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Old 04-22-2009, 03:52 PM   #1
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At what point will they admit someone?

Hi all, my name is Jessica and I am new here. I have wanted to do this for a while but never sure about it.
I am 25 years old. I have a brother who will be 30 in August. I am lost and need some advice, and to do so I need to provide a little background.
When my brother was little he witnessed my father abuse my mother. By the time i was probably 3 my mom and dad were divorced, and i never saw any of it. My brother witnessed our very angry father at his worse. I never really saw my dad until I was about 15. Until that point I was lucky to see him once a year.
My mother had a second marriage probably about the time I was 5 or so, and that only lasted until I was maybe 8. During this time (and we did not find out until 15 years later) My mothers husbands oldest son had molested my brother. My mom has known for a long while now that it happened to my brother, but he kept saying he couldnt recognize the face of the person who did it. A couple years ago, it clicked with him, and he figured out who it was.
My mother had a third marriage. This was my fatehr figure. At the point my step dad came into my life I was in about 2nd or 3rd grade. My brother never developed the relationship with him that I did, he always felt he could not have a father figure in his life.
My brother has NEVER held a job. In 10 years he had aprox 60 jobs that he never held for longer than two weeks. He was just unable to work with other people. My brother has always had severe anger issues. I have witnessed him punching himself repedadly over a bad haircut. I have witnessed him boxing a tree in the front yard. He has ripped his shirt off over getting angry. I have seen it all with him. He even spit in my face when I was 16 years old.
About the end of 2006 (at the time he had a MySpace) and he had posted on there a bulletin that was titled "What would you do" and when i opened it (it had been posted within minutes) it said inside "What would you do if i told you i had a gun in my hand right now and i didnt know what i was going to do with it?" i immideatly went to his house and there in his hand sat a gun. within weeks of that he had posted how he admired the Columbine kids, and I had found out he had a hit list of 7 people to kill, an then he was gonna go to a mall and start shooting everyone, then himself. I called the cops over this and he was admitted to the hospital, where they let him go.
Over the past 8 months he has been diagnosed as being Bipolar, to a psychotic level. He is now recieving disablility. Abut a year ago he was cutting himself ALL OVER to a point where he was wearing long sleeves and jeans in the middle of summer becuase his legs and arms were so tore up. He has been admitted into the hospital several times and always let go that night.
He has not had an episode or suicidal thought since November or so, and last night he had another episode. Was admitted into the hospital, punched a hole in the wall there, his face is swolen today from beating hismelf up again, and he is having sever suicidal thoughts again.
My question is, at what point does the hospital say this is not in the familys hands anymore. My mom and his wife keep convincing them to let him go, but its apparent to me he needs to be admitted to a psych ward.
I dont just fear him taking his own life, but him taking someone else with him.... Im lost and need advice from someone other than my mom about this situation.
Thanks for reading and hopefully I can get some guidance....
~Jessica

 
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:01 PM   #2
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Re: At what point will they admit someone?

Oh, I also have to add, that he also hangs ropes in his basement as if he is going to kill himself. He said the ONLY thing that has stopped him is knowing his wife or my mother would be the one to find him, and he didnt want them to have that picture in their heads, of them having to cut him down, forever. This is a frequent thought he has.

 
Old 04-22-2009, 04:27 PM   #3
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Re: At what point will they admit someone?

When he was in the hospital, didn't they find out that he was having suicidal thought and thoughts of hurting others? He could have been put in the psych ward then. Why do your mom and his wife keep convincing them to let him go? I don't understand? He really needs to be hospitalized but I don't know at what point someone else can step in if he doesn't want to go at his own free will. Is he willing to go?
If he is willing then there shouldn't be a problem. Does he currently see a pdoc that he can call? Is he on meds?

I know when I was suicidal and really scared I was going to hurt myself or my husband and stepdaughter, I went to the ER. Basically, I had to tell them that I was going to commit suicide and had a plan to get admitted.

If he's having such thoughts, he really needs to seek help right away.
I've had similar thoughts in the past. Medication is a huge help.
I hope he stays safe.

