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Old 05-24-2005, 09:29 AM   #1
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Bothrops HB User
Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

Hey everyone,
Most of you already no my story, for those who donít I have been sick for two years with CFIDS/fibro and I have spent the last two years trying to figure out what caused it. I feel like I need to know what went wrong so I can change and lesson my chances of relapse when I do become better. I went to a CFIDS seminar hosted by DR. Charles Lapp. I noticed that I was one of three men there, the majority was women. The majority of the women were over weight. I am a 5í9Ē male that weighs 172 pds. I just donít seem to fit the mold. I do realize it can happen to anyone, and the woman may have become over weight since there illness started. Being that I donít fit the mold, if there is one, I feel that maybe one of my many habits could be the blame.
If I were to go back in time to when it seemed that my health took a wrong turn it would be the year 1991. This was the year I started dating my wife and became sexually active on a daily basis. It was also the year I got a real bad flu and had enlarged lymph nodes in groin area. I have read that 1 out of every 300 people with CFIDS respond to removal of mercury filling and one out of every 200 respond to treatment for yeast. Is it possible that yeast is my problem and how would I get it?
I donít like telling anyone about my private life but since no one here can see me or knows me personally I have no problem. Lets say I have oral sex with my wife once every two to three days for ten to twenty minutes since I have known her, 14 years! Lets say that even though my wife is very clean down there she has never used any sort of feminine hygiene products. Would this increase my chances of having a problem with yeast? I donít know anyoneís personal life, this may be a common habit for every married couple, I have no idea. I know that antibiotics will cause problem and I was given a couple injections of rocephin and oral antibiotics when lymph nodes came up in 91. I should also mention that since I have known my wife my stress level has been way up because I had to start a career and move out from parents. I do believe every one goes through this type of stress at that period in there life.
Does anyone think that this could be a problem or is Crookís yeast connection truly bogus? I am defiantly a man of science and have a hard time believing it but before I met my wife I was sick maybe once every four years, after meeting her I was sick four to five times a year, and disabled the last two! The first thing that seemed to be affected was my skin and nails, leg pain and a lot of sore throats in tonsil adenoid area. If anyone thinks this could be a problem how do I explain such a crazy possibility to my Dr. who by the way is an attractive woman, how embarrassing. I already asked my Dr. about yeast and she said there is no way to check it in men and gave me 3 diflucans to take. I heard this med. Is very bad for you so I have not taken them, should I? I have thought all of this since the beginning I just donít like blaming it on my wife but I have exhausted all other possibilities. I truly believe that we all got CFIDS/Fibro from something, bad habit, accident, something. It just does not appear for no reason nor is it just bad luck. I also think you can get this for a lot of different reasons with the same outcome, all the planets have to line up.

Please let me know what you all think so I donít make a fool out of myself, like I have done so much in the last two years.

Derek

Last edited by Bothrops; 05-24-2005 at 09:32 AM.

 
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Old 05-24-2005, 04:07 PM   #2
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Re: Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

I'm gonna give you my honest and sincere opinion about your concerns regarding mercury filling poisoning and chronic systemic yeast/candida infections. There is absolutely no scientific evidence to prove that either of these conditions actually exist let alone cause or contribute to CFS/Fibro. Unfortunately, these fake diagnoses are based on pseudoscience created by greedy and immoral practioners designed for one purpose only...to take advantage of sick people by promising cures to those that feel helpless and hopeless. I would seriously advise you to stay away from ANYONE who claims that your problems fall into either of these two categories or any of the supposed treatments for them. The very fact that you mention only 1 out of 200 or 300 people will feel better by following these dubious protocols proves my point even further...obviously these people either experienced a placebo effect or they would have gotten better on their own anyway. If a drug company went to the FDA with those kind of statistics, they would be laughed out of the room...as a matter of fact, the placebo effect alone could show better results than that!

Last edited by CFD 333; 05-25-2005 at 09:10 AM.

