It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Cancer: Prostate Message Board
Post New Thread   Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-04-2011, 08:15 AM   #1
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 19
brendak329 HB Userbrendak329 HB User
PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

Hi, I have been reading alot since my husbands scores, PSA 49 Gleason 8-10. Upon examination his cancer could be felt and he has symptoms. All I read is that this a a poor prognosis. Could anybody spread more light on these scores? He is scheduled for a bone and cat scan this week.
Thank you for your time

Brenda

 
Old 03-04-2011, 01:03 PM   #2
Senior Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: WI
Posts: 117
Gleason9 HB UserGleason9 HB UserGleason9 HB UserGleason9 HB UserGleason9 HB UserGleason9 HB UserGleason9 HB User
Re: PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

Hi Brenda,

I'm sorry to hear the news. I hope as you learn more that your husband will find the best approach to dealing with this disease.

The facts you've presented so far don't really tell us much. It would be nice to know the exact Gleason score, your husband's age, as well as more information about the biopsy. Even the PSA you mentioned only hints at the potential seriousness of the condition. It would be nice to know the progression of PSA over time. The bone and cat scans will certainly tell you more, and I hope you share the results with us.

I don't think you should start to despair just yet. Even for more high-risk cases, there are plenty of treatment options and reason for hope. As you can tell from my name, I have a high risk case as well. Because the cancer was localized to the prostate, I could have surgery. Even then, I still have a 50% chance of recurrence. But I know that there are modalities that should be quite effective.

Of course there are other options besides surgery -- which might not even be advisable for your husband. Browse the posts here, which mention helpful books such as Invasion of the Body Snatchers. For your husband's case, perhaps even a better place to start is the Prostate Cancer Research Institute site, which goes into great detail about treatment options, particularly for high risk cases.

Wishing you and your husband the best.

Tom

 
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 03-04-2011, 02:25 PM   #3
Inactive
(male)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Kamloops, BC, Canada
Posts: 193
harpman HB Userharpman HB Userharpman HB Userharpman HB Userharpman HB Userharpman HB Userharpman HB User
Re: PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

Hi Brenda,

I hope your husband has received treatment by now. If not I will recommend Proton Therapy. I received Proton Therapy at Loma Linda University Medical Center ending Jan 31/10 and recommend Loma Linda. I am confident that my recurrent prostate cancer is cured even after the incomplete surgery I received in Canada in 2001.

 
Old 03-04-2011, 02:57 PM   #4
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 19
brendak329 HB Userbrendak329 HB User
Re: PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

My husband is 50 years old. He had a second PSA drawn. The first was 49, this last one was 84. He is not receiving any treatment. Once the CAT scan and bone scan are complete I assume that is when we will hear treatment options. The Dr. told me that the cancer was aggressive. I asked him what that means and he said in a mumble, well it means possible death. He could feel the cancer quite well. My husband has had symptoms for years and did not get it taken care of until his urine flow was different. He says he can "feel" something in is pelvis as if he has a rock in there. I am trying to keep my head up but it is not easy with everything turning out as the worse case scenario for us. I spoke to John Hopkins today and I am making an appointment with them to set up an assessment team on Monday. He will not physically see them until the CAT and bone scans are complete. My husband cried himself to sleep last night. I have never seen him cry. I don't know if I should tell him the results of the second PSA test, I am afraid it will just scare him more.

 
The following 3 users give hugs of support to: brendak329
Baptista (03-05-2011), IADT3since2000 (03-04-2011), kennethr1 (03-14-2011)
Old 03-04-2011, 05:16 PM   #5
Newbie
(male)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5
3YearSurvivior HB User
Re: PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

Do not despair yet. I was diagnoised with a PSA of 132.4. My scans were clear, no evidence of cancer spreading even with such a high PSA. My biopsy was GS 7 and all cores nearly 100% cancer. I was 47 at the time, that was almost 6 years ago. I have been very careful with diet and exercise and drugs ever since. I was on ADT for 5 years and had IMRT. I hope my story gives you hope. Peace

 
The Following User Says Thank You to 3YearSurvivior For This Useful Post:
IADT3since2000 (03-04-2011)
Old 03-04-2011, 08:23 PM   #6
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Annandale, VA, USA
Posts: 1,730
Blog Entries: 3
IADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB User
Re: PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

Hi Brenda,

Your husband's case is serious (as is mine), but there is a solid basis for hope! The result could be surviving the cancer, or it could be many good years.