 
Old 04-22-2009, 04:55 PM   #4
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Re: At what point will they admit someone?

I hope this question doesn't upset you, but is he taking his meds regularly?

As far as being admitted to a psych ward, if a person does not show any signs of being a danger to themselves or others, they will be released. If they express any suicidal thoughts or have a plan to follow through, they will be admitted IP for a 72 hour hold at the very least.

When I was suicidal in December due to psychotic depression following a manic episode, the ER doctor who evaluated me asked how I was feeling (suicidal due to voices telling me to harm myself) and what my plan for suicide would be if I could act on it. I was admitted to the psych ward for 8 days although the pdoc wanted to keep me there longer.

I also don't understand why he was let go if he displayed suicidal or aggressive behavior.

What do the police say when you tell them about the hit lists he has created?
__________________
Atypical Bipolar I Disorder with Rapid Cycling
Meds:
Depakote 1500mg
Prozac 40mg
Risperdal 1mg titrating to 6mg/day
Klonopin .5mg (2x/day)
Trazodone 100mg or 200mg PRN

Last edited by dreams in neon; 04-22-2009 at 04:56 PM.

 
Old 04-22-2009, 08:11 PM   #5
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Re: At what point will they admit someone?

Unfortunately I think you're going to get alot of the same responses to this question. I have BPII with severe med resistant suicidal depression and the last time I was admitted in july I was held on a 72 hr because I told them I wanted to die, after my husband told them I'd taken 14 ambien and an unknown amount of vicodin and ultram....my hold turned into a week stay, and I had no say whatsoever nor did my husband about whether i could leave or not. Now I think the state that you live in has some things to do with it, because in NC the hospital can take a mandate out with the judge that keeps your family from taking you out of the hospital if you are a danger to yourself or others. I'm not sure if that happens in other states. My pdoc finally got me out under his care because I wouldn't cooperate in any group therapies or see any of their therapists and he accepted me under his care, so I had to see him twice a day for a week, then once a day for a week, etc, basically outpatient. The other thing that works in NC, is that if you are at your Pdoc's office and he/she asks you if you are suicidal and you say "yes" and then he/she asks you if you have a plan to kill yourself, and your actually "unsmart" enough to tell him your plan, your held in that office while an ambulance is called to transport you to the hospital...once again I'm not sure if that happens in other states.

One question i'd like to ask if I may.....why do your mom and sister in law keep getting your brother out of the hospital if he's that bad?

kat

Last edited by katlin09; 04-22-2009 at 08:13 PM.

 
Old 04-22-2009, 08:33 PM   #6
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Re: At what point will they admit someone?

Kat,

The same thing is true here in Wisconsin. If you tell your tdoc or pdoc that you're suicidal and plan to act upon your thoughts, they are required to call 911. I have a written contract with my tdoc and pdoc which gives them permission to call 911 if they feel I'm a danger to myself due to mania, depression or psychosis. Even though this is their responsibility, I still prefer having a written contract since it validates things for me and makes it concrete. I also know that I've voluntarily accepted to be admitted IP if I am unsafe to leave the office on my own.
__________________
Atypical Bipolar I Disorder with Rapid Cycling
Meds:
Depakote 1500mg
Prozac 40mg
Risperdal 1mg titrating to 6mg/day
Klonopin .5mg (2x/day)
Trazodone 100mg or 200mg PRN

 
Old 04-23-2009, 12:15 PM   #7
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Re: At what point will they admit someone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cocos421 View Post
When he was in the hospital, didn't they find out that he was having suicidal thought and thoughts of hurting others? He could have been put in the psych ward then. Why do your mom and his wife keep convincing them to let him go? I don't understand? He really needs to be hospitalized but I don't know at what point someone else can step in if he doesn't want to go at his own free will. Is he willing to go?
If he is willing then there shouldn't be a problem. Does he currently see a pdoc that he can call? Is he on meds?

I know when I was suicidal and really scared I was going to hurt myself or my husband and stepdaughter, I went to the ER. Basically, I had to tell them that I was going to commit suicide and had a plan to get admitted.

