Appliance Fitting Part 3 - Bone Disorders Message Board

luvtocamp · 12-23-2008, 10:51 AM

Yes I was thinking the same thing.
Oh you decided to put your tree up. Take it easy, maybe have your Sister and her husband come early tomorrow and they can help. Glad your having a nice Xmas. Oh I'm sure your meal will be wonderful- are you making a ham or turkey or ???, but Xmas day itself sounds like a lot of socializing and may make you tired.

Actually my husband will probably work, I said go ahead, I'm not much company anyway and the job is behind. He usually works 7 days a week when he has work, and we thank the Lord he has work so its ok.

TL- I never even heard of implants that long ago. You must of been like part of the first people to get implants. I mean I never even thought of them tell I got on the tmj message board, no one ever mentioned them to me.

You have been throught so much with your teeth, I just have to agree with you about some dentist not even thinking about the long term concenquesces of their actions.

Hey about the slope of the upper gum, my right side is always the worst and thats where they did the upper aveloplasty to remove gum and he made it shorter than the other side, made me mad, I think he cut too much off and theres no slope there just straight back, he was just suppose to remove alittle gum there and I said now its shorter than the other side and he said the dentist said to make it shorter, yes but to match the other side. So I think you are right.

Hey its not our fault, we were trying to do what we felt was right. I was told get a new pair of dentures every 5-6 years so when mine got loose I got a new pair, wish I would of just got them relined, and everything you did was what you thought was the best thing to do, and we trusted the professionals, as we didn't know any better.

I wonder if anyone ever sues dentist, sometimes I get so made thinking about this stuff, never thought about ever sueing before but sure makes ya mad.

Try not to do anything too strenuous now, I know its frustrating isn't it, not getting stuff done. Even if it was just me and my husband I use to put the tree up and that. Remember its all adults coming over and no one is going to judge you, so you don't need everything to be just right.

Thelma-Louise · 12-23-2008, 01:29 PM

I follow the Italian tradition of fish on xmas eve - although I don't make all 7 like you are supposed do - who can eat that much - but I'll do filet of sole, salmon, blue fish and bacala (a salted cod) and a shrimp cocktail appetizer and some angel hair pasta with garlic and oil and some veges on the side. Suppsedly there was 7 different fishes at the Last Supper per some religions and xmas eve dinner mimcs that - your really only supposed to have a taste or nibble of each but Italians alway get carried away when it comes to food and each fish becomes a course in itself - way too much I think. But fish is easy to eat so I am kind of looking forward to it - its so expensive I seldom buy it nowadays. Blew my food budget this month.

When I got the implants it was relatively new but the dentist I went to who I didn't know except for an ad in the paper told me they were being used at that point for 10 years and had become commonplace and widely used - I paid $15K for implants and bridges and 4 crowns around 1993. You know I thought it was risky back then - but being younger at the time I didn't think much of the consequences or future impact it could have - I was just horrified at having to lose my front teeth I just did it - plus I was told doing the implants would prevent future bone recession that is common with partials - the only other alternative I had.

The slope of my gum line as well as the thickness changed with the perio flap surgery I had done a few years after the implants. Although the surgery was not done around the implants or front - the 4 lateral quads were done I immediately noticed a difference - my molars looked like they flared out being like little teepees or bells - b/c the gum and bone around them receded after the procedure exposing more of the tooth which is narrower - plus I now had spaces in between each tooth which I never had either. And the gum and bone line changed from side to side and was no longer the same on both side with some areas thicker than others, etc.

When I first got sick with this that is the first thing my sister said to me - see you did too much to your mouth - you caused all of this. While I agree I did cause this to a degree by doing too much - as you said I was following poor advice - I think the real problem was I went to different dentists for each major "recon" or procedure and they each had their own methods and with the last dentist it went awry - I mean how long can one's luck hold out?

Its very hard to sue dentists for a number of different reasons but primarily b/c its very difficult to prove their dental work or negligence was inferior and caused our problems - you seldom will find a dentist willing to testify against another dentist and for every dentist you do find who will testify on your behalf stating the dental work is at fault, the other side can find just as many claiming it is not. Then you also have the issue that you have seen other dentists since that time and it can be argued any one of those dentists caused the problem. Even though you and I can probably pinpoint the exact day and time we started having problems and with what dentist - a good defense lawyer would knock out our claim with a 1-2-3 punch in no time. I have seen some cases online but not many. But when I think too hard about it I get furious over it think how unfair the world can be sometimes.