Many of us with challenging cases are given short prognoses by our doctors, often five years, or sometimes just a couple of years. Fortunately, they often do not know what they are talking about! In my case, with numbers remarkably close to what 3YearSurvivior describes for his own case but with a diagnosis at age 56 and now in my twelfth year as a survivor and doing very well. I was given a prognosis of five years - three good years and two declining years, by two excellent (but quite mistaken) doctors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brendak329 View Post
My husband is 50 years old. He had a second PSA drawn. The first was 49, this last one was 84. He is not receiving any treatment. Once the CAT scan and bone scan are complete I assume that is when we will hear treatment options.
Would you mind telling us the dates of those two PSAs? The "velocity" of the PSA increase is a valuable clue, though, obviously, it is going up at a pretty good clip. The other information mentioned by Gleason9 would also be helpful. Will you be getting the results of those scans very shortly? With this kind of case, your husband should begin treatment shortly. Surgery is not an option at this point. Radiation has some chance of being helpful in such cases.

However, that treatment is highly likely to be a form of hormonal therapy, perhaps combined with a short and remarkably tolerable course of chemotherapy. Hormonal therapy has been my sole therapy, and I'm convinced it should be a "triple therapy" approach for someone like your husband. That means using either castration (yuk - almost all of us prefer the drugs, whose effects are reversible if we make enough progress, as many do) or an LHRH-agonist (such as Lupron, Zoladex, Viadur, Trelstar) (or the new antagonist - degarelix), an antiandrogen (usually bicalutamide - the generic and much less expensive version of Casodex, probably at 150 mg daily), and a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor drug (usually Avodart now, but could be finasteride at one or two pills daily). Check the threads by Rhonda50 as her husband just succeeded on getting on that therapy.

It is also very likely that your husband will need some form of bone density protection. That could range from mild drugs like Fosamax, Actonel or Boniva to the most powerful drug, Zometa, given at short intervals if there are existing bone mets. Those lifestyle tactics that "3YearSurvivior" mentioned are also very important, we think.

In addition to the book "Invaders ..." mentioned earlier, two essential books for patients with high risk cases are "A Primer on Prostate Cancer -- The Empowered Patient's Guide," and "Beating Prostate Cancer: Hormonal Therapy & Diet." The first is full of key facts about hormonal therapy (as well as many other therapies). "Beating ..." delivers a wonderful dose of well-based optimism as well as great information and critical insights for those of us with advanced cases.


Quote:
The Dr. told me that the cancer was aggressive. I asked him what that means and he said in a mumble, well it means possible death. He could feel the cancer quite well.
I'm not fond of that reaction. While it has a good basis, the doctor does not appear to be aware of the approaches that can give us a good fighting chance. You and your husband may need to find a more optimistic doctor.

Quote:
My husband has had symptoms for years and did not get it taken care of until his urine flow was different. He says he can "feel" something in is pelvis as if he has a rock in there.
So many of us ignore key signs or are in denial. However, a guilt trip does not help. Dr. Myers, a renowned medical oncologist and author of "Beating...", had to cope with his own challenging case, and he has admitted that he put off getting a PSA test that would have likely made his treatment easeir. (He's doing very well at the thirteenth year point.)

Quote:
I am trying to keep my head up but it is not easy with everything turning out as the worse case scenario for us. I spoke to John Hopkins today and I am making an appointment with them to set up an assessment team on Monday. He will not physically see them until the CAT and bone scans are complete.
I too consulted Johns Hopkins. It is a wonderful institution, especially for prostate cancer surgery, and it has some great chemo docs. However, it is not so hot when it comes to hormonal therapy, which is probably what your husband needs. (A Hopkins doctor was one of the docs who gave me that short prognosis. Maybe he was right; I could be a ghost going on seven years now; but I can type; guess I'm not a ghost. ) Be wary of a clinical trial offer. If the doctor with whom you consult is not up beat and confident, you should probably go elsewhere.