If he's having such thoughts, he really needs to seek help right away.
I've had similar thoughts in the past. Medication is a huge help.
I hope he stays safe.
yea he is on meds, and he sees a psych. when he gets admitted into the hospital they tell them he is having suicidal thoughts... i dont know why they continue to let him go. I dont think he would go to a psych ward voluntarially.

 
Old 04-23-2009, 12:18 PM   #8
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Re: At what point will they admit someone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by katlin09 View Post

One question i'd like to ask if I may.....why do your mom and sister in law keep getting your brother out of the hospital if he's that bad?

kat
This is what I would like to know. they always end up saying yeah he is ok lets take him home. they know he does not want to go or have to stay, so they do whatever they can to keep him happy.

 
Old 04-23-2009, 12:22 PM   #9
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Re: At what point will they admit someone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jr309c View Post
yea he is on meds, and he sees a psych. when he gets admitted into the hospital they tell them he is having suicidal thoughts... i dont know why they continue to let him go. I dont think he would go to a psych ward voluntarially.
If he won't go to a psych ward volutarily, he can always be committed involuntarily if he is a danger to himself or others. This is what happened to me in 2006 during my first manic/psychotic episode. I was actively psychotic, did not know where I was, I could not hold a conversation and was extremely confused, irritable, manic and combative, so I was involuntarily committed for a little over a month in order to protect me from harming myself or others. In looking back, I'm glad I was committed because it literally saved my life. Before I was admitted to the hospital, my voices were telling me to injest an entire bottle of Tylenol and to walk out into traffic. If my sister had not called 911 to have the police take me to the ER, I probably wouldn't be here today.
__________________
Atypical Bipolar I Disorder with Rapid Cycling
Meds:
Depakote 1500mg
Prozac 40mg
Risperdal 1mg titrating to 6mg/day
Klonopin .5mg (2x/day)
Trazodone 100mg or 200mg PRN

 
Old 04-23-2009, 12:23 PM   #10
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Re: At what point will they admit someone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreams in neon View Post
I hope this question doesn't upset you, but is he taking his meds regularly?

As far as being admitted to a psych ward, if a person does not show any signs of being a danger to themselves or others, they will be released. If they express any suicidal thoughts or have a plan to follow through, they will be admitted IP for a 72 hour hold at the very least.

When I was suicidal in December due to psychotic depression following a manic episode, the ER doctor who evaluated me asked how I was feeling (suicidal due to voices telling me to harm myself) and what my plan for suicide would be if I could act on it. I was admitted to the psych ward for 8 days although the pdoc wanted to keep me there longer.

I also don't understand why he was let go if he displayed suicidal or aggressive behavior.

What do the police say when you tell them about the hit lists he has created?
He does take meds.

One thing that I left out of this that slipped my mind, is that he is a registered sex offender. When he was 21 his fiance was 17 and thats how he got there... the stress of being in and out of court seperated them. So this also factors into his issues.

I told the cops about the hit list (which was years ago i dont think this is somethign he wants to act upon now) but at that time they forced him to the hospital, where they let him go that night. This was before his marriage... He did fine for a couple years, and the past year has been the worst of his life.

There have been numerous times my sister in law has walked in the basement, and the rope has been hung. There have been many nights she woke up and he was not in bed, and after searching the house he was in teh basement with the rope hung. Its almost like he is just crying out for help. He wants to kill himself, but the thing keeping him from doing it is my mom and his wife, and me and my kids.

 
Old 04-23-2009, 12:27 PM   #11
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Re: At what point will they admit someone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jr309c View Post
He does take meds.

One thing that I left out of this that slipped my mind, is that he is a registered sex offender. When he was 21 his fiance was 17 and thats how he got there... the stress of being in and out of court seperated them. So this also factors into his issues.

I told the cops about the hit list (which was years ago i dont think this is somethign he wants to act upon now) but at that time they forced him to the hospital, where they let him go that night. This was before his marriage... He did fine for a couple years, and the past year has been the worst of his life.

