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Old 12-30-2010, 07:38 AM   #1
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The great Pomegranate Juice debate....

Hi Everyone,

This post is not whether the juice actually works to fight prostate cancer or not, but about the great difference in price between brands. I hope the stuff works, because I continue to take my 8 oz. daily in the hope that it will stave off a return of my gleason 8 after my salvage radiation.

In our local super market, I see that the price of Pom Wonderful for a bottle is $ 12.99. And PomWonderful is made from concentrate and is not 100% juice. The stuff that I buy is called "Aurora" and is made and imported from Azerbaijan and is 100% juice and not made from concentrate. The cost is only $ 4.99 for a litre bottle. Quite a difference!

I have no idea whether or not there is actually a difference in the effectiveness of either brand, but I won't pay $12.99 for juice made from concentrate, when I can get real juice for almost 1/3 less. The taste of my stuff takes a little getting used to because it has a very strong and distinct flavor. I hope that means that it is good.

I wanted to post this for any of you folks out there that take pomegranate juice for the same reason I do. Bottoms up!

Have a great holiday everyone.

Lionel

 
Old 12-30-2010, 10:49 AM   #2
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Re: The great Pomegranate Juice debate....

An alternative to juice, and possibly cheaper, is to take pills, available on the net or health food stores. The active ingredient, if there is one, is Ellagic Acid. You can shop for Ellagic Acid, Pomegranate Extract or Red Raspberry Extract pills and get whichever is cheapest.

 
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Old 12-31-2010, 05:28 PM   #3
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Re: The great Pomegranate Juice debate....

Hi Lionel, Allen, and all who are interested in this topic,

I have been highly impressed by the preliminary evidence, particularly a Phase II trial run by a highly respected group at UCLA, and its official extension. Like so many of us, I am eager to see results of similar trials run independently by other institutions, as well as follow-up work by UCLA. Results should be available soon, but I just checked PubMed and did not seen anything fresh from such new trials. (The search at www.pubmed.gov, using " prostate cancer AND pomegranate ", netted 38 hits.

Good quality pomegranate juice or a quality extract capsule is likely to contain a mix of numerous nutrients found in the pomegranate. Lab research suggests that a number of these different elements have a favorable impact on prostate cancer. I've heard some of the research presented, using gene microarray evidence, and was impressed. I've also read some of the non-trial studies. If you are interested, take a look at some of the abstracts available at PubMed (a site we can use because it is Government sponsored). For instance, the recent (last month) study by Gasmi and Sanderson stated: "... Punicic acid, an important fatty acid in pomegranate seeds, was further found to induce intrinsic apoptosis [meaning, in this study, prostate cancer cell death].... In conclusion, punicic acid, the main constituent of pomegranate seed (70-80%), exhibited potent growth inhibitory activities in androgen-dependent LNCaP cells [That's a kind of prostate cancer cell studied in the lab which is still sensitive to the withdrawal of androgens, in other words, hormonal therapy.], which appear to be mediated [brought about] by both antiandrogenic [meaning that testosterone and, per this reserch, DHT, are countered to some extent] and pro-apoptotic [meaning promoting prostate cancer cell death] mechanisms." I'm keeping an eye on research from Dr. Heber (well known in nutrition circles), a leading researcher on pomegranate and prostate cancer.

Ellagic acid is a component of pomegranates and other fruit, but it appears other components are more important in giving pomegranate juice and extract what appears to be extraordinary impact. Some of the research indicates that low-quality "pomegranate juices" overemphasize the ellagic acid but lack or have just a little of the distinctive elements of pomegranate juice.

I'll insert some thoughts in green.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher37 View Post
...

In our local super market, I see that the price of Pom Wonderful for a bottle is $ 12.99. And PomWonderful is made from concentrate and is not 100% juice. The stuff that I buy is called "Aurora" and is made and imported from Azerbaijan and is 100% juice and not made from concentrate. The cost is only $ 4.99 for a litre bottle. Quite a difference!
I too was put off by the price for POM Wonderful, though I like the taste, but I have heard and seen some evidence that quality makes a difference, and quality often costs more. I have heard one highly respected physician/researcher specializing in prostate cancer state that light and heat can reduce the potency of the juice. POM Wonderful juice is the only brand I know of that is refrigerated. However, it is in clear containers, so I'm not sure if POM Wonderful juice is affected much by light. That said, at least one physician specializing in prostate cancer believes he is seeing a benefit in his patients consuming POM Wonderful.

The POM Wonderful company has published some research it conducted into the potency of its own and competing products. That research (possibly biased, of course) revealed three other brands that were fairly close to the POM Wonderful quality results, but it also identified numerous brands that scored low on the quality tests. However, I no longer can locate that publication. It may have been withdrawn due to an order from the FDA. (While POM Wonderful and some other complementary and integrative medicine advocacy organizations are angry with the FDA, they forget that the FDA's caution has a highly rewarding good side. For instance, while Europe, Canada, and the UK suffered an epidemic of babies born with terrible birth defects, the FDA prevented an outbreak in the US by preventing the premature marketing of thalidomide. (Incidentally, that's a drug that has given me many extra months of time off the heavy duty hormonal blockade drugs. It is now available in the US under extremely strict procedures.)