Quote:
My husband cried himself to sleep last night. I have never seen him cry.
It's so rough when it looks like all your life expectations have suddenly gone up in smoke! For a while after my diagnosis, my wife and I wondered whether we would ever have another joyful day. We were low at the beginning, but the joy appeared much sooner than we expected - weeks. Hope took a while longer - months, and confidence still longer - years. However, that was in 2000 and the experts know so much more now. I'm confident you and your husband will follow that same trail, but I think you will arrive at confidence much sooner than I did.

Quote:
I don't know if I should tell him the results of the second PSA test, I am afraid it will just scare him more.
Get those books, and get him to read "Beating ..." first! The author starts out with that strong dose of optimism that I mentioned. Then you might suggest that he read the chapter with the three case histories, all with men whose PSAs had broken the 1,000 threshold, yet who were able to achieve wonderful success. Then tell him that second PSA number.

You are going to have many questions. I hope you will come back. Until those books arrive, take Tom's suggestion and check for publications by PCRI, a non-profit organization dedicated to patient education.

Take care,

Jim

 
The following user gives a hug of support to IADT3since2000:
harpman (03-04-2011)
Old 03-05-2011, 07:35 AM   #7
Veteran
(male)
 
Baptista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Albufeira, Portugal
Posts: 464
Baptista HB UserBaptista HB UserBaptista HB UserBaptista HB UserBaptista HB UserBaptista HB UserBaptista HB UserBaptista HB UserBaptista HB UserBaptista HB UserBaptista HB User
Re: PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

Quote:
Originally Posted by brendak329 View Post
My husband is 50 years old. He had a second PSA drawn. The first was 49, this last one was 84. He is not receiving any treatment. Once the CAT scan and bone scan are complete I assume that is when we will hear treatment options. The Dr. told me that the cancer was aggressive. I asked him what that means and he said in a mumble, well it means possible death. He could feel the cancer quite well. My husband has had symptoms for years and did not get it taken care of until his urine flow was different. He says he can "feel" something in is pelvis as if he has a rock in there. I am trying to keep my head up but it is not easy with everything turning out as the worse case scenario for us. I spoke to John Hopkins today and I am making an appointment with them to set up an assessment team on Monday. He will not physically see them until the CAT and bone scans are complete. My husband cried himself to sleep last night. I have never seen him cry. I don't know if I should tell him the results of the second PSA test, I am afraid it will just scare him more.
Brenda

Sorry to hear of your husband diagnosis. His PSA is high and so it is the Gleason score. He is going to need your support to overcome this terrifying moment.
I was diagnosed with cancer at my 50th years old too and I also cried. Even though my status (Gs 6, PSA=24.2) was better than your husband’s, all of that happen ten years ago and I could beat any prognosis.
There is evidence to show that your husband will defeat your doctor’s comment. Just tell him of the many stories of patients whom did succeed in this fight.
Do you have a pathological report from the biopsy? What is his Clinical Stage?
And, What is the chronology of the events?.

An eMRI would better help in identifying any possible cancer spread in the pelvic area. This could influence the type of treatment you will choose.
You could as well read about treatment options and the side effects by typing the sentence in a net search engine. The side effects differ among treatments and you should be aware of what could happen in a worse scenario.
These should be part of your questions to your doctor in your next visit.

In contrary to other fellows posting here, I think that your husband should be aware of the latest PSA results. He needs to start taking the “command” of his case as well as become educated with this “ugly” disease.

Wishing the best to you both.
Baptista

 
Old 03-05-2011, 10:13 AM   #8
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Posts: 332
honda50 HB Userhonda50 HB Userhonda50 HB Userhonda50 HB Userhonda50 HB Userhonda50 HB User
Re: PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

Hi Brenda:

I'm so sorry to hear about your husband's challenging cancer, but you've come to the right place. I've gained so much knowledge and hope from the board members here, as I'm sure you will too, and through you, hope will be gained by your husband as well.

At the beginning, everything seems so overwhelming, but with knowledge comes a sense of empowerment. Never give up and just get the information you need and become an advocate for him.

It's tough to be strong, especially when you see your husband cry. I'm sure you just want to fall apart with him. However, the fact that you even found this board in the first place, demonstrates your strength and tenacity. You know that famous saying, "Behind Every Successful Man is a Woman".....Just keep fighting for strength and hope for both of you, and success for your husband.