Well the trees a bust right now - I have a rotating stand that at first didn't turn but the tree lit, now I got it turning but the tree won't light - arrgh - plus I broke one of the plugs on one set of lights arrgh - so I either go buy a new stand or just put the tree in the stand and connect the lights to an outlet - it won't rotate but it will be up - but now I will have to go up in the attic for another set of lights. And everything is just so much of an effort, you know? I am tempted to put the tree away and pull out this 1 foot high ceramic table top tree that lights up and be done with it. Heehee.

luvtocamp · 12-23-2008, 03:23 PM

That is all I have up, a little ceramic xmas tree. I've never seen a roatating tree. I know doing xmas decor can be frustraating enough when your feeling well.
Your meal sounds great, I like fish and pasta , althought never tried blue fish, yes all that fish can blow a budget, I do make salmon patties for me as they are like you said easy to eat.
I know it seems like all the dentist know eachother in an area and stick up for eachother. I sometimes think tho dentist can harm a persons health just as much as a negligent doctor. I guess the main thing is to get better, if these dentures dont' work out I am requesting a refund for them tho.

Well I think everything you had done was suppose to be what was for the best, you were trying to save your bone and teeth.

Well have a nice evening - its still snowing here. Didn't make it out except to the mailbox.

StillHope · 12-23-2008, 10:56 PM

Hello TL and LTC, I posted on the old thread but then saw this one started. Don't reply to that one. I'll switch here.

I agree completely about suing, talked to few lawyers since even dentists told me to sue some of my docs. It's hopeless. We can make it public tho thanks to the web.

I had the gums filed too, as I mentioned. I hate it and hate that dentist the most!! I feel and look as if my fronts start right from under my nose! No nice lip as I had, the teeth surface is long and sticking out as you say. In my case there was NO reason to do that: that guy was a total idiot!!! It was not even for money since I never paid to him and could not even go back due to the pain and my overall state.

I agree too about their different approaches. I also think that this is a good way for all of them to make money. One dentist filed my teeth, the next one said that they were not filed correctly and overfiled them, the third one did not like the shape (it was rectangular) and made it rounded: then no temps were holding in place and would come off easily (besides my pain in the teeth for many months and sensitivity for years from severe overfiling). After that whenever I heard "I will start with re-preparing your teeth properly" , i.e. rectangular again, I would just say "thank you " and "good bye". Still not sure that someone will agree to place crowns on what is left,... but I STILL HOPE. In any case this is secondary to my occlusion. Need to be pain-free first...

Oh, I wanted to share someone else's experience similar to TL's perio story but happier. A doc made dentures but they were not comfy. Then he said, I'll refer you to my brother to do a bone surgery to make them fit. The patient asked why not to file the denture to fit the bone. The dentist said: " Oh, you are smart!!!" And that's what he had to do since there was nothing else to say to that patient!

Thelma-Louise · 12-24-2008, 01:28 AM

Oh Stillhope - sometimes I read your posts and think they are mine and I have to check to see who wrote it - it could be me - your stories sound so familiar and I just keep saying to myself "me, too".

Well thought I would post while I wait for my meds to kick in - finished the tree and finished wrapping gifts and all I have to do now is cook tomorrow and set the table - I feel so proud of myself when I get things done these days.

Stillhope - just to answer some questions from the Part 2 posting:

They have cosmetic overdentures available by dentists called Snap Ons but they require models be made and so forth and can cost I think about $250 - maybe more - I saw them on a news show one morning and it was done by a dentist that worked with my 2nd tmj dentist down in NYC - I have his name if you want it. Then I saw in a Dr Leonard catalog cosmetic over dentures for $60 that says it comes as a soft gel (not the teeth but the mold above the teeth) that molds to your own teeth and can be trimmed in the back - it came in small, med and large. I have no clue what they look like or how they work other than from the picture int he catalog and that is not too explicit.