 
Old 05-25-2005, 12:46 PM   #3
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Re: Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

Lamotta,

Where do you get your facts? Yeast is a problem for many people. I know for a fact that people who go on yeast free diets clear up there symptoms.Including depression and anxiety..Just ask Kittylove! If you look for a quick fix, you'll never heal. People don't really understand what causes illness...Mental/emotional stress, poor diet, environmental stresses. We don't just get sick for no reason.. There is always a cause. The only thing we can do is especially if you have CFS/Fibro/Me is go back to an earth diet...Meat, low glycemic vegetables, nuts, seeds,fruits, and certain grains(no gluten). We're all sugar-holics. Docs want to treat with chemicals that further drives illness deeper within the tissues causing long-term damage..As far as mercury goes, show me documentation that states it's safe..It's our most toxic metal were inhaling it everyday..Mercury safe???I'm not buying it..

 
Old 05-25-2005, 01:44 PM   #4
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Re: Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

I am one of those patients who has recovered quite well after yeast free/sugar free diet and antifungal therapy after trying absolutely everything else to heal.

Chronic sinusitis ....gone
IBS....much improved
PMS...almost non existant
Energy level...through the roof
Chemical sensitivities ....not noticeable
Quality of life... great, 6 months ago I wanted to die.

Would I have gotten better anyway? Don't think so, the same thing happened to me in 1988 and I almost died from reactions to antibiotics given to me for months on the insistance it was all "bacterial". I had to find my own treatment.

I recovered quickly with the yeast program that time and stayed well until the old mercury fillings started cracking and old molars breaking. I needed root canal surgery and antibiotics three times in the last five years. Little by little all the strange symptoms I had in 1988 reappeared until I couldn't work, eat , sleep, breathe or move well;overwhelming joint pain, fatigue and nasal swelling to obstruction. All labwork done was negative. On paper I was the picture of health.

I was sent to a rheumatologist, allergist and othopedic doc.
DX: fibromyalgia, mild rhinitis???(couldn't breathe through nose at all), mild osteoarthritis. Allergic to ASA and NSAIDS so little being offered for treatment .

I started the yeast diet again, got to 80% improvement within weeks, this time didn't take any of the antibiotics or steroid sprays that were prescribed.
Obtained an oral antifungal and even my doubting primary doc was amazed at the immediate clearing of symptoms. I also work at the doc's office so he sees me every day.

Is this the answer for everyone? Of course not, but I won't stand for anyone telling me yeast overgrowth doesn't have any effect on health, having gone through it twice now in almost 20 years, both times able to relate it to use of antibiotics.
I am a firm believer. I have worked in healthcare for over 32 years. No one has all the answers. If they think they do they don't belong in the healthcare profession.

 
Old 05-25-2005, 02:24 PM   #5
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Re: Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

Simply put....Mercury can be toxic however "silver" fillings (that's right, they are primarily made of silver but contain small amounts of mercury and other metals that are chemically bonded together) are not toxic and don't nearly contain enough of any of the metals to cause toxicity...

The so-called "yeast diets" are not correcting a systemic yeast infection...they are forcing you to limit high glycemic carbohydrates and simple sugars. Its common knowledge that a clean diet filled with complex carbs, protein, and unsaturated fats will make you feel better...its a no-brainer.

Silver fillings and sugar are not poisons...if they were, the entire Earth's populations would be seriously ill or dead.

 
Old 05-26-2005, 06:27 AM   #6
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Re: Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

Well, people who have a yeast overgrowth, sugar certainly feels like poison to them..I know from experiece, if i eat starchy or sugary food, I suffer very quickly...Too much sugar in the diet causes diabetes and hypoglycemia among other things. Just look at the food pyramid. 6-11 servings of bread, pasta, etc...Come on..To achieve optimal health, the diet should be as follows. Lots of low glycemic veggies, some protein(meat the size of your palm) some fats(nuts and seeds), oils(2:1 ratio of omega6 to omega 3) and couple servings of fruit..I Standard American Diet is making people very ill, not all, but even the ones who follow it aren't feeling optimally healthy...Find the book "the diet cure"..It has great info...