There have been numerous times my sister in law has walked in the basement, and the rope has been hung. There have been many nights she woke up and he was not in bed, and after searching the house he was in teh basement with the rope hung. Its almost like he is just crying out for help. He wants to kill himself, but the thing keeping him from doing it is my mom and his wife, and me and my kids.
I really feel for him because I know what that kind of despair is like.

I wonder if his meds may need to be adjusted? Perhaps he isn't on the right combination of meds that can help him more effectively.

Do you know what meds he is taking?
__________________
Atypical Bipolar I Disorder with Rapid Cycling
Meds:
Depakote 1500mg
Prozac 40mg
Risperdal 1mg titrating to 6mg/day
Klonopin .5mg (2x/day)
Trazodone 100mg or 200mg PRN

 
Old 04-23-2009, 12:50 PM   #12
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Re: At what point will they admit someone?

This may sound kind of last ditch....but is there ever a time when you two are alone and he says he wants to kill himself, where you could call the police to take him to the hospital and you could have him committed? If he tells a doctor at the ER that he wants to die or kill himself, it is virtually illegal for them to not put him on a 72 hr. hold, and I'm pretty sure that's the same everywhere, I don't understand what power your mom and sister in law have to be able to take him home. I'm not sure how it works in Ohio, my husband has family there and his mom had an uncle involuntarily committed for the same thing, but his wife was not able to get him out. I know that here in NC once your in, you're in and it doesn't matter who tries hubby, wife, mom, or dad they can't get you out....it take a doctor or magistrate or court order) they don't fool around with this kind of thing.

Have you ever considered taking him to a different hospital or asking his pdoc why they won't commit him if they know he is suicidal? It seems like this is a major mal-practice issue on the part of the pdoc. I'm sure this is so frustrating for you, because honestly I'm getting frustrated for you, being a suicidal depressant...I know the seriousness of this situation and I can't belieive how they are handling it, or should be say NOT handling it....it just doesn't make sense.

kat

 
Old 04-23-2009, 12:54 PM   #13
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Re: At what point will they admit someone?

I find it interesting how the hospital is letting him go. How can that be? Normally when someone is suicidal and acts out, they are put on a 72 hour hold. If they require additional treatment, the attending pdoc will sign a court order. Even after a person is released after having a court order mandate, they may still be required by the courts to take their meds and keep all pdoc appointments. This was true for me. When I was IP in 2006, I was released under the pretense that I would continue taking my meds as prescribed and would keep all of my pdoc appointments. I was discharged in March 2006, but the court order stipulation didn't expire until July of that year.
__________________
Atypical Bipolar I Disorder with Rapid Cycling
Meds:
Depakote 1500mg
Prozac 40mg
Risperdal 1mg titrating to 6mg/day
Klonopin .5mg (2x/day)
Trazodone 100mg or 200mg PRN

 
Old 04-23-2009, 04:16 PM   #14
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Re: At what point will they admit someone?

My mom said he went to his pdoc yesterday and they changed his meds....

I just finally came out and asked my mom why they have not had him admitted to a psych ward when he goes to the hospital. She told me the reasoning is becuase when he has episodes the only thing that helps is taking him to the hospital. She says the reason they take him home is becuase they feel if he is forced to go to a psych ward, he wont go back to the hospital when he has these episodes.

 
Old 04-23-2009, 04:34 PM   #15
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Re: At what point will they admit someone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jr309c View Post
She says the reason they take him home is becuase they feel if he is forced to go to a psych ward, he wont go back to the hospital when he has these episodes.
There isn't much a hospital ER can do during a severe manic or depressive episode except to admit a patient IP.
__________________
Atypical Bipolar I Disorder with Rapid Cycling
Meds:
Depakote 1500mg
Prozac 40mg
Risperdal 1mg titrating to 6mg/day
Klonopin .5mg (2x/day)
Trazodone 100mg or 200mg PRN

Last edited by dreams in neon; 04-23-2009 at 05:27 PM.

 
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