It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Chronic Pain Message Board
Post New Thread   Reply Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-08-2012, 03:50 PM   #1
Junior Member
(female)
 
ammery's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 15
ammery HB User
Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

My back story:
I have suffered from chronic neck pain for approximately 10 years. I have taken many approaches, such as physical therapy, yoga, massage, heat, chiropractic, traction, medications, you name it.. I have never been able to free myself of this burden. My actual diagnosis is chronic myofascial pain, and it's been attributed to postural and muscular issues, but I also have scoliosis.
Over the years it has varied from tolerable (ever present, but something I can live with) to intolerable (can't sleep for nights on end, have to call out of work, sometimes leading to headaches and vomiting). Years went by where I simply attempted to ignore the problem and simply slept with props (a rolled towel under my neck, heating pad, etc) and self-medicated, etc. The bad days have outnumbered the tolerable days however and I have waged a full-scale attack against this issue recently.
I started going to the Mayo Clinic, and I had x-rays done, and eventually was referred to the Pain Management Department and Physical therapy. They have attempted multiple techniques, of which I noticed no improvements, and so currently I am seeing a Pain Management specialist, who actually specializes in TMJ and all pain in the surrounding areas.
My current approach:
The latest approach we have taken is trigger point injections. I had done trigger point injections in the past with Mayo, and those did not change things in the slightest. I think I had more pain afterward actually. Those were simply filled with saline however. This TMJ specialist recommended them again because he said he was highly trained and had large success with them, and he recommended lidocaine. I received over a dozen injections in my neck and lower scalp. I noticed a numb sensation after he was finished, but later that same evening my pain was back, and now it is the next day, and I am having typical neck pain and headache symptoms.
I am very frustrated because every time a new approach doesn't work, I get overwhelmed that this will continue the rest of my life.
Question (finally!):
Does anyone have any experience with lidocaine trigger point injections for neck pain? If I am experiencing pain as usual the next day, should I assume it just didn't work, or is it possible it takes time to sink in? I am crossing my fingers that it takes time, or else I really don't know what my options are at this point.

 
Reply With Quote
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 02-09-2012, 03:32 AM   #2
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 1,409
nochange HB Usernochange HB Usernochange HB Usernochange HB Usernochange HB Usernochange HB Usernochange HB Usernochange HB Usernochange HB Usernochange HB Usernochange HB User
Re: Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

Hello amerybob. Sorry to hear you suffer so much.
There is no treatment for neck pain. I would take any other pain in the body in a second.
Even knee pain is better, leg pain and so on. At least there are not so many nerves there like there are in the neck.
I find it hard to believe you have never had any accident cause you are so young and usually neck pain happen cause of a whiplash(in 50% of the cases) or wear and tear.

Physical therapy is nonsense. I can't believe they even dare sending us to physical therapists eventhough I have never heard about anyone with chronic neck pain with success stories who was going to them.

Many people with neck pain hardly sleep at night. That is not new.
How many hours a night are you able to sleep?

Also, you are only 29 u have been suffering for 10 years. I got that problem since the age of 35(at least I had a LIFE till then) and it never goes away.
and yes, so far doctors don't know how to treat neck pain, and unfortunatelly we all have to DEAL with it. I am thinking how to get rid completelly of this neck pain but it never goes away.

The only thing that works is pain medication. Try Tramadol extended release or oxycontin, percocet, muscle relaxants and so on. I have tried ibuprofen but it did nothing.

It is a nightmare this neck pain. Somebody free us of this turture!

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 07:23 AM   #3
Junior Member
(female)
 
ammery's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 15
ammery HB User
Re: Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

I really appreciate your reply Nochange. I am sorry to hear that physical therapy and other options aren't working for you either.
Yeah, I agree with you that I am very young to be dealing with all of this. You're right, there was no particular accident to attribute the pain.
I was pain free until about 19, and when it hit it hit me hard. I was in so much pain all of the sudden I had to go to the emergency room. I felt this large lump in the back of my neck that felt as hard as bone, and I assumed, at my young age, that it had to be a misplaced vertebrae or something! They x-rayed me at the time and said my cervical spine was fine, it was simply a muscle knot. Well a muscle knots are debilitating, no matter how doctor's try to brush them off.
My latest visit to Mayo the doctor stated that I had forward head posture and that my job in an office setting and my lifestyle as a graduate student is making my daily posture worse. I said, "I have dozens of friends my age who sit hours in front of computers, as office workers, students, musicians, etc, and THEY are not in constant pain! Why is that?!" He just said, "Those are the cards you were dealt."
It's very frustrating to say the least.
My latest tactics are to continue with this pain management doctor and see where it takes, to see an acupuncturist, and to start exercising along with this posture DVD I just purchased in order to correct my "forward head posture".
We'll see what happens.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 09:04 AM   #4
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: East Coast, VA, USA
Posts: 556
Ilovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB User
Re: Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

I don't happen to believe that there is "no treatment" for neck pain...There are dozens and dozens of types of treatment....