Thanks for the info on the special nerve related to the cuspid - I have long suspected that only b/c before the tmj I was getting strange sensations with my left upper cuspid - primarily I would get this feeling it was turning - and as it turned it felt like my upper left back teeth followed it and my teeth would not meet when I tried to close my mouth - and then I would get dizzy and if I rubbed the left canine it would stop. I have suggested many times to my dentist "let's just yank the sucker"! He feels though it can be corrected by putting the correct type of canine over it - we shall see.

The dentist that initially crowned my canines when I had the implants done didn't want to take on my case - he was honest and up front about it, feared he would make things worse - suggested I go to a university in Florida - too bad though b/c he had the right idea I think - do one side at a time until it felt comfortable, then the other side and lastly the front - this would ensure lateral balance before any contact in the front is made - which can throw things off and make you think the imbalance is coming from elsewhere.

Basically they removed one set of premolars/bicuspids for the braces and then closed those gaps - but they kind of re-appeared after a couple years just behind my canines, but not really enough to put in a whole tooth. And then I lost the front teeth so I have no teeth in the front, so the gap there, then my canines and right into a premolar and 2 molars. At this point I have gaps everywhere as you can imagine. The prostho that did the replacement made the canines wider to close the gap and that's when my problems started.

Another point you made is about the prepping - the guy who first did my canines and a few crowns left a lot of tooth there and did them round. The next guy said they were underprepped and insisted he redo them - he angleg them like little teepees or pointy - and then suddenly he started telling me I needed posts in the teeth to hold the crown so he must have over did it. Then the first tmj dentist I went to once the tmj went fullblown said they were filed wrong - they needed to be flatter for neuromuscular reasons and he filed them some more. Now my dentist says they are filed almost to the gum line and probably will not be able to hold crowns again - even with posts. I will need a crown lenghtening procedure done on each - which will shorten my gum line so all you will see when I smile or open my mouth is teeth - -I'll probably look like Mr Ed the horse - or we put a perm gold caps on them and use them like anchors and affix a removable denture to them that will "snap on". We haven't gotten to that point yet since he is just trying to make me something that will give me back a bite, stop the facial spasms and help my muscles to relax.

Your story about the other person struck a cord as well. At my last appt with the dentist that started this mess - I pointed out that the last upper and lower teeth on my left side were no longer meeting and it was b/c the 2 crowns on the same lower side were now higher than than the last tooth - so he said - no problem we will just crown that too - so I said but that tooth has been that height since my teens and there is nothing wrong with it so why destroy it for a crown - if anything is wrong its the 2 crowns in front of it - and he said how do you know that and I said b/c that side is aching and only started when you did the crowns - and he said but you are aching b/c the last tooth is not meeting the one above it - and I said but it used to before you did the crowns - we went around and around the same issue I finally just said forget it and I am not crowning that back tooth.

What makes me nuts is you get some guys that fight for every tooth to the point you want to say forget about it and pull it and they refuse and then you get these guys that have no qualms with messing up good tooth just to make money for themselves.

Lastly - I know you hate walking around without your temps but I am now without anything on my teeth and no front teeth either for 18 mos. I don't feel self-conscious about it with my family but do in social settings so I just don't smile with my mouth open - I just grin - I try not to open my mouth too wide to speak either. I am sure others like my neighbors have noticed it but sometimes I think maybe not - one neighbor asked me if I was interested in meeting a single friend of his - to myself I said what are you nuts - I have no teeth - they guy will bolt when he meets me - but I just said no thanks I wasn't interested righ tnow - but then I thought well maybe this neighbor hasn't noticed it - I don't know. Or maybe his friend has no teeth and he thought we would make a good pair - LOL.

Well thought I would leave you both with this - this morning within 10 mins, I lost my slippers, one sock and a tube of toothpaste (yes - I try and keep my stubs clean) - found everything over the course of the day and can't remember putting them there and then tonight I was on the phone with my sister discussing xmas gifts for my nephew and at one point she said to me - in a nice way - what is wong with you, I told you this at least 5-6 times already - don't you retain anything ?- and I said no, not really - I am so pre-occupied with a pain here or there or a feeling in my foot that usually means a facial spasm is going to happen although I think I am listening to you I am really focused on other things. My braine is like a sieve lately - everythting just tpasses right by - within minutes too, like it never happened.

Well the meds just kicked in so I need to wrap it up now - its later than usual even for me, so 'night guys - talk to you tomorrow.