Jim, back to your post and I've heard it before, with regards to the 150 mg of bicalutamide vs. 50 mg. Am I right to assume, when metastasis is expected or discovered, that 150 mg would be more appropriate? In Irv's case, he's on 50 mg and I'm imagining, at this point, that is sufficient for him, but I'm unsure. I'd appreciate other opinions on that.

Rhonda

 
Old 03-05-2011, 03:00 PM   #9
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Annandale, VA, USA
Posts: 1,730
Blog Entries: 3
IADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB User
Re: PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

Hi Rhonda,

I'm responding in green to your question in the previous post about the dosage for Casodex/bicalutamide.


Quote:
... Jim, back to your post and I've heard it before, with regards to the 150 mg of bicalutamide vs. 50 mg. Am I right to assume, when metastasis is expected or discovered, that 150 mg would be more appropriate? In Irv's case, he's on 50 mg and I'm imagining, at this point, that is sufficient for him, but I'm unsure. I'd appreciate other opinions on that.

Rhonda
All of the doctors I consider experts in hormonal therapy use 150 mg of bicalutamide when metastases have been detected. Some of them also use 150 mg even if there are no detectable metastases, but others do not. I have always been on just 50 when in the "on-therapy" phase of intermittent treatment; that has worked just fine for me. If the PSA drops sharply and reaches <0.05 on just 50 mg, that's good proof that 50 mg is enough. If it does not drop sharply, increasing the dose is a reasonable tactic, based on what I've heard and read.

Take care,

Jim

 
Old 03-05-2011, 06:15 PM   #10
Inactive
(male)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Kamloops, BC, Canada
Posts: 193
harpman HB Userharpman HB Userharpman HB Userharpman HB Userharpman HB Userharpman HB Userharpman HB User
Re: PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

Brenda,
There is a new Proton Center at Hampton University in Virginia. You have lots of options and many great facilities in your area so check them out quickly because you need to be aggressive.

 
Old 03-06-2011, 04:29 PM   #11
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Annandale, VA, USA
Posts: 1,730
Blog Entries: 3
IADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB User
Re: PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

Hi Brenda,

I'm responding to harpman's suggestion of proton therapy in post #10.

I am not aware of any encouraging results for proton therapy for high risk cases. If proton therapy is appealing, be sure you take a look at its results for high risk cases.

Take care,

Jim

 
Old 03-06-2011, 05:45 PM   #12
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Posts: 332
honda50 HB Userhonda50 HB Userhonda50 HB Userhonda50 HB Userhonda50 HB Userhonda50 HB User
Re: PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

Jim, do you think that would also be the case for Irv? I know that, although there's no evidence of metastasis from the bone scan, Irv's case would also be considered as challenging. I guess the jury is still not out on whether or not Irv should completely abandon the idea of radiation altogether, but it is a consideration we have to weigh out with considerable thought and caution. We certainly wouldn't want to compromise Irv's quality of life without any return on the benefit of the procedure.

Thanks for your input.
Rhonda

 
Old 03-06-2011, 07:11 PM   #13
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Annandale, VA, USA
Posts: 1,730
Blog Entries: 3
IADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB UserIADT3since2000 HB User
Re: PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

Hi Rhonda,

You asked the following in response to my post just prior to yours:


Quote:
Originally Posted by honda50 View Post
Jim, do you think that would also be the case for Irv? I know that, although there's no evidence of metastasis from the bone scan, Irv's case would also be considered as challenging. I guess the jury is still not out on whether or not Irv should completely abandon the idea of radiation altogether, but it is a consideration we have to weigh out with considerable thought and caution. We certainly wouldn't want to compromise Irv's quality of life without any return on the benefit of the procedure.

Thanks for your input.
Rhonda
One point that's clear is that Irv does not have a low-risk case. I don't feel confident beyond that regarding salvage radiation, but you hit the nail on the head in your phrase that it will need to be weighed with considerable thought and caution.

In a very rough sense, Irv and I are facing similar situations regarding radiation: there is probably a substantial likelihood of unwelcome and perhaps permanent side effects of an adequate and broad enough dose of radiation, for Irv because of his colon history and for me because of possible wide micro spread. On the other hand of course, there is a chance for a cure. I'm comfortable where I am because I'm doing well on intermittent triple blockade, though I recognize I'm taking some risk in not knocking out the cancer in the prostate that is like to be the first location that would become androgen independent. Another factor is that treatment options keep improving while we are on hormonal blockade.

