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Old 03-02-2011, 04:49 PM   #1
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High PSA after Radical Prostatectomy

Prior to the Prostectomy my PSA was 66, Gleason = 3+4. Six months after the surgery my PSA = 25. Eighteen my after surgery my PSA = 8.2 and it has been steady or dropping for ~ 8 months. I am taking numerous alternative supplements: Budwig, ellagic acid, curcumin, green tea extract...

I have not seen others with a similar history. What's happening?

 
Old 03-03-2011, 04:05 AM   #2
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Re: High PSA after Radical Prostatectomy

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04chris View Post
Prior to the Prostectomy my PSA was 66, Gleason = 3+4. Six months after the surgery my PSA = 25. Eighteen my after surgery my PSA = 8.2 and it has been steady or dropping for ~ 8 months. I am taking numerous alternative supplements: Budwig, ellagic acid, curcumin, green tea extract...

I have not seen others with a similar history. What's happening?
Chris,

Your PSA 6-weeks after RP should be less than 0.05 (remission) to indicate that the treatment has been successful. The logic is that "No prostate then No high PSA". Something is causing that number of PSA=8.2. It could be either benign or cancer cells left behind.
Your manipulations with supplements may cause the drop in PSA but it may not be killing the cells "manufacturing" the serum.
You should consult with your doctor the soonest.

Wishing you the best.
Baptista

 
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:10 AM   #3
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Re: High PSA after Radical Prostatectomy

After your RP what did the patholigy report say about GS? Is it possible that you had some type of radation? Like Baptista says your GP should be providing you with some answers and alternatives. Please keep us informed.

 
Old 03-03-2011, 05:44 PM   #4
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Re: High PSA after Radical Prostatectomy

I would be concerned with your PSA reading. Did you get a post RP pathology report and confirm your Gleason. It is a more accurate representation of the Gleason. Unfortunately in my case it was upgraded to a 9.

I had a RP in 2005. In my case 5 months after my RP with a PSA around 8. I decided to follow up with Radiation and at the same time started single hormone blockade. I am now on Intermittent Triple Blockade. I would have started triple blockade sooner if I had known about it. If you have not read DR Myer’s Beating Prostate Cancer: Hormone Therapy and Diet. I would recommend it. I am currently off triple blockade and taking only Avodart having reduced my PSA to <,01. my PSA is rising but it is too early to effectively plot accurately.

I know my case based on the Gleason is more problematic however a Gleason 7 and your post RP PSA’s would definitely have me talking to a Radiation Oncologist and an Oncologist specializing in Prostate Cancer. The more experienced with prostate cancer the better. Urologists and GP’s often are not well versed on radiation or hormone therapy advances. A good center for radiation opinion is in Loma Linda, I know there are proponents of triple hormone Blockade in LA area, not sure out your way.

All the best

 
Old 03-10-2011, 11:47 AM   #5
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Re: High PSA after Radical Prostatectomy

04chris
This might mean that your surgery has failed and you need to seek further treatment immediately. My radical prostatectomy failed and I was treated successfully at Loma Linda with Proton Therapy. Contact them or someone else today.

 
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Old 03-13-2011, 07:03 PM   #6
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Re: High PSA after Radical Prostatectomy

Harpman -- Thanks for the tip,
I just contacted Loma Linda by email for an appointment. Is there a particular doctor that you would recommend?

TY -- dale

 
Old 03-13-2011, 08:34 PM   #7
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Re: High PSA after Radical Prostatectomy

Dr. Jabola was my doctor during Proton Therapy and he was very good. Phone if you don't get a quick response as you never know about email. Good Luck

 
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Old 04-01-2011, 02:46 PM   #8
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Re: High PSA after Radical Prostatectomy

Don' think that Loma Linda is the cure all for post surgical prostate with a later rise in PSA. I had surgery in 2002 was PSA free for three years. With diet and exercise I was able to keep it stable @ .1 to .4 for four years. In 2009 it broke out to .7 then up over 1. I went to Loma Linda and went through the entire salvage radiation program. It is now 16+ months since my procedure and my PSA is back up to where it was before Proton. I know some guys have had success with the treatment. You should know that it may not work for you though.