 
Old 05-26-2005, 08:37 AM   #7
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Re: Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

To much of anything is bad for you...everything in moderation.

 
Old 05-27-2005, 06:58 AM   #8
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Bothrops HB User
Re: Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

You have all given some good opinions but no one has answered my question.
My problems started after I met my wife and became sexually active on a daily basis. Do any of you think this could be a possibility. Is it possible that I had never been exposed to EBV, CMV or HHV-6 until I met my wife and it just kicked my butt. I know yeast is a problem for me because my Dr has noted thrush before. I have noticed a reduction in left kidney pain, urination and green bowels when I take acidophilus. As for the mercury fillings I was just using that as an example.

Lamotta, Did you say you tested + to a tick illness? I saw my Dr. 2 days ago and she told me that I tested positive to babasia, 1:80 anything over 1:20 is positive. I also tested + to HHV-6. She wants me to start with oral abx. So my poitives are as follows;

EBV
CMV
HHV-6
ANA
Babasia
Chroic sinusitus

when my appt. was over I figured since I was only 30 min. away from the Carolina Sandhills NWR I would stop by, take a walk and see what I could see.
This morning I dicovered a deer tick on me. What kind of fool would leave a lyme Dr. and hid straight for tick country.

Derek

 
Old 05-27-2005, 09:10 AM   #9
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Re: Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

Bothrops, your problems could result from any one of those infections or possibly the combination of all of them. You have to remember that very high percentages of the population have been exposed to EBV, CMV, and HHV-6 sometime in their life...they are everywhere. Who can say if your wife gave them to you or not? You did test positive to Babesia so you probably got that infection from a tick bite. Honestly, when it comes to an illness like yours, the only way to know whats causing your problems and what isn't would be to treat for the infections that are treatable and see what happens. If the treatments don't help you feel any better then you will have to look elsewhere. I hope they work for you and solve all your problems.

 
Old 05-27-2005, 01:56 PM   #10
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Re: Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

>The so-called "yeast diets" are not correcting a systemic yeast >infection...they are forcing you to limit high glycemic >carbohydrates and simple sugars. Its common knowledge that a >clean diet filled with complex carbs, protein, and unsaturated >fats will make you feel better...its a no-brainer.

I felt fine on a regular diet eating moderate amounts of white flour and sugars for 15 years between episodes.
And until you experience the "die-off" reaction that occurs when you do start killing off the yeasts you'll never be convinced such a thing could happen. I am tired of people being so judgmental about other peoples conditions.

I watched a young man die many years ago from an overwhelming Candida infection because all the docs refused to believe he could have such a thing. They insisted it was a bacterial infection and kept pumping him with stronger and stronger IV antibiotics and he kept getting sicker until they saw "spots" in his lungs, did a bronch and culture and biopsy and found it to be yeast.
He was a healthy normal 21 year old, not HIV positive and he died a horrible death in ICU on a respirator.

 
Old 05-27-2005, 03:02 PM   #11
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Re: Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

Quote:
Originally Posted by rck213
>The so-called "yeast diets" are not correcting a systemic yeast >infection...they are forcing you to limit high glycemic >carbohydrates and simple sugars. Its common knowledge that a >clean diet filled with complex carbs, protein, and unsaturated >fats will make you feel better...its a no-brainer.

I felt fine on a regular diet eating moderate amounts of white flour and sugars for 15 years between episodes.
And until you experience the "die-off" reaction that occurs when you do start killing off the yeasts you'll never be convinced such a thing could happen. I am tired of people being so judgmental about other peoples conditions.

