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Old 03-10-2009, 08:33 PM   #1
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Question trying to figure it all out....help-long

I know no one can diagnose me of course but i would really appreciate some opinions, ideas or advice please.

i am currently in therapy and have been for almost 4 years now, im still not very far at all. i was molested as a child for some time,My original diagnosis was depression and anxiety, then i was diagnosed by an ed psycholoogst as ADD, my psychiatrist owever disagrees and is now telling me i have borderline personaility disorder. i dont agree and am battling for him to listen to the ADD side as i cannot get any medication without his confirmation and i cant get another one at the minute. I am sure i have ADD and meet all the symptoms of inattention from day 1 even before the molestation or depression. i have the symptoms of the impulsitivity also such as the random thoughts and bursting into conversations , i had a lot of social problems and it created a lot of anxiety as well as problems with school, grades and i was also prone to rages and tantrums but to the exreme. The BPD symptoms did not show until i was around 19 and im 21 now.

With BPD i have the emotional symptoms such as mood swings and attatcment issues, but i am not impulsive to the extent as others and dont have any addictions aside from cigs, im a virgin, i dont drive wrecklessly or anything. i can lose my temper but rarley do anymore, i self harm. but i have always had a quick temper. im just very sensitive but i always have been and given my past i feel it plays on my environment now and so im over emotional with a lot of stuff.

Im trying to figure stuff out myself now because no one seems to be listening. over the years i have had time to read up on a lot and something that always sticks in my head is Bipolar 2. My first depression hit when i was 13, it was severe and lasted for months. it left then and only a few months later came back. in between i would brigthen up but was still feling down but able to funtion-it was like mild depression.Since then i am hit by depression like that every few months again, it doesnt last months anymore, maybe a week or two i will cease to function entirley, take to my bed, i dont leave my room, i dont wash,i sleep in my clothes and shoes and i drift in and out of sleep and harm, i cry and i survive on a bread loaf i keep in my room. i give up on everything and am more or less paralysed by utter dispair. i frequently have suicidal thoughts and it is very difficult to get through.

then it will lift slightly and ill be back to my usual grey outlook and mood swings that are more alike to BPD, theyll fluctuate throughut the day but it is less paralysing than the depression that hits me although still extremley difficult. i cant tell though when its coming, i literally wake up one morning and am just unable to function suddenly.

it happened a few weeks back, then usually after is followed by a sudden up. i do not go manic but hypomania comes to mind. i can tell as soon as i open my eyes in the morning, it feels like i won the lottery and i look forward to a few days or a week of positivity. there is no reason for it,nothing wonderful has happened. but my eyes just ping open an i feel like im bathing in light its so good. im not tired like usual and feel i need to hurry and get dressed and go out in the world there is just so much to do, everything feels bright and i always think im better suddenly, like finally that part of my life is over and im happy, i cant remember what bad feels like then and cant identify with feeling depressed suddenly. during these times i usually catch up on everything, last time i went through all my important documents and updated and posted stuff id needed to for months, but i dont it all in one day. i tidy my room until its sparkling but usually it takes me days just to clear the floor. i have all sorts of plans and ideas for my career moves, im so confident ill get what i want and spend my time day dreaming of how wonderful itll be and feel urges to get moving, its like i cant move fast enough theres just so much good things to do. i go out and although i dont have a massive spending spree i have little money but i will buy stuff and then it sits in bags at home.i love everyone and become very socialble and talk without anxiety or fear of judgement and am so carefree its unreal, everything i thought before is gone and any barriers i ever had or issues seem totally like another person, i have no wish to harm and things just go so smoothly alone like its all gliding, i feel like im flying along fast but smoothly and peacefully. last time i redgistered at a gym and booked classes everyday that week and went to all of them, i began walking half the day and riding my bike and filled my day with productive things, i washed and bought new clothes.

when im either depressed or my time inbetween these two im usually very tired, slow and empty but i struggle on. i have several health issues that make it difficult for me to do excercise or have much energy but during this time its not an issue,im not sore and i have a lot of energy and dont really need to sleep, i feel awake for once. nothing triggers it it just comes, then one morning i just wake up and its gone, i feel its just gone but try to cling to it but i cant because the feeling is just gone and the drive that was there before, or rather the motor has stopped.