I like the juice, but I'm not fond of the extra sugar, a proportion typical for an 8 oz. juice beverage. Therefore, I'm using extract tablets. Research indicates that well-designed extract tablets have the same potency as the juice, as Allen suggests. I have used two of the leading brands.


Quote:
I have no idea whether or not there is actually a difference in the effectiveness of either brand, but I won't pay $12.99 for juice made from concentrate, when I can get real juice for almost 1/3 less.
I too prefer unconcentrated juice to rehydrated concentrate for taste, but I doubt if use of a concentrate makes much of a difference in potency. Quality is key!

The best current test of whether something is working to control prostate cancer for patients with recurrences is the PSA test. For instance, lengthening of the PSA doubling time was the key evidence of effectiveness in the UCLA trial. If consuming the juice from Azerbaijan is the only thing in your program to counter PC that you have changed, and if your PSA goes down, stabilizes, or goes up at a slower rate, then that would be a piece of evidence suggesting that that particular brand of juice is potent.

I've changed some aspects of my own program over the past year. One is to consume four high quality curcumin capsules daily, and that is in the context of the rest of my program, which includes one pomegranate extract capsule daily. Something seems to be giving me an edge in better PSA results compared to my two previous "off-therapy" vacation periods from the heavy duty hormonal therapy drugs. It's possible that the curcumin, the pomegranate, the combination, or these elements in the context of the rest of my program are helping. I hope to get a another piece of evidence confirming an improved PSA trend in two weeks. In past "off-therapy" periods, in the eleven years I've been on intermittent hormonal therapy, I have not found anything that made a substantial difference in my PSA trend. I hope that I'm now on to something.


Quote:
The taste of my stuff takes a little getting used to because it has a very strong and distinct flavor. I hope that means that it is good.
...
I believe that all pomegranate juice has a strong and distinct flavor, and I doubt that the taste is reliable evidence of potency. It would be great to find a low-cost but potent brand of pomegranate juice.

Happy New Year to all!

Jim

 
Old 01-01-2011, 08:19 AM   #4
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Re: The great Pomegranate Juice debate....

Hi Jim,

As always, you have given us a lot of info and something to think about. I certainly appreciate your efforts.

I'm sitting here looking at a bottle of the juice that I get and on the ingredients label, there is nothing added, no sugar or anything else, just pure juice. And the nutritional facts show that there is nothing other than pure juice. It does say that the juice is a good source of potassium and is low in sodium.

Since I finished my radiation for recurring cancer about 20 months ago, my psa count has been undetectable. I have no idea whether that's because of the radiation treatment ( I'm sure that has a lot to do with it ) or the fact that I drink 8 oz of this juice every day. Even if it does no good, I like to think that it does and even if it won't prevent the cancer from recurring again, at least it just might slow down the progression of it returning.

Yes, some of the studies I've read about pomogranate juice sound promising and that's good. Let's hope that all the findings are true!

I know one thing about this juice, after 8 oz of it, it sure gives a fellow super pucker-power of the lips and leaves your mouth with the feeling that it's just been sterilized.

Thanks again Jim for all your info and let's keep our fingers crossed that this stuff works whether from concentrate or pure juice. Incidentally, this juice is to be kept refrigerated. There is only one store in my area that sells this particular brand and I guess they must have a huge demand for it. They designate about 2 full shelves for this juice and they restock about every few days!

Have a great day and thanks again for your research....Lionel

 
Old 01-01-2011, 09:53 AM   #5
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Re: The great Pomegranate Juice debate....

Hi Lionel,

I'm replying to your immediately preceding post.

You are making me envious with your undetectable PSA. I sure hope you keep that up! It looks like the radiation did the job.

Here are a couple of details about pomegranate juice. As far as I know, all fruit juices contain sugar, even if it is not added. That's probably true for your juice. However, if you don't have a problem with a little sugar, that's not an issue. I am not diabetic or insulin resistant, but I do try to keep calories down to help control and reduce weight, especially when on Lupron as part of my full triple hormonal blockade cycle.

As for refrigeration, is the juice in your store refrigerated in shipment and before sale (and kept refrigerated after you bring it home)? My impression is that that helps preserve potency. However, I have not been able to find any study on the degree of potency lost if the juice is not kept cold before sale. (I've tried.) Perhaps the loss is relatively small. I just do not know. A much cheaper juice with only a 10% loss of potency, picking figures out of the air as an example, would still give you much better bang-for-the-buck than expensive juice. It would be nice if we could somehow sort this out, but I believe that is not possible at this time.