The issue is when someone has "chronic" pain....unfortunately it is long term...hence the name....So it's something where you try to find a Dr. who will provide a comprehensive plan to help "lessen" the pain...

Unless someone has an issue that can be fixed....it's about lessening the pain to a tolerable level to live one's life...Many of us here live with pain...I live on the pain scale at a 5-7 depending on the day...It's just part of my life...

I would find a Pain Management Dr. who wants to try and use all available treatments to help. This includes periodic injections, medication, physical therapy, massage, acupuncture, exercise, stretching, TENS unit, changing lifestyle, eliminating foods that cause inflammation, etc.

Those are just some things when done together...each help lower the pain level. Unfortunately with CP...there is not one magic pill or procedure that elimates all the pain.

This is why seeing a therapist/counselor who specializes in chronic pain is very important. They will help with the emotional side to living with pain.

I've had 3 cervical fusions as well as have CMP and a whole host of "diagnosis"....It all equals....pain.....

A lidocaine injection is not meant to be a cure...it's just meant to help when you have a flare...Also, there are Lidoderm and other non narcotic pain patches that help because they target a specific area.

Are you on a muscle relaxer of some sort? This is also a good treatment to take it down a notch.

Again...keep trying to find a Dr. who listens, who is compassionate, and who wants to work with you to find the best comprehensive treatment plan to help lessen your pain level..

Good luck...

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 01:26 PM   #5
Junior Member
(female)
 
ammery's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 15
ammery HB User
Re: Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

Thanks CuteDog,
I agree toward taking a comprehensive approach.
Currently I am:
  • Two sessions into an acupuncture routine.
  • Doing posture exercises about once a week.
  • Doing yoga about once a week.
  • Doing cardio exercises about three times a week (I figured losing weight wouldn't hurt. I'm currently 30 lbs overweight.)
  • Seeing the Pain Management clinic who has tried the injections, and who will also make me a mouth splint to wear at night in case TMJ is part of the problem.
  • Have an appointment with a physical therapist, whom I plan to also ask for a TENS unit.
  • Practicing better posture at work.
  • Occasionally using an over-the-door traction unit at home.
It's pretty crazy the amount of time and energy I put into just one body part actually. I just wish it was working...

In terms of the lidocaine shots, you mentioned them not being a cure... I honestly wasn't expecting them to be a cure. But my doctor did say that I should be pain free for a least ONE WEEK, and in my case it was less than 24 hours.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 06:55 PM   #6
Senior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 229
CaliGirl HB UserCaliGirl HB UserCaliGirl HB UserCaliGirl HB UserCaliGirl HB User
Re: Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

Lidocaine only works for a few hours so I can't understand why they would use it alone. I am scheduled for trigger point injections next week at Johns Hopkins. While I'm sure they will numb me a bit with Lidocaine the therapeutic agent is cortisone. The Lidocaine alone would be pointless. Are you sure this is all you got? Secondly, I highly recommend the Butrans patch for relief of moderate to severe pain. It felt like it gave me a new lease on life. I would push for some pain control. Best wishes to you!

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 07:18 PM   #7
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 9,381
Blog Entries: 32
janewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB User
Re: Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

Hi, ammerybob, sorry things are so difficult for you.

I've had neck pain and issues since age 18, I'm now 31. Yes, it is difficult, it is unfair, you should be young and enjoying a body you can get away with abusing! But you get what you get. Cry about it if you need to, heaven knows I have, then figure out what you need to do to deal

I have to say, the upper-body trigger point injections weren't super helpful, other than the one I got right by C3. What was VERY helpful were the ones in my back, near my waist! I think it's because my upper body has dozens of tiny trps, and my lower body has just a few main ones.

I do exercise, especially yoga. When I feel particularly stiff and awful, I do a pilates warm-up routine. It's undemanding and it loosens my spine. I work on posture, and I have a very comfortable bed. My TENS unit helps when things are bad, as do menthol-based topical pain relievers.