I watched a young man die many years ago from an overwhelming Candida infection because all the docs refused to believe he could have such a thing. They insisted it was a bacterial infection and kept pumping him with stronger and stronger IV antibiotics and he kept getting sicker until they saw "spots" in his lungs, did a bronch and culture and biopsy and found it to be yeast.
He was a healthy normal 21 year old, not HIV positive and he died a horrible death in ICU on a respirator.
YA! This is what worries me. Testing positive to babesia means lots of strong antibiotics. The test was done by Igenex and it states at the bottom that it has not been approved by the FDA, I guess this does not mean much considering what they do aprove. It still worries me , I guess all I can do is double up on the acidophillus and hope for the best

 
Old 05-30-2005, 02:53 PM   #12
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Re: Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

While taking the antibiotics it can't hurt to eat and live as cleanly as possible,drink lots of pure water,get plenty of sleep, reduce stress and monitor your symptoms.

The yeast free/sugar free diet won't hurt anyone. Macrobiotics is even better but not as easy to do.
It is all about immune system balance and allowing the body to heal. Antibiotics are necessary sometimes, but you need to do all you can to support healing too.

We are all exposed to many bacteria and viruses but everyone doesn't get chronically ill from them.If someone could figure out why that is I would be one happy camper.

Good Luck

 
Old 05-31-2005, 09:50 AM   #13
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Re: Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

Quote:
Originally Posted by rck213
While taking the antibiotics it can't hurt to eat and live as cleanly as possible,drink lots of pure water,get plenty of sleep, reduce stress and monitor your symptoms.

The yeast free/sugar free diet won't hurt anyone. Macrobiotics is even better but not as easy to do. It is all about immune system balance and allowing the body to heal. Antibiotics are necessary sometimes, but you need to do all you can to support healing too.

We are all exposed to many bacteria and viruses but everyone doesn't get chronically ill from them.If someone could figure out why that is I would be one happy camper.

Good Luck
All I was saying is that the supposed "yeast diet" doesn't cure a yeast infection...it just isn't that simple. The diet forces you to eat more complex carbs and less simple sugars. The theory was that since yeast feeds on sugar, then eliminating sugar from our diets will cure it. The fatal flaw with this theory is that our bodies absolutely NEED simple sugars in the form of glucose to function...if it isn't getting it from the diet, it will make some on its own. Your blood will ALWAYS have sugar in it no matter what...if it didn't, you would fall into a coma and maybe die unless you got immediate medical attention, similar to what happens to diabetics when they overdue their medications or insulin shots and don't eat enough to compensate for it. Blood sugar levels MUST stay within normal limits in order for us to feel well and be healthy...too low and you are hypoglycemic, too high and you are diabetic.

I'll tell you what the yeast diet does do...it causes you to break out of the erradict up and down blood sugar patterns that many people experience everday. There is a strong mental/psychological link between what you eat and your mood. When you are used to eating a certain amount of simple sugars, carbs, and calories in a day and then cut them out or seriously lower them, you are going to feel terrible for a while! This isn't a die-off effect, but rather more like a withdrawal effect...it takes time for your body and mind to readjust to the change in diet...you will experience extreme cravings and feel really run down and irritable. This is completely normal and even healthly individuals will go through this. In fact, its what makes dieting as hard as it is.

The American diet is filled with too many extremes...high processed sugars and high saturated fats. We should avoid these extremes in our diets or extremely limit them as much as possible if we can. Keep the range between complex carbs and unsaturated fats like the Europeans do...they have a very good diet. If you look at them as a whole, they have MUCH less obesity and heart disease...simply because they eat better than we do and they know how to enjoy themselves. There lifestyles allow for better eating and more relaxation. For example, my relatives in Italy don't eat almost ANY junk or fast foods at all. Their diet consists of lots of tomatoes and vegetables mixed in salads, pastas, olive oil, fish, lean cuts of steak or chicken, lots of water, and the occasional glass of red wine with dinner. You know what they eat for dessert most of the time? A peach or some grapes! That's it! This is a very typical diet in Italy...the last time I was there, I was STUNNED at how few overweight people there are. Everybody looked thin, happy, and healthy all the time...what a life! Some of my relatives came over from Italy last year for a vacation and they often remarked how overweight and out of shape so many Americans look...they were baffled by this. But I told them that, "In Italy, you don't have a McDonald's around every corner like we do here..." They still didn't get it, but I wouldn't expect them to.