By the way, I just searched www.clinicaltrials.gov (another site we can use on this board because it is Government sponsored) using the string " prostate cancer AND pomegranate ", which yielded 9 hits. Four of the nine are active and recruiting; four are active but no longer recruiting, and one has been completed. The key UCLA trial is not included; I'm thinking that's because it was completed and reported some time ago. Six of the trials involve pomegranate juice alone (1), pomegranate extract alone (4), or either (1) for patients after primary therapy for prostate cancer. One other trial involves extract pills before prostatectomy. One involves use of POMELLA™ pomegranate extract. The final trial involves "phytochemicals and polyunsaturated fatty acids in prostate cancer patients."

In addition to the POMELLA™ trial (one of the well-regarded supplement sources, as demonstrated through research), one other trial, the completed one, involves a brand name, POM-x from POM Wonderful. This is one of the trials that should report soon. It's title is: "Safety and Efficacy of POMx Capsules in Men with Recurrent Prostate Cancer: An 18-Month Study." It involved men with recurrent prostate cancer (including a rising PSA) who took either 3 or 1 POMx capsule daily. It is a Phase-II, double-blinded trial (meaning neither those managing/delivering the therapy nor the patient know which branch of the study they are in). Enrollment in this multicenter study was 104 patients with a start date of October 2007 and completion date of May 2010, which was the final data collection date for the main outcome measure. Study patient participants agreed to keep their use of supplements steady during the study period. Johns Hopkins is the lead institution, and the principal investigator is JHU's Michael Carducci, MD, a well-known prostate cancer physician/researcher. I'm glad that this team is independent of the UCLA team that did the key initial research. POM Wonderful is listed as the sponsor/collaborator. It often takes a while before reports are published; I've done some checking, and it appears there has been no preliminary report, such as a poster presentation at a medical convention. It's hard to wait for this one!

Take care,

Jim

Last edited by IADT3since2000; 01-01-2011 at 10:02 AM. Reason: Corrected 180-Month to 18-Month shortly after posting. Spelling.

 
Old 01-01-2011, 11:24 AM   #6
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Re: The great Pomegranate Juice debate....

Hi again Jim,

I would agree with you that all juices have their own sugar, even if it is not added. I don't have a problem with diabetes or any of that. I just had a physical from my new family doctor and he did a complete workup on me and everything was fine. I would be a very healthy specimen if it wasn't for the prostate cancer.

As far as the refrigeration aspect of the juice is concerned, the store where I buy it keeps the juice in the cool area ( not really cold ), about the same temperature as the other stores that carry the Pomwonderful juice. It says on the label to keep the juice refrigerated after opening. I don't place a lot of faith in this whole aspect of keeping it cold. Who's to say how it was processed in the plant where the stuff is made and what about shipping it over here on an ocean freighter. Was the stuff really kept refrigerated on the voyage over? When I see examples of how freight is handled on the unloading docks, I can't help but have my doubts.

At any rate, I'm sure it can't hurt to drink this stuff every day, even if it does no more than give me some personal comfort in the fact that I'm doing what I can to keep this cancer suppressed for as long as possible.

Thanks again Jim and have a great day.

Lionel

 
Old 01-30-2011, 11:10 AM   #7
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Re: The great Pomegranate Juice debate....

Can you please tell me where you buy the AURORA?

Thanks so much.

Angela

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher37 View Post
Hi Everyone,

This post is not whether the juice actually works to fight prostate cancer or not, but about the great difference in price between brands. I hope the stuff works, because I continue to take my 8 oz. daily in the hope that it will stave off a return of my gleason 8 after my salvage radiation.

In our local super market, I see that the price of Pom Wonderful for a bottle is $ 12.99. And PomWonderful is made from concentrate and is not 100% juice. The stuff that I buy is called "Aurora" and is made and imported from Azerbaijan and is 100% juice and not made from concentrate. The cost is only $ 4.99 for a litre bottle. Quite a difference!

I have no idea whether or not there is actually a difference in the effectiveness of either brand, but I won't pay $12.99 for juice made from concentrate, when I can get real juice for almost 1/3 less. The taste of my stuff takes a little getting used to because it has a very strong and distinct flavor. I hope that means that it is good.

I wanted to post this for any of you folks out there that take pomegranate juice for the same reason I do. Bottoms up!

Have a great holiday everyone.

Lionel

 
Old 01-31-2011, 10:28 AM   #8
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Re: The great Pomegranate Juice debate....

Quote:
Originally Posted by angelamoore View Post
Can you please tell me where you buy the AURORA?

Thanks so much.

Angela
Hi Angela,

I buy the "Aurora" juice at a local neighbourhood store. The name of the store is called " Pupo's " and is located in Welland On. As far as I know, this is the only store that carries it, and apparently the reason is because so many people requested it. When they first started to carry it, they only stocked maybe about one shelve of the juice and it was gone within the first day. If you didn't show up when the shelve was first stocked, you were out of luck. Now they have a constant supply of the stuff and they stock several shelves. The store seems to make sure they don't run out. I usually buy about six bottles at a time and I keep a good supply at home.

I'm sure that there must be other stores that carry it, but so far I haven't found any in this area. Maybe you could ask your local grocery store manager if they can get it for you.

Good luck in your search for the magic elixer ( I hope ).

Lionel

 
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