 
Old 04-01-2011, 03:14 PM   #9
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Re: High PSA after Radical Prostatectomy

jwick527
I had surgery in Sep 01, recurred in Apr 03, and started Proton Dec 09 with PSA 0.48 and so far things are good. Feb 1/11 PSA 0.03.
What tests did you have before treatment? Did you have all Proton or a mix of Proton and Photon? How did your PSA initially respond to the treatment?

If you do this search with Google "procure An Effective and Powerful Tool" and click on the top link returned you will see a heading, "An Effective and Powerful Tool". Reading down the page to "Clinical Benefits" then down to, "In addition, proton therapy" it says:

"Can be used to treat recurrent tumors even in patients who have already received radiation (standard radiation can only be used in the same area once)".

I don't know if this would apply to your case but it may be worth checking out.
Best of luck,
Bob

 
Old 04-01-2011, 06:18 PM   #10
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Re: High PSA after Radical Prostatectomy

Bob:
Thanks for the info. I had all Proton, 36 or 38 treatments as I remember. After sixty days my PSA retreated from a pretreatment level of 1.3 down to
.37; I was estactic and thought I was on easy street. At five months I was @
.4 which is basically the same so I thought no issues. However my next two 90 days tests went .7 then 1 and now back up to 1.3 which is what it was 16 months ago or just before the start of my Proton in November of 2009. I concluded treatment in mid January 2010.


Quote:
Originally Posted by harpman View Post
jwick527
I had surgery in Sep 01, recurred in Apr 03, and started Proton Dec 09 with PSA 0.48 and so far things are good. Feb 1/11 PSA 0.03.
What tests did you have before treatment? Did you have all Proton or a mix of Proton and Photon? How did your PSA initially respond to the treatment?

If you do this search with Google "procure An Effective and Powerful Tool" and click on the top link returned you will see a heading, "An Effective and Powerful Tool". Reading down the page to "Clinical Benefits" then down to, "In addition, proton therapy" it says:

"Can be used to treat recurrent tumors even in patients who have already received radiation (standard radiation can only be used in the same area once)".

I don't know if this would apply to your case but it may be worth checking out.
Best of luck,
Bob

 
Old 04-02-2011, 12:16 PM   #11
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Re: High PSA after Radical Prostatectomy

Hi again Dale (Chris),

I've read through the five responses to date of your unusual PSA history after the failed RP and thought I'd add my two cents. You wrote:


Quote:
Originally Posted by 04chris View Post
Prior to the Prostectomy my PSA was 66, Gleason = 3+4. Six months after the surgery my PSA = 25. Eighteen my after surgery my PSA = 8.2 and it has been steady or dropping for ~ 8 months. I am taking numerous alternative supplements: Budwig, ellagic acid, curcumin, green tea extract...

I have not seen others with a similar history. What's happening?
I believe you are succeeding in controlling the cancer with your supplement program. However, as I'm sure you are aware, continued close surveillance is important. I think I've mentioned before that the Budwig approach looks bogus, with no sound research in support, and I suspect it is harming rather than helping. Doctors I highly respect who are deeply into supplements, nutrition and lifestyle tactics to support our situations also think this about Budwig. Another point is that your program probably would not work as impressively for many other patients, but it might work well for some. I hope you can keep it up.

Maybe some of our radiation veterans who are into research can help here, but my impression is that radiation in a post-RP salvage role seldom works well when PSAs are as high as yours is now. Should you decide you want a more aggressive approach, what is highly likely to work well is hormonal therapy, especially, in my view, triple hormonal blockade with an LHRH-agonist, an antiandrogen (bicalutamide most likely), and finasteride or Avodart for the third element, plus a bone density protective drug with associated supplements, all buttressed with a lifestyle tactics and statin program.

