrong that needed to be checked out. Later on she told me that cold medications like Nyquil made her almost hallucinate and that scared her. She met with a counselor at her college but never went on to be evaluated because she had come down with Mono and was sick for a while.
So we made an appointment with my younger daughter's pdoc....it is quickly approaching and is in another 6 days. I find myself getting scared and anxious as the day approaches. Why???
Well first of all I am somewhat concerned about what exactly is going on with Kait. There are times that she seems to have some normalcy but these times a far and few between. I know something is up but part of me feels that perhaps there isn't. A big part of my fears stem from my concerns and knowledge that Kait parties....she lives for parties and I know that she smokes weed too. So adding meds to that worries me. Also....there was a time when she was IMing with one of her suitemates and the girl used the term "I could really use an Adderall rush right about now". That had all sorts of red flags going up....I can't help but wonderi if Kait's sudden need to see a psychiatrist has another agenda or hers to meet. I have all intentions of sharing my concerns about this with the pdoc but also don't want to ruin my chances of having some say in Kait's healthcare. She has agreed to sign papers so that I can meet with her and the pdoc and have some say on what happens with her but I am afraid that if I say anything that upsets her she will deny me that right.
Second.....with Kait there have been no definitive depressive episodes Like I have seen with Erin...I know that irritability and agitation can be symptoms of both mania and depression but I see more hyperactivity and impulsiveness in Kait's behavior along with the anger, frustration and agitiation so I am more inclined to think that she has more of an ADD/ADHD thing going on. But there is the alcohol and drug use....adding a stimulant to that scares me. Kait seems to be functional as far as getting good grades and working her job....it's just the constant going and impulsive/risky behavior that concerns me. I am not sure...with Erin I was sure, she was cutting, and had two suicide attempts so it was easier to accept her diagnosis and need for intervention. With Kait I have my doubts but there is a constant inner turmoil going on within me feeling that something is just not right.
Okay...so here we are and I am starting to get scared. I don't know if I am prepared to go through this all again. I am mostly afraid of making the wrong decision.
Any advice??? Thank you for reading through another one of my lengthy posts....it is so difficult to keep it short and sweet.
Thanks again to all you wonderful people for your constant love & support.
You have given us so many that giving some back seems appropriate. I have been reading and thinking a lot about what you mentioned in what you said. I can't say with a def. on anything for Bipolar does act differently in everyone. Perhaps Eyes or Tsohl or one of the others will see better or clearer. I wonder if it is possible that she might be more Borderline Personality either with or without Bipolar.
I was thinking that with the more risky behaviors though it can happen with Bipolar as well. Then the manipulative behavior that you mentioned can also be a part of either or. I am glad that she is letting you be a part of this. Perhaps this is her acknowledging in part that she can't do this alone or without you being a part of it. Fearing taht something might be wrong is one thing and a scary thing. I know that going down this road with her is one you will do with the same strength, courage, and wisdom that you did with your younger daughter. It is a scary road when you do not for sure the out come but with you in her corner she can't lose.
I know here you are a very vital part of the board. If I could give you more then a hug meaning like real ears that would be the least I could do. Since we can't I hope you will come here for the same support you have so unselfishly given to most of us.
Oh, Deb....thanks for the ((((HUGS)))) and for your insight. I must say if either of my daughters were to fit into what I have read about Borderline it would probably be Erin....with the cutting and difficulty with losses either through death or friendship (abandonment issues) she would fit much more into that than Kait would. Kait just doesn't exhibit those symptoms.
Kait is so impulsive and has to have something going on every minute of the day....her motto for life is "to live it as if it were your very last!!" And that is just what she does. Thing is....I KNOW that teens are busy but Kait has not a minute to talk she has a million things going on at once, either she is spending every minute on the phone, computer, driving in her car, or working with not a minute to spare. She has to have a plan or she is miserable. She doesn't KNOW how to slow down. And she talks about how stressed she is with not enough time to do everything. And if there are no plans or she is bored she is absolutely miserable.
