This is a long story, so please bear with me. I am looking for advice from other moms. My son is 6 years old and has been in day-care since he was 3 months old. We started a new daycare when he was 3 years old and he has been there until this August. When he was 4, he spent the night at the day-care cause MIL was having surgery and DH & I needed to be there. When Grandma picked him up from daycare he told her that our daycare provider's son (age 7 at the time) had touched his pee pee and it hurt. We addressed the situation and the 7 year old was punished. We trusted our daycare enough that we thought that took care of the problem. Well, each summer our son's attitude changed and he got really mouthy. (he played with this kid daily.) We finally decided enough was enough in August and changed daycares. Our son had been playing at the playground alone with this boy (now 10) on a pretty regular basis and he had told us how this boy was being mean to him. (pushing him off the swings, etc.)
Since we have changed daycare we are having trouble with our son inappropriately touching other children. Our neighbor boy (6 also) and our son made a bet that "whoever pulled their pants down first, would win a pokemon card." Typical boy stuff? We addressed it, explained that it is not right to act that way and it better not happen again. Our next situation arose at our new daycare when our son pulled two other childrens pants down and "pinched" them. (a boy & a girl) Once again, we explained that it is wrong, your body is your body and you do not share nor touch other people. We also grounded him. He watches a movie before bed every night and he lost that privledge for 3 nights, couldn't play with the neighbor's for a week and also lost his BB gun(which he loves) for two weeks. We also made him apologixe to the children and our daycare provider. We thought that would be the end of it. NOPE. Next we caught him playing "DR" with our 3 year old daughter. (he had her pants down) We chewed him up and down. Once again, we talked to him trying to find out why this is happening and we didn't get anywhere. We did find out that the 10 year old boy just this summer "put rocks in my pants & then got them back out." We told him we were very sorry that we weren't there for him and that we didn't know this was going on. He has been very upset everytime something has happened. He cries hysteracally (not sure if he is upset because of situation or because he got caught). We did not punish him this time thinking that maybe there was more involved than we know. Next situation was on the school bus with 4 other little boys all "hitting" each other in the privates. The little neighbor boy was also involved in this incident. (needless to say, his parents are getting very concerned about letting him play with our son-rightfully so) We once again talked about told him he KNOWS it is wrong and we expect it to stop. This instance, also under different circumstances could have been just "boy behavior". I know they play rough and think some of this stuff is funny. Well, the newest one is that our son supposedly was "pushing down" on the neighbor boy's privates on the bus once again. The boy said he was "holding him down on his pee pee". We once again questioned our son, he said he "knew it was wrong and tried not to do those things, but it just happens" (his words). He was crying so hard I thought he was going to throw up. We told him he will no longer play with the neighbor boy and that he could not sit with him on the bus anymore. I sent a note to the bus driver and talked to the neghbor's parents and told them that was where we stand.
I know there is something going on here. DUH! I just don't know what to do. DH thinks that us telling him over and over again that it is wrong and he should "get it through his head." I have always been the disciplinarian in our family and I feel that there is more to it than we know. (mommy's intuition?) I have checked into counseling and it is very expensive! There is no way we can afford it. I have talked to the school counseler and she was going to try to make some connections in hopes to get him some help. I don't know if he needs that or if I am overanalizing. I too think that if it was just a stubborn issue that punishment and discipline would be the answer but I can't help thinking there is more to it than that.
I would really appreciate other mom's opinions on this matter. Both how much is normal and whether it is more involved than just being stubborn.
To a certin degree it is normal for children that age to be curious. I do believe that your son is stepping outside what would be considered normal. I would suggest you taking him to see his doctor to see if his doctor knows of any low/no cost counciling for him. I would also bring it up other times when he's not getting into trouble to see if something did happen that you don't know about. It seems as though your son suffered at the hands of the 7 year old. I don't know if it is something that can be punished away....i would really look into counsilling for him, do your best to find something you can afford.
bigty98, I am so sorry that your son is going through this. I know it is heartbreaking. I agree that counseling is needed. This behavior seems to have started after the incidents with the older boy. What happened was inappropriate and I am sure very confusing to your son. He is probably acting out in a behavior similar to what happened to him. Also, since your son was with this boy on many other occasions, there may have been many more incidents that you do not know about. I think all contact with this boy should cease and his parents need to be aware what is going on. This boy needs counseling also. If this is not addressed with both children, it will get worse.
See what leads you can get from the school on affordable counseling. Also try contacting your local mental health agency for advice. Let them know the seriousness of the situation, and see if they can recommend someone. The sooner he can get into counseling, the sooner he can heal. My heart goes out to you.
Thanks for your replies guys. Tylor does not see the 10 year old anymore except briefly in school at times. As for the little boy that Tylor seems to be doing it to-we have made it so they can't sit together on the bus anymore and they can't play at each other's houses any longer. I am hoping that this will help. The school counselor called me with a name so I will have to check it out tomorrow. I too think that is what he needs. I think it may be an emotional thing too. As for the 10 year old, my main concern is if he is doing it to anyone else at that day care. If I find out that more happened to Tylor than we were aware, I may consider calling someone about the day care too. We will just have to wait and see. I can't imagine if it was just a stubborn issue with Tylor that he wouldn't be stopping it by now. That is why I think it is something emotional.