it is just that without noticing for a long time i was talking to my counsellor and i kept saying'well now that thats over i can look forward to my high', there was always talk of these stages and which i was in and what was coming next. i have been on 2 anti depressants none of which have worked. in the first 2 weeks i go insane and am running about the house, jumping about and doing things that make no sense just because im full of energy and i dont sleep, then it goes and i have no positive effects and may feel suicidal or else i feel no different from usual and its useless.

i freuqently talk very fast anyway but i notice during these highs my body movements are more extreme as i talk and my tics come back in full force, its like energy is flowing out of me and will come out anyway possible.

i read another post about talking to yourself and playing conversations in your head and that bipolar seems to exagerate it. since i was a child i can remember doing this. i still do it all the time, i have spent the entire night before talking outloud(but in a whisper as i live with others) to people that arent there and playing conversations were my mind creates the reactions. i dont hear anything i just become engrossed.

my family is littered with mental health issues, theres a lot of alcoholism and depression. also some autism and OCD. my mom thinks my grandmother was bipolar as she became psychotic at one point and seemed to jump to extremes and do a lot of random exreme things and get strange ideas.

sorry this was long, its just i wonder why mine repeats itself and my depression does not get better after so much therapy i tried hard at and i take my meds. i can tell in my everyday mood swings sometimes that there has been a trigger, but these cycles every few months there is no reason for.any thoughts, it is just also i know ADD means a greater likleyhood of becoming bipolar, and my depression hit in my childhood whcih also increases the risk. i just dont feel im getting far at the minute and something is missing or not right. i feel stupid being here like a hypochondriac, but its been years and no improvement and im prepared to start looking at other ideas.

please help, any ideas?
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:49 PM   #2
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Re: trying to figure it all out....help-long

Honestly it sounds like BiPolar with rapid cycling. If it is, and you're taking an anti-depressant without a mood stabilizer this could be attributing to your many manic stages. Any Psychiatrist worth his salt, knows that you don't put a BiPolar patient on and anti-d without an anti-psychotic or mood stabilizer.

This really doesn't sound like ADD, my oldest son has ADD, and with that disorder you don't rapid cycle between manic episodes and depression. ADD is simply an inability to keep your mind at attention so that you can focus on things that you are trying to do. Stopping and starting projects or school/house work, etc. I don't know anything about BPD, but this really sounds like BiPolar. I'm surprised that your psychiatrist hasn't evaluated you for BiPolar, it doesn't make much sense.

Hope this was helpful,

kat

 
Old 03-11-2009, 12:20 AM   #3
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Re: trying to figure it all out....help-long

I'm a rapid cycler myself (ultradian) and I agree with Kat that it sounds like you're a rapid cycler as well. I would highly recommend that you talk to your pdoc about a possible bipolar diagnosis. ADD does not cause mania or depression. You might want to write down all of your mood swings such as how often they take place so that your pdoc can see patterns in your behavior as well as any triggers that are causing you to cycle.
__________________
Atypical Bipolar I Disorder with Rapid Cycling
Meds:
Depakote 1500mg
Prozac 40mg
Risperdal 1mg titrating to 6mg/day
Klonopin .5mg (2x/day)
Trazodone 100mg or 200mg PRN

Last edited by dreams in neon; 03-11-2009 at 12:20 AM.

 
Old 03-11-2009, 02:32 AM   #4
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Re: trying to figure it all out....help-long

thanks guys for your reply. i dont mean ADD causes mania i just mean that ive read that it is sometimes found that you have a more prone disposition to developing a mood disorder like bipolar and reccurant depression. i know that these symptoms are not due to ADD, i have had the symptoms of ADD(inattantion and the stuff you listed) all my life( i only now was passed to an ed psychologist by my college) but these mood swings are not the same and did not begin until i was 13, i can tell they are distinctly different by the force of them.

in rapid cycling how often do you shift moods? It is extremley difficult to get my psychiatrist to listen to anything other than BPD, everything is being put down to that. i am also concerned of looking like im fishing for a diagnosis, not to mention pills. borderline personality disorder does not make you sound all that good and i have found what i say is suddenly doubted, i worry theyll think im after meds or attention. i just dont feel im fitting the whole criterea for BPD, it doesnt fit entirley and i get the feeling it was easiest for the psychiatrist instead of looking into it.

ive never been evaluated for bipolar. how would i go about suggesting it in a sensitive way?

thanks for your help
__________________
My hands are small
i know
But theyre not yours, they
are my own
But theyre not yours,
they are my own
And i am never broken

 
Old 03-11-2009, 09:03 AM   #5
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Re: trying to figure it all out....help-long

There are 3 kinds of rapid cycling:

Rapid cycling: 4 or more manic or depressed episodes during a 12 month period.

