I found a oral sx that has a tomogram machine. I think I may get my own as I'm thinking about going to a neuromusclar dentist but before I do I want to know where my joints are located.
What is this with their trial and error stuff. Is it to just keep us coming back or don't they know how to read a tomogram.
I mean if you break a arm they take xrays and know what to do.
My neuro is sending me to a pain management clinic and he is suppose to look at my neck mri (as I have bulges and osteocyte complexes) to see if something there may be pressing on a nerve. I have had this humming in the right side of my head for 1.5 year and the right facial pain and spasms.
She did a mra of head and I have a neck mra tomorrow. I also have ms so that may be the culprit but ms symtoms usually wax and wane and my prob. is contant over a long time so we don't think its that.
If you do go to the nm dentist try and get copies of your MRIs or tomorgram (once you get it done) to bring with you - the actual films. The last nm dentist I went to took both and on the tomorgram put a plastic sheet over it and drew a schematic diagram where lines were drawn between the atlas, sphenoid & hyoid bone (nose and throat), chin and tm joints and other points on the head and face and then checked how these line intersected in terms of actual numerical measurements - this helps them determine what is out of alignment. From there he compared it to the cervical and head MRI and pointed out that my atlas was off center almost a full degree and pushed other points off as well so no matter what was done with splints and teeth I would always have pain and other symptoms and be out of balance untill it got corrected - so he sent me to a NUCCA chiro - who did the same thing to confirm the measurements. After several treatments by the NUCCA chiro - all my head noise (although I also had ringing in my ears) evenutally subsided and is now gone but I still have other tmj symptoms and pain. In fact its only been the last month or so that I can now feel my face and head when I touch them - they were numb with pain for almost 3 yrs - felt like chronic novacaine after-affects - like when novacaine starts to wear off so the area gets all tingly but its still numb.
Hey - between your good left side and my good right side we make a normal person! You made some good points in your post. What happened with the prosthedontist? Was your MS diagnosed with a spinal tap? My brain MRI indicated that I have may have it and its in my family as well but I don't have other symptoms usually associated with it so I didn't pursue it further. Just wondering....
I didn't really associate the noise in my head as being in my head but in my brain - if that makes sense - I thought it was coming from pain overload over stimulating my brain and it caused the constant noise - mine was a constant low hum although occassionally it did pusle as well that particularly bothered me at night b/c I always thought there was a motor running outside my house or off in the distance. Made it hard to concentrate or focus my thoughts and process what was being said and formulating a response - but its finally gone and most of my cognative ability has returned almost back to normal now.
Thanks Thelma- so the tomogram shows all the facial bones? Where did you have a tomogram done?
Are you still seeing the nm dentist?
My problem I feel is the right temporal bone is out of place and thats where the humming is coming from. So your probs are on the left side hey.
Well he made me teeth , but as you know I have the same problems, when things are out of place new teeth don't help, but at least the bite is more even.
I'm not even sure the nm dentist can help with bite adjustments since I feel my temporal bone is not in the right place, and my neuro said no more head treatments. She thinks I'm nuts when I tell her my head bones are not in the right place.
My ms was dx in 1992 with brain mri, spinal tap and symptoms.
I really need some sort of xray so someone can measure my facial and cranial bones but people think I"m not when I ask them about it.
Yes my humming is constant on the right side, drives me nuts.
The tomogram will show the tm joints, condyles and most of the facial and part of the neck components, both soft and hard tissue, I believe. The tmj dentist treating me at the time sent me to a orthodontist for the tmogram.
I know my head bones or plates are out of alignment - it was one of the first things I noticed in terms of it being painful as it happened and then where the pain continued to stem from afterwards. Many drs told me to go to a phsychiatrist b/c schizophrenia is usually depicted as starting with image or facial perceptions changing within the mind only. Finally though a local chiro took the time to pull out head diagrams and show me what can happen when the bite and jaws become so misaligned that the plates can actually be set into motion and move similar to what I felt - afterwards several more drs I saw confirmed the same thing - however the ignorance of the first few drs I saw floored me - and they call themselves experts? And I had to pay them them for their svs yet?