Thansk again. It is nice to talk to someone whom you don't know about it. It is amazing how something like this makes you feel as a parent. Not just the fact that it has happened to my child, but that now he is doing it. You start feeling like a bad parent. Like you did something wrong. Not to mention the embarressment of it all.
Hi bigty98. I am so glad you are going to call the counselor. I really hope your son will be able to see one. You are right that this is not an issue about being stubborn. It is much deeper. Things have happened that he cannot or should not have to try to understand. I believe Tylor is only acting out what he has experienced. I believe that he needs to work through it with someone or the behavior will probably continue or come out in other ways.
It has nothing to do with your parenting ability. You are a wonderful parent because you are concerned and are getting him the help he needs. Parents cannot be with their children 24 hours a day every day of the week.
I recommend considering that the parents of all the other children involved be contacted so they can all get the help they need. It may be a good idea to talk to the counselor about this and also about whether you should take measures so your son does not see the older boy. I agree that it is very likely the older boy is continuing the abuse with other children, and it could be because he is being abused himself. Measures need to be taken so no one is hurt further and so no other child will go through this. It is all very sad, but I believe everyone can heal with the proper help.
Ticker-Thanks so much for your encouragment. It is nice to have an outsider's opinion of the situation. I have been feeling really bad about the whole thing. I cry really easy when addressing it or discussing it with DH. It has been on my mind continuously. Hopefully we can get him some help. I just have a feeling we won't be able to. It is funny, these "counselor's" are supposedly here to help but they are so expensive that the average person can't afford it. Lots of places I've talked to have "slider programs" for lo-income but we make way too much money. The problem is we also have way too many bills! I know that we can't afford 110.00 a session every week or even every other week. It is really sad. I guess we will just have to see what happens. Hopefully, it won't happen anymore and we can get someone for Tylor to talk to. It breaks my heart to think what may have been going on for two years. I know that there wasn't anything sexual or intrusive physically. I am pretty sure Tylor would tell us that. I have a feeling it was alot of "touching". Anyway, thanks again for your support. I really appreciate it.
Wow I am so sorry for what is happening. I would think it may be slightly normal if your son was 3 or something but at 6 years old this is definately NOT NORMAL. Punishing won't make this go away as others have said. it seems like this 7 year old caused some real damage while your son was in daycare. Has this other boy's parents done anything about this behavior. I hope he stops or more kids could be affected the way your son has been! ONe thing for sure is your going to HAVE to find a way to get him some counseling. If that means cutting back on expenses or tightening your budget or whatever.. This is very important. I agree counseling is too expensive but I think you guys can hopefuly find a way. This would worry me too don't feel guilty though cause you had no way of knowing this would happen!
Bigty98, you sound like you're doing all you can to prevent this. Since your constant reprimanding isn't working I think it is necessary to seek counseling. Insurance usually covers some form of counseling.
I think that your son probably feels like the victim. He knew that the 10 year old boy was doing something he shouldn't have and that's why he told you about it. Now he's probably turning into the aggressor to other kids because he doesn't want to feel like the victim anymore. I feel bad for him because he's so young that he can't pinpoint why he's doing it! It must be difficult for him to comprehend why this is wrong and why he can't control himself. Best of luck!
I really feel so very badly for you and your son and what you are trying to deal with here,i know it is not easy.It sounds like you are doing everything you possibly can to find help for your son.Have you called the county sexual assault services in your area to discuss this with an advocate?If not, you really do need to as they can be invaluable to you right now.I worked for our county SAS as a crisis counselor and advocate for many years and they probably helped thousands of parents and children that were in your same situation to find them the help they needed.please look in the front cover of your phone book where they usually put any community help services or crisis services there should be something there that pertains to what you need.The advocates will help you deal with the emotional side as well as offer some suggestions and referrals for counseling services.Most are on a sliding scale.The SAS may offer their own counseling sessions(usually group) for free as well.I know we did.I really think you need to report this daycare to the proper authorities as the child that is still living there is a predator.God only knows just how many other children there were molested by this kid at some point?Has the mother of this child bothered to provide some sort of counciling for him?i feel very strongly that at some point that child was molested by someone,how badly is anyones guess,but he must of had this happen at some point in his past(or maybe ongoing?).Who knows just what has gone on and is currently going on in that house.This women needs to have her daycare license taken away for good.This is a very dangerous place for any child to be in.Have you reported the abuse of your son to the authorities?your son should not have to deal with all of this crap,i really do feel for him and for you.but you need to make sure that this child does not do this to anymore children.you are doing the right thing here and you ARE a very good mother.i hope this helped you some.please keep us posted,K?Hang in there mom.Marcia
A better way to communicate to your son that what he is doing is inappropriate - is to tell him exactly how you expect him to behave. Enforce the "personal space" rule so that he knows touching of any kind is not right. As far as why he's behaving this way, I would say it is definitely a sign that the babysitter's son was doing more than your son has let on. I know when my son is truly embarassed by something, he will not tell me what happened no matter how many different ways I try to get him to feel comfortable. This only happened a few times, recently when he went to a school dance and came out looking angry and quiet. When anyone asked if he had a good time he said yes. When I asked why he was angry he told me to 'never mind.' I think it had to do something to do with his girlfriend. So, he may not tell you but he may tell a counselor. That is why it's important for him to talk to someone who is familiar with this type of situation. I would also tell your old babyshitter that she needs to get help for her son. Good luck and God bless.