Ultra rapid cycling: Where a person's mood changes every few days.

Ultradian/ultra-ultra rapid cycling: Where a person's mood changes several times within a day. This may be every few hours, every hour or every minute. In my case, my moods change every hour and sometimes every minute.
__________________
Atypical Bipolar I Disorder with Rapid Cycling
Meds:
Depakote 1500mg
Prozac 40mg
Risperdal 1mg titrating to 6mg/day
Klonopin .5mg (2x/day)
Trazodone 100mg or 200mg PRN

 
Old 03-11-2009, 09:05 AM   #6
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Re: trying to figure it all out....help-long

I would tell your pdoc that you're confused about your diagnosis and would like a clear explanation as to why he thinks you have BPD. As far as BPD and bipolar are concerned, both of them have similar symptoms and treatment protocol (i.e. meds), so you may find that even if you're diagnosed as BPD, you will still experience relief from meds used to treat that disorder.
__________________
Atypical Bipolar I Disorder with Rapid Cycling
Meds:
Depakote 1500mg
Prozac 40mg
Risperdal 1mg titrating to 6mg/day
Klonopin .5mg (2x/day)
Trazodone 100mg or 200mg PRN

Last edited by dreams in neon; 03-11-2009 at 09:06 AM.

 
Old 03-11-2009, 09:19 AM   #7
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Re: trying to figure it all out....help-long

how can you tell the difference between BPD and Bipolar? especially cyclothymia and rapid cycling? BPD tends to send people running in the opposite direction of me. im wondeing if its just my issues from the molestation and that it is not BPD but more of a rapid cycling problem, but the fact i was molested is making it appear more as BPD, its just i am not impulsive as the others and dont have all the same issues or reactions.

thanks for your help-i also got my book today from amazon about soft biplar and bipolar two, its called 'why am i still depressed?', so im going to start reading that.
__________________
My hands are small
i know
But theyre not yours, they
are my own
But theyre not yours,
they are my own
And i am never broken

 
Old 03-11-2009, 10:25 AM   #8
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Re: trying to figure it all out....help-long

From what my friend with BPD told me, borderline differs from bipolar in that mood swings are not caused by mania or depression. People with BPD may have some difficulty maintaining relationships as well as a poor self-image. If they feel threatened in any way, they can end a relationship with someone for no apparent reason. They can go from being "hot" to "cold" in seconds. If my friend senses any disapproval from me, she'll immediately apologize and beg me not to stop being her friend. Having said that, the symptoms I mentioned vary from person to person. People with bipolar have anger and mood swings that are attributed to nothing in particular, mania or depression. They may have impaired relationships like those with BPD, but this isn't generally due to a poor self image. Like people with BPD, people with bipolar may have a history of abuse -- although this is more likely in those who have borderline.
__________________
Atypical Bipolar I Disorder with Rapid Cycling
Meds:
Depakote 1500mg
Prozac 40mg
Risperdal 1mg titrating to 6mg/day
Klonopin .5mg (2x/day)
Trazodone 100mg or 200mg PRN

Last edited by dreams in neon; 03-11-2009 at 10:28 AM.

 
Old 03-11-2009, 12:01 PM   #9
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Re: trying to figure it all out....help-long

Pucca,

Dreams is the resident expert on Rapid cycling, I guess I'm the resident expert on Depression. If you can't get your pdoc to listen to you, honestly I'd look for a new pdoc. Your best interest and a proper diagnosis should be the only thing he's concerned with.

Also I doubt the child abuse has anything to do with your diagnosis. If you read around, like the posts about "how was your childhood" you'll see that probably 98% of us on this board were molested and abused, physically and verbally by a trusted adult when we were children. For some reason that just seems to be part of the whole mentally unstable world we live in.