Impulsive behavior....last night she worked until 12 midnight and met up with friends afterwards. When I asked her what she did she said that they went on a scavenger hunt....I found her list and some of the things they had to do were quite risky. Like taking a child in the car and taking their picture, breaking 2 windows, climbing onto a roof, taking a street sign, waking up a family by ringing the doorbell and then taking their picture.....building a fire on somebody's lawn...need I say more??? I was somewhat relieved to see that the most risky things were not crossed off her list but still it really scared me. This is only one night and I am afraid of what else she is doing.
Anyway....I try to have a curfew....it is usually 1am except 2 days a week she has an open curfew in which she either stays over a friend's house or gets in around 3am (that is the latest she has come in all summer).
Well....I just don't know if it is just the times and/or the friends she has picked...seems that she always gravitates towards others with as much energy and impulsivity as she has. I already know that two of her friends have Bipolar and another definitely has ADHD. So...there is a very good chance that she has something going on as well.
It's just scary....she has so much going for her...generally she is a GREAT kid....she really is. She is a wonderful worker and gets great grades at college but I am sooo worried about her lack of judgement sometimes and the amount of energy that she has and what she does with it.
Thanks for your kind words, Deb and you are most likely right....I will do the same for Kait as I did for Erin but it still is scary because we never really know what the right thing to do is. I just go with my motherly instincts I guess. And hope that I have enough strength to travel down this road yet again. Thanks for walking beside me and for being my friend.
I don't really think she "snowed" the p doc as much as she just wasn't looking for help at that time. If you're not looking for help then for "you" everything is OK.
I just have an issue with the term "snowed". I told my husband about my Mother abusing me as a child and when my Dad found out I had said something he told my husband I had him "snowed". I think the real person that was "snowed" was my Dad. His children were beaten and left with cuts and bruises and he had no idea? Give me a break! My Mom used to make us wear long sleeves to cover the marks she left on our arms. What a JOKE, I know who was "snowed"!
Anywhoo....It was Kaits FRIEND, not Kait, that mentioned the "adderall rush". Maybe Kait mentioned she might have ADD and might be getting some meds after seeing a Dr.? Let me tell you the junkies are attracted to the medicated ADD kids like flies to dog poo. Then again Kait is a smart girl and a little money on the side during the college years (killing two birds with one stone)...satisfying M & D and making some $...???...well...anything is possible.
Lucky ~ I apologize if the word "snowed" was a poor choice of wording on my part. Thing is, Kait walked out of the evaluation "gloating" and said something like...."see you just wasted alot of time and money" to which we replied, "it's never a waste of time and money to help your child out." I do agree that Kait just wasn't ready to accept that something was up at the time. I imagine that it was extremely scary to her thinking that she might end up in the hospital like her sister....she didn't even feel like visiting her sister while she was there.
As far as the Adderall, just to be on the safe side I am going to see if it comes down to Kait needing to be medicated that we keep in mind her potential to abuse meds and choosing ones that will be least likely abused by her or others. I believe that Concerta is one that might be a better choice since it is a slow release form of Ritalin and is less likely to be abused.
I am just keeping things tucked in the back of my mind in order to be well prepared.
Lucky, i see the word snowed upset you a little..I feel the same as goody because my son did the same to his pdoc i just use a diffferent word.. i say he duped his pdoc for benzos and he also duped his dentist for percocets when he was abusing drugs..We mean it in a different way. Im sure you understand now.
Goody, it sounds to me that you are worried about kait getting a script for adderal..do you really think she would go thru this whole evaluation for them? I just dont know, but i will tell you that i know for sure that they are a big thing now on the street. And while i was working in a docs office we had patients that i would say were addicted...They say adderal is not addictive, i disagree. I dont want to scare you at all. Kait definitly is giving you guys a run for your money huh? that game they were playing could have gotten her arrested..you said she was arrested before? does that mean she has a record or is that erased now? Wow, i would hate for you to have to go thru all this crap again...does it ever end???? it really is little kids,little problems...big kids , big problems...