Also, I get a massage every week. It's expensive, but I really believe it's what keeps me healthy enough to work. Now, you may have to "kiss a lot of frogs" before you find a massage therapist that you like, who makes things better and not worse. Mine is great, but there are areas I won't let her touch. Better to work the shoulders and around the shoulder blades than up on the front of the neck!

Last edited by Mod-S4; 11-26-2012 at 06:47 PM. Reason: Off topic portion removed.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 06:03 AM   #8
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 9,381
Blog Entries: 32
janewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB User
Re: Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

Again, the purpose of trigger point injections is to break the spasm. If the pain returns within a few hours, it didn't work.

Now, maybe it didn't work because they weren't quite done correctly! Hitting the actual trigger point well enough to release it is tricky.

When I get one that works, the injection feels WEIRD. Sometimes it's a few seconds of intense pain. Sometimes it feels very cold or hot. Sometimes I can feel the muscle JUMP as it releases. If it just felt like getting a normal shot, then it probably did nothing.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 07:54 AM   #9
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: East Coast, VA, USA
Posts: 556
Ilovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB User
Re: Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

Ammerybob,
The key is finding a Dr. who is willing to work with you to find that plan that can lower her level to an acceptable level of 5-6 to live her life....

As mentioned....unless there is a surgical fix or just a strain....many times chronic pain will not go away and it's finding the best combination of things that will help...

It seems there are quite a few of us here that have had chronic neck pain for a long time...So we can all empathize....I hope you keep searching and find a great Dr. who will find a plan that works for you..

Last edited by Mod-S4; 11-26-2012 at 06:47 PM. Reason: Off topic.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 09:17 AM   #10
Junior Member
(female)
 
ammery's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 15
ammery HB User
Re: Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

Okay, so what I am gathering from everyone's advice is that:

a) He probably didn't hit the trigger point directly, or else I would have experienced a release and longer pain relief. This is funny, because this doctor is a specialist, and he flat out BRAGGED on and on about how he knows his stuff when it comes to Trigger Point Injections... Seems I've been encountering a lot of doctors who like giving me false hope.
b) I should ask about cortisone if I do the injections again.
c) I should continue addressing this pain from all angles, including yoga, etc.
d) I should ask about lidoderm patches or butrans patches.
e) I should look into getting a TENS unit.
f) I should explore medications.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 01:16 PM   #11
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 9,381
Blog Entries: 32
janewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB User
Re: Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

Ilovemycutedog: Sorry, the server has completely messed up posting order on this thread. I might have misread what you said or said it to the wrong person.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 01:24 PM   #12
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: East Coast, VA, USA
Posts: 556
Ilovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB UserIlovemycutedog HB User
Re: Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

I agree with Jane in that the Trigger points can be hit or miss and if they aren't working than yes, I would think the cortisone injections might help...

I am curious....do you only have issues with your neck/upper back? Or do you have pain anywhere else?

And I don't know if I missed if you have tried or are on a muscle relaxer....This seems like an extremely obvious medicine to have you on to help with the overall pain...

Along with a prescription strength anti-inflammatory.

Just so you know...the Lidoderm patches are non narcotic but the Butrans patch is a narcotic...So they are on two ends of the spectrum if you talk to your Dr.

Unfortunately as we all know...there really isn't any type of "cure" for MPS...

It's trying to use injections, medications, massage, heat, ultrasound, stretching, as well as lifestyle changes such as exercise, keeping stress at bay/finding ways to relax like yoga which is wonderful as it combines stretching and relaxing As well as looking into taking out inflammatory foods in your diet...

All this can "help" but not go away

And one more question...what type of Dr. are you seeing? (again apologize if I missed this)..

Sending some online gentle hugs (( ))

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 11:37 AM   #13
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,460
Shoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB User
Re: Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

Hi Ammery, As others have said, most find some level of relief using a multi faceted aproach to managing pain. Rarely is just one method used even when it's high strength or dose pain meds, the problem with using pain meds alone is that you develop tolerance and you would require more and more over the years. Not to say that some use of pain meds wouldn't be an option but like the others, I've had chronic pain since my first failed back surgery in 93. Ive had trigger points by at least a dozen different docs and their are many different methods, some use anti inflamatories, some use lidocaine or longer lasting drugs like marcaine, some use dry needle and believe the action of the neeedle is what causes the release. Some of them helped me and some didn't, but like someone mentioned, TP's are more of a technique to manage flairs when your at your worst.