Although the nm dentist helped in terms doing the diagnostic head and face schematic and referring me to the NUCCA chiro I fared no better with him in terms of tmj treatment. He made me over dentures as well that were so large I could not put my lips together at all and when I went to speak I could not move any of my facial muscles around the teeth - I looked like I had monkey mouth. When the facial spasms got worse he said he didn't think he could help me so I went to someone else, a holistic dentist - who did the same thing - I guess they think the bigger the better - more support for the muscles, etc. - but now he has got them down to a better size for my small mouth and the spasms have started to ease up and my facial and head pain has become less intense. He has referred me to a cranial chiro which I go to next week to start getting my head and face bones back to normal positions or so I hope. One side of my head is sunken inward and the other side is bulging outward and the same with the back of my head. With my face the cheekbones and eyebrows are lopsided with one side higher than the other - the sad thing is I watched this happen over a 2 week period when all the pain and other symptoms started and it was probably one of the scariest things that has ever happened to me b/c I never knew such things were possible.
I was wondering if this kind of thing is common among people who wear dentures or have extensive dental work - seems to me that not too many tmj sufferers get the cranial movement or distortion the we have seen. Gee - my parents wore dentures and didn't have this problem - I am perplexed as to why this happened.
I called all the oral sx yesterday and no one has a tomogram machine!!! One suggested I try an ent to see if he can figure out if my temporal bone is out of place on one side. I know it is. So I wonder does my temporal bone need to go back or my jaw on that side needs to go forward!!!
Yes those head bones can move, when they had me in that splint and kept moving my jaw forward I could feel my bones move and when I had to quit wearing that splint I could feel my head tighten right up. Also when I chewed a little I could feel them moving. People just think I'm nuts.
Let me know how your cranial chiro does. I just know if our bones were in the right place we'd be ok I bet.
Telma you sound like me, not really a tmj problem but more a head problem from having a bad bite, my were from bad dentures. Sounds like your feeling a bit better. I don't think we have any holistic dentists here.
Telma- I have the same problem as you. I really noticed it last night, one side bugles out and one in in further. Have your see the cranial person yet. What type of cranial treatment does she do and does she do a lot of work with the head bones?
I go later today - my first appt so I am kind of nervous. I'll let you know how it goes. I'm just afraid this one will do manual cracking that you often hear about - so far the 2 previous chiros I have gone to didn't do that. I've got a feeling this one is going to want to do some type of inner mouth manipulation - yuk!
Just got back from appt - per his business card he's a chiro/kinseyologist. Didn't tell me anything I don't already know - that I am torqued - not just my head but my whole body. Said it could take months to years to straighten out and b/c my bite is now so messed up he's going to have to take it very slow - do one thing at a time every week and see how my body reacts and will call my tmj dr to see if they can coordinate their schedules and let each other know what the other is doing after each appt so they can work together and figure this out. He didn't do anything other than examine me - checking my arm strength, posture, reflexes, muscle tension - the normal stuff but gave me a lift for my right foot since I am leaning to one side - which really changed my bite to the point I had to take the splints out b/c I was driving home and suddenly got very dizzy and nauseous and couldn't get my shoe off with the lift in it since I was using it to drive - arrgh! The only thing that I liked about him was that he said right at the beginning that he could see something wrong with my face and head shape and that he would keep his fees down b/c he knows I haven't been able to work due to all of this. He wants to see me once a week and doesn't take credit cards so I couldn't pay him today but he didn't seem upset at all by that - just said - don't worry - see you next week - so he doesn't seem too bad - I think as usual I am a lttle depressed and disappointed 'cause I was hoping for a bleeping miracle. But I'll keep you posted if I see any improvement form treatment by him - figue I will give him 2-3 months.
He sounds very nice about payment. I think its a plus he reconized that your face is out of kilter. Mine is but no one notices it. I am interviewing a new chiro Sat and I'll wait to see if she notices my face. People just don't believe us when we say our head bones are torqued. I also wear 1/8" lift in my left shoe.
Going slow is the right thing to do.
How many splints do you wear?
Isn't this getting old. You like me have good joints just everything else is out of wack. Its so hard to explain to anyone how it feels.
I am going to get a AP cranial xray done. It should show the facial bones along with the cranial bones.
Well Thelma I sure hope we can get our head bones straightened out otherwise I don't see how our symptoms will go away.