You are correct in stating that we are all exposed to bacteria and viruses in our lives...most of these are easily handled by the immune system and you recover from them quickly. There are individuals that once exposed to certain things they become chronically ill and the current medical research points to immune system abnormalities on a genetic level. The exact mechanism of how this could happen to someone is still being researched but researchers have discovered that the genes of a normal healthy individual and one who is sick with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome will show slight variations in the genes involving the immune system. The key for the future is to use or develop medications that can correct these genetic abnormalities. It looks like a researcher by the name of Dr. John Gow of the University of Glasgow, Scotland, has developed a three drug cocktail and will be experimenting with it in the near future. He even went as far as to claim that a cure and a diagnostic testing kit could be available in as little as a year from now if his funding holds up. I personally can't wait to see how this pans out.

Last edited by CFD 333; 05-31-2005 at 09:58 AM.

 
Old 06-01-2005, 02:40 PM   #14
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Re: Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

"There is a strong mental/psychological link between what you eat and your mood. When you are used to eating a certain amount of simple sugars, carbs, and calories in a day and then cut them out or seriously lower them, you are going to feel terrible for a while! This isn'ta die-off effect, but rather more like a withdrawal effect...it takes time for your body and mind to readjust to the change in diet...you will experience extreme cravings and feel really run down and irritable. This is completely normal and even healthly individuals will go through this. In fact, its what makes dieting as hard as it is. "

I have experienced "withdrawl" symptoms of dieting which are annoying vs the die off symptoms of yeast which make you want to die. Skin burning, numbness of extremities, total confusion to where I couldn't concentrate at all or make any sense, headaches unlike any other ever experienced, extreme chemical smell sensitivities yet totally unable to smell or taste food at all. I accused my husband of secretly poisoning me as that is what it felt like!!

Intestinal bloating, flatus, severe muscle and joint aches all only for about a week then leveling off. Dare to try any sugar or fruit even once and have it start all over again. Dieting has never kept me away from work, killing off yeast has.

Yes the body attempts to keep blood glucose at a normal level at all times, but some of us overreact to the sugar that is injested, pump out too much insulin etc, then there is insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome or syndrome X or whatever they are calling it today... all these things being found to contribute to disease processes in the body. Add Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome and there is one big hormonal mess of which no doctor has been able to offer me any way to manage successfully.

Doing a simple diet along with antifungals got me out of a mess in 1988, I was told I would be on steroids for the rest of my life due to severe allergic reactions and angioedema after multiple courses of antibiotics for a "sinus infection". Didn't happen, I stayed off all meds and stayed pretty healthy and very active until the past two years when we stirred things up with antibiotics again and I had let my guard down, eating a good but not great diet and ignoring minor symptoms which then became major.

The same treatment got me out of one big mess again where no doctor could help me, I am able to live a normal life again on no medications, where is the problem in that?

I hope someone does find out why some peoples immune systems are out of whack. My daughter already has develped allergies to several medications and has had multiple problems with vaginal candidiasis being resistant to treatment.
My mother died from a sulfa drug reaction. I cannot take many medications without having an allergic reaction or developing a sensitivity to the drug or a component of it.
Can't help but think some of this is genetic.

 
Old 06-07-2005, 10:56 AM   #15
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Re: Can yeast really cause CFIDS/Fibro

rck213,

You mention that this yeast plan helped your chemical sensitivities. How long did the diet take until you noticed results? I appreciate any feedback as I have suffered over the last 4 years after taking some antibiotics.

Thanks.

 
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