All my problems are low back but my wife's neck is a mess and has had decent success using a combination of medications, long acting morphine, Baclofen for spasticity and Cymbalta which is an antidepressant that can help with nerve pain, others use lyryca or an anti seizure med for pain and she has TP injections done as needed but she gets the most relief from botox, She also has a pump up neck traction device, a bit higher tech than the old hang from a door jam style. The thing is not all docs are willing to use opiates, not all docs are familiar or comfotable with the use of Botox, Not all docs and PT's will recomend the same traction unit. She also has occipital blocks done a couple times a year. It's the combination of meds and therapies that help and it usually takes a practice that does nothing but pain management and has multiple docs from different specialists that are better trained for specific therapies. One doc manages her meds, an anesthesiologist in the practice does her, ESI's , blocks and Botox and their is an DO that does manipulations like a chiro on her neck. She has some similar symptoms to what you describe, but that doesn't mean you would defintitely benefit from those therapies untill you try.

BTW Every Doc I have seen that did TP injections on me, and every PM doc Ive seen believed they had the answer to my pain, they all believe they were the best, knew the right way or had the right touch. Docs dont tend to do things with hesitation and tell you this may helpt but i have little experience or success. By telling you they are the best and implying long periods of relief from specific treatments may create a plecebo effect where you get relief because you expect it. Of course their all the best, arent you One of the best at what you do.

Dont let that discourage you, just keep a list of what works and what doesn't. Continue to use what does and keep looking for something to add until you find a level of discomfort you cn live with. You may need to see a dozen PM specialist that all have the answer. It took me 7 years, 3 failed fusions and 3 month long PM clinics following each surgery before I found something that helped decrease what I deal with but I'm still disabled by CP. It just comes down to finding out what works for you and combining those therapies that worked in the past with new ones someone else may offer. Botox does sound like it may be a viable option or at least worth trying. It pretty much prevents a muscle from going into spasm by paralyzing the muscle for 12 to 16 weeks.
Good Luck, Dave

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 03:28 PM   #14
Junior Member
(female)
 
ammery's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 15
ammery HB User
Re: Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

Dave,
I am so sorry you and your wife are going through all that.
I have experienced what you mentioned about different docs being comfortable with different things.. It seems some jump right to meds, and some jump right to physical therapy, etc. It's interesting.
I have specifically asked for botox and have been denied. They actually kind of looked at me sideways like I was a nut for even asking it. I'm not sure why it was so nutty... I know someone personally who's had great success with botox injections.

I went to a brand new physical therapist yesterday. She said she feels I have "hypermobility", mean my neck is TOO flexible, which results in stretched out, overly thin and weak ligaments. Because the ligaments can't do their job properly of hold my skeleton in place, the muscles are over compensating and tensing up. She says strengthing the muscles, so that their job is easier to do, will help me. Sounds overly simple almost. I hope it works.
I'm going to see the pain management doctor again in a few weeks. It will be awkward, but I'm going to have to be honest with him and tell him it just didn't work. I am going to tell him about the hypermobility diagnosis, and also mention all of your suggestions.
Thanks so much everyone!

 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 05:32 PM   #15
Newbie
(female)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 3
kairla HB User
Re: Trigger Point Injections - Lidocaine - Did not work for me

Re lidocaine trigger point injections- My suggestion is try it again. It didn't work the first time, minimally the second and then was a miracle the third time. I walked out of my doctor's office and was able to move my neck and retain the flexibility for over a month.
My doctor is the best of the best (I finally got a great one). I am very particular in who I see, and I chose her for her Eastern and Western hybrid approach. We had tried PT, low dose pain meds, muscle relaxers and acupuncture before this. These injections are so worth the minute amount of pain, save me time and gave me the best gift, which was to get on top of my pain.
(Myofascial Pain Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, disc herniation in back and bulging discs in neck)

 
Reply With Quote
The following user gives a hug of support to kairla:
Hemlock07 (10-08-2012)
Reply Reply

Tags
chronic pain, myofascial pain, neck pain, trigger point injections



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Join Our Newsletter

Stay healthy through tips curated by our health experts.

Whoops,

There was a problem adding your email Try again

Thank You

Your email has been added








TOP THANKED CONTRIBUTORS



gmak (38), BB07 (21), katlin09 (20), cspineguy (20), tortoisegirl (19), Shoreline (18), Moldova (13), LadyBassPlayer (12), jonnstar (11), nochange (9)

Site Wide Totals

teteri66 (1182), MSJayhawk (1015), Apollo123 (913), Titchou (862), janewhite1 (823), Gabriel (763), ladybud (760), midwest1 (671), sammy64 (668), BlueSkies14 (607)



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:43 PM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.comô
Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.comô All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!