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Old 06-03-2010, 09:54 PM   #1
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titanium staples

has anyone experienced problems years after having surgery where titanium staples were used. I had hernia repair 12 years ago and have had stomach and back and neck problems for years. on a recent ct, I noticed that some of the staples from my inguinal hernia repair were now located near my spine. I wonder if this is causing the numbness, and pain. Anyone know??

 
Old 06-04-2010, 09:22 AM   #2
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Re: titanium staples

did ANYONE actually ever explain to you just WHY they actually used staples on the INSIDE of your body instead of the more standard practice of things like mesh and dissovable sutures?? this just seems kind of really odd to keep inside someones body after doing any type of actual abdominal repair type of surgery? the biggest issue with doing this with something as small as an actual staple would be, would be what the bodies natural response would be in simply trying to expel something that small as a 'foriegn object"? or even having an infection start brewing up surrounding it or under it as in how the body sees this and creates an infection as one way of trying to kind of 'push it out' of the body? i am just really wondering about the "whys" here in why the surgeon even did your surgical repair this way at all kinda thing? this just really does not sound at all like what the standard pratice for inside closure just would be, to me anyways.

so these things are actually like 'loose/expelled" now and migrating around in that surgical area? just what are your exacting symptoms that you are having? where are the staples you are seeing(was this upon an x ray or what?) actually located per the spinal levels? anything below them could possibly be impacted depending upon just where they are and if they are directly impacting a spinal nerve in some way? but the upper, above the staples really should not be the issue here, ya know what i mean? the nerves tend to run downwards in signals and not upwards? that actually does not really occur til you get into the spinal cord and the spinal tracts that run thru it. but you very easily could have something else also impacting your spinal esp up in that c spine level.

simply getting a good contrasted MRI of your whole spinal wouldn't hurt just to see every single level and what just could be going on pretty much in anyones spinal, and age IS also a factor too since the spine does get alot of wear and tear over more years. but knowing just what your actual symptoms are would help alot in trying to actually narrow down certain spinal levels. and i would actually see that surgeon again if he is still around or have your primary send you to another just to get his or her actual opinion on what is going on with the staples in there? that just, for soo many reasons does not sound "right" at all to use when other things are just safer and better? its simply what occurs and what i explained above that just makes that a not so good idea to simply even go there with staples. i know many many people who have had abdominal surgery and never ever have heard of the staples being used for inside closure ever, only outside? marcia
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9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:25 PM   #3
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Re: titanium staples

Just wanted to add a little bit about using staples in hernia repairs. For the last few years, most hernia repairs have been done through laparoscopy and the method is called the "key hole" method. The sole advantage of this technique is that only the smallest of incisions are required. In order that the surgeon may manoeuvre inside the patient and see what he is doing, the patient's abdomen has to be pumped up with compressed carbon dioxide gas. The repair is achieved by firing a staple gun through mesh into the muscle tissue. A significant school of thought exists that does not favour this technique. Now procedures are being utilized that require no stitching or stapleing of the muscle tissue at all, even when mesh is being used. The british hernia center has some good information on the latest techniques being used in hernia repair.

As far as the staples migrating, I suppose that could happen but I can't see how they could get into your spine. I have always wondered how people who have had major abdominal surgery were able to safetly have MRI's done when staples such as hemoclips are used on major vessels deep in the body. I can just imagine the magnets pulling hemoclips off of arteries.
Kinda scary when you think about it.

I do know that titanium clips and hardware are used frequently in the body during surgery because the body does not reject it readily. They have even been used in the brain. It's been a while since I read up on current surgical techniques. But it is common to use staples in hernia repair or at least it used to be. Things are always changing.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Good luck