I am wearing a lower splint and an upper "over denture" on top - basically its a splint with front teeth on it since I am missing those and it sits over my natural teeth that have been filed down by numerous tmj specialists. I have toyed with the idea of removing what is left and just going to regular dentures but am told it could make things worse - don't see how though - since I still basically have back teeth putting dentures over what is left of them is not helping - its just adding bulk in my mouth so I can't move to open or close - if they took the teeth out - I would lose bone - and then maybe have some room for the dentures. I don't know anymore.
What is an A/P cranial x-ray - don't think I have heard of that - is it just a standard head xray?
I have a hearing for SSDI (disability benefits) tomorrow and spoke with the lawyer today about it - how do you explain all of this to the average lay person who is not familiar with this - when I told her the pain is constant and does not abate with meds and I get facial and tongue spasms and have pain throughout my body - can't sleep, think clearly,etc. she said "so why would that prevent you from working? I just want to scream!!!!
TMJ and this cranial torqueing and body pain is so horrible that I force myself to live in this "la-la" land of make believe and denial and that everything will be alright - but then every once in a while I am forced back to reality in dealing with new drs, lawyers for disability and health benefits, increasing debt obligations, etc and it just gets so overwhelming - this yo-yo-ing up and down between being hopeful and encouraged one day and then discouraged and dismal the next day can drive you nuts - guess today was not one of my better days but maybe tomorrow will be..........
Telma- an AP cranial is just an xray of the front and back of the head. It would show your facial and skull bones, which I feel is what my and your problem is.
Man I hope your hearing goes well. I know with my tmj symptoms I'm unable to socialize or even talk much, couldn't imagine working with it.
I get awful discouraged too, but then I feel if just my head bones would get in the right place I'd be ok. Just takes the right person. I just can't imagine living the rest of my life like this.
I also am going broke on treatments, and it gets so old going to these doctors. None of my other doctors did xrays, just an mri, now I'm not getting any more tmj treatments done till I get xrays. I'm tired of this trial and see treatments.
I have an upper denture and lower partial, can't imagine overdentures and splints. I barely have enough room for my dentures in my mouth. Sometimes I feel like getting the lower 7 teeth I have pulled because they always seem to have a hard time making the lower partial.
After reading so many posts on here and people not getting better after seeing doctor after dentist and wearing splint after splint I wonder if a lot of people aren't straight from the hips on up and if their head bones are not in the right place too.
The stress of all this, the money etc sure doesn't help the matter.
Thelma- since I can't get into see this dentist till Aug. I found a place that will do skull xray- 4 views for $50 and complete for 70. It should really tell you where all your bones are. Think I will get this done. Just to let you know.
I just don't think any tmj treatment will work till my head bones are in place and just going to the NM dentist for bite adjustments is not going to help. I am so tired of spending and wasting money on this ****.
Just had my first cranial adjustment. It wasn't too bad - he basically put his whole hand over my face and pushed it as he took his other hand and alternated pushing the top of my head and the base of it near the neck in the back. It didn't really hurt - I think it hurt much more when it first started to shift out of position. It did enduce a series of facial spasms that also made their way down my spine and legs but they have since stopped during my 45 min drive home. First thing I did notice is that my sun glasses sat differently and now I can feel my right eye feeling less pressure on it - so far so good. He spoke with my tmj dr and suggested he change the splints or adjust the ones I am now wearing, so next week I go back to the tmj dr and then I have to go back to the chiro the next day for another cranial adjustment. He said after a few appts it will be see the chiro first and the next day see the tmj dr for splint adjustments until I get totally straightened out - he said I am fully rotated so it will take a few months at least before I feel "straight and symetrical" again. So once again I am optimisitc until proven wrong............
What about you - did you get the head xrays? Has anything improved since we last spoke or are you still in a "holding pattern"?
Your chiro did the adjustmen different than the osteopath. Maybe I need to find a chiro to do it. My skull xray was done and I will bring it to the oral sx. tomorow and I will get a ceph done and get his opinion. MY chiro is his buddy so thats why I'm going to get an opinion, just to see what they think.
Its amazing how everything is connected hey. Up and down the spine. Sounds like you may be on the right tract. There has got to be an answere to this stuff. I'll let you know what the oral sx says. I'm nervous just to go there.