As you put it, this business takes considerable thought and caution.

Take care,

Jim

 
Old 03-06-2011, 08:59 PM   #14
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 19
brendak329 HB Userbrendak329 HB User
Re: PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

Dan and I spent the weekend telling his family that he has cancers. Everybody went through initial shock and tears but then became more positive and hopeful. When I hear "hey I had it and survived" I do not know what to think. Naturally it should make me feel better but part of me does and another part doesn't. I just think that all of this is so individual and no two stories are alike. I read these stories and have heard them as a response from so many friends now that I almost feel silly for feeling so emotional and concerned. I talked to my husband he has identical feelings. Some people have said "my grandfather was diagnosed with prostate cancer when he was 70 and he lived a ripe old age of 93. So should this make me feel better? Should I think oh okay well I should throw all my worries to the wind now because 329 people have either had or know somebody that had this cancer and survived it. I know this all sound angry and unappreciative and I am sorry. I am lost, I am sad, I am afraid and I can't tell anybody because my husband is suffering and I need to support him and not feel sorry for "me." I do appreciate the support on here. I am not sure what my brain is doing right now.

 
The following user gives a hug of support to brendak329:
Baptista (03-07-2011)
The Following User Says Thank You to brendak329 For This Useful Post:
cactionalpha (11-11-2011)
Old 03-06-2011, 09:45 PM   #15
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Posts: 332
honda50 HB Userhonda50 HB Userhonda50 HB Userhonda50 HB Userhonda50 HB Userhonda50 HB User
Re: PSA 49 Gleason 8-10

Honestly, Brenda, people who aren't in our situation don't have a clear understanding of prostate cancer. You can't compare a 70 year old man who gets low-grade prostate cancer to a young guy who gets a challenging case. Obviously, for the older guy, with slow growing, low-risk cancer, he can live for 15 years without a problem and then he's 85. There's a good chance he'll die WITH his cancer and not FROM his cancer when you consider the average life span.

For younger men, it seems, on average, the cancer is often more aggressive. However, regardless of that, the normal remaining life expectancy of a 50 year old vs. a 70 year old is far different.

So, the key is to do everything to either rid the body of the cancer, and, if that isn't possible, do everything possible to keep the cancer under control for as long as possible....Buy time....while other treatments are being developed....

And then go on with life, because the reality is, we're all terminal, we just don't know from what yet..and we don't know when....and that's not different for your husband. Whatever the doctors say is their opinion. They aren't G-d and they don't have a crystal ball, and they're often wrong. Just keep on learning as much as you can and never stop fighting and believe in your fight.

Rhonda

 
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
Carcinoma Gleason score 4+3 meaning! brendonwoodford Cancer: Prostate 27 06-03-2011 12:10 PM
Any Gleason 8 survivors out there? flyfisher37 Cancer: Prostate 18 03-28-2011 10:26 AM
My Husband, 43 yrs. old was just dx with prostate ca, gleason score of 6 sbear1102 Cancer: Prostate 70 03-08-2011 08:41 PM
Gleason 9 (5+4 in three areas) Nassau one Cancer: Prostate 6 04-28-2010 05:50 PM
Dr. Donald Gleason passes away IADT3since2000 Cancer: Prostate 1 02-14-2009 12:11 AM




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Join Our Newsletter

Stay healthy through tips curated by our health experts.

Whoops,

There was a problem adding your email Try again

Thank You

Your email has been added




Top 10 Drugs Discussed on this Board.
(Go to DrugTalk.com for complete list)
Casodex
Cialis
Cipro
Flomax
Levaquin
  Levitra
Morphine
Proscar
Tylenol
Viagra




TOP THANKED CONTRIBUTORS



Tall Allen (174), IADT3since2000 (148), Baptista (97), Gleason9 (28), harpman (27), Johnt1 (22), honda50 (9), tumbleweed (6), flyfisher37 (6), GUAMJOHN (5)

Site Wide Totals

teteri66 (1165), MSJayhawk (1000), Apollo123 (898), Titchou (833), janewhite1 (823), Gabriel (758), ladybud (747), sammy64 (668), midwest1 (665), BlueSkies14 (610)



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:03 PM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.com™
Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.com™ All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!