Are you on a statin now? We have two recent threads running about statins. They look highly important for us guys with advanced cases. (Please remember though, I'm a fellow survivor with no enrolled medical education).

I find your current success inspiring.

Take care,

Jim

 
Old 04-02-2011, 01:47 PM   #12
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Re: High PSA after Radical Prostatectomy

Quote:
Originally Posted by IADT3since2000 View Post
Hi again Dale (Chris),

I've read through the five responses to date of your unusual PSA history after the failed RP and thought I'd add my two cents. You wrote:




I believe you are succeeding in controlling the cancer with your supplement program. However, as I'm sure you are aware, continued close surveillance is important. I think I've mentioned before that the Budwig approach looks bogus, with no sound research in support, and I suspect it is harming rather than helping. Doctors I highly respect who are deeply into supplements, nutrition and lifestyle tactics to support our situations also think this about Budwig. Another point is that your program probably would not work as impressively for many other patients, but it might work well for some. I hope you can keep it up.

Maybe some of our radiation veterans who are into research can help here, but my impression is that radiation in a post-RP salvage role seldom works well when PSAs are as high as yours is now. Should you decide you want a more aggressive approach, what is highly likely to work well is hormonal therapy, especially, in my view, triple hormonal blockade with an LHRH-agonist, an antiandrogen (bicalutamide most likely), and finasteride or Avodart for the third element, plus a bone density protective drug with associated supplements, all buttressed with a lifestyle tactics and statin program.

Are you on a statin now? We have two recent threads running about statins. They look highly important for us guys with advanced cases. (Please remember though, I'm a fellow survivor with no enrolled medical education).

I find your current success inspiring.

Take care,

Jim

 
Old 04-02-2011, 02:20 PM   #13
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Re: High PSA after Radical Prostatectomy

Thanks again Jim -- your encouragement is a big help!

Just a quick update. My PSA contiues to stay at ~8 (now for roughly a year). Just had a bone scan that came out negative. I have mixed emotions about Budwig. I am now using methionine powder to supply the sulferated protein required to make the flax oil water soluble and therefore making oxygen transferable to the cancer cells (I don't have a clue if this is really working). Like I've said -- I'm kinda' using a shotgun approach.
Also, I haven't mentioned that I've been taking doxycycline for about 8 months. There are some studies that show a possible help in reducing PC metastasis into bones (see Zeina Saikali and Gurmit Singh,b. studies) They have also tried Chemically Modified Tetracycline (CMT) that seems to work even better. I told my family doctor it has worked with mice -- he said that I'm not a mouse. :-) Has anyone else tried doxycycline or CMT? If you use the doxycycline it helps to take a probiotic to replace the good bacteria that is being killed.
My best guess right now is that the pomegranite powder is helping the most. Two tablespoons of highly concentrated powder in a smoothie should kill just about anything.
Thanks again -- dale

 
Old 04-02-2011, 04:40 PM   #14
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Question Nearly constant PSA after radical prostatectomy?

I'm not sure how to interpret my PSA test results. I have a PSA test monthly. For roughly the last year my PSA has been at 8 (plus or minus 1). Since I don't have a prostate, I am assuming that my PSA is caused by (and correlated with) the amount of prostate cancer cells.
Question: My PSA is staying nearly constant because:
a. an equal amount of PC cells are being created as those that are dying?
b. PC cells are not dying and the amount is staying nearly constant?
c. the size or type of cancer cells are changing causing the nearly constant values?
d. the location of the cells are changing (e.g., going from the blood to bone)?
e. My assumption that PSA and PC cells are correlated is incorrect

Thanks for any insight -- dale

 
Old 04-02-2011, 07:36 PM   #15
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Re: High PSA after Radical Prostatectomy

04chris
There are no guarantees but even after a failed RP the cancer may still be in the pelvic area. Have you read the Surgical Pathology? Did the Surgical Pathology indicate postive margins? Did they remove the seminal vesicles? A cure may still be possible and I would exhaust all possible radiation options if possible. With a scan such as Prostascint with Fusion they may be able to find a target.
Bob

 
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