Bullymom

 
Old 06-06-2010, 07:22 AM   #4
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Re: titanium staples

wow and thanks for all that info bully, that just really seems like its almost an 'asking for trouble" type of issue in just having that small fragment of metal directed into a muscle like that at all? just based upon the "expelling" thing the body usually does over time? i am wondering if this is not the issue here with hks right now? expelling and then migration? i do know they use alot of titainium in the body but usually when its done it is attached to bone and for some insane reason, that does not really cause issues like it does when small fragmants are into an actual muscle, organ or even skin? my son has the surgical clips in his abdomen from his liver transplant(along with a TON of major stapling on the outside) and they ARE okay to have MRIs with(at least i know HIS are. NOW). trust me, we made DARN certain of that a few years ago when he suffered a brain injury and needed to have an MRI done. i did kind of freak since that was the very first time he ever needed MRI post Tx at all and we just did not have a freaking clue what the darn clips were even made out of then(took alot of phone calls in a hurry to find out)? it was fine, thank god. but the thing about any clips is they are actually 'slid' over a vessel and not 'into' them? ya know what i mean? i also have a brain aneurysm that the clipping was brought up and excluded right away for since it was way too deep within the brain to go that route(thank god, did not want the craniotomy at all, lol) but i DO have platnum coils in that artery and no issues but that is 'in' the artery too? i also have titanium in my c spine and titainium anchor pins in my R shoulder from rotator surgery? but once again these are not 'into" a muscle or skin like staples are type thing either?

i just cannot myself imagine that placing a staple into a muscle that the muscle would not try and expel that since anything actually even IN a muscle will usually create some level of real inflammation just even 'being there at all kinda thing? maybe that WAS a problem and thats why they had some problems with this particular surgical practice?

HKS?? i really do feel that you just 'could' be dealing with a possible expelling and migration, but getting to the spine? or depending here, it could just have "appeared" that way on the film as my coils actually "appear' upon plain x rays from the side like an actual earring on only one side? very strange, since this actually DOES look like a "cluster" type of actual earring i mean exactly, just where its located? but its actually sitting right up againt my brainstem very deep into my brain, not outside, but it definitely looks that way? it can be kind of difficult depending upon just what actual pic you were looking at when you saw how this appeared there to really determine "layers" or real location at times looking straight ON a pic? so either this could have appeared this way on that film(the inner slice level pics would more than likely show if this DID actually expel itself or is still anchored where its supposed to be) or expelling just could have occured too. i would think tho if these are actually expelled and migrating that it most certainly would have been noted upon your radiology report when the rad read your films as an incidental finding type thing? or at least your doc when he read the films would have noticed it right away there?

but i most certainly would obtain a good contrasted MRI on your spinal just to really 'see' what could be creating your ongoing symptoms tho. something else just could be going on there in anyones spinal when you are having neck and back pain. and if somehow these staples actually DID come loose, i am not too certain but would check with your surgeon or a new surgeon or your primary perhaps to just see if this would need to come out if they did expel? you just kind of need to know that. please let us know how your doing? marcia
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3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 06-06-2010, 05:04 PM   #5
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Re: titanium staples

Titanium is non reactive, hence the body doesnt try and expel it.

Re the no staple hernia repair aproaach, apparently that is the standard of care in Australia these days, the old aproach of stitching or stapeling the mesh to the muscle is regarded as rather out of date.

If titanium clips have migrated to your sppine (not sure how that could happen?) I am suprised the radiologist didnt mention it on his report - it might be best to ask the radiologist who read your CT to clarify what you're seeing on the films, and their significance

 
Old 06-06-2010, 08:18 PM   #6
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Re: titanium staples

If the stapled has wandered then I would wonder if it could be causing symptoms in the area it which it now sits. You'd have to get some more testing to show if it is truly near the spine. Sometimes test pictures make it seem as if something is in an area that it is not (for example, an xray from the front may show it close to the spine but an x-ray from the side may show that it's not near the spine). I have one staple inside from my gallbladder removal in 1999. I've had a few MRI it has remained in the place in which it was put by the surgeons, but I make sure of that every time I get a test.a
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:19 AM   #7
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Re: titanium staples

OMG, Marcia, you have certainly had your share of major surgerys, and then to have to deal with your child having such a major ilness and surgery. I can't imagine how you could go through all of that without loosing your mind. Bless your heart. I hope things are good for now and I pray you don't have to endure anymore!!

I bet you really love going through the metal detector at the airport!! LOL I guess you would have to take all your films with you when you travel.

Thanks for the post Marcia

Bullymom

 
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