Please be stern but nice about it with your pdoc and just tell him that you've been studying up on BiPolar and you think that this is a more accurate diagnosis and you'd like to be evaluated for it. Now odds are , he doesn't sound like the type that wants to be wrong, so he may just say you don't have it and back to BPD. I'd almost reccomend going to a private pdoc for a BiPolar eval., but it's up to you how you want to handle it.

kat

 
Old 03-11-2009, 12:54 PM   #10
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Re: trying to figure it all out....help-long

I second Kat's suggestion of seeing a new pdoc. I eventually ended up changing pdocs after mine refused to treat my rapid cycling and mania. Everytime I came into his office and complained about how I was feeling, he told me to come back in 3 months. Why I waited 1.5 years to finally put my foot down, I don't know, but I guess it's because out of all the pdocs I've seen over the past 18 years, there have only been 2 whom I feel were knowledgeable, trustworthy and willing to do everything they could to help me. I'm now working with a wonderful pdoc who accurately diagnosed me after 18 years. Best of all, he allows me to be an active participant in my treatment. If I want to make med changes, he'll allow my input as long as it's reasonable. He also explains the reasons why he makes the recommendations he does. He's a true gem and I consider myself fortunate to be working with him.
__________________
Atypical Bipolar I Disorder with Rapid Cycling
Meds:
Depakote 1500mg
Prozac 40mg
Risperdal 1mg titrating to 6mg/day
Klonopin .5mg (2x/day)
Trazodone 100mg or 200mg PRN

 
Old 03-11-2009, 05:07 PM   #11
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Re: trying to figure it all out....help-long

I agree with Dreams. Changing pdocs until you find one that fits your needs is okay to do. 10 years ago I had a pdoc who would just prescribe a new med for every complaint I had, until I was on 7 unneccisary meds, which caused drug induced psychosis and two suicide attempts. Having a comfortable relationship with your tdoc and your pdoc is so important, because if the connection is not there, the treatment will not be effective. Don't be afraid to shop around a little until you find one that fits you. Good luck with everyone and let us know how it goes.

 
Old 03-15-2009, 09:53 PM   #12
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Smile Re: trying to figure it all out....help-long

Quote:
Originally Posted by pucca_chick View Post
thanks guys for your reply. i dont mean ADD causes mania i just mean that ive read that it is sometimes found that you have a more prone disposition to developing a mood disorder like bipolar and reccurant depression. i know that these symptoms are not due to ADD, i have had the symptoms of ADD(inattantion and the stuff you listed) all my life( i only now was passed to an ed psychologist by my college) but these mood swings are not the same and did not begin until i was 13, i can tell they are distinctly different by the force of them.

in rapid cycling how often do you shift moods? It is extremley difficult to get my psychiatrist to listen to anything other than BPD, everything is being put down to that. i am also concerned of looking like im fishing for a diagnosis, not to mention pills. borderline personality disorder does not make you sound all that good and i have found what i say is suddenly doubted, i worry theyll think im after meds or attention. i just dont feel im fitting the whole criterea for BPD, it doesnt fit entirley and i get the feeling it was easiest for the psychiatrist instead of looking into it.

ive never been evaluated for bipolar. how would i go about suggesting it in a sensitive way?

thanks for your help
Hi, I see by your age that you're new to all this and it is very confusing, trust me! But I do believe that in most cases, BPD is a "garbage diagnosis", one that a lazy HCP makes when they don't know what else to do with you and don't necessarily want to medicate you.

I also agree that some HCP's are really sensitive to "drug seeking", even if the person (in this case, you) are not doing that. I also safely assume that they "profile" this more in younger patients. Which isn't at all fair to you.

The way you describe your ups and downs sounds very bipolar to me, and I honestly don't know why a provider hasn't diagnosed that, yet.

PS on the "drug seeking" thing, providers are really sensitive to people asking for Addereal, ritalin or focalin, so theyr'e less likely to give it out even when it's needed. It's maddening I think.
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:14 PM   #13
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Re: trying to figure it all out....help-long

Pucca,

If you go into a pdoc and ask for Ritalyn or Adderall its almost certain that you will be redflagged, these drugs have a very high street value among teens and college age kids.

The best thing to do is to tell the pdoc that you think you might have the symptoms of something, but don't mention a specific med unless they ask you what you think medwise, this should keep the red flag from being raised.

kat

 
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