Jules ~ I wouldn't have even thought of the Adderall thing and her mentioning the need to be evaluated as being even related if I hadn't come across that IM. Although she asked for the evaluation months before that while a college and I am sure that if she really wanted to get it she would have gone about getting the evaluation through her school. I don't know....most likely it isn't that but with everything that goes on I have no idea what her motives are, whether they are sincere or not. I don't know....Kait seems to be really stressed out lately with the job and seeing her friends. But today when she seemed to be having a hard time of it she asked me when her appointment with the psychiatrist is so I think that she is beginning to see that there is something up....we'll have to see.
And yes....the activities could land her in jail. The arrest took place in another state and they were suppose to drop it but she just got notification that she has to waive a court appearance and do some community service as well as take a course on abusing alcohol. This all happened when she was 17 so it was in teen court. But that doesn't minimize things....I am sure that she will have a record if she keeps on putting herself in those situations. Hubby told her that she better save her money because if she lands herself in jail we are not bailing her out. She may be an honor student but she really doesn't have much common sense. That's what scares me, Jules.....she doesn't seem to think before she acts.
Could this all be due to ADD or BP or is it willingful behavior??? It's all so scary but it is difficult to tie her down and lock her up. She is working her job and putting her paychecks in the bank as agreed upon so I don't have much to complain about there. It's just her judgement that is off.
The curfews are working out....she comes home on the nights she is off with an exception here or there. Like tonight...she works but asked to go to a friends to celebrate her birthday and spend the night. She works tomorrow at 4pm and I told her so long as she doesn't blow off work it would be okay.
The only other nights she has been out are her nights off which are two nights a week. And she is getting home at decent times or spending the night at a friend's house here or there. Soon she will be travelling to get her house ready on her days off.... they officially lease it on August 1st and she intends to go meet up with her housemates to figure out who brings what etc.
So how is your son tonight??? I hope that there are no more fights going on. I feel so bad for all the worries you are going through....I sure hope he gets that job now that the doctor's note is all settled.
I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed that you hear something soon.
Goody, i am going to be honest with you about something.. could it be that kait has too much freedom? since we have daughters the same age i can relate to alot of her antics..but, i feel at this age they do not need sleepovers, to me that just means they are sleeping at a kids house where either the parents are not home or are unaware of drinking. cause thats what they do at sleepovers most of the time..i have been told that by the kids. i put a stop to sleepovers last year..to me they are not neccessary.
Im not putting down your parenting skills, i think you are a great mom.
you are probably correct that she doesnt have a plan to ask for adderal..she probably doesnt feel right in her mind and doesnt know how to explain it to you. but she is asking for help so you have to help her.
Goody I'm sorry you're going thru this struggle with both daughters. I heard a long time ago there is a theory that we "pick our parents", when we are souls before we are actually born. If that is true, your daughters picked you for a reason. They knew you would get them the help that they need to get thru life. Your daughter may be BP, the reckless behavior might indicate that, but then again, it could also be young college kid antics....same with the drinking, most college kids drink. It's something new they've discovered, etc. It doesn't mean they have a problem, for the most part, but in her case it may be a symptom. It could really go either way. I think it's good that she's acknowledged her lack of concentration and is open to the possibility that she may have ADD. I HOPE her friends have her best interests in mind when they've suggested that and aren't just looking for a drug connection. If she does get on it, is there anyway to have her tested to make sure SHE is taking it and not selling it or sharing it with friends? I know nothing about the drug, as far as how long it stays in your system etc. If it only stays in a short time, she could also dupe the test results by only taking it before the test. She sounds like a very smart girl, who gets good grades and is starting to enjoy her freedom and growing up. I know you will continue to keep her close enough so you can watch over her and that's good, that's what she needs. You're a great mom, keep doing what you're doing. I know it's not easy, but you're making a difference by caring.
Hugs to you, I hope it gets better.
Hi to All....Its been a while, my computer bite the dust,
Well for new and old, I am Mslainie, my son is BP now 16.6 and my daughter is 14 adhd. Now my son after me out of work for over year, him on what I thought was right medcombo which I forget it can change. It doesnt seem to working like I am losing my son again, you know how fast it happens. He has been in therapy for 9 years, and even now I know (breaks the heart( he needs a 24 hours school living program. I finally have legal council and our district who refuse to admit they for 9th and 10th grade let my son fall thought the cracks of the school. But anyway to top off, my ex BP self meds is out of jail and my son so much wants his Dad to be there but he dont understand the illness and its been a nightmare.