If you open the door even a little bit - the devil will fling it open. Keep it closed with prayer.
My heart goes out to you as well...
These are VERY SERIOUS issues~
I understand you cant afford 110.00 bucks a week for counseling..I hope you have found something by now~
This is not gonna just go away all by itself~
Whether or not penetration occured is irrelavant~"
I feel from what you posted ..That your son has been molested...It has the same affect on the mind/ spirit as being raped..The same problems afterwards!!
The acting out WILL NOT JUST STOP EVER!!!!Unless you get him help~
You could go to the library and find some books with info you could make age appropriate and help him yourself~
Please dont let this go under the rug for much longer..He iof he hasnt already is gonna start to feel like "there is something wrong with him"
Be cause HE WONT JUST BE ABLE TO STOP~No punishment in the world will stop him..Without any help he is headed for a downward spiral..even if he does "appear to have quit"..he will always have those feelings of guilt and thoughts in his head~~Please read some books and i hope by now you have made some calls...Your baby needs some help!!!
I also strongly suggest if you havent already..REPORTING THIS BOY THAT STARTED ALL THIS!!!The daycare as well.How many other kids have had things happen..Because they werent being surpervised properly??
There is obviously some abuse going on there as well with him~~
In reporting it you could possibly be helping him get out of a bad situation..kids arent born bad..They usually act out like this when something they cant deal with is going on in their minds~
I hope you reply back and let us know what is going on~
Also you said you had a daughter thats younger than him...Well if things dont get taken care ..you could be eventually taking 2 kids to therapy for issues that arose from all this...I am not trying to be mean here...Its just that this hits me right in my heart to read about this stuff~
He wont be able to stop on his own~~All he is gonna do is learn how not to get caught!!!Then he is gonna feel terrible about himself~~
I went for years w/out counseling after i was molested and i know the harm you do to yourself mentally at first then as you get older physically ..you have no self worth~~So you dont care what hapens to you and you have no clue how to stop "feeling bad"..You might think i am going overboard but this is the truth and factual info if you were to read up...A very high percentage of people that were molested/raped/or abused...Without proper intervention for help..Eventually the chances of them turning to drugs/alcohol to escape is VERY HIGH!!!
Hope to hear from you soon~
Last edited by whatamess@35; 11-26-2004 at 10:42 AM.
Whata,i am so sorry you had to go through all of that.and you are NOT going overboard here trust me.She needs to know what could be in store for her and her children if this is not taken care of properly.it is a very scarey situation for her and her children to be in,but it needs to be helped now,no matter what.
How are YOU doing now considering what you have been through and are still dealing with?Take care,Marcia
We have not gotten Tylor into counseling. We have made several calls and that always leads to dead ends. I spoke to the school counselor and followed up on the leads she gave me which ended up with the same problem. It is just too expensive for us to be able to do this right now. I don't think you are "overreacting" but I do think that you are being somewhat unrealistic in the "help" aspect. Without knowing our financial situation you can't say whether or not we should do the counseling. There is no way we could afford it at this time. Everyone keeps saying that there has to be something...well everyone I have talked to have a base price or they charge by your income level. Our income is quite high but we have alot of bills. There is no financial help for our "bracket" as they call it.
At this point, Tylor has been doing well. We haven't had anymore incidents. We have taken measures on a personal level in hopes to take care of the situation and so far, it has worked. We decided to approach it this way for now and if anything else arrises then we will have to see what other options we can try.
As far as the previous daycare, I haven't even spoken to her since I pulled the kids out. No one knows exactly what went on between Tylor and that boy except the two of them. I can guarantee that boy wouldn't own up to it anyway.
I do feel that you are being a little unfair and I almost feel personally attacked but I realize that everyone has their opinions and I did ask for advice. I do appreciate all your advice and I just wanted to update my post with where we stand at this time.
i think all the young lads need to go to counselling!, where did the older boy who initiated it, learn it in the first place?, the older one may be going through sexual abuse. i think councelling all round is what is needed.This is not right or normal and alarm bells should be ringing.
a word of advice for all parents is you have to tell your children for there own safety if anyone touches you on your privates come tell mummy and daddy even if bad person says bad things to you or says not to tell us and not to tell bad person your telling mummy and daddy, mummy and daddy won't be mad at you and we will keep you safe and if it is a friend of the child explain Why they can't see their friend anymore e.t.c.