ROSEQUART,I never heard that theory very interesting. Now i know my kids are nuts, I have been a single mom for 9 years, 60 work weeks, wow I guess I should feel very special if they picked me.
But anyway GOODY, I was down same road and I thought my daughter was bipolar not adhd. adhd was diagnosed in my daughter 8years ago. Now I learned BP and ADHD have a few symtoms that are the same but BP is not for my son until meds controlable. But my daughter was just tired of my son who has asthma mostly in spot light since 5. To make matters worse her therapist moved so we on list. I even thought she was cutting herself but it was her someone in school. So anyway I felt TERRIFIED IF I 2nd BP, only because he is sometimes so needy. My daughter is not and different BUT
it TAUGHT ME or just had me take a step back and not take for granted my daughter does need me and I need her.
Also I have been a total mess........my boyfriend& friend, you know on/off 7 years, died now a month, God I loved him so much.
we didnt live together and both had major ex and children problem but we could talk about everything on earth, I thank God for the time I had, well I am lieing, I am not thanking him but I wanted more. He is so missed. His birthday was 7/6, he passed 6/15. He was BP not that it means anything, but he just understood and did no matter like or not tell me a hard head taurus like it was. I did actually make my own therapy appt for me. WOW thats a first I always think of everyone else. I just feel over stressed ect.......
So I go, now I make it before Mark died too. So I was ready to just recieve counciling you know, not answers but good when I left. She told me I have great coping skills and I dont need to be in therapy. I fell over. A great man dies in my life, not man one of my best friends. my ex is out of jail, I had to get a Protection from abuse order for 6th time in 9years, I had a car accd 5-12 and broke my sternum, few ribs. I could go on and on. So anyway I will give her one more visit and if I am not satisifed, I will shop for a new one.
Well, TH for listening, Goody your strong and you have given gread post over year or more now. I have a good feeling for you.
Goody, I am so sorry your having a good time. You are such a support to everyone in this forum and now I feel at a loss to know how to help you. I can relate to what you said about being "snowed." My husband did that to a couple pdocs and I came off rattled and anxious because I was going on and on about what was wrong and my husband sat there like a saint. We never got anywhere with and this pdoc said something so inappropiate saying I know what a women can do to a man. I coud not believe it. But back to you I know this is so hard on a mother and yet you have such wonderful parenting skills and a beautiful nature that will carry you through. I wish I could know you in person. I bet you light up a room.
MARSHMALLOW IS SO RIGHT.....You light up the board, I have never felt so
understood. Many people in life have no clue and but all here BP OR NOT seem to be very special and the honesty is the best. I dont talk to many and here I go on and on. Goody dont be scared, you are not alone....
My faith lately is back, if know My Mark is not here, I will say a special pray to God or your higher power to help you and all of us.
Goody, I'm glad Erin is doing so well, but sorry to hear you are continuing to have such a struggle with Kait. My husband and I used to joke when our kids were little that they would take turns misbehaving. I guess that's better than having them all misbehave at once.
I know you have worried about this for a while. Hopefully the appointment will give you some more information and insight into what is going on with Kait. I am concerned about how much you can say in front of Kait. Do you think she may get angry and try to cut you out of the loop if you say something she does not agree with? Is there anyway you can e-mail or call the pdoc before the appointment to let him know some of your concerns? You are a great Mom and will make good decisions for your daughter. Sometimes it is just so hard to know what the best decisions are.
Thinking of you,
I'm so sorry Goody but I do have to say if I had a mother like you who supported me my life would of turn out so much different... I truly believe support is key and even though it's tiring your doing a fantastic job of being on top of things and you will notice down the line it will pay off... I admire you, I can't say enough for all you do on this board then to turn around and deal with it in your own home!
Please keep us posted on how Kait is doing, I will